100ah pack on the cheap

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100ah pack on the cheap

Lawrence Rhodes
I've checked out some Chinese battery suppliers and seems prices are around 100
dollars a cell.  A 144v pack will be 45 or so cells.  Should yield a 50 mile
usable range on the Ford Aspire.  What is the best supplier and battery for the
money?  Could a regular K&W work as the charger?  Trying to do this on the
cheap. What is the best bargain in BMS?  I've been into lead so long I need
advice on the best way to go on lithium.  The 144v system draws 500 to 700 amps
max.   Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

JerryBattery
It seems that CALB cell is the most popular one on the market, but can it
be discharged at 5-7C for 10-30 seconds?

Jerry


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Lawrence Rhodes
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> I've checked out some Chinese battery suppliers and seems prices are
> around 100
> dollars a cell.  A 144v pack will be 45 or so cells.  Should yield a 50
> mile
> usable range on the Ford Aspire.  What is the best supplier and battery
> for the
> money?  Could a regular K&W work as the charger?  Trying to do this on the
> cheap. What is the best bargain in BMS?  I've been into lead so long I need
> advice on the best way to go on lithium.  The 144v system draws 500 to 700
> amps
> max.   Lawrence Rhodes
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Cruisin
In reply to this post by Lawrence Rhodes
If you want to do it on the cheap, stick with ACID
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

JerryBattery
Hi Cruisin,

Are you using lead acid batteries for your EV ? Do you have any experience
that your battery can't climb a slope while it has plenty of electricity ?

Jerry


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Cruisin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you want to do it on the cheap, stick with ACID
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/100ah-pack-on-the-cheap-tp4663470p4663472.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Cor van de Water
Hi Jerry,

I am not Al, but I have plenty experience in hill climbing challenges.
My truck weighs about 4400 lbs with its 120V flooded golf cart batteries (20 of them +2 for the aux)
However, the controller limits the current to about 300A, probably because the motor has too low inductance
(11 inch GE motor) so the current has high spikes, triggering the current limit (should be 500A).
The result is a definitely underpowered truck that takes about a minute to reach max freeway speed.
You can imagine that when I get into the foothills that I need to maintain speed to reach uphill or
when starting from a stop, I can only *creep* up the steeper slopes.
Does not matter that the batteries are full, there simply is too little torque to make it up steeper inclines.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] on behalf of Jerry Yue
Sent: Sat 6/8/2013 6:40 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100ah pack on the cheap
 
Hi Cruisin,

Are you using lead acid batteries for your EV ? Do you have any experience
that your battery can't climb a slope while it has plenty of electricity ?

Jerry


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Cruisin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you want to do it on the cheap, stick with ACID
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/100ah-pack-on-the-cheap-tp4663470p4663472.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
>
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

JerryBattery
Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, I know that special design on the motor and the transmission can offer
more torque for hill climbing at low current draw.

In fact, my own idea is to attach a small powerful lithium batteries (at
low cost) to the original lead acid or CALB battery system to offer extra
power during hillclimbing and speed acceleration. Will this make any sense ?

Jerry


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Cor van de Water <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jerry,
>
> I am not Al, but I have plenty experience in hill climbing challenges.
> My truck weighs about 4400 lbs with its 120V flooded golf cart batteries
> (20 of them +2 for the aux)
> However, the controller limits the current to about 300A, probably because
> the motor has too low inductance
> (11 inch GE motor) so the current has high spikes, triggering the current
> limit (should be 500A).
> The result is a definitely underpowered truck that takes about a minute to
> reach max freeway speed.
> You can imagine that when I get into the foothills that I need to maintain
> speed to reach uphill or
> when starting from a stop, I can only *creep* up the steeper slopes.
> Does not matter that the batteries are full, there simply is too little
> torque to make it up steeper inclines.
>
> Hope this clarifies,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] on behalf of Jerry Yue
> Sent: Sat 6/8/2013 6:40 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100ah pack on the cheap
>
> Hi Cruisin,
>
> Are you using lead acid batteries for your EV ? Do you have any experience
> that your battery can't climb a slope while it has plenty of electricity ?
>
> Jerry
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Cruisin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > If you want to do it on the cheap, stick with ACID
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/100ah-pack-on-the-cheap-tp4663470p4663472.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by Lawrence Rhodes
Hi Lawrence,

My experience with Thundersky (now Winston I think) says that you won't get
500-700 amps out of them.  I consider 300A max and usually try not to pull
more than 200A.  You might get that much from CALB, but I think 300-500A is
more realistic.  I have heard that they make 3-5C ok, where the Thundersky
are 3C at best.

