110 to 220 converter or new charger

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
65 messages Options
1234
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

110 to 220 converter or new charger

Soren
I am looking at getting one of these: 110-220

http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.html

for rare times I am able to opportunity charge.  I have a 220 Zivan NG-3 and I think it was John recommended this solution.  I asked Zivan if this would work and they said....

"but if the charger drew 20A at 240vac  then your transformer will be trying to draw nearly 40A from the 115vac circuit"

If that is true then I would trip everyone's breakers.  So if that is so I guess to get 110 opportunity charging I'll need a whole extra charger?

Any recommendations on a cheap 110 back up charger for 144V 6V floodies (GC-2) or a way to get the converter to work?


Thanks

Soren
----- Original Message -----
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Peter VanDerWal
>
> "but if the charger drew 20A at 240vac  then your transformer will be
> trying
> to draw nearly 40A from the 115vac circuit"
>
> If that is true then I would trip everyone's breakers.  So if that is so I
> guess to get 110 opportunity charging I'll need a whole extra charger?

Unless you can turn down the current on the Zivan..

> Any recommendations on a cheap 110 back up charger for 144V 6V floodies
> (GC-2) or a way to get the converter to work?

144V is perfect for a Bad Boy charger.  Doesn't get any cheaper than that.

FWIW: a Bad Boy is just a bridge rectifier and enough resistors (100'
extension cords) to limit the current to an acceptable level.


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

David Nelson-5
In reply to this post by Soren
Would Zivan wire in a "low amperage" toggle switch into your charger?
I know Tim K has a mod to his charger referenced here:
http://914ev.blogspot.com/2007/02/whew-it-runs-again-zivan-mods-are-back.html

David

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 9:44 AM, glasers <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I am looking at getting one of these: 110-220
>
> http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.html
>
> for rare times I am able to opportunity charge.  I have a 220 Zivan NG-3 and
> I think it was John recommended this solution.  I asked Zivan if this would
> work and they said....
>
> "but if the charger drew 20A at 240vac  then your transformer will be trying
> to draw nearly 40A from the 115vac circuit"
>
> If that is true then I would trip everyone's breakers.  So if that is so I
> guess to get 110 opportunity charging I'll need a whole extra charger?
>
> Any recommendations on a cheap 110 back up charger for 144V 6V floodies
> (GC-2) or a way to get the converter to work?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Soren
> ----- Original Message -----
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/110-to-220-converter-or-new-charger-tp18533322p18533322.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>



--
David D. Nelson

http://evalbum.com/1328


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

lyn williams
In reply to this post by Peter VanDerWal
Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the coiled
extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop your bridge rectifier.
The the extension cords become either your fuse....or your ignitor....whichever occurs
first.

> 144V is perfect for a Bad Boy charger.  Doesn't get any cheaper than that.
>
> FWIW: a Bad Boy is just a bridge rectifier and enough resistors (100'
> extension cords) to limit the current to an acceptable level.

--
lyn williams <[hidden email]>


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Lee Hart
lyn williams wrote:
> Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the
> coiled extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop
> your bridge rectifier. The the extension cords become either your
> fuse....or your ignitor....whichever occurs first.

There is some inductance, but since the hot and neutral wires are paired
there is an equal an opposite current flowing in them. The inductive
field mostly cancels, so there is little change in inductance whether it
is coiled up or laid out straight.

But... a bad-boy charger draws all its current at the peak of the AC
line cycle. The average may be 15 amps (so your breaker doesn't trip),
but the peak can be over 100 amps! This causes cords, plugs, and other
parts to get hot! Coiling up the cord is a good way to concentrate all
the heat in one spot. Bob Rice calls them "stench cords" for good reason
-- they can melt, short, and even start a fire!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Neon John
In reply to this post by Soren
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:44:42 -0700 (PDT), glasers
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>I am looking at getting one of these: 110-220
>
>http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.html
>
>for rare times I am able to opportunity charge.  I have a 220 Zivan NG-3 and
>I think it was John recommended this solution.  I asked Zivan if this would
>work and they said....
>
>"but if the charger drew 20A at 240vac  then your transformer will be trying
>to draw nearly 40A from the 115vac circuit"

True.

