Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
If you have a conversion EV, please make sure that when your charger is
plugged in something disables your motor/controller so that the EV can't
drive away.

This is especially important if you are using a twistlock, or J1772
connector, but even pulling out a NEMA 5-15 by the cable isn't optimal....

There is a reason all commercial EV's have this interlock, and it's the
top photo of my blog post:


https://www.summet.com/blog/2018/01/07/new-charging-inlet-drive-away-protection/

(a hole left by pulling a J1772 inlet out of my truck....)

On the plus side, I took this "opportunity" to upgrade my charging inlet
cover so now it slides to the side instead of lifting to the top (a
video of the new cover in action is at the end of my blog post.

Jay
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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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Hi Jay, nice work.  I have a couple of times been saved by the drive-a-way interlock so yet I too would recommend it for anyone.

Question though, what’s on the other end of your 110v opportunity charge cable?  It looks like a male, male cable and that is pretty dangerous.  I would have put a 110v male socket on the car and made sure it was never energized by the J1772 socket or otherwise.

Regards,
Lawrence Harris
[hidden email]




> On Jan 9, 2018, at 19:11, Jay Summet via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you have a conversion EV, please make sure that when your charger is plugged in something disables your motor/controller so that the EV can't drive away.
>
> This is especially important if you are using a twistlock, or J1772 connector, but even pulling out a NEMA 5-15 by the cable isn't optimal....
>
> There is a reason all commercial EV's have this interlock, and it's the top photo of my blog post:
>
>
> https://www.summet.com/blog/2018/01/07/new-charging-inlet-drive-away-protection/
>
> (a hole left by pulling a J1772 inlet out of my truck....)
>
> On the plus side, I took this "opportunity" to upgrade my charging inlet cover so now it slides to the side instead of lifting to the top (a video of the new cover in action is at the end of my blog post.
>
> Jay
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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I have a standard (RV/boat style) male NEMA 5-15 plug mounted in the air
dam on the truck, so a standard extension cable plugs into it.

The 5-15 male plug is isolated from the J1772 plug by a relay. When 120
volts is seen by the 5-15 plug, the relay switches the chargers over
from the J1772 plug to the 5-15 plug (and limits the amp draw to 12).

So 240 volts from the J1772 can never reach the 5-15, and 120 volts from
the 5-15 can never reach the J1772 plug.  It also means that if somebody
plugs in both J1772 AND an extension cord the 5-15 has priority, but
that hasn't been an issue.


Jay

On 01/09/2018 10:29 PM, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote:

> Hi Jay, nice work.  I have a couple of times been saved by the drive-a-way interlock so yet I too would recommend it for anyone.
>
> Question though, what’s on the other end of your 110v opportunity charge cable?  It looks like a male, male cable and that is pretty dangerous.  I would have put a 110v male socket on the car and made sure it was never energized by the J1772 socket or otherwise.
>
> Regards,
> Lawrence Harris
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 19:11, Jay Summet via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> If you have a conversion EV, please make sure that when your charger is plugged in something disables your motor/controller so that the EV can't drive away.
>>
>> This is especially important if you are using a twistlock, or J1772 connector, but even pulling out a NEMA 5-15 by the cable isn't optimal....
>>
>> There is a reason all commercial EV's have this interlock, and it's the top photo of my blog post:
>>
>>
>> https://www.summet.com/blog/2018/01/07/new-charging-inlet-drive-away-protection/
>>
>> (a hole left by pulling a J1772 inlet out of my truck....)
>>
>> On the plus side, I took this "opportunity" to upgrade my charging inlet cover so now it slides to the side instead of lifting to the top (a video of the new cover in action is at the end of my blog post.
>>
>> Jay
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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I have never understood why the NEC _requires_ an EV charging plug be
"locking".
It makes no sense.

If you drive away (or the vehicle somehow rolls, is towed, or moves
away) the plug should simply come out.

As it is now, the locking plug won't give, so the cord breaks, or worse,
the charger rips from the wall, damaging the fixed wiring.

The plug should not be _required_ to lock into place. It would be far
safer to simply have the plug come out when the vehicle moves and the
cord is strained.

Bill D.


