AMD FB1-4001 motor failure

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AMD FB1-4001 motor failure

Steve Clunn
On 5/14/2012 8:03 PM, Cruisin wrote:
> This reminds us why there are no popular production EV cars that use a DC
> motor or controller.
From: Lee Hart
I
>The present automakers are using AC motors because they have very little
experience in building EVs, and so tend to go with whatever seems
fashionable, or high tech, or whatever their competitors are using. The
decisions are more likely to be made by marketing and finance; not
engineering.<

I have run into 4 factory built ac drive EV's that I could not fix ,
but never had a dc series motor EV that wasn't fixable , most people
can be helped over the phone .


--Steve 772-971-0533
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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Re: AMD FB1-4001 motor failure

Cruisin
Sorry Steve, your comments are so off the wall and inacurate. When you have been in this business as long as I, you will understand the subject we are talking about. Most cheap low speed and chinese EV's were DC at first, when AC was made popular with the Curtis 1238 controller that controls half of the world using AC, they ALL went to AC even though it cost more. The advantages are numerous and too many to go into here. DC is cheaper and that is the MAIN reason most go for it. If that wasnt the case, why do the majority use chep controllers that are not woth the metal they are made of. My 2 cents with 44 years as a EV and Hybrid instructor and licensed conversion specialist.
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Re: AMD FB1-4001 motor failure

Lee Hart
Cruisin wrote:

> Sorry Steve, your comments are so off the wall and inacurate. When
> you have been in this business as long as I, you will understand the
> subject we are talking about. Most cheap low speed and chinese EV's
> were DC at first, when AC was made popular with the Curtis 1238
> controller that controls half of the world using AC, they ALL went to
> AC even though it cost more. The advantages are numerous and too many
> to go into here. DC is cheaper and that is the MAIN reason most go
> for it. If that wasnt the case, why do the majority use chep
> controllers that are not woth the metal they are made of. My 2 cents
> with 44 years as a EV and Hybrid instructor and licensed conversion
> specialist.

!?!?!

Cruisin, you seem to have considerably misunderstood Steve's point. He
simply said that in his experience, the AC EVs built by the major auto
companies were essentially non-repairable (except by replacing entire
assemblies). The DC EVs that used series motors were far simpler, and so
much easier to fix.

May I suggest that perhaps you are a bit out of touch with the vehicles
that are being built, driven, and discussed on this list?

What have you been doing for "44 years as an EV and hybrid instructor
and licensed conversion specialist?" The Toyota Prius and Honda Insight
didn't even come out until 2000; before that there were no highway
hybrid vehicles. Thus, no hybrid instructors. And, what exactly is a
"licensed conversion specialist"? There is no such thing in most states,
unless you mean licensed to do something other than EV conversions (like
a licensed automotive mechanic).

You sound as if you only became aware of EVs recently, and only know
about the EVs produced by the major auto companies. You talk as if the
only other EVs that exist are cheap toy scooters and Chinese electric
bicycles.

That ignores 100 years of mass produced, successful, reliable, efficient
EVs that have been produced; everything from railroad engines, trucks,
buses, industrial vehicles, personal movers, and on-the-road electric
cars. Virtually all of them used DC drive systems.

The Curtis 1238 has only been out a few years, and so far has a very
small market penetration. The large majority of Curtis controllers are
still *DC* motor controllers. Also, the 1238 is an industrial fork lift
controller; it's too small for anything but a very light low speed vehicle.

What do you feel the advantages of an AC drive system are? Efficiency?
Horsepower? Torque? RPM range? Regen? I suspect you'll find that both AC
and DC drives offer all of these features, and are just as capable when
priced the same.

The *intrinsic* differences between AC and DC drive systems are subtle
and of interest mainly to engineers and academics. But as a real-world
practical matter, AC drives are perceived as more glamorous and
higher-tech; thus they can command a higher price. DC drives tend to be
simpler, older, lower-tech; and thus are lower priced. But both do the job.

It's a bit like comparing gasoline engines to diesel engines. Each has
certain technical advantages or disadvantages, and each has tended to
migrate into certain market niches. Each has advocates that fervently
believe that their fuel choice is the best, and that the other fuel is
worthless junk. However, both fuels fundamentally do the same job, and
the average driver couldn't care less if his car burns gasoline or
diesel fuel.

