$52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

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$52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

brucedp
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'Rules could be trumped'

http://www.afr.com/technology/quiet-cars-rules-to-prevent-injuries-will-cost-makers-52-million-a-year-20161114-gspaae
'Quiet cars' rules to prevent injuries will cost makers $52 million a year
Nov 15 2016  David Shepardson  Reuters

[image   / RICHARD VOGEL
http://www.afr.com/content/dam/images/g/s/p/a/r/i/image.related.afrArticleLead.620x350.gspaae.png/1479161046829.jpg
Car makers like Tesla will need to add a costly external waterproof speaker to their models
]

The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require "quiet cars" like electric vehicles and hybrids to emit alert sounds at speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km/h) to help prevent injuries among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.

The rules, which were required by Congress, will require car makers like Tesla, Nissan and Toyota to add alert sounds to all vehicles by September 2019.

The US Transportation Department said it expects the rules would prevent 2400 injuries a year in 2020 and would require the addition of alert sounds to about 530,000 2020 model vehicles.

The US National Highway Transportation Department said the rules will cost the car industry about $US39 million ($51.67 million) a year because car makers will need to add an external waterproof speaker to comply. But the benefits of the reduced injuries are estimated at $US250 million to $US320 million a year.

NHTSA estimates the odds of a hybrid vehicle being involved in a pedestrian crash are 19 per cent higher compared with a traditional gas-powered vehicle. About 125,000 pedestrians and cyclists are injured annually. The rules will also help the blind and visually impaired.

"This is a common-sense tool to help pedestrians-especially folks who are blind or have low vision-make their way safely," said NHTSA Administrator Dr Mark Rosekind in a statement.

The new rules apply to hybrid and electric cars, SUVs, trucks and buses that are up to 10,000 pounds and are aimed at preventing crashes at intersections or when electric vehicles are backing up.

NHTSA originally proposed extending the audio sound requirements to all vehicles on the road including motorcycles and larger trucks and buses. At higher speeds, the sound alert is not required because other factors like tyre and wind noise provide adequate warning to pedestrians, NHTSA said.

Advocates for the blind have pushed for the rules and praised the announcement.

Car makers previously raised concerns about the alerts, saying they are too loud and too complicated. They also want them required only at lower speeds.

Under a 2010 law passed by Congress, NHTSA was supposed to complete the regulations by January 2014, but the rules were subjected to a lengthy White House review.


The Trump administration could opt to review the rules once it takes office.
[© 2016 Fairfax Media]



https://electrek.co/2016/11/14/all-electric-cars-emit-sound-pedestrian/
All electric cars will need to emit a sound at up to 19 mph to protect pedestrians starting in 2019
2016/11/14  A ruling on this issue has been in the works since 2013, when the NHTSA estimated that the odds of an electric or hybrid vehicle being involved in a crash with a ...
...
http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/12/13602356/electric-car-engine-noise-porsche-mission-e
Can electric sports cars be sporty without any engine noise?
Nov 12, 2016  Electric cars are the future. Thanks to emissions restrictions and fuel efficiency requirements, plus the ease of using renewable energy to power an electric car ...
...
http://www.dailypress.com/sc-hybrid-electric-noise-autotips-1117-20161114-story.html
White noise: Hybrid, electric cars mandated to make sound at low speeds
20161114  The rule requires hybrid and electric vehicles to make noise when traveling in reverse or forward at speeds up to about 19 mph. The sound alert isn't required at ...
...
[dated]
http://www.dailypress.com/sc-fuel-economy-cafe-midterm-autocover-1013-20161010-story.html
Automakers lobby to ease MPG standards despite improved fuel economy
20161010



For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will not
oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet enough
and pleasant?

I imagine with horror a city full of cars emitting 1khz square wave
beeps, like so many commercial trucks and construction equipment. I can
barely tolerate hearing those. Add to that and I will go crazy. I'm sure
I'm not alone.

Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious.
But still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise
from our current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc:
Sent: 15-Nov-16 4:27:39 AM
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161115


The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will
require "quiet cars" like electric vehicles and hybrids to emit alert
sounds at speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km/h) to help prevent
injuries among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.

The rules, which were required by Congress, will require car makers like
Tesla, Nissan and Toyota to add alert sounds to all vehicles by
September 2019.