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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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I've had this discussion before and it someone said that the reason was basicly
for the Proximity switch. So that when the Latch on the plug was pushed it would
signal the contactor in the EV to open and stop the current flow so that there
would not be a hot disconnect.

I think it was also so that there would be a positive connection. I've
encountered quite a few people who have bought my J1772 Extension and haven't
fully plugged it in so that the latch would engage and send the 150 ohm signal
to the EV. With the latch not engaged the 480 ohm, do not charge signal is sent
to the charger in the EV.

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2018 9:42 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Bill Dube
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another recommendation for a drive way protection
circuit....
>
> I have never understood why the NEC _requires_ an EV charging plug be
"locking".
> It makes no sense.
>
> If you drive away (or the vehicle somehow rolls, is towed, or moves
> away) the plug should simply come out.
>
> As it is now, the locking plug won't give, so the cord breaks, or worse, the
charger rips from
> the wall, damaging the fixed wiring.
>
> The plug should not be _required_ to lock into place. It would be far safer to
simply have the

> plug come out when the vehicle moves and the cord is strained.
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com


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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Ok great I’ll have to polish my glasses. It looked like a female receptical when it watched it. Good to know.  

Lawrence

> On Jan 9, 2018, at 20:42, Bill Dube via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have never understood why the NEC _requires_ an EV charging plug be "locking".
> It makes no sense.
>
> If you drive away (or the vehicle somehow rolls, is towed, or moves away) the plug should simply come out.
>
> As it is now, the locking plug won't give, so the cord breaks, or worse, the charger rips from the wall, damaging the fixed wiring.
>
> The plug should not be _required_ to lock into place. It would be far safer to simply have the plug come out when the vehicle moves and the cord is strained.
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On Tue Jan 09 19:11:21 PST 2018 [hidden email] said:
>There is a reason all commercial EV's have this interlock, and it's the
>top photo of my blog post:
>
>https://www.summet.com/blog/2018/01/07/new-charging-inlet-drive-away-protection/

My J1772 stayed plugged into the truck, luckily my cable had a set of Anderson connectors in the middle so I could change plugs.
So all that happened was I dragged the cable on the pavement for 8 miles....  (only removed the outer layer of insulation.)
Since then, I fixed the charging lock-out switch.


--

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
The lock is to prevent arching when you disconnect

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 9, 2018, at 10:42 PM, Bill Dube via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have never understood why the NEC _requires_ an EV charging plug be "locking".
> It makes no sense.
>
> If you drive away (or the vehicle somehow rolls, is towed, or moves away) the plug should simply come out.
>
> As it is now, the locking plug won't give, so the cord breaks, or worse, the charger rips from the wall, damaging the fixed wiring.
>
> The plug should not be _required_ to lock into place. It would be far safer to simply have the plug come out when the vehicle moves and the cord is strained.
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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I think the lock is useful. The cable is heavy and, in some situations,
might pull itself out. Or might jiggle loose if someone steps on the
cable.

The electrical interconnect could be solved without a lock. Just have
the signal pin be a bit shorter than the main conductor pins so that, if
not plugged all the way in, the signal drops.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "paul dove via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "paul dove" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 10-Jan-18 4:13:41 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another recommendation for a drive way protection
circuit....

>The lock is to prevent arching when you disconnect
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>>On Jan 9, 2018, at 10:42 PM, Bill Dube via EV <[hidden email]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>I have never understood why the NEC _requires_ an EV charging plug be
>>"locking".
>>It makes no sense.
>>
>>If you drive away (or the vehicle somehow rolls, is towed, or moves
>>away) the plug should simply come out.
>>
>>As it is now, the locking plug won't give, so the cord breaks, or
>>worse, the charger rips from the wall, damaging the fixed wiring.
>>
>>The plug should not be _required_ to lock into place. It would be far
>>safer to simply have the plug come out when the vehicle moves and the
>>cord is strained.
>>
>>Bill D.
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>

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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I've driven off with cars that have battery tenders installed and plugs
not visible.  Bad scene.

Here is what I did for my EV (see the second picture) so I couldn't
ignore the plug:
http://cruzware.com/peter/blog/?p=115

Cheers, Peter

On 1/10/18 4:13 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:

> The lock is to prevent arching when you disconnect
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 10:42 PM, Bill Dube via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have never understood why the NEC _requires_ an EV charging plug be "locking".
>> It makes no sense.
>>
>> If you drive away (or the vehicle somehow rolls, is towed, or moves away) the plug should simply come out.
>>
>> As it is now, the locking plug won't give, so the cord breaks, or worse, the charger rips from the wall, damaging the fixed wiring.
>>
>> The plug should not be _required_ to lock into place. It would be far safer to simply have the plug come out when the vehicle moves and the cord is strained.
>>
>> Bill D.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
> I've driven off with cars that have battery tenders installed and plugs
> not visible.  Bad scene.

I've always arranged my charging connector so if/when I drive off, it
simply unplugs itself. No damage done.

I almost always use 120vac charging. The charger is in the car. Arcing
is only a minor issue with AC; arcs automatically extinguish 120 times a
second (at every zero-crossing). Since virtually every appliance every
consumer owns works like this, AC receptacles are designed to tolerate
occasional arcing if someone plugs or unplugs something "live".

For instance, my LeCar EV has its charging connector on the front
grille. I drive into the garage nose-first, because that's where the
charger is. The door to the house is on the right, so I have to walk in
front of the car anyway to get in or out. That makes it easy and almost
automatic to plug it in when I arrive home, or unplug it when I leave.
Even if I forget, it just unplugs itself as I back out.
--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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The Skoda Elmo pickup had a simple system.

The charge cable was captive to the vehicle and stored in a
compartment behind what was the grill. A socket was fitted in the
compartment and plugging the cable in completed a circuit via the
earth pin that operated an interlock relay. This also meant that the
integrity of the earth connection in the charging cable was verified
every time the vehicle was driven.

On 11 January 2018 at 06:31, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
>>
>> I've driven off with cars that have battery tenders installed and plugs
>> not visible.  Bad scene.
>
>
> I've always arranged my charging connector so if/when I drive off, it simply
> unplugs itself. No damage done.
>
> I almost always use 120vac charging. The charger is in the car. Arcing is
> only a minor issue with AC; arcs automatically extinguish 120 times a second
> (at every zero-crossing). Since virtually every appliance every consumer
> owns works like this, AC receptacles are designed to tolerate occasional
> arcing if someone plugs or unplugs something "live".
>
> For instance, my LeCar EV has its charging connector on the front grille. I
> drive into the garage nose-first, because that's where the charger is. The
> door to the house is on the right, so I have to walk in front of the car
> anyway to get in or out. That makes it easy and almost automatic to plug it
> in when I arrive home, or unplug it when I leave. Even if I forget, it just
> unplugs itself as I back out.
> --
> Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
> our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
> and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
Paul Compton
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel)
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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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Mine is behind the license plate and uses a standard door/window switch
from an old store alarm system. Just a magnet on the plate and a reed relay
that switches when the plate is latched closed. Reed relay grounds the
interlock relay, while the key switch supplies 12V to the other side of
it's coil.

I do like the slide to the side plate, I may have to think about doing that.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 2:59 AM, Paul Compton via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> The Skoda Elmo pickup had a simple system.
>
> The charge cable was captive to the vehicle and stored in a
> compartment behind what was the grill. A socket was fitted in the
> compartment and plugging the cable in completed a circuit via the
> earth pin that operated an interlock relay. This also meant that the
> integrity of the earth connection in the charging cable was verified
> every time the vehicle was driven.
>
> On 11 January 2018 at 06:31, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
> >>
> >> I've driven off with cars that have battery tenders installed and plugs
> >> not visible.  Bad scene.
> >
> >
> > I've always arranged my charging connector so if/when I drive off, it
> simply
> > unplugs itself. No damage done.
> >
> > I almost always use 120vac charging. The charger is in the car. Arcing is
> > only a minor issue with AC; arcs automatically extinguish 120 times a
> second
> > (at every zero-crossing). Since virtually every appliance every consumer
> > owns works like this, AC receptacles are designed to tolerate occasional
> > arcing if someone plