AC-50

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AC-50

Rush Dougherty
In 05, I bought a Zilla 1kA, 73-300v, Hairball 2 with HEPI option, HEPA, plus all the fuses etc. for
$2800.

In a deal I got a ADC 9" motor, cost would have been about $1400.

So total price -         Zilla - $2800
                         ADC 9" - $1400
           Total                    - $4600

For about $4400, I can get a AC-50 system - an AC-50 Electric Motor, a Curtis 1238-7501 Controller.

The AC-50 system gives me 50 HP, a peak torque of 115 ft lbs, Regen and Reverse.

Looks like AC Systems are getting to be more affordable and more competitive.

Rush

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Re: AC-50

Zeke Yewdall
That AC-50 system is half or less the power than the Zilla 1k with the ADC
9" though.... I have one, and it's 96 volts 550 amps... about the same power
as an old curtiss, not a Zilla 1k.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Rush <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In 05, I bought a Zilla 1kA, 73-300v, Hairball 2 with HEPI option, HEPA,
> plus all the fuses etc. for
> $2800.
>
> In a deal I got a ADC 9" motor, cost would have been about $1400.
>
> So total price -         Zilla - $2800
>                         ADC 9" - $1400
>           Total                    - $4600
>
> For about $4400, I can get a AC-50 system - an AC-50 Electric Motor, a
> Curtis 1238-7501 Controller.
>
> The AC-50 system gives me 50 HP, a peak torque of 115 ft lbs, Regen and
> Reverse.
>
> Looks like AC Systems are getting to be more affordable and more
> competitive.
>
> Rush
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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Re: AC-50

AMPhibian
Actually you can go to 120V and the new Curtis 1238-7601 allows 650 amps.

Zeke Yewdall wrote
That AC-50 system is half or less the power than the Zilla 1k with the ADC
9" though.... I have one, and it's 96 volts 550 amps... about the same power
as an old curtiss, not a Zilla 1k.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Rush <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In 05, I bought a Zilla 1kA, 73-300v, Hairball 2 with HEPI option, HEPA,
> plus all the fuses etc. for
> $2800.
>
> In a deal I got a ADC 9" motor, cost would have been about $1400.
>
> So total price -         Zilla - $2800
>                         ADC 9" - $1400
>           Total                    - $4600
>
> For about $4400, I can get a AC-50 system - an AC-50 Electric Motor, a
> Curtis 1238-7501 Controller.
>
> The AC-50 system gives me 50 HP, a peak torque of 115 ft lbs, Regen and
> Reverse.
>
> Looks like AC Systems are getting to be more affordable and more
> competitive.
>
> Rush
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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Re: AC-50

tomw
In reply to this post by Rush Dougherty
The AC50/1238-7501 has a max torque of about 90 ft-lb, not 115 (source: Curtis dyno tests).  The AC31 has about 110 or 115 ft-lb torque but only out to about 1800 rpm, whereas the AC50 has max torque out to about 3000 rpm with 96V nominal. I'd agree with Zeke, it is more comparable to a 9" series DC motor with 500A controller, much lower max torque than with a 1kA controller.  I've been driving a car with one for about 1 1/2 years, 10,000 miles (http://www.evalbum.com/3060). Very reliable motor/controller.  It has a nominal 115V pack, 36 cells, which gives about 67 H.P. peak at about 3900 rpm. The controller shuts down at 130V.  It's a zippy little car.
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Re: AC-50

Cruisin
In reply to this post by AMPhibian
Having been in this conversion business a long time, I have seen the trend move more towards the AC arena from the DC. Some advantages are the re-gen, lower voltage requirement, less watt hour consumption and lower maintance over the long haul. However, for those with the heavy rides may want to stick with the Netgain WARP 11 or 13 for brute torque. Another advantage of the AC that should NOT be overlooked is the higher RPM up to 8000rpm or more. This eliminates the need to use more than one gear. The real benefit though is the ability to program the controller to do just about anything you want it to do. I sell the AC50 to forum members for $4300.00 and provide full support and free programming.

Al Bullock
cruisin@live.com
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Re: AC-50

Roger Heuckeroth
In reply to this post by AMPhibian
Well, they say the controller can take a max voltage of 130V.  So, say  
you have a LiFePo4 pack with a 3.65V/cell top voltage.  That would  
allow you a 35 cell pack (3.65V x 35 = 127.75V)
Or, you could only charge to 3.6V and use 36 cells (3.6V x 36 =  
129.6V).  In any case the nominal working voltage will quickly fall to  
3.3V (3.3V x 36 = 118.8V).  Now say they are 200 Ah cells, when you  
pull 650A you will be at 3.25C discharge rate, and at that rate you  
will probably be down around 2.8V/ cell, so your voltage would be 2.8V  
x 36 = 100.8V.   So, max power into the controller is around 100 x 650  
= 65 kW.  If you assume 85% motor and controller efficiency, your down  
to 55 kW (~74 HP).