>
>
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Acentra-trim-based-Leaf-Black-Edition-gt-Limited-eu-availability-Mar-Aug-2017-td4684475.html
>EVLN: Acentra trim based Leaf Black Edition> Limited.eu availability
>Mar-Aug
>2017
>Nissan Leaf Black Edition promises sleeker all-electric motoring
>  ... stylish, premium design ... 1st 1000 receive a free in-vehicle
>wi-fi
>hotspot ...  has its work cut out competing with cheaper mainstream
>cars ...
>
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-21-5k-Leaf-Taxi-ie-gt-Floating-on-a-marshmallow-while-saving-the-planet-td4684474.html
>EVLN: €21.5k Leaf Taxi.ie> Floating on a marshmallow while ‘saving the
>planet’
>Taxi driver happy to be 'saving planet' with his electric car
>Dublin taxi driver, Peter Hanley became one of the first taxi drivers
>in
>Ireland to work in an electric car when he bought his new Nissan Leaf
>just
>over a year ago ...
>
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-ALA-sez-Drive-Electric-and-protect-everyone-s-lung-health-td4684469.html
>EVLN: ALA sez Drive Electric and protect everyone's lung health
>What’s the best way to keep your lungs healthy? Drive an electric car
>You don’t hear much about keeping your lungs …
>
>+
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tesla-s-gallery-in-Aspen-part-of-big-push-in-ski-country-of-the-West-td4684468.html
>Tesla’s ‘gallery’ in Aspen part of big push in ski country of the West
>Tesla beats electric path to ski towns
>Sales of electric vehicles in the United States flattened in 2015 after
>a
>couple of double-digit growth years. Some wondered if low gas prices
>had
>dented the ...
>
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-2019-09-td4684467.html
>$52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
>'Quiet cars' rules to prevent injuries will cost makers $52 million a
>year
>The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will
>require
>"quiet cars" ... emit alert sounds ... in reverse or forward at speeds
>up to
>about 19 mph ...
>
>
>
>
>http://evdl.org/evln/
>For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
>
>
>{brucedp.0catch.com}
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20161115-tp4684476.html
>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>Nabble.com.
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

_______________________________________________
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
As I recall, the 2011 Nissan Leaf that we had made a Jetson spaceship type
of sound at low speeds. Not very loud or obnoxious, but definitely not
sound that was produced by the drive train. I asked the dealership about
it, and was told that it was a voluntary action in a proactive effort by
Nissan, expecting such requirements at some point in the future.
By the way, I find the blind argument offensive...I grew up with 2 blind
friends. They could tell you how fast a bicycle was approaching, let alone
a car just from the tire noise...It is the pedestrian blinded by
electronics technology that we need to concern ourselves with!

-TT

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will not
> oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet enough and
> pleasant?
>
> I imagine with horror a city full of cars emitting 1khz square wave beeps,
> like so many commercial trucks and construction equipment. I can barely
> tolerate hearing those. Add to that and I will go crazy. I'm sure I'm not
> alone.
>
> Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious. But
> still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise from our
> current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: 15-Nov-16 4:27:39 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161115
>
>
> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require
> "quiet cars" like electric vehicles and hybrids to emit alert sounds at
> speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km/h) to help prevent injuries
> among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.
>
> The rules, which were required by Congress, will require car makers like
> Tesla, Nissan and Toyota to add alert sounds to all vehicles by September
> 2019.
>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-Acentra-trim-based-Leaf-Black-Edition-gt-Limited-
>> eu-availability-Mar-Aug-2017-td4684475.html
>> EVLN: Acentra trim based Leaf Black Edition> Limited.eu availability
>> Mar-Aug
>> 2017
>> Nissan Leaf Black Edition promises sleeker all-electric motoring
>>  ... stylish, premium design ... 1st 1000 receive a free in-vehicle wi-fi
>> hotspot ...  has its work cut out competing with cheaper mainstream cars
>> ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-21-5k-Leaf-Taxi-ie-gt-Floating-on-a-marshmallow-
>> while-saving-the-planet-td4684474.html
>> EVLN: €21.5k Leaf Taxi.ie> Floating on a marshmallow while ‘saving the
>> planet’
>> Taxi driver happy to be 'saving planet' with his electric car
>> Dublin taxi driver, Peter Hanley became one of the first taxi drivers in
>> Ireland to work in an electric car when he bought his new Nissan Leaf just
>> over a year ago ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-ALA-sez-Drive-Electric-and-protect-everyone-s-lung-
>> health-td4684469.html
>> EVLN: ALA sez Drive Electric and protect everyone's lung health
>> What’s the best way to keep your lungs healthy? Drive an electric car
>> You don’t hear much about keeping your lungs …
>>
>> +
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/Tesla-s-gallery-in-Aspen-part-of-big-push-in-ski-countr
>> y-of-the-West-td4684468.html
>> Tesla’s ‘gallery’ in Aspen part of big push in ski country of the West
>> Tesla beats electric path to ski towns
>> Sales of electric vehicles in the United States flattened in 2015 after a
>> couple of double-digit growth years. Some wondered if low gas prices had
>> dented the ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-
>> 2019-09-td4684467.html
>> $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
>> 'Quiet cars' rules to prevent injuries will cost makers $52 million a year
>> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require
>> "quiet cars" ... emit alert sounds ... in reverse or forward at speeds up
>> to
>> about 19 mph ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://evdl.org/evln/
>> For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.0catch.com}
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discus
>> sion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-
>> for-20161115-tp4684476.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> /NEDRA)
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> /NEDRA)
>
>


--
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

> On Nov 15, 2016, at 7:14 AM, Thos True via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> .It is the pedestrian blinded by
> electronics technology that we need to concern ourselves with!
>
Maybe we could have something that disabled cell phones.  That would cure the distracted driver problem too.

