Ac50 and hills?

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Ac50 and hills?

Mike Golub-2
Anyone have experience using the ac50 with hills??? We are thinking about us a ford ranger ac50 100volts 130amp hour calb

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Willmon
Did you ever run your truck on 100v ?  it would probably be like that. Only
not as good.  most definitely should keep the tyranny.
On Mar 24, 2012 12:57 PM, "Mike Golub" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Anyone have experience using the ac50 with hills??? We are thinking about
> us a ford ranger ac50 100volts 130amp hour calb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

harry henderson
In reply to this post by Mike Golub-2
i'm getting more power than i expected from my AC50, make sure you get the 650 amp version

harry

Albuquerque, NM
current bike:  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000


--- On Sat, 3/24/12, Mike Golub <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Mike Golub <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:56 PM
> Anyone have experience using the ac50
> with hills??? We are thinking about us a ford ranger ac50
> 100volts 130amp hour calb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
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> only.
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Cruisin
There are some program changes you can make that will help with the hills. And, make sure you install a water cooled heat exchanger under the 1238 or it will reduce the 650a to a lot less when it gets hot going up a hill, especially with a heavy vehicle. Mine never gets over 50c no matter how hard I push it. You may want to reconsider 130ah in favor of the 180ah, that will also help.
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Golub-2
In reply to this post by harry henderson
What is your pack amps hr?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2012, at 3:57 PM, harry henderson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> i'm getting more power than i expected from my AC50, make sure you get the 650 amp version
>
> harry
>
> Albuquerque, NM
> current bike:  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
> current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000
>
>
> --- On Sat, 3/24/12, Mike Golub <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Mike Golub <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:56 PM
>> Anyone have experience using the ac50
>> with hills??? We are thinking about us a ford ranger ac50
>> 100volts 130amp hour calb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Golub-2
In reply to this post by Cruisin
Can you specify a heat exchanger?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Cruisin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There are some program changes you can make that will help with the hills.
> And, make sure you install a water cooled heat exchanger under the 1238 or
> it will reduce the 650a to a lot less when it gets hot going up a hill,
> especially with a heavy vehicle. Mine never gets over 50c no matter how hard
> I push it. You may want to reconsider 130ah in favor of the 180ah, that will
> also help.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Ac50-and-hills-tp4502127p4502470.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

harry henderson
In reply to this post by Mike Golub-2
1056 lbs of lead, 23040 wh pack

harry

Albuquerque, NM
current bike:  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000


--- On Sat, 3/24/12, Mike Golub <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Mike Golub <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 7:04 PM
> What is your pack amps hr?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 24, 2012, at 3:57 PM, harry henderson <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > i'm getting more power than i expected from my AC50,
> make sure you get the 650 amp version
> >
> > harry
> >
> > Albuquerque, NM
> > current bike:  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
> > current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 3/24/12, Mike Golub <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Mike Golub <[hidden email]>
> >> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
> >> To: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:56 PM
> >> Anyone have experience using the ac50
> >> with hills??? We are thinking about us a ford
> ranger ac50
> >> 100volts 130amp hour calb
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in
> effect.
> >> | Please take those discussions elsewhere. 
> Thanks.
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> rejected.
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> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> Thanks.
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by Mike Golub-2
I don't have experience with the AC50, but 100V seems a little low for a
vehicle the size of a Ranger.  My del Sol has 144V and has adequate
performance with 300A draw from my 100ah Thundersky cells.  With 130 ah CALB
cells you might be able to pull 400A, but that might not be enough for the
Ranger.  I wonder if a higher voltage or larger cells would be a better fit.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Mike Golub
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 2:56 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>
> Anyone have experience using the ac50 with hills??? We are thinking about
> us a ford ranger ac50 100volts 130amp hour calb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Randy
We have converted 4 Rangers with AC50's and 300ahr Winston cells.
They work quite well and get about 100km range.
Not a rocket off the line but enough to keep up with traffic and 120kph
on the highway.
We have some pretty good hills to.