>
>If that is true then I would trip everyone's breakers.  So if that is so I
>guess to get 110 opportunity charging I'll need a whole extra charger?

Nah, just add a little switchable resistance to the charging circuit, just
enough to cut the charging current in about half.  On 240, charge normally. On
120, flip the switch to insert the resistance.  A battery disconnect switch
should work fine.   Just arrange it to short the resistor.

What pack voltage and charging current are you using?  We can figure out a
resistance from that.

OR

Does the Zivan have an adjustable current limit?  Maybe an internal pot?  If
it does, arrange for two pots and a switch.  One pot is set for normal 240
operation and the other is set to half current for 120.

John

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill.


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

TiM M-3
In reply to this post by Soren
My new job was going to put in a 220 outlet for me to fast charge. The estimate from the electrician can out to a little over $1,100. Since we're going to be moving within a year they didn't want to spend the $$$. I bought one of these:

http://refreshyourhome.com/new-steamer-windows/220-V-CONVERTER.html

This assumes you can find two outlets, one from each phase. It seems to work fine. You simply plug in one line and then start plugging the second line in until you get an output light. If you don't have two sperate phases you don't get any output. I can easily push 22 amps into my pack with my PFC-20. I haven't tried to push it any harder than that, I don't want to start popping breakers at work. I'm happy pulling ~11 amps through each leg.

TiM


     


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

joe-22
In reply to this post by lyn williams
This has been done many times, Lyn - with no ill effects! Some of the racers
(no longer on this list, alas!) do this on a regular basis, and have done it
for years.

I'm not saying that there isn't a risk, but apparently not much of one, if
done correctly.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [hidden email]


----- Original Message -----
From: "lyn williams" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger


> Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the
> coiled
> extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop your bridge
> rectifier.
> The the extension cords become either your fuse....or your
> ignitor....whichever occurs
> first.
>
>> 144V is perfect for a Bad Boy charger.  Doesn't get any cheaper than
>> that.
>>
>> FWIW: a Bad Boy is just a bridge rectifier and enough resistors (100'
>> extension cords) to limit the current to an acceptable level.
>
> --
> lyn williams <[hidden email]>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008
> 6:35 PM
>
>
>


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

shred
In reply to this post by Soren
I bought a RUSSCO Electric Vehicle SC 18-120/72-156 Charger and have had good luck.
list price is $645
I like the fact I can easily adjust both the voltage & current.
I bought the unit with auto shut-off.
shred
http://www.russcoev.com

I am looking at getting one of these: 110-220

http://www.dvdoverseas.com/store/index.html?loadfile=catalog6_0.html

for rare times I am able to opportunity charge.  I have a 220 Zivan NG-3 and I think it was John recommended this solution.  I asked Zivan if this would work and they said....

"but if the charger drew 20A at 240vac  then your transformer will be trying to draw nearly 40A from the 115vac circuit"

If that is true then I would trip everyone's breakers.  So if that is so I guess to get 110 opportunity charging I'll need a whole extra charger?

Any recommendations on a cheap 110 back up charger for 144V 6V floodies (GC-2) or a way to get the converter to work?


Thanks

Soren
----- Original Message -----

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Neon John
In reply to this post by TiM M-3
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:17:54 -0700 (PDT), TiM M <[hidden email]> wrote:

>My new job was going to put in a 220 outlet for me to fast charge. The estimate from the electrician can out to a little over $1,100. Since we're going to be moving within a year they didn't want to spend the $$$. I bought one of these:
>
>http://refreshyourhome.com/new-steamer-windows/220-V-CONVERTER.html

Geez, what a price.  Here's the same thing for half the price and with the
kind of 240 volt outlet we want.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/50-amp-rv-box-adapter/25774

Camping world is one of the higher priced vendors.

>
>This assumes you can find two outlets, one from each phase. It seems to work fine. You simply plug in one line and then start plugging the second line in until you get an output light. If you don't have two sperate phases you don't get any output. I can easily push 22 amps into my pack with my PFC-20. I haven't tried to push it any harder than that, I don't want to start popping breakers at work. I'm happy pulling ~11 amps through each leg.

There is one major problem with this thing.  It absolutely will not work on
GFI outlets.

There is literally nothing inside the box.  This is something that one can
throw together from Home Depot parts for probably $50 or less.  Here's how it
works.

Two 120 volt cords coming in, call them A and B and for EV purposes, assume
that the 240 volt outlet is our favorite 50 amp range outlet.

The hot (black) wire of cord A connects to one hot pole of the range outlet.
The hot (black) wire of cord B connects to the other hot pole.  Both neutrals
(white wires) are connected to the outlet's neutral pole.  The two ground
(green) wires are connected to the outlet's ground pole.  That's all there is
to it.  Add a 240 volt pilot light if you want indication of 240 volts.  With
a range outlet, technically you don't even need the box, as both cords will
fit through the hole in the range outlet.

The one that Camping World is selling has two 30 amp 120 volt RV plugs for a
good reason.  That's the only way to have an outdoor 120 volt connection that
meets code but doesn't have a GFI.  They used to sell the box with standard
convenience plugs but that became useless since the non-GFI outdoor outlet is
getting to be a rare bird.

This type of adapter is great - I carry one in my catering truck - but the
chances of being able to use it for opportunity charging are rare unless one
can gain access to indoor, non-GFI outlets.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

TiM M-3
It's not really the same thing. It doesn't check to see if each line is on a separate phase, they suggest you do that before use. If you trip one breaker you lose one phase, but not the other. This unit has relays inside that only pull in when plugged into two separate phases. You can hear the relays pulling in, one when the first plug is connected. If you connect the second plug to an outlet on the same phase, nothing else happens. When you plug it into the other phase the second relay pulls in and you get 220 on the out put. I haven't opened it to see how it's wired internally but I did try plugging both chords into the same phase to see what happened.
     I'm not sure what the PFC would do if it lost one of the hot inputs. I know you can go 110 and neutral or 110 & 110 to get 220. I'm not sure if it would like 110 and an open, I don't intend to find out.


TiM



--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Neon John <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Neon John <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger
> To: [hidden email], "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 8:24 PM
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:17:54 -0700 (PDT), TiM M
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >My new job was going to put in a 220 outlet for me to
> fast charge. The estimate from the electrician can out to a
> little over $1,100. Since we're going to be moving
> within a year they didn't want to spend the $$$. I
> bought one of these:
> >
> >http://refreshyourhome.com/new-steamer-windows/220-V-CONVERTER.html
>
> Geez, what a price.  Here's the same thing for half the
> price and with the
> kind of 240 volt outlet we want.
>
> http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/50-amp-rv-box-adapter/25774
>
> Camping world is one of the higher priced vendors.
>
> >
> >This assumes you can find two outlets, one from each
> phase. It seems to work fine. You simply plug in one line
> and then start plugging the second line in until you get an
> output light. If you don't have two sperate phases you
> don't get any output. I can easily push 22 amps into my
> pack with my PFC-20. I haven't tried to push it any
> harder than that, I don't want to start popping
> breakers at work. I'm happy pulling ~11 amps through
> each leg.
>
> There is one major problem with this thing.  It absolutely
> will not work on
> GFI outlets.
>
> There is literally nothing inside the box.  This is
> something that one can
> throw together from Home Depot parts for probably $50 or
> less.  Here's how it
> works.
>
> Two 120 volt cords coming in, call them A and B and for EV
> purposes, assume
> that the 240 volt outlet is our favorite 50 amp range
> outlet.
>
> The hot (black) wire of cord A connects to one hot pole of
> the range outlet.
> The hot (black) wire of cord B connects to the other hot
> pole.  Both neutrals
> (white wires) are connected to the outlet's neutral
> pole.  The two ground
> (green) wires are connected to the outlet's ground
> pole.  That's all there is
> to it.  Add a 240 volt pilot light if you want indication
> of 240 volts.  With
> a range outlet, technically you don't even need the
> box, as both cords will
> fit through the hole in the range outlet.
>
> The one that Camping World is selling has two 30 amp 120
> volt RV plugs for a
> good reason.  That's the only way to have an outdoor
> 120 volt connection that
> meets code but doesn't have a GFI.  They used to sell
> the box with standard
> convenience plugs but that became useless since the non-GFI
> outdoor outlet is
> getting to be a rare bird.
>
> This type of adapter is great - I carry one in my catering
> truck - but the
> chances of being able to use it for opportunity charging
> are rare unless one
> can gain access to indoor, non-GFI outlets.
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the
> net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?