I have been very happy with my miniBMS and Elcon charger.  I wouldn't risk a
dumb charger with lithium cells.  With a good BMS you might get away with
it,  but I like knowing that the charger normally terminates charge
automatically and the BMS is a backup.  With a dumb charger, you are
depending on the BMS to terminate charging.

I get 50 mile range with 45 100Ah cells on tne Honda del Sol.  I think the
miniBMS is about $10-12 per cell plus about $60 for the main control.  I
don't know if it's the cheapest, but it does the job.  I have the version
with shunts.  I find they aren't enough to balance a pack that is out of
balance, but I find they can keep it in balance.  I use an RC charger to top
up cells to get the pack in balance.

Mike
www.evalbum.com/2778


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 7:17 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] 100ah pack on the cheap
>
> I've checked out some Chinese battery suppliers and seems prices are
> around 100 dollars a cell.  A 144v pack will be 45 or so cells.  Should
yield a 50
> mile usable range on the Ford Aspire.  What is the best supplier and
battery
> for the money?  Could a regular K&W work as the charger?  Trying to do
this
> on the cheap. What is the best bargain in BMS?  I've been into lead so
long I
> need advice on the best way to go on lithium.  The 144v system draws 500
to
> 700 amps
> max.   Lawrence Rhodes
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

brucedp5
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
The 1985 S-10 Blazer  I had with a 132V (22 x T145) PbSO4 wet cell pack,
tractor-ed up our mountainous roads to the 2000' summit in 2nd gear at
about 20 to 35mph (depending on how tight the curves were). The Blazer
had a 9" AdvancedDC motor and Auburn C600 controller. Battery amps shown
on my link-10 e-meter ran from 200 to 300+ DC depending on the grade
when climbing from Saratoga, CA to Skyline summit. Here's a map
http://goo.gl/maps/mHZD4

My Blazer weighed ~2tons. I had the lowest gear ration differential, and
a 4 speed manual transmission. When I would get adventuresome up in that
region, I would use 1st gear on the most severe parts of China Grade Rd.
(had portions that were quite steep). Climbing in 1st gear was no
problem. Here's a map
http://goo.gl/maps/hmyF3


{brucedp.150m.com}

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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by JerryBattery
Jerry,

If the battery is the limit for the power to the motor then it makes sense to add battery to increase that power.
If your controller (or your motor) is the limit for the max power you can deliver, then it does not help to add battery power.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] on behalf of Jerry Yue
Sent: Sat 6/8/2013 7:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100ah pack on the cheap
 
Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, I know that special design on the motor and the transmission can offer
more torque for hill climbing at low current draw.

In fact, my own idea is to attach a small powerful lithium batteries (at
low cost) to the original lead acid or CALB battery system to offer extra
power during hillclimbing and speed acceleration. Will this make any sense ?