Ed
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Classical music or jazz would be nice!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 15 Nov 2016, at 15:00, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will not oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet enough and pleasant?
>
> I imagine with horror a city full of cars emitting 1khz square wave beeps, like so many commercial trucks and construction equipment. I can barely tolerate hearing those. Add to that and I will go crazy. I'm sure I'm not alone.
>
> Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious. But still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise from our current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: 15-Nov-16 4:27:39 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161115
>
>
> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require "quiet cars" like electric vehicles and hybrids to emit alert sounds at speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km/h) to help prevent injuries among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.
>
> The rules, which were required by Congress, will require car makers like Tesla, Nissan and Toyota to add alert sounds to all vehicles by September 2019.
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Acentra-trim-based-Leaf-Black-Edition-gt-Limited-eu-availability-Mar-Aug-2017-td4684475.html
>> EVLN: Acentra trim based Leaf Black Edition> Limited.eu availability Mar-Aug
>> 2017
>> Nissan Leaf Black Edition promises sleeker all-electric motoring
>> ... stylish, premium design ... 1st 1000 receive a free in-vehicle wi-fi
>> hotspot ...  has its work cut out competing with cheaper mainstream cars ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-21-5k-Leaf-Taxi-ie-gt-Floating-on-a-marshmallow-while-saving-the-planet-td4684474.html
>> EVLN: €21.5k Leaf Taxi.ie> Floating on a marshmallow while ‘saving the
>> planet’
>> Taxi driver happy to be 'saving planet' with his electric car
>> Dublin taxi driver, Peter Hanley became one of the first taxi drivers in
>> Ireland to work in an electric car when he bought his new Nissan Leaf just
>> over a year ago ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-ALA-sez-Drive-Electric-and-protect-everyone-s-lung-health-td4684469.html
>> EVLN: ALA sez Drive Electric and protect everyone's lung health
>> What’s the best way to keep your lungs healthy? Drive an electric car
>> You don’t hear much about keeping your lungs …
>>
>> +
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tesla-s-gallery-in-Aspen-part-of-big-push-in-ski-country-of-the-West-td4684468.html
>> Tesla’s ‘gallery’ in Aspen part of big push in ski country of the West
>> Tesla beats electric path to ski towns
>> Sales of electric vehicles in the United States flattened in 2015 after a
>> couple of double-digit growth years. Some wondered if low gas prices had
>> dented the ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-2019-09-td4684467.html
>> $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
>> 'Quiet cars' rules to prevent injuries will cost makers $52 million a year
>> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require
>> "quiet cars" ... emit alert sounds ... in reverse or forward at speeds up to
>> about 19 mph ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://evdl.org/evln/
>> For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.0catch.com}
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20161115-tp4684476.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will not
> oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet enough
> and pleasant?

It's always seemed to me that my EVs make plenty of noise (tires, wind,
transmission and differential gear noises, motor whine, controller
whistles, etc.) without having to add any explicit noisemakers. They're
about the same as most new ICEs. Some luxury ICEs are even quieter.

> Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious.
> But still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise
> from our current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.

If we're going to set some new standard, I think it should apply to
*all* vehicles, ICE as well as EV. That will prevent EV-haters from
legislating obnoxious standard *on purpose* to discourage EVs. It would
also put the general public on our side, as they don't want their ICEs
to be deliberately made noisy or obnoxious.

--
It is the responsibility of every American to be informed. Those who
expect to be both ignorant and free, expect what never was and never
will be. -- Thomas Jefferson
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Lee said (in part):
 
 > If we're going to set some new standard, I think it should apply to
> *all* vehicles, ICE as well as EV. That will prevent EV-haters from
> legislating obnoxious standard *on purpose* to discourage EVs. It would
> also put the general public on our side, as they don't want their ICEs
> to be deliberately made noisy or obnoxious.
 
 
 Unless you're my 24 year old son who wants his future car to be as loud
and obnoxious as possible :(
 
 
 I think you have a good idea however...
 
 Jim Walls
 


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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I’m afraid I have my own solution to this. I play my music very loudly when
I think someone may be at risk of not hearing me… ;)





[image: --]

Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
[image: https://]about.me/aminorjourney
<https://about.me/aminorjourney?promo=email_sig>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Jim Walls via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Lee said (in part):
>
>  > If we're going to set some new standard, I think it should apply to
> > *all* vehicles, ICE as well as EV. That will prevent EV-haters from
> > legislating obnoxious standard *on purpose* to discourage EVs. It would
> > also put the general public on our side, as they don't want their ICEs
> > to be deliberately made noisy or obnoxious.
>
>
>  Unless you're my 24 year old son who wants his future car to be as loud
> and obnoxious as possible :(
>
>
>  I think you have a good idea however...
>
>  Jim Walls
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
My question was not about whether we like or dislike the idea of adding
a noisemaker. (I don't, frankly.) The question is what can we do to
ensure that the noise-making rules are designed in a manner that doesn't
aggravate the ambient noise we already must tolerate. Is there a way to
participate in this?