This is enough power for some, but hardly compares to what a HV Zilla  
and 9" DC motor can do.
i
Now say you go with 72 100 Ah cells instead of 36 200 Ah cells (same  
energy, and about the same cost). Now you have a pack with a nominal  
voltage of 3.65V x 72 = 262.8V and a 10 second 1000 amp burst  
capability of 2.5V x 72 = 180V.   You can put 180V and 1000 amps to  
the motor (albeit for short durations).  Assuming 87% motor efficiency  
this puts peak power at 157kW (~210 HP).

The DC clearly wins on performance.

On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:38 AM, AMPhibian wrote:

> Actually you can go to 120V and the new Curtis 1238-7601 allows 650  
> amps.
>
>
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>>
>> That AC-50 system is half or less the power than the Zilla 1k with  
>> the ADC
>> 9" though.... I have one, and it's 96 volts 550 amps... about the  
>> same
>> power
>> as an old curtiss, not a Zilla 1k.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Rush &lt;[hidden email]&gt;  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In 05, I bought a Zilla 1kA, 73-300v, Hairball 2 with HEPI option,  
>>> HEPA,
>>> plus all the fuses etc. for
>>> $2800.
>>>
>>> In a deal I got a ADC 9" motor, cost would have been about $1400.
>>>
>>> So total price -         Zilla - $2800
>>>                        ADC 9" - $1400
>>>          Total                    - $4600
>>>
>>> For about $4400, I can get a AC-50 system - an AC-50 Electric  
>>> Motor, a
>>> Curtis 1238-7501 Controller.
>>>
>>> The AC-50 system gives me 50 HP, a peak torque of 115 ft lbs,  
>>> Regen and
>>> Reverse.
>>>
>>> Looks like AC Systems are getting to be more affordable and more
>>> competitive.
>>>

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Re: AC-50

AMPhibian
I run 36 cells with no problem. Charged to 3.45V they drop quickly below 3.40 off the charger.  (CALB cells, no good reason to go above 3.45 really.)
Certainly a Warp9 and a Zilla, or Soliton1, will give you significantly more power.  Hopefully someday Curtis will build the rumored 144V controller, the motor can certainly handle more power.  
Roger Heuckeroth wrote
Well, they say the controller can take a max voltage of 130V.  So, say  
you have a LiFePo4 pack with a 3.65V/cell top voltage.  That would  
allow you a 35 cell pack (3.65V x 35 = 127.75V)
Or, you could only charge to 3.6V and use 36 cells (3.6V x 36 =  
129.6V).  In any case the nominal working voltage will quickly fall to  
3.3V (3.3V x 36 = 118.8V).  Now say they are 200 Ah cells, when you  
pull 650A you will be at 3.25C discharge rate, and at that rate you  
will probably be down around 2.8V/ cell, so your voltage would be 2.8V  
x 36 = 100.8V.   So, max power into the controller is around 100 x 650  
= 65 kW.  If you assume 85% motor and controller efficiency, your down  
to 55 kW (~74 HP).

This is enough power for some, but hardly compares to what a HV Zilla  
and 9" DC motor can do.
i
Now say you go with 72 100 Ah cells instead of 36 200 Ah cells (same  
energy, and about the same cost). Now you have a pack with a nominal  
voltage of 3.65V x 72 = 262.8V and a 10 second 1000 amp burst  
capability of 2.5V x 72 = 180V.   You can put 180V and 1000 amps to  
the motor (albeit for short durations).  Assuming 87% motor efficiency  
this puts peak power at 157kW (~210 HP).

The DC clearly wins on performance.

On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:38 AM, AMPhibian wrote:

> Actually you can go to 120V and the new Curtis 1238-7601 allows 650  
> amps.
>
>
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>>
>> That AC-50 system is half or less the power than the Zilla 1k with  
>> the ADC
>> 9" though.... I have one, and it's 96 volts 550 amps... about the  
>> same
>> power
>> as an old curtiss, not a Zilla 1k.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Rush <[hidden email]>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In 05, I bought a Zilla 1kA, 73-300v, Hairball 2 with HEPI option,  
>>> HEPA,
>>> plus all the fuses etc. for
>>> $2800.
>>>
>>> In a deal I got a ADC 9" motor, cost would have been about $1400.
>>>
>>> So total price -         Zilla - $2800
>>>                        ADC 9" - $1400
>>>          Total                    - $4600
>>>
>>> For about $4400, I can get a AC-50 system - an AC-50 Electric  
>>> Motor, a
>>> Curtis 1238-7501 Controller.
>>>
>>> The AC-50 system gives me 50 HP, a peak torque of 115 ft lbs,  
>>> Regen and
>>> Reverse.
>>>
>>> Looks like AC Systems are getting to be more affordable and more
>>> competitive.
>>>

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Re: AC-50

AMPhibian
In reply to this post by tomw
tomw wrote
The AC50/1238-7501 has a max torque of about 90 ft-lb, not 115 (source: Curtis dyno tests).  
The new 650 amp 7601 should boost that up some.  Are you considering upgrading?  I'll probably wait and hope for the higher voltage controller as the 650 amps would really strain my 100 amp hours cells.