Jerry


On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Cor van de Water <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jerry,
>
> I am not Al, but I have plenty experience in hill climbing challenges.
> My truck weighs about 4400 lbs with its 120V flooded golf cart batteries
> (20 of them +2 for the aux)
> However, the controller limits the current to about 300A, probably because
> the motor has too low inductance
> (11 inch GE motor) so the current has high spikes, triggering the current
> limit (should be 500A).
> The result is a definitely underpowered truck that takes about a minute to
> reach max freeway speed.
> You can imagine that when I get into the foothills that I need to maintain
> speed to reach uphill or
> when starting from a stop, I can only *creep* up the steeper slopes.
> Does not matter that the batteries are full, there simply is too little
> torque to make it up steeper inclines.
>
> Hope this clarifies,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] on behalf of Jerry Yue
> Sent: Sat 6/8/2013 6:40 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 100ah pack on the cheap
>
> Hi Cruisin,
>
> Are you using lead acid batteries for your EV ? Do you have any experience
> that your battery can't climb a slope while it has plenty of electricity ?
>
> Jerry
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Cruisin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > If you want to do it on the cheap, stick with ACID
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/100ah-pack-on-the-cheap-tp4663470p4663472.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Lawrence Rhodes
On 6/8/2013 8:17 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I've checked out some Chinese battery suppliers and seems prices are around 100
> dollars a cell.  A 144v pack will be 45 or so cells.  Should yield a 50 mile
> usable range on the Ford Aspire.  What is the best supplier and battery for the
> money?  Could a regular K&W work as the charger?  Trying to do this on the
> cheap. What is the best bargain in BMS?  I've been into lead so long I need
> advice on the best way to go on lithium.  The 144v system draws 500 to 700 amps
> max.   Lawrence Rhodes

It's really hard to get a "best buy" recommendation, because most people
only buy one pack, one time, from one supplier. They don't do much
testing, either; it's just put 'em in a drive!

Since you're talking Big Money for a lithium pack and all it's attracted
complexity, maybe it would be good to dip your toe in the water first.
Do you have a smaller EV you could convert first? A motorcycle or lawn
tractor or something?

Another thought is to replace just a few of your lead-acids with
lithiums. Maybe replace a 12v 100ah battery with 4 100ah lithiums?
Charge them separately, with a small charger/BMS system. Add some
instrumentation, so you can watch the current and voltage sag relative
to the lead-acids, and see if they are better or not.

If your first candidate turns out not to be that good, try some
different ones. You aren't out much money, and the old ones will still
be a good 12v battery to use in something else.

--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Lawrence Rhodes
In reply to this post by Lawrence Rhodes
One other thing I was thinking of is the sag with the 144vdc gel pack even when
freshly charged is down to 120vdc.  That's like having a 108vdc pack by the
meters.  Might one with the stiff lithium go lower voltage and still get
performance?  My car with a 300 pound lithium pack might be 2200 or less
pounds.  Also It might save the modified Curtis controller.  It really never
sees high voltage except when I'm just putting around at under 25 amps draw.  
Lawrence Rhodes...



----- Original Message ----

> From: Lawrence Rhodes <[hidden email]>
> To: Electric Vehicle  Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sat, June 8, 2013 6:17:08 PM
> Subject: 100ah pack on the cheap
>
> I've checked out some Chinese battery suppliers and seems prices are around 100
>
> dollars a cell.  A 144v pack will be 45 or so cells.  Should yield  a 50 mile
> usable range on the Ford Aspire.  What is the best supplier  and battery for
>the
>
> money?  Could a regular K&W work as the  charger?  Trying to do this on the
> cheap. What is the best bargain in  BMS?  I've been into lead so long I need
> advice on the best way to go  on lithium.  The 144v system draws 500 to 700
>amps
>
> max.   Lawrence  Rhodes
>
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

brucedp5
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
I would only use a K&W charger on a forgiving PbSO4 wet cell pack.
So if you go li-ion, you should also have a smart charger designed to
charge them. Else all the pennies you saved are fried/thrown-away by
using the wrong charger.

Mike mentioned using an Elcon which is designed to charge li-ion. To
save money, you could buy the lower priced PFC 2500 charger which offers
level-1 and 2.5kW level-2 charging. Later, if you had the money, you
could add a second one in parallel to get the most from public EVSE.