     


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Steve Condie
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
I'm prepared to be corrected, but in my experience an unmodified bad boy is unlikely to generate a dangerous amount of current into a 144V pack.  The rectified peak voltage of a 120VAC line is only around 165 volts, which is basically float charge level voltage for a 144 VDC pack.  A depleted pack will pull some amps, but really not that much.  I think a lot of the bad reputation bad boy chargers got was from using them to charge 120VDC (and lower) packs back in the day, which required the resistance from lengthy extension cords to cut the voltage and current to a point where the circuit breakers wouldn't trip.  Of course, the cords got hot, and the current didn't drop off as full charge was approached, so it was easy to cook the batteries if nobody was watching.  At 144 VDC you don't need extension cords - the voltage differential between the rectified line current and the batteries is small enough that the internal resistance of the batteries and wiring between the rectifier and the pack should be enough to keep the current in a manageable range. I think a bad boy makes a good opportunity charger for a 144 VDC pack.  I'd wire in a GFCI just for safety, and add an ammeter just to be able to see what's happening, but not much else is needed or an opportunity charger.  It won't give you a maximized charge profile, but it would stuff some electrons into your pack, tapering to a float charge as the batts fill up.  


Lee Hart wrote
lyn williams wrote:
> Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the
> coiled extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop
> your bridge rectifier. The the extension cords become either your
> fuse....or your ignitor....whichever occurs first.

There is some inductance, but since the hot and neutral wires are paired
there is an equal an opposite current flowing in them. The inductive
field mostly cancels, so there is little change in inductance whether it
is coiled up or laid out straight.

But... a bad-boy charger draws all its current at the peak of the AC
line cycle. The average may be 15 amps (so your breaker doesn't trip),
but the peak can be over 100 amps! This causes cords, plugs, and other
parts to get hot! Coiling up the cord is a good way to concentrate all
the heat in one spot. Bob Rice calls them "stench cords" for good reason
-- they can melt, short, and even start a fire!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Charging off 110 volts WAS 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Bob Rice-2
  Hi Steve an' EVerybody;

   In playing with Stench cords etc and car voltage I found that a 126 Volt
Rabbit worked well charging through  full bridge rectifier, would START at
about 25 amps and taper down to 2-5 when fully charged.Would just plugitin
and sorta forgetabout it. I DO remember my '65 Corvair conversion in FLA it
was 120 volt, too, and just plugging in in in Sebring, Fla, and forgetting
about it, and thinking ALL I needed was a tiny potted full wave bridge
rectifier. Done! No charger needed. The local voltage I think was only about
110? MUST have been or I woulda smoked alota stench cords?I wired up a
separate outlet and special 30 amp breaker for my setup, though, as it
STARTED about 30 amps.

   Just a few thoughts

    Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Condie" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 110 to 220 converter or new charger