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Lee Hart via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc:
Sent: 15-Nov-16 9:56:45 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules
by 2019/09

>Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will
>>not
>>oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet
>>enough
>>and pleasant?
>
>It's always seemed to me that my EVs make plenty of noise (tires, wind,
>transmission and differential gear noises, motor whine, controller
>whistles, etc.) without having to add any explicit noisemakers. They're
>about the same as most new ICEs. Some luxury ICEs are even quieter.
>
>>Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious.
>>But still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise
>>from our current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.
>
>If we're going to set some new standard, I think it should apply to
>*all* vehicles, ICE as well as EV. That will prevent EV-haters from
>legislating obnoxious standard *on purpose* to discourage EVs. It would
>also put the general public on our side, as they don't want their ICEs
>to be deliberately made noisy or obnoxious.
>
>-- It is the responsibility of every American to be informed. Those who
>expect to be both ignorant and free, expect what never was and never
>will be. -- Thomas Jefferson
>--
>Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>_______________________________________________
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>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

tomw
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I second Ed's suggestion.
Is it telling that I had a bunch of guys in my car as passenger
and while I was driving, my cellphone rang in my pocket.
One of them told me that my phone was ringing, expecting me to answer it
even though we were driving at high speed and I was concentrating on
traffic, so I explained: I have voicemail, exactly for this purpose that
when I can't take a call, they can leave a message and I can check later
after I finished driving, who called and what they called me for.
All started laughing nervously, as if this was a new concept, but one
piped up to express that he agreed that this was the best solution in
this case.

Uh, is this not normal and do I need to be an exceptional example to not
answer my phone while driving? It blew my mind and reminded me *why* we
see an increase in traffic related deaths since 2010.
The town I live in even received a grant for its Public Safety
organisation to help counter this negative trend and give more focus on
traffic safety.
Car makers would do well to pay attention to avoiding technology
distraction inside cars. I know that the Leaf does not allow to operate
its menu as long as it is driving. I know because I was in (long) line
for a traffic signal and browsed through the menu to set the time on the
dash when cars in front of me started rolling so I followed and the menu
changed from the time adjustment to a warning that menu operations are
blocked while moving. This warning stayed as long as the car was
rolling.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ed Blackmond
via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 9:34 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules
by2019/09


> On Nov 15, 2016, at 7:14 AM, Thos True via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>
> .It is the pedestrian blinded by
> electronics technology that we need to concern ourselves with!
>
Maybe we could have something that disabled cell phones.  That would
cure the distracted driver problem too.

Ed
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by tomw
Thanks, just submitted my comments to the hotline.  Maybe they will add them to whatever committee looks at drafting this.

Lawrence

> On Nov 15, 2016, at 10:56, tomw via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> http://www.nhtsa.gov/About-NHTSA/NHTSA-Contact-Information
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-2019-09-tp4684467p4684487.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>

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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ed Blackmond via EV
> Maybe we could have something that disabled cell phones.  That would cure the
distracted
> driver problem too.

Great idea! Sort of like the grocery market carts, when you cross their property
line there is a little lock down device... Make one 2 ft or so from the curb,
all along the curb, not just at intersections, that will stop the phone from
working and say something both audibly and visually like' HEY Stop texting,
talking or gaming on your phone and pay attention to the road in front of you,
it may just save your life!'


Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


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Digital Deadwalkers : $52M/yr alert-sound adds noise pollution& not-a-solution

brucedp5
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list


[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-2019-09-tp4684467p4684478.html
]

TT sez >It is the pedestrian blinded by electronics technology that we need to concern ourselves with!<

AAOS calls these Digital Deadwalkers:

[video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLrcY7iSxFU
Digital Deadwalkers
American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons  Jan 12, 2015
"Dude. Engage!"
The AAOS public service campaign "Digital Deadwalkers" encourages pedestrians to engage in and with their surroundings.
Distracted driving can cause crashes, injuries and death. It's a prevalent public issue that the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons (AAOS) continues to champion. But what about distracted walking? What are the consequences of pedestrians talking on the phone, texting, listening to music, engaging deeply in conversation with the person next to them, or focusing on anything or anyone other than the task of getting where they need to go?

Distracted "deadwalkers" are causing an epidemic of fractures and other orthopaedic injuries. Danger lurks at every corner of our cities and towns, but what if pedestrians are the ones posing the threats to themselves and others? Today, more and more pedestrians fall down stairs, trip over curbs or other objects, and in many instances, step into traffic, causing serious injury, and even death, each year.