{brucedp.150m.com}


-
On 6/8/2013 8:17 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> ... Could a regular K&W work as the charger?  
> Trying to do this on the cheap. ... I've been
>into lead so long I need advice on the best
> way to go on lithium.
-

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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Sean Korb
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/8/2013 8:17 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
>> I've checked out some Chinese battery suppliers and seems prices are
>> around 100
>> dollars a cell.  A 144v pack will be 45 or so cells.  Should yield a 50
>> mile
>> usable range on the Ford Aspire.  What is the best supplier and battery
>> for the
>> money?  Could a regular K&W work as the charger?  Trying to do this on the
>> cheap. What is the best bargain in BMS?  I've been into lead so long I
>> need
>> advice on the best way to go on lithium.  The 144v system draws 500 to
>> 700 amps
>> max.   Lawrence Rhodes
>>
>
> It's really hard to get a "best buy" recommendation, because most people
> only buy one pack, one time, from one supplier. They don't do much testing,
> either; it's just put 'em in a drive!
>
> Since you're talking Big Money for a lithium pack and all it's attracted
> complexity, maybe it would be good to dip your toe in the water first. Do
> you have a smaller EV you could convert first? A motorcycle or lawn tractor
> or something?
>
> Another thought is to replace just a few of your lead-acids with lithiums.
> Maybe replace a 12v 100ah battery with 4 100ah lithiums? Charge them
> separately, with a small charger/BMS system. Add some instrumentation, so
> you can watch the current and voltage sag relative to the lead-acids, and
> see if they are better or not.
>
> If your first candidate turns out not to be that good, try some different
> ones. You aren't out much money, and the old ones will still be a good 12v
> battery to use in something else.
>
>
Does this violate the balanced battery pack doctrine?  It would be
interesting to see how that pack fared against the rest of the pack and it
wouldn't take much more effort to instrument them from inside the cab.
Just run a couple of $4.00 volt meters into the passenger compartment.

sean

--
Sean Korb [hidden email] http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by brucedp5
On 6/9/2013 2:17 PM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> I would only use a K&W charger on a forgiving PbSO4 wet cell pack.

There's nothing wrong with the K&W charger per se. It's crude, but it works.

The problem is that you can't use it *alone* to charge batteries that
are easily damaged by overcharging. That includes AGMs and gels, as well
as lithiums. You have to add a BMS of some kind to stop the charger from
overcharging.

--
The principal defect in a storage battery is its modesty. It does not
spark, creak, groan, nor slow down under overload. It does not rotate.
It works where it is, and will silently work up to the point of
destruction without making any audible or visible signs of distress.
  -- Electrical Review, 1902
--
Lee A. Hart, http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Willie2
In reply to this post by brucedp5
On Sun, Jun 09, 2013 at 12:17:18PM -0700, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> I would only use a K&W charger on a forgiving PbSO4 wet cell pack.
> So if you go li-ion, you should also have a smart charger designed to
> charge them. Else all the pennies you saved are fried/thrown-away by
> using the wrong charger.

It is my opinion that one does not need any "smart" charger to charge
lithium.  One needs only to assure that the charger gets turned off
whenever any single cell reaches an upper voltage threshold.  It is
nice for balancing, but not necessary, if the charger tapers off
current as the pack approaches the expect maximum voltage.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  29 days 21 hours 08 minutes
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

David Nelson-5
In reply to this post by Lawrence Rhodes
Lawrence,

For the current you are talking about, assuming 100Ah LiFePO4, you need to
go with at least the CALB CA series (the gray ones) of cells. For the same
conditions, the TS (Winston) cells sag more than the CALB SE (formerly
SkyEnergy Blue) cells, and those sage more than the CA series.

For some good video of a discharge test (on a CA cell) using a spanner
wrench to short the terminals check out both
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcuyfS7yybQ and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyYfFeWwd9I and I think you will decide
that the CA cells might do the job.

As for charging, if your K&W can guarantee that it won't charge over a
given voltage it will be fine. It really doesn't take a very sophisticated
charger to charge LiFePO4 cells. Many of us have found that if there are no
unbalanced loads on the pack and the set of cells are good that they just
don't drift with respect to each other. If you do install any sort of BMS
on part of the pack you will have problems so don't go with a partial BMS.
Either install one or don't but make sure you read up from a wide variety
of places on the pros and cons of installing an automatic BMS or you being
the BMS. What you go with will also be a factor in whether you top balance
your pack or bottom balance your pack. Each way has its pros and cons so
get educated on the options.