>
> I'm prepared to be corrected, but in my experience an unmodified bad boy
> is
> unlikely to generate a dangerous amount of current into a 144V pack.  The
> rectified peak voltage of a 120VAC line is only around 165 volts, which is
> basically float charge level voltage for a 144 VDC pack.  A depleted pack
> will pull some amps, but really not that much.  I think a lot of the bad
> reputation bad boy chargers got was from using them to charge 120VDC (and
> lower) packs back in the day, which required the resistance from lengthy
> extension cords to cut the voltage and current to a point where the
> circuit
> breakers wouldn't trip.  Of course, the cords got hot, and the current
> didn't drop off as full charge was approached, so it was easy to cook the
> batteries if nobody was watching.  At 144 VDC you don't need extension
> cords
> - the voltage differential between the rectified line current and the
> batteries is small enough that the internal resistance of the batteries
> and
> wiring between the rectifier and the pack should be enough to keep the
> current in a manageable range. I think a bad boy makes a good opportunity
> charger for a 144 VDC pack.  I'd wire in a GFCI just for safety, and add
> an
> ammeter just to be able to see what's happening, but not much else is
> needed
> or an opportunity charger.  It won't give you a maximized charge profile,
> but it would stuff some electrons into your pack, tapering to a float
> charge
> as the batts fill up.
>
>
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>>
>> lyn williams wrote:
>>> Thats an extremely hazardous game....the inductance you get from the
>>> coiled extension cords can give you an inductive ring that can pop
>>> your bridge rectifier. The the extension cords become either your
>>> fuse....or your ignitor....whichever occurs first.
>>
>> There is some inductance, but since the hot and neutral wires are paired
>> there is an equal an opposite current flowing in them. The inductive
>> field mostly cancels, so there is little change in inductance whether it
>> is coiled up or laid out straight.
>>
>> But... a bad-boy charger draws all its current at the peak of the AC
>> line cycle. The average may be 15 amps (so your breaker doesn't trip),
>> but the peak can be over 100 amps! This causes cords, plugs, and other
>> parts to get hot! Coiling up the cord is a good way to concentrate all
>> the heat in one spot. Bob Rice calls them "stench cords" for good reason
>> -- they can melt, short, and even start a fire!
>> --
>> Ring the bells that still can ring
>> Forget the perfect offering
>> There is a crack in everything
>> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/110-to-220-converter-or-new-charger-tp18533322p18541655.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Steve Condie
Steve Condie wrote:
> I'm prepared to be corrected, but in my experience an unmodified bad
> boy is unlikely to generate a dangerous amount of current into a 144V
> pack...

I concur. A 144v pack is really too high for a "bad boy" charger to
charge effectively. Unless the pack is *very* deeply discharged, the
initial charging current won't be all that high. The end-of-charge
voltage will also be too low to fully recharge unless you can leave it
connected for several days.

> I think a lot of the bad reputation bad boy chargers got was from
> using them to charge 120VDC (and lower) packs back in the day, which
> required the resistance from lengthy extension cords to cut the
> voltage and current to a point where the circuit breakers wouldn't
> trip.  Of course, the cords got hot, and the current didn't drop off
> as full charge was approached, so it was easy to cook the batteries
> if nobody was watching.

All very true!

To me, there really is very little reason to use bad-boy chargers,
except as a temporary or emergency measure. It is a false economy to
ruin $1000 worth of batteries with a $10 charger. With even a little
effort, you can find an old transformer to put in series to buck/boost
the voltage, or just as an inductor to limit the current to safe levels.
Add a timer so it won't cook your batteries, and a GFCI so you won't
electocute anyone, and you have a halfway reasonable charger to use
until you can afford something better.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Steve Condie
That's all true.  A "dim boy", with a boost transformer adjustable with a garden variety light dimmer, a timer,  GFCI,  circuit breaker, ammeter and voltmeter is easy to build and costs less than $100 in readily available parts.  Plus it has the advantage of letting you see what happens with your pack at various voltages.   It will still be limited to about 8 amps from a standard outlet due to the lousy power factor, but 8 amps is better than nothing.

Lee Hart wrote
Steve Condie wrote
> I'm prepared to be corrected, but in my experience an unmodified bad
> boy is unlikely to generate a dangerous amount of current into a 144V
> pack...

I concur. A 144v pack is really too high for a "bad boy" charger to
charge effectively. Unless the pack is *very* deeply discharged, the
initial charging current won't be all that high. The end-of-charge
voltage will also be too low to fully recharge unless you can leave it
connected for several days.

> I think a lot of the bad reputation bad boy chargers got was from
> using them to charge 120VDC (and lower) packs back in the day, which
> required the resistance from lengthy extension cords to cut the
> voltage and current to a point where the circuit breakers wouldn't
> trip.  Of course, the cords got hot, and the current didn't drop off
> as full charge was approached, so it was easy to cook the batteries
> if nobody was watching.