"We know that the number of injuries to pedestrians using their phones has nearly tripled since 2004, and surveys have shown that 60% of pedestrians are distracted by other activities while walking," said Alan Hilibrand, MD, chair of the AAOS Communications Cabinet. "Orthopaedic surgeons—the medical doctors who specialize in bones, muscles and joints—focus on keeping bones strong so that we can keep our nation in motion. In 2009, AAOS launched the "Decide to Drive" campaign to educate children, teens and adults about the dangers of distracted driving. For 2015, the Academy is now expanding its message to include the dangers of distracted walking."
http://www.orthoinfo.org/DistractedPedestrians


 In my life and in my area (Silicon Valley, CA) there are far more distracted people (that are not physically blind) that do incredibly dumb things as they have disconnected themselves from the real world (its like the mobile devices are a tech-drug of a distracted lifestyle)

To some, this is now common. For others, this seems unbelievable. And it isn't just teens
https://www.google.com/search?q=teen+mobile&hs=zbP&biw=1024&bih=642&source=lnms&tbm=isch

 Children to Tweens (age 6 - 12) are also affected:
https://www.google.com/search?q=tween+mobile&hs=zbP&biw=1024&bih=642&source=lnms&tbm=isch

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/children-teen-teenager-teen_culture-smartphone-cellphone-mbcn4046_low.jpg

http://lowres.jantoo.com/young-people-parenting-teens-gadget-distraction-parent-33235139_low.jpg


 There is a whole new way to pacify your kid by throwing a cheap mobile tech device at them (see links below).

 Children and tweens that (if they survive) will grow up to be distracted adults:
http://image.cagle.com/71027/1155/71027.png?349a92


My point in posting this is that the Million$ being spent are not going to resolve what the advocates for the blind say is the issue (they are pushing hard on a door marked pull).

The quiet from electrified vehicles made noisy will not resolve the tech-addicted brain-distracted children, tweens, teens and adults that will do dumb disconnected things (like walk without looking> right in front of a moving vehicle).

Loud or quiet, there are a whole lot more chances to hit the distracted walking than a blind person carrying a white cane.

I am not saying something should not be done to help the blind. But throwing $52M at it in this way which does not totally resolve the problem is not a fix.

IMO I think there has to be other ways to alert the blind of coming moving vehicles. Possibly on an individual blind person point of approach. Perhaps their white cane would have beeping tech that would alert the blind of approaching vehicles, etc.



Links  [dated]
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/walking-while-texting-could-soon-result-in-jail-time/
Walking while texting could get you arrested, if a NJ law is passed
March 28, 2016
...
http://www.safebee.com/travel/distracted-walking-your-phone-and-intersections-dont-mix
Distracted Walking: Your Phone and Intersections Don't Mix
January 14, 2016  "Digital deadwalkers" are tripping and falling down stairs
...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2344933/Pedestrian-mobile-phone-injuries-DOUBLE-years.html
The dangers of walking and talking: Pedestrian mobile phone injuries DOUBLE in five years
20 June 2013  Around 1,500 pedestrians injured while using a mobile were treated in 2010
Patients include a boy, 14, who fell 8ft off a bridge while talking on a phone
Researchers warn figures will continue to rise as mobile use increases and could double again by 2015
...
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/06/study-distracted-walking-causes-more-injuries-than-distracted-driving/277032/
Study: 'Distracted Walking' Causes More Injuries Than Distracted Driving
JUN 20, 2013  Even when they're not texting, just talking on the phone puts pedestrians at risk.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2901261/Worrying-rise-iPad-childminder-parents-admit-using-tablets-children-quiet.html
Worrying rise of the iPad childminder: more and more parents admit using tablets to keep their children quiet
7 January 2015  The royals have admitted Prince George knows what to do with an iPad
They are by no means the only family in the country giving out technology at a young age
In a time where iPaddy has become a popular phrase, more and more children are being given the Apple products
...
http://www.jonburras.com/pdfs/The-Cell-Phone-A-Modern-Day-Pacifier.pdf
The Cell Phone: A Modern Day "Pacifier"
Oct 11, 2013  The "pacifier" has done its trick once again to calm the anxious child. This simple ... These new modern day "binkies" are called "Cell Phones." ...
...
http://www.techlicious.com/blog/mobile-devices-the-new-pacifier/
Mobile Devices: The New Pacifier?
October 03, 2012 ... parents today are distracting their children from boisterous behavior? They give them a smartphone or tablet ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.0catch.com}
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

fred ungewitter
In reply to this post by brucedp
Has anyone noticed that this alleged safety feature simply removes by yet one more step the responsibility of the operator of the motor vehicle to be aware of his surroundings? If there's a pedestrian ahead who does not look and does not hear the motor vehicle approaching, it is the driver's responsibility to make note of this.

Oh, it's okay that the pedestrian stepped off the curb and I killed him. I have a noisemaker on my EV. The media calls it an accident, further removing my responsibility, because everyone know that accidents happen.

If it can be predicted or if it can be avoided, it's not an accident, it's a crash.

Pickup truck kills pedestrian. Driver calls it an accident, no charges are filed. He should not be owning a pickup truck that kills people. One rarely sees a newspaper article that reads that a pickup truck driver killed a pedestrian.