And, which engine a customer gets is largely driven by marketing and
availability; not rationality. Rarely is the customer given any choice
in the matter.
--
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: AMD FB1-4001 motor failure

Dennis Miles
Lee, I have been working on and converting cars since 1975 but not in large
volume and in the present state of the art for major auto manufacturers, AC
is used because they have hyped it as something new, and yet in the 1980's
I was teaching industrial electricity and motor controlls and that included
3 ph ac motors and variable frequency drives allowing the motors ro run at
any speed withthe twist of a knob.so do not say it is new technology. The
main claim to fame is higher prices than the venerable series DC motor in
common use for 125 and more years. I feel your analysis was "Right on the
money" Dennis Miles

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:50 AM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Cruisin wrote:
> > Sorry Steve, your comments are so off the wall and inacurate. When
> > you have been in this business as long as I, you will understand the
> > subject we are talking about. Most cheap low speed and chinese EV's
> > were DC at first, when AC was made popular with the Curtis 1238
> > controller that controls half of the world using AC, they ALL went to
> > AC even though it cost more. The advantages are numerous and too many
> > to go into here. DC is cheaper and that is the MAIN reason most go
> > for it. If that wasnt the case, why do the majority use chep
> > controllers that are not woth the metal they are made of. My 2 cents
> > with 44 years as a EV and Hybrid instructor and licensed conversion
> > specialist.
>
> !?!?!
>
> Cruisin, you seem to have considerably misunderstood Steve's point. He
> simply said that in his experience, the AC EVs built by the major auto
> companies were essentially non-repairable (except by replacing entire
> assemblies). The DC EVs that used series motors were far simpler, and so
> much easier to fix.
>
> May I suggest that perhaps you are a bit out of touch with the vehicles
> that are being built, driven, and discussed on this list?
>
> What have you been doing for "44 years as an EV and hybrid instructor
> and licensed conversion specialist?" The Toyota Prius and Honda Insight
> didn't even come out until 2000; before that there were no highway
> hybrid vehicles. Thus, no hybrid instructors. And, what exactly is a
> "licensed conversion specialist"? There is no such thing in most states,
> unless you mean licensed to do something other than EV conversions (like
> a licensed automotive mechanic).
>
> You sound as if you only became aware of EVs recently, and only know
> about the EVs produced by the major auto companies. You talk as if the
> only other EVs that exist are cheap toy scooters and Chinese electric
> bicycles.
>
> That ignores 100 years of mass produced, successful, reliable, efficient
> EVs that have been produced; everything from railroad engines, trucks,
> buses, industrial vehicles, personal movers, and on-the-road electric
> cars. Virtually all of them used DC drive systems.
>
> The Curtis 1238 has only been out a few years, and so far has a very
> small market penetration. The large majority of Curtis controllers are
> still *DC* motor controllers. Also, the 1238 is an industrial fork lift
> controller; it's too small for anything but a very light low speed vehicle.
>
> What do you feel the advantages of an AC drive system are? Efficiency?
> Horsepower? Torque? RPM range? Regen? I suspect you'll find that both AC
> and DC drives offer all of these features, and are just as capable when
> priced the same.
>
> The *intrinsic* differences between AC and DC drive systems are subtle
> and of interest mainly to engineers and academics. But as a real-world
> practical matter, AC drives are perceived as more glamorous and
> higher-tech; thus they can command a higher price. DC drives tend to be
> simpler, older, lower-tech; and thus are lower priced. But both do the job.
>
> It's a bit like comparing gasoline engines to diesel engines. Each has
> certain technical advantages or disadvantages, and each has tended to
> migrate into certain market niches. Each has advocates that fervently
> believe that their fuel choice is the best, and that the other fuel is
> worthless junk. However, both fuels fundamentally do the same job, and
> the average driver couldn't care less if his car burns gasoline or
> diesel fuel.
>
> And, which engine a customer gets is largely driven by marketing and
> availability; not rationality. Rarely is the customer given any choice
> in the matter.
> --
> Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
> and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
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