I know that some here don't like/agree with Jack Rickard of EVTV.me. Not
all scientists liked/agreed with Thomas Edison either. Jack at least posts
about and if possible videos his "failures" so all can learn from them. At
least read the blogs if you don't have the bandwidth or desire to watch his
long videos. Having followed his progress over the years I have learned
that it can take several blogs/episodes before you finally get all the
pieces supporting why he makes particular claims so don't read just one
post and write him off.

As for my rig I have a pack of TS cells made in November 2009. They are top
balanced because of the limitations of my Zivan charger. I want the charger
to follow the charging procedure of charging to 3.6vpc and stopping when
the current drops to 0.05C. The Zivan tapers the current to a few mA and
stops when the soak charge timer finally times out. As such, I charge my
pack to 3.455vpc right now and am planning on dropping that voltage a
little bit farther when I get a chance to more accurately test resting
voltage after a charge with no load on the pack. I think I still might be
overcharging my pack slightly. As for a BMS, I took that off 23 months ago
and the pack appears to still be in balance as measured right at the end of
charge when the charger is putting out less than 200mA into a 200Ah pack.

HTH,



On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Lawrence Rhodes
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> I've checked out some Chinese battery suppliers and seems prices are
> around 100
> dollars a cell.  A 144v pack will be 45 or so cells.  Should yield a 50
> mile
> usable range on the Ford Aspire.  What is the best supplier and battery
> for the
> money?  Could a regular K&W work as the charger?  Trying to do this on the
> cheap. What is the best bargain in BMS?  I've been into lead so long I need
> advice on the best way to go on lithium.  The 144v system draws 500 to 700
> amps
> max.   Lawrence Rhodes
> _______________________________________________
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

R Willis
In reply to this post by Willie2
guess you have never seen a battery burn ?
lithium fires are not nice




>It is my opinion that one does not need any "smart" charger to charge
>lithium.  One needs only to assure that the charger gets turned off
>whenever any single cell reaches an upper voltage threshold.  It is
>nice for balancing, but not necessary, if the charger tapers off
>current as the pack approaches the expect maximum voltage.
>
>--
>Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
>http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
>Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  29 days 21 hours 08 minutes
>_______________________________________________
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Richard willis

519-896-3354  office
[hidden email]

http://www.evalbum.com/4612

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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Cruisin
More important role the BMS plays is not only preventing overcharge, which is what everybody is talking about here, but over discharge. That is the real killer and you may never know it is happening when not using a BMS. jack EVTVME is caught up on being in front of the camera more that using common sense. Does any production EV being sold today, hit the market without a elaborate BMS? NO.
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Sean Korb
I really learned a lot from Jack's videos, but essentially: Jack is acting
as the BMS.  He has instrumentation and dligence on checking his pack at
every opportunity and a small issue never turns into a big issue because
Jack knows what is going on and attends to it immediately.  He talks about
those small issues occasionally and they have never been difficult to solve.

Production cars are for.. people who are not Jack.  I can't tell you how
many times I've been a passenger in an ICE car and see the oil light
flicker or some other major problem that neds immediate attention.  The
driver is invariably unaware or unconcerned.

So the BMS is supposed to allow the driver to stop worrying and just drive
the car.  In general this works pretty well.

I am not Jack either so I will want some sort of intelligent medium
priced BMS on my car.  I want to devote my time and energy to other
projects.

cheers,
sean

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Cruisin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> More important role the BMS plays is not only preventing overcharge, which
> is
> what everybody is talking about here, but over discharge. That is the real
> killer and you may never know it is happening when not using a BMS. jack
> EVTVME is caught up on being in front of the camera more that using common
> sense. Does any production EV being sold today, hit the market without a
> elaborate BMS? NO.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/100ah-pack-on-the-cheap-tp4663470p4663504.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>  _______________________________________________
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


--
Sean Korb [hidden email] http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: 100ah pack on the cheap

Willie2
In reply to this post by R Willis
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:12:53AM -0400, R Willis wrote:
> guess you have never seen a battery burn ?
> lithium fires are not nice

We're always eager to hear of experiences with lithium fires.

I have no experience with lithium fires and I have heard of none that
occurred unless overcharging was suspected.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  30 days 16 hours 19 minutes
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