Put the responsibility back in the driver's seat.
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I used the link Tom provided to submit this comment, feel free to copy
or draft your own:

Subject: Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141
I like to see that Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141 which
is adding a pedestrian warning sound to quiet cars, will be mandatory
for *all* vehicles, not just Hybrid and Electric Vehicles. There are
many more high-end cars with Internal Combustion engine that emit as
little noise as Hybrid and Electric Vehicles, so if the intent is to
make sure pedestrians are safe then the sound maker for quiet cars must
apply to all cars, not just a small fraction.
Can you pass this comment to the responsible person for Federal Motor
Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141,
Thanks!
=====================================================

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
office +1 408 383 7626                    Skype: cor_van_de_water
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-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Harris
via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:39 AM
To: tomw; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules
by 2019/09

Thanks, just submitted my comments to the hotline.  Maybe they will add
them to whatever committee looks at drafting this.

Lawrence

> On Nov 15, 2016, at 10:56, tomw via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> http://www.nhtsa.gov/About-NHTSA/NHTSA-Contact-Information
>
> --
> View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/52M-yr-Quie
t-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-2019-09-tp4684467p4684487.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Hi Thos,
Yep, early Leafs have noise maker that can be canceled (but just like the communication warning, returns after the next time starting).
I believe this was so that the vehicle can be sold in countries where a noise maker is allowed (or required) but needs to be muted at night.

The blind person argument you describe is set in dead silence, the city street situation is set in a surrounding with a lot of other noises masking the quiet sound of slow rolling tires.
There are plenty reports about this and while it is possible for an attentive person in a quiet street to hear all traffic approaching (I actually rely on this when I am riding my bike) it is not possible to depend on this in noisier environments and that is where the noise maker comes in.
Note that the noise maker is not making a lot of noise, it is not your neighborhood jacked pickup truck that everybody recognises from waking them while they sleep, it is just a small hiss as if the tire has a leak. It does not penetrate a wall, unlike the sound of a straight pipe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95O14kUgmBI

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Thos True via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 7:14 AM
To: Peri Hartman; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by2019/09

As I recall, the 2011 Nissan Leaf that we had made a Jetson spaceship type
of sound at low speeds. Not very loud or obnoxious, but definitely not
sound that was produced by the drive train. I asked the dealership about
it, and was told that it was a voluntary action in a proactive effort by
Nissan, expecting such requirements at some point in the future.
By the way, I find the blind argument offensive...I grew up with 2 blind
friends. They could tell you how fast a bicycle was approaching, let alone
a car just from the tire noise...It is the pedestrian blinded by
electronics technology that we need to concern ourselves with!

-TT

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will not
> oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet enough and
> pleasant?
>
> I imagine with horror a city full of cars emitting 1khz square wave beeps,
> like so many commercial trucks and construction equipment. I can barely
> tolerate hearing those. Add to that and I will go crazy. I'm sure I'm not
> alone.
>
> Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious. But
> still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise from our
> current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: 15-Nov-16 4:27:39 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161115
>
>
> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require
> "quiet cars" like electric vehicles and hybrids to emit alert sounds at
> speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km/h) to help prevent injuries
> among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.
>
> The rules, which were required by Congress, will require car makers like
> Tesla, Nissan and Toyota to add alert sounds to all vehicles by September
> 2019.
>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-Acentra-trim-based-Leaf-Black-Edition-gt-Limited-
>> eu-availability-Mar-Aug-2017-td4684475.html
>> EVLN: Acentra trim based Leaf Black Edition> Limited.eu availability
>> Mar-Aug
>> 2017
>> Nissan Leaf Black Edition promises sleeker all-electric motoring
>>  ... stylish, premium design ... 1st 1000 receive a free in-vehicle wi-fi
>> hotspot ...  has its work cut out competing with cheaper mainstream cars
>> ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-21-5k-Leaf-Taxi-ie-gt-Floating-on-a-marshmallow-
>> while-saving-the-planet-td4684474.html
>> EVLN: €21.5k Leaf Taxi.ie> Floating on a marshmallow while ‘saving the
>> planet’
>> Taxi driver happy to be 'saving planet' with his electric car
>> Dublin taxi driver, Peter Hanley became one of the first taxi drivers in
>> Ireland to work in an electric car when he bought his new Nissan Leaf just
>> over a year ago ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-ALA-sez-Drive-Electric-and-protect-everyone-s-lung-
>> health-td4684469.html
>> EVLN: ALA sez Drive Electric and protect everyone's lung health
>> What’s the best way to keep your lungs healthy? Drive an electric car
>> You don’t hear much about keeping your lungs …
>>
>> +
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/Tesla-s-gallery-in-Aspen-part-of-big-push-in-ski-countr
>> y-of-the-West-td4684468.html
>> Tesla’s ‘gallery’ in Aspen part of big push in ski country of the West
>> Tesla beats electric path to ski towns
>> Sales of electric vehicles in the United States flattened in 2015 after a
>> couple of double-digit growth years. Some wondered if low gas prices had
>> dented the ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-
>> 2019-09-td4684467.html
>> $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
>> 'Quiet cars' rules to prevent injuries will cost makers $52 million a year
>> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require
>> "quiet cars" ... emit alert sounds ... in reverse or forward at speeds up
>> to
>> about 19 mph ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://evdl.org/evln/
>> For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.0catch.com}
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discus
>> sion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-
>> for-20161115-tp4684476.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> /NEDRA)
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>