All very true!

To me, there really is very little reason to use bad-boy chargers,
except as a temporary or emergency measure. It is a false economy to
ruin $1000 worth of batteries with a $10 charger. With even a little
effort, you can find an old transformer to put in series to buck/boost
the voltage, or just as an inductor to limit the current to safe levels.
Add a timer so it won't cook your batteries, and a GFCI so you won't
electocute anyone, and you have a halfway reasonable charger to use
until you can afford something better.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 110 to 220 converter or new charger

Lee Hart
Steve Condie wrote:
> A "dim boy", with a boost transformer adjustable with a garden
> variety light dimmer, a timer, GFCI, circuit breaker, ammeter and
> voltmeter is easy to build and costs less than $100 in readily
> available parts. Plus it has the advantage of letting you see what
> happens with your pack at various voltages. It will still be limited
> to about 8 amps from a standard outlet due to the lousy power factor,
> but 8 amps is better than nothing.

"Dim boy" -- that's a good name for it!

Minor improvement; put an AC-rated capacitor in series with the light
dimmer and 12v battery charger transformer. This block DC, so cheap
dimmers won't overheat the transformer. A second capacitor, straight
across the AC powerline, will also improve the power factor. These two
modifications will increase the charging current you can get.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

SepEx ??

EVstuff
In reply to this post by Soren
Never heard of a SepEx Motor before.
How does this compare to a shunt wound motor with Interpoles & compensation.
I have picked up that they are reversable which should rule out
compensation.
Reversing interpoles can be done........but I Suspect it's messy.
Just a brand name for somebody's shunt wound?
Tom Meyers


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: SepEx ??

Peter VanDerWal
> Never heard of a SepEx Motor before.
> How does this compare to a shunt wound motor

Shunt and SepEx are very similar.  You can often use one for the other.

Technically a Shunt wound motor has the field wire in parallel with the
armature.  A SepEx motor has the field (Sep)arately (Ex)cited.

If you have a shunt motor and it's field voltage is controlled separately
to the armature voltage, then it's a SepEx motor.

Interpoles are an add on feature, either motor could have them.  Actually
reversing the field on interpoles is easy, that's one of the reasons they
use them.


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: SepEx ??

David Nelson-5
In reply to this post by EVstuff
Tom,

I have a Separately Excited Motor (SEM or SepEx) in my Gizmo EV. There
are 4 wires running to the motor. One pair is for the armature and the
other pair is for the field. My controller is basically two
controllers in one. One controls the field and the other controls the
armature. My controller is set to vary the current to the field from
5A to 50A and the armature from 0A to 400A. As the rpm increase the
field current decreases from 50A down to 5A at the max rpm. In my
particular case my 6.7" motor at 48V maxes out at about 4000rpm. This
is with no load and matches what I see when I lift the drive wheel off
the ground and give it full throttle. On the road it maxes out at
about 2800rpm. I don't have to worry about over reving my motor. If I
had a series wound motor it would rev to the point of failure.

I believe that the number of windings and size of the wire on the
field in a SepEx is different than on a series wound but someone more
knowledgeable than me would have to chime in on that.

I just have a switch for reverse. I believe that the field current is
reversed. Also, I have regen. Right now I'm having a new throttle
control unit built which will allow me to have variable regen. So far,
I have had a fixed amount of regen when I hit the brakes. For variable
regen the motor is switched into reverse. When speed is below a
certain point regen will have to be shut off otherwise I'd start going
backwards.

HTH,

--
David D. Nelson

http://evalbum.com/1328


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: SepEx ??

Neon John
In reply to this post by Peter VanDerWal
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:14:52 -0000 (UTC), "Peter VanDerWal"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Never heard of a SepEx Motor before.
>> How does this compare to a shunt wound motor
>
>Shunt and SepEx are very similar.  You can often use one for the other.
>
>Technically a Shunt wound motor has the field wire in parallel with the
>armature.  A SepEx motor has the field (Sep)arately (Ex)cited.

Actually, shunt and SEPEX means exactly the same thing.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
WARNING: Do not use this hair dryer in the shower!


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

1234