BFN
Randy

On 24/03/2012 7:32 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:

> I don't have experience with the AC50, but 100V seems a little low for a
> vehicle the size of a Ranger.  My del Sol has 144V and has adequate
> performance with 300A draw from my 100ah Thundersky cells.  With 130 ah CALB
> cells you might be able to pull 400A, but that might not be enough for the
> Ranger.  I wonder if a higher voltage or larger cells would be a better fit.
>
> Mike
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Golub
>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 2:56 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>>
>> Anyone have experience using the ac50 with hills??? We are thinking about
>> us a ford ranger ac50 100volts 130amp hour calb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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> _______________________________________________
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>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4892 - Release Date: 03/24/12
>
>

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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Nickerson
What voltage are the Rangers?  I think you might get more amps out of the
300 ah Winstons than the 130 ah CALB the original poster mentioned.  I'm not
sure the 130 ah CALB would provide enough current to max out the controller.
If the 300ah Winstons were running a decent voltage, they should be able to
provide all the current the AC50 could handle.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Randy Holmquist
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:18 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>
> We have converted 4 Rangers with AC50's and 300ahr Winston cells.
> They work quite well and get about 100km range.
> Not a rocket off the line but enough to keep up with traffic and 120kph on
> the highway.
> We have some pretty good hills to.
>
> BFN
> Randy
>
> On 24/03/2012 7:32 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:
> > I don't have experience with the AC50, but 100V seems a little low for
> > a vehicle the size of a Ranger.  My del Sol has 144V and has adequate
> > performance with 300A draw from my 100ah Thundersky cells.  With 130
> > ah CALB cells you might be able to pull 400A, but that might not be
> > enough for the Ranger.  I wonder if a higher voltage or larger cells
would be

> a better fit.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> >> Behalf Of Mike Golub
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 2:56 PM
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
> >>
> >> Anyone have experience using the ac50 with hills??? We are thinking
> >> about us a ford ranger ac50 100volts 130amp hour calb
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> >> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> >> |
> >> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> >
>
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Golub-2
I was thinking about Maxing the voltage. it tops out at about 105 volts... Yeah using a pack of CALB 130 amp hr batteries won't be able to do more than 520 amps, yet the controller can do 650 amps. But do you need more than 50kW?
I think the Curtis 1238 can be programmed to allow less then 650 amps?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2012, at 10:38 PM, "Mike Nickerson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What voltage are the Rangers?  I think you might get more amps out of the
> 300 ah Winstons than the 130 ah CALB the original poster mentioned.  I'm not
> sure the 130 ah CALB would provide enough current to max out the controller.
> If the 300ah Winstons were running a decent voltage, they should be able to
> provide all the current the AC50 could handle.
>
> Mike
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Randy Holmquist
>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:18 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>>
>> We have converted 4 Rangers with AC50's and 300ahr Winston cells.
>> They work quite well and get about 100km range.
>> Not a rocket off the line but enough to keep up with traffic and 120kph on
>> the highway.
>> We have some pretty good hills to.
>>
>> BFN
>> Randy
>>
>> On 24/03/2012 7:32 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:
>>> I don't have experience with the AC50, but 100V seems a little low for
>>> a vehicle the size of a Ranger.  My del Sol has 144V and has adequate
>>> performance with 300A draw from my 100ah Thundersky cells.  With 130
>>> ah CALB cells you might be able to pull 400A, but that might not be
>>> enough for the Ranger.  I wonder if a higher voltage or larger cells
> would be
>> a better fit.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>>>> Behalf Of Mike Golub
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 2:56 PM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have experience using the ac50 with hills??? We are thinking
>>>> about us a ford ranger ac50 100volts 130amp hour calb
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>>>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>>>> |
>>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4892 - Release Date:
>>> 03/24/12
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Nickerson
I don't know if you need more than 50 kW.  My del Sol uses about 50+ kW
(300A at 140V) to accelerate at a good pace.  This lets me pull out
confidently, but is by no means as fast as some drivers on the road would
like to accelerate.  I'm guessing 0-60 times around 13-14 seconds or so.
That's on a car that weighs 2550 pounds, after conversion.  (Kind of heavy
for its size, but the del Sol curb weight was 2300 pounds originally.)