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Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Cor,

While you cite an example where the sound is a "small hiss", the article
refers to it as an "alert sound". That could mean just about anything. I
think it's important that this sound be reasonable for all parties. I
also agree that it should apply to all quiet vehicles, not just hybrids
and EVs.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Cor van de Water" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>; "Peri
Hartman" <[hidden email]>
Cc:
Sent: 15-Nov-16 12:56:44 PM
Subject: RE: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules
by2019/09

>Hi Thos,
>Yep, early Leafs have noise maker that can be canceled (but just like
>the communication warning, returns after the next time starting).
>I believe this was so that the vehicle can be sold in countries where a
>noise maker is allowed (or required) but needs to be muted at night.
>
>The blind person argument you describe is set in dead silence, the city
>street situation is set in a surrounding with a lot of other noises
>masking the quiet sound of slow rolling tires.
>There are plenty reports about this and while it is possible for an
>attentive person in a quiet street to hear all traffic approaching (I
>actually rely on this when I am riding my bike) it is not possible to
>depend on this in noisier environments and that is where the noise
>maker comes in.
>Note that the noise maker is not making a lot of noise, it is not your
>neighborhood jacked pickup truck that everybody recognises from waking
>them while they sleep, it is just a small hiss as if the tire has a
>leak. It does not penetrate a wall, unlike the sound of a straight
>pipe.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95O14kUgmBI
>
>Cor van de Water
>Chief Scientist
>Proxim Wireless
>
>office +1 408 383 7626                    Skype: cor_van_de_water
>XoIP   +31 87 784 1130                    private: cvandewater.info
>
>http://www.proxim.com
>
>This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
>and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you
>received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.
>  Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part
>of this message is prohibited.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Thos True via
>EV
>Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 7:14 AM
>To: Peri Hartman; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound
>rules by2019/09
>
>As I recall, the 2011 Nissan Leaf that we had made a Jetson spaceship
>type
>of sound at low speeds. Not very loud or obnoxious, but definitely not
>sound that was produced by the drive train. I asked the dealership
>about
>it, and was told that it was a voluntary action in a proactive effort
>by
>Nissan, expecting such requirements at some point in the future.
>By the way, I find the blind argument offensive...I grew up with 2
>blind
>friends. They could tell you how fast a bicycle was approaching, let
>alone
>a car just from the tire noise...It is the pedestrian blinded by
>electronics technology that we need to concern ourselves with!
>
>-TT
>
>On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Peri Hartman via EV
><[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>>  While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will
>>not
>>  oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet
>>enough and
>>  pleasant?
>>
>>  I imagine with horror a city full of cars emitting 1khz square wave
>>beeps,
>>  like so many commercial trucks and construction equipment. I can
>>barely
>>  tolerate hearing those. Add to that and I will go crazy. I'm sure I'm
>>not
>>  alone.
>>
>>  Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious.
>>But
>>  still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise
>>from our
>>  current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.
>>
>>  Peri
>>
>>  ------ Original Message ------
>>  From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
>>  To: [hidden email]
>>  Cc:
>>  Sent: 15-Nov-16 4:27:39 AM
>>  Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161115
>>
>>
>>  The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will
>>require
>>  "quiet cars" like electric vehicles and hybrids to emit alert sounds
>>at
>>  speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km/h) to help prevent
>>injuries
>>  among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.
>>
>>  The rules, which were required by Congress, will require car makers
>>like
>>  Tesla, Nissan and Toyota to add alert sounds to all vehicles by
>>September
>>  2019.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>>>  com/EVLN-Acentra-trim-based-Leaf-Black-Edition-gt-Limited-
>>>  eu-availability-Mar-Aug-2017-td4684475.html
>>>  EVLN: Acentra trim based Leaf Black Edition> Limited.eu availability
>>>  Mar-Aug
>>>  2017
>>>  Nissan Leaf Black Edition promises sleeker all-electric motoring
>>>   ... stylish, premium design ... 1st 1000 receive a free in-vehicle
>>>wi-fi
>>>  hotspot ...  has its work cut out competing with cheaper mainstream
>>>cars
>>>  ...
>>>
>>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>>>  com/EVLN-21-5k-Leaf-Taxi-ie-gt-Floating-on-a-marshmallow-
>>>  while-saving-the-planet-td4684474.html
>>>  EVLN: €21.5k Leaf Taxi.ie> Floating on a marshmallow while ‘saving
>>>the
>>>  planet’
>>>  Taxi driver happy to be 'saving planet' with his electric car
>>>  Dublin taxi driver, Peter Hanley became one of the first taxi
>>>drivers in
>>>  Ireland to work in an electric car when he bought his new Nissan
>>>Leaf just
>>>  over a year ago ...
>>>
>>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>>>  com/EVLN-ALA-sez-Drive-Electric-and-protect-everyone-s-lung-
>>>  health-td4684469.html
>>>  EVLN: ALA sez Drive Electric and protect everyone's lung health
>>>  What’s the best way to keep your lungs healthy? Drive an electric
>>>car
>>>  You don’t hear much about keeping your lungs …
>>>
>>>  +
>>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>>>  com/Tesla-s-gallery-in-Aspen-part-of-big-push-in-ski-countr
>>>  y-of-the-West-td4684468.html
>>>  Tesla’s ‘gallery’ in Aspen part of big push in ski country of the
>>>West
>>>  Tesla beats electric path to ski towns
>>>  Sales of electric vehicles in the United States flattened in 2015
>>>after a
>>>  couple of double-digit growth years. Some wondered if low gas prices
>>>had
>>>  dented the ...
>>>
>>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>>>  com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-
>>>  2019-09-td4684467.html
>>>  $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
>>>  'Quiet cars' rules to prevent injuries will cost makers $52 million
>>>a year
>>>  The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will
>>>require
>>>  "quiet cars" ... emit alert sounds ... in reverse or forward at
>>>speeds up
>>>  to
>>>  about 19 mph ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  http://evdl.org/evln/
>>>  For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
>>>
>>>
>>>  {brucedp.0catch.com}
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discus
>>>  sion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-
>>>  for-20161115-tp4684476.html
>>>  Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive
>>>at
>>>  Nabble.com.
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>  http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>>  Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>>>  Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>>>  /NEDRA)
>>>
>>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>  Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>>  /NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass
>is
>merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 15 Nov 2016 at 12:40, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:

