AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?

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AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?

Ben Jarrett-2


Hi All,

I'm considering using the new HPEV AC-76 and 144 Curtis controller in my Jeep.
Has anyone on the list had a chance to play with this combo?  One bummer is that
my pack is currently at 160V nom (180V max) so I need to at least remove one cell - which
will then affect my elcon charger (I don't want to rely on mini-bms to shut things off).

On the charger note...

I've been considering upgrading from my wimpy 2kW charger.  I share a charger at work
with other folks so a faster recharge time would be great.  I could charge at home, but
it's nice to get the free charge at work.  Also, I'd love to recharge faster before
it gets too hot in day.  I'm thinking about using a Manzanita unit, but I'm concerned
about it not being isolated.  Also, I'd love to get something that is UL listed.  Any
thoughts on this?

-bemn

-ben
www.evalbum.com/4001



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Re: AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?

Cruisin
Get a Elcon 6000 which has 4 fans for cooling. I have used one for years and am happy with it. The rule of thumb now is always get a 6kw charger or larger, just like the production cars. Anything smaller and you will regret it. I would NOT use anything that is not isolated either. Do you think any of the production cars use a non isolated product? No.
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Re: AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?

corbin dunn
In reply to this post by Ben Jarrett-2

On Jun 25, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Ben Jarrett <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm considering using the new HPEV AC-76 and 144 Curtis controller in my Jeep.
> Has anyone on the list had a chance to play with this combo?  One bummer is that
> my pack is currently at 160V nom (180V max) so I need to at least remove one cell - which
> will then affect my elcon charger (I don't want to rely on mini-bms to shut things off).
>
> On the charger note...
>
> I've been considering upgrading from my wimpy 2kW charger.  I share a charger at work
> with other folks so a faster recharge time would be great.  I could charge at home, but
> it's nice to get the free charge at work.  Also, I'd love to recharge faster before
> it gets too hot in day.  I'm thinking about using a Manzanita unit, but I'm concerned
> about it not being isolated.  Also, I'd love to get something that is UL listed. Any
> thoughts on this?
>

I've had bad experience with Manzanita chargers.

http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2012/09/plug-bug-pfc-30-charger-failed-again/
http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2011/05/charger-not-charging/

Neither failure was my fault.

I'd recommend the 10kw DIY charger.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59210
http://www.emotorwerks.com

corbin


> -bemn
>
> -ben
> www.evalbum.com/4001
>
>
>
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Re: AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?

tomw
In reply to this post by Ben Jarrett-2
Last I heard HPEVS was recommending a max of 47 cells for use with the 144V Curtis controller to avoid driving cell voltage too high with regen.  Of course you could just keep all 50 you have and charge them to a lower voltage to begin with.  Not many choices for higher power isolated chargers.  Elcon seems to be the best deal.  I've been using a Manzanita for almost 4 years with no problems, but you do have to always remember it is non-isolated.  The "diy" charger made by EMW that Corbin mentioned is also non-isolated.
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Re: AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?

M. G.

What would it take to make any charger isolated?
Mike

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

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Re: AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?

Cor van de Water
Depends whether you design and build the charger or you want a retrofit.
The simplest form of isolating anything is to add an isolation
transformer on the incoming AC lines. Drawback is that it is a heavy and
somewhat expensive (and inefficient) device, especially for large power
levels. Up to 1000 or 1500 Watts it is OK and there are plenty charger
implementations that actually use a transformer (either for isolation or
to adjust voltage, in the latter case it is not guaranteed to be
isolated, depending on the design.
Modern design will always use high frequent conversion which allows
isolation using much smaller transformers, typically using some form of
powder iron as conversion losses in old fashoned laminated core (iron
sheets) transformers are too high at high frequency.
This means that chargers (as well as power supplies) can be much smaller
and lighter and still provide high power output. Since isolation often
requires one additional transformer, the lowest cost (or highest power
per volume/weight) chargers are not isolated. But there is no reason not
to add isolation if you find it important in your design - just select
the correct topology.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email] Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of M. G.
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 4:40 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?


What would it take to make any charger isolated?
Mike

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

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Re: AC-76 and faster charger thoughts?

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by M. G.
M. G. wrote:
> What would it take to make any charger isolated?

It requires an isolation transformer.

You can use a big 60Hz transformer ahead of any charger to isolate it.
As noted, these tend to be rather big and heavy; on the order of 10 lbs
per kilowatt. New ones are expensive (cost of materials), but they can
often be found used at low prices.

As frequency goes up, the size and weight and cost of the transformer
goes down. Aircraft use 400 Hz power for exactly this reason. Switchmode
power supplies run at even higher frequencies, well up in the KHz range,
to go even further.

However, high frequency transformers are a lot harder to design and
build. When your only power source is 60 Hz AC, you also need extra
equipment to a) rectify it to DC, b) convert the DC to high frequency
AC, c) run it through the transformer for isolation, and d) turn the
high frequency AC output back into whatever voltage you need for
charging. Steps a) and d) are the only steps that are done in
conventional non-isolated chargers. Adding isolation can easily double
the cost of the charger.

--
The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to
the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock
swindlers than that very selfsame thing. Just as soon as a man gets
working on the secondary battery it brings out his latent capacity for
lying. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart, http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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