I'm guessing the Ranger pickup will be somewhat heavier, so performance will
be less.  While cruising, the del Sol needs about 14 kW to hold 60 mph.
Again, I would expect the Ranger to need more.  

The question is whether that performance is OK.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Mike Golub
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 12:59 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>
> I was thinking about Maxing the voltage. it tops out at about 105 volts...
Yeah
> using a pack of CALB 130 amp hr batteries won't be able to do more than
520

> amps, yet the controller can do 650 amps. But do you need more than 50kW?
> I think the Curtis 1238 can be programmed to allow less then 650 amps?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 24, 2012, at 10:38 PM, "Mike Nickerson"
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > What voltage are the Rangers?  I think you might get more amps out of
> > the
> > 300 ah Winstons than the 130 ah CALB the original poster mentioned.
> > I'm not sure the 130 ah CALB would provide enough current to max out the
> controller.
> > If the 300ah Winstons were running a decent voltage, they should be
> > able to provide all the current the AC50 could handle.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> >> Behalf Of Randy Holmquist
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:18 PM
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
> >>
> >> We have converted 4 Rangers with AC50's and 300ahr Winston cells.
> >> They work quite well and get about 100km range.
> >> Not a rocket off the line but enough to keep up with traffic and
> >> 120kph on the highway.
> >> We have some pretty good hills to.
> >>
> >> BFN
> >> Randy
> >>
> >> On 24/03/2012 7:32 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:
> >>> I don't have experience with the AC50, but 100V seems a little low
> >>> for a vehicle the size of a Ranger.  My del Sol has 144V and has
> >>> adequate performance with 300A draw from my 100ah Thundersky cells.
> >>> With 130 ah CALB cells you might be able to pull 400A, but that
> >>> might not be enough for the Ranger.  I wonder if a higher voltage or
> >>> larger cells
> > would be
> >> a better fit.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> >>>> On Behalf Of Mike Golub
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 2:56 PM
> >>>> To: [hidden email]
> >>>> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyone have experience using the ac50 with hills??? We are thinking
> >>>> about us a ford ranger ac50 100volts 130amp hour calb
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> >>>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> >>>> |
> >>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> >>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----
> >>> No virus found in this message.
> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4892 - Release Date:
> >>> 03/24/12
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
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> >
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

tomw
In reply to this post by Mike Golub-2
The AC50 with 1238-7601 650A controller has peak torque of about 108 ft-lb.  The max voltage of the controller is 130V.  A number of us are using 36 cells for 115V nominal pack voltage.  I think a 115V pack will sag to somewhere around 100V at 650A (my 180Ah cells sag to about 105V at 550A), maybe less with 130Ah cells.  That would give 108 ft-lb out to about 3500 rpm, so about 53-54 kW or about 72 H.P. peak shaft power.  Adequate to take you up fairly steep grades, with an LiFePO4 pack.  You will be pushing the 130Ah cells to their 5C limit drawing the full 650A, so I wouldn't be surprised if it decreases their lifetime somewhat if it is done regularly.
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Randy
In reply to this post by Mike Nickerson
32 cells.
The 130's would have pretty low range, something like 25 miles.
The ones we did are all with municipal fleets so they wanted as much
range as possible.


BFN
Randy

On 24/03/2012 11:38 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:

> What voltage are the Rangers?  I think you might get more amps out of the
> 300 ah Winstons than the 130 ah CALB the original poster mentioned.  I'm not
> sure the 130 ah CALB would provide enough current to max out the controller.
> If the 300ah Winstons were running a decent voltage, they should be able to
> provide all the current the AC50 could handle.
>
> Mike
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Randy Holmquist
>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:18 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>>
>> We have converted 4 Rangers with AC50's and 300ahr Winston cells.
>> They work quite well and get about 100km range.
>> Not a rocket off the line but enough to keep up with traffic and 120kph on
>> the highway.
>> We have some pretty good hills to.
>>
>> BFN
>> Randy
>>
>> On 24/03/2012 7:32 PM, Mike Nickerson wrote:
>>> I don't have experience with the AC50, but 100V seems a little low for
>>> a vehicle the size of a Ranger.  My del Sol has 144V and has adequate
>>> performance with 300A draw from my 100ah Thundersky cells.  With 130
>>> ah CALB cells you might be able to pull 400A, but that might not be
>>> enough for the Ranger.  I wonder if a higher voltage or larger cells
> would be
>> a better fit.
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>>>> Behalf Of Mike Golub
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 2:56 PM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have experience using the ac50 with hills??? We are thinking
>>>> about us a ford ranger ac50 100volts 130amp hour calb
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>>>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>>>> |
>>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>>>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>>>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>>> |
>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4892 - Release Date:
>>> 03/24/12
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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> |
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>
>
> -----
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> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4892 - Release Date: 03/24/12
>
>

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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Golub-2
In reply to this post by tomw
Does it indeed have maximum voltage of 130 nominal or fully charged?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 25, 2012, at 6:02 AM, tomw <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The AC50 with 1238-7601 650A controller has peak torque of about 108 ft-lb.
> The max voltage of the controller is 130V.  A number of us are using 36
> cells for 115V nominal pack voltage.  I think a 115V pack will sag to
> somewhere around 100V at 650A (my 180Ah cells sag to about 105V at 550A),
> maybe less with 130Ah cells.  That would give 108 ft-lb out to about 3500
> rpm, so about 53-54 kW or about 72 H.P. peak shaft power.  Adequate to take
> you up fairly steep grades, with an LiFePO4 pack.  You will be pushing the
> 130Ah cells to their 5C limit drawing the full 650A, so I wouldn't be
> surprised if it decreases their lifetime somewhat if it is done regularly.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Ac50-and-hills-tp4502127p4503194.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Rick Beebe
On the Swallow project Jack Rickard did he used 38 cells. They charge to
about 133 volts but quickly drop below 130 after the charge is done. He
feels the controller can handle that. YMMV.

--Rick

On 3/25/2012 1:39 PM, Mike Golub wrote:

> Does it indeed have maximum voltage of 130 nominal or fully charged?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 6:02 AM, tomw<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> The AC50 with 1238-7601 650A controller has peak torque of about 108 ft-lb.
>> The max voltage of the controller is 130V.  A number of us are using 36
>> cells for 115V nominal pack voltage.  I think a 115V pack will sag to
>> somewhere around 100V at 650A (my 180Ah cells sag to about 105V at 550A),
>> maybe less with 130Ah cells.  That would give 108 ft-lb out to about 3500
>> rpm, so about 53-54 kW or about 72 H.P. peak shaft power.  Adequate to take
>> you up fairly steep grades, with an LiFePO4 pack.  You will be pushing the
>> 130Ah cells to their 5C limit drawing the full 650A, so I wouldn't be
>> surprised if it decreases their lifetime somewhat if it is done regularly.

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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Mike Golub-2
133/38 = 3.5 volts

Is this a new charging level for lifepo4

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 25, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Rick Beebe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On the Swallow project Jack Rickard did he used 38 cells. They charge to
> about 133 volts but quickly drop below 130 after the charge is done. He
> feels the controller can handle that. YMMV.
>
> --Rick
>
> On 3/25/2012 1:39 PM, Mike Golub wrote:
>> Does it indeed have maximum voltage of 130 nominal or fully charged?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 6:02 AM, tomw<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> The AC50 with 1238-7601 650A controller has peak torque of about 108 ft-lb.
>>> The max voltage of the controller is 130V.  A number of us are using 36
>>> cells for 115V nominal pack voltage.  I think a 115V pack will sag to
>>> somewhere around 100V at 650A (my 180Ah cells sag to about 105V at 550A),
>>> maybe less with 130Ah cells.  That would give 108 ft-lb out to about 3500
>>> rpm, so about 53-54 kW or about 72 H.P. peak shaft power.  Adequate to take
>>> you up fairly steep grades, with an LiFePO4 pack.  You will be pushing the
>>> 130Ah cells to their 5C limit drawing the full 650A, so I wouldn't be
>>> surprised if it decreases their lifetime somewhat if it is done regularly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

David Nelson-5
It depends on your ending current and if you are after a 100%SOC
charge. The procedure is to charge to 3.6-3.65V and end when the
current tapers to 0.05C. Many people ignore the ending current part.
Charging to over 3.4V with a low enough ending current can/will
overcharge the cells. Of course, the lower the ending voltage the
lower the ending current can be without overcharging the cells
provided that the ending current is at least 3.4V. At 3.4V it will
take a very long time to reach 100%SOC. I don't recall what the ending
current is that Jack is using when charging to 3.5vpc but I'm sure
that he is slightly undercharging the cells. This has the benefit of
prolonging their calendar life. I charge to 3.465vpc with an ending
current around 100mA, mostly because my charger doesn't have the
option to terminate charge based on voltage and current so it just
tapers back until the timer shuts it off. After a couple hours my
cells rest slightly below 3.4V, usually 3.38-3.39vpc indicating that I
didn't overcharge them. If they rest over 3.4V after sitting unloaded
for a few hours then they were overcharged.

HTH,

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Mike Golub <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 133/38 = 3.5 volts
>
> Is this a new charging level for lifepo4
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Rick Beebe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On the Swallow project Jack Rickard did he used 38 cells. They charge to
>> about 133 volts but quickly drop below 130 after the charge is done. He
>> feels the controller can handle that. YMMV.
>>
>> --Rick
>>
>> On 3/25/2012 1:39 PM, Mike Golub wrote:
>>> Does it indeed have maximum voltage of 130 nominal or fully charged?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 6:02 AM, tomw<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The AC50 with 1238-7601 650A controller has peak torque of about 108 ft-lb.
>>>> The max voltage of the controller is 130V.  A number of us are using 36
>>>> cells for 115V nominal pack voltage.  I think a 115V pack will sag to
>>>> somewhere around 100V at 650A (my 180Ah cells sag to about 105V at 550A),
>>>> maybe less with 130Ah cells.  That would give 108 ft-lb out to about 3500
>>>> rpm, so about 53-54 kW or about 72 H.P. peak shaft power.  Adequate to take
>>>> you up fairly steep grades, with an LiFePO4 pack.  You will be pushing the
>>>> 130Ah cells to their 5C limit drawing the full 650A, so I wouldn't be
>>>> surprised if it decreases their lifetime somewhat if it is done regularly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
> _______________________________________________
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--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com

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LiFePO4 charging procedure, was: Ac50 and hills?

Cor van de Water
David,

You explained this previously to Corbin and I saved that email
as one of my "to go to" references on healthy charging of
LiFePO4 cells. I guess that in a standby application the BMS
must take care to throttle pack voltage up/down based on the
charging procedure, what I mean is that the incoming DC bus to
the pack should only be raised above 3.4V (up to 3.6V) per cell
after a power loss and energy taken from the cells, until the
battery current drops to the ending current of .05C (5% of
capacity so on a 300Ah pack this is 15A) and then make sure
that the DC bus drops below 3.4V per cell standby voltage that
allows the system to be continuously pumping DC from various
sources into the system and the output (DC or inverter) to
continously draw from a battery backed DC bus without
ruining the LiFePO4 cells by cooking them to death.
Or would it be better to maintain a lower SoC and not go for
a normal full charge, but terminate before reaching .05C?

If going for full charge, what voltage below 3.4V would be
best to use after terminating the charging procedure?
3.3V? 3.35V?

BTW, one sentence in your explanation contains an error,
but it is clear from the context:
> provided that the ending current is at least 3.4V.
This of course must be: ending voltage.

Thanks for the valuable data, I am sure this helps many
to keep their prized LiFePO4 pack in shape much longer!

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Nelson
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:58 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?

It depends on your ending current and if you are after a 100%SOC charge. The procedure is to charge to 3.6-3.65V and end when the current tapers to 0.05C. Many people ignore the ending current part.
Charging to over 3.4V with a low enough ending current can/will overcharge the cells. Of course, the lower the ending voltage the lower the ending current can be without overcharging the cells provided that the ending current is at least 3.4V. At 3.4V it will take a very long time to reach 100%SOC. I don't recall what the ending current is that Jack is using when charging to 3.5vpc but I'm sure that he is slightly undercharging the cells. This has the benefit of prolonging their calendar life. I charge to 3.465vpc with an ending current around 100mA, mostly because my charger doesn't have the option to terminate charge based on voltage and current so it just tapers back until the timer shuts it off. After a couple hours my cells rest slightly below 3.4V, usually 3.38-3.39vpc indicating that I didn't overcharge them. If they rest over 3.4V after sitting unloaded for a few hours then they were overcharged.

HTH,

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Mike Golub <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 133/38 = 3.5 volts
>
> Is this a new charging level for lifepo4
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Rick Beebe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On the Swallow project Jack Rickard did he used 38 cells. They charge
>> to about 133 volts but quickly drop below 130 after the charge is
>> done. He feels the controller can handle that. YMMV.
>>
>> --Rick
>>
>> On 3/25/2012 1:39 PM, Mike Golub wrote:
>>> Does it indeed have maximum voltage of 130 nominal or fully charged?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 6:02 AM, tomw<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The AC50 with 1238-7601 650A controller has peak torque of about 108 ft-lb.
>>>> The max voltage of the controller is 130V.  A number of us are
>>>> using 36 cells for 115V nominal pack voltage.  I think a 115V pack
>>>> will sag to somewhere around 100V at 650A (my 180Ah cells sag to
>>>> about 105V at 550A), maybe less with 130Ah cells.  That would give
>>>> 108 ft-lb out to about 3500 rpm, so about 53-54 kW or about 72 H.P.
>>>> peak shaft power.  Adequate to take you up fairly steep grades,
>>>> with an LiFePO4 pack.  You will be pushing the 130Ah cells to their
>>>> 5C limit drawing the full 650A, so I wouldn't be surprised if it decreases their lifetime somewhat if it is done regularly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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>
> _______________________________________________
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--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
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Re: Ac50 and hills?

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Rick Beebe
I guess he will find out if the controller can indeed
take more than 130V if that is the spec.
I know (he is still on this list) an EV'er with a 192V
AGM pack who used a 110V Iota as DC/DC. He found that
the Iota could take the abuse as long as he meticiously
unplugged the Iota from the pack (he had a wall type socket
connected to his pack for the Iota power cord) before
every charge.
One day he forgot that and of course he came back to the
EV with a blown DC/DC.
I am still surprised to see that the Iota which probably
has no more than 200V caps survived so long on the 192V
nominal pack that would easily be over 208V (13V per
battery) after a charge, but I think that the saving
grace for a long time was that this overvoltage would
only happen for a brief period, after unplugging the pack
he usually immediately drove the car, so within a minute
the voltage would sag to around 200V at idle (12.5V per battery)
but of course the charging event caused up to 240V on the
200V caps for a long period and that was the end of the Iota.

I hope for Jack that he got approval from the manufacturer
(or looked inside the controller) to verify the rating on
the parts to handle 133V. Time will tell, but as long as
the voltage transgression is only brief and during a
period of non use of the controller then this may be
perfectly fine.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Rick Beebe
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:38 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ac50 and hills?

On the Swallow project Jack Rickard did he used 38 cells. They charge to
about 133 volts but quickly drop below 130 after the charge is done. He
feels the controller can handle that. YMMV.

--Rick

On 3/25/2012 1:39 PM, Mike Golub wrote:
> Does it indeed have maximum voltage of 130 nominal or fully charged?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 6:02 AM, tomw<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> The AC50 with 1238-7601 650A controller has peak torque of about 108
ft-lb.
>> The max voltage of the controller is 130V.  A number of us are using
>> 36 cells for 115V nominal pack voltage.  I think a 115V pack will sag

>> to somewhere around 100V at 650A (my 180Ah cells sag to about 105V at

>> 550A), maybe less with 130Ah cells.  That would give 108 ft-lb out to

>> about 3500 rpm, so about 53-54 kW or about 72 H.P. peak shaft power.

>> Adequate to take you up fairly steep grades, with an LiFePO4 pack.  
>> You will be pushing the 130Ah cells to their 5C limit drawing the
>> full 650A, so I wouldn't be surprised if it decreases their lifetime
somewhat if it is done regularly.

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