> Make one 2 ft or so from the curb ....that will stop the phone from
> working and say something both audibly and visually  ...

I can just see this:

You're reporting an emergency to 911 and you get cut off.

You're recording a cop beating up an innocent old lady and your phone shuts
down.

You're plugging into an EVSE, trying to activate it on your phone, and you
can't.

Safety regulations are good things where the individual has no power to gain
improvement.  That's why FMVSS are a net positive.  Without that
legislation, cars today probably wouldn't have seat belts or crush zones --
basically they'd be little improved from 1959 Chevrolets.  "Safety doesn't
sell."

But ultimately every individual has to take personal responsibility for his
own safety.  When you're using a mobile phone on the street, you have to
have the good sense to pay attention to what's around you.  If you have to
give your full attention to the phone for a while, STOP in a safe place,
whether you're driving or walking.   That is your responsibility.

I might go along with something that beeps and pops up a window saying
something like "Danger, cross traffic ahead," but disabling the phone?  Nope
nope nope nope nope nope nope nope.  Sorry, not a good idea.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Sheesh David, lighten up.... I guess you took my suggestion seriously...I was
just joking. But now that you bring it up -

-911 calls could be made to go thru all the time, there could even be a
provision that says if you're driving, you can make 911 calls... (if there isn't
already)
-Cops beating up innocents, I'm all for recording that sort thing... it seems as
if there is much too much of it going on lately, beating up, shooting etc, and
the phones could be made to record all the racist incidents that seem to be
happening with much more frequency now.
-Make the EVSE smart so that it knows when the plug is approaching the inlet...
no need for a phone.

So if the phone says something like 'Danger Will Robinson', or whatever the
owners name happens to be that would ok with you. Good, good, good, good, good,
good, good.

 Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 5:25 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by
2019/09

>
> On 15 Nov 2016 at 12:40, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:
>
> > Make one 2 ft or so from the curb ....that will stop the phone from
> > working and say something both audibly and visually  ...
>
> I can just see this:
>
> You're reporting an emergency to 911 and you get cut off.
>
> You're recording a cop beating up an innocent old lady and your phone shuts
down.
>
> You're plugging into an EVSE, trying to activate it on your phone, and you
can't.
>
> Safety regulations are good things where the individual has no power to gain
improvement.
> That's why FMVSS are a net positive.  Without that legislation, cars today
probably wouldn't
> have seat belts or crush zones -- basically they'd be little improved from
1959 Chevrolets.
> "Safety doesn't sell."
>
> But ultimately every individual has to take personal responsibility for his
own safety.  When
> you're using a mobile phone on the street, you have to have the good sense to
pay attention
> to what's around you.  If you have to give your full attention to the phone
for a while, STOP in a
> safe place,
> whether you're driving or walking.   That is your responsibility.
>
> I might go along with something that beeps and pops up a window saying
something like
> "Danger, cross traffic ahead," but disabling the phone?  Nope nope nope nope
nope nope
> nope nope.  Sorry, not a good idea.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  To send
a private
> message, please obtain my email address from the webpage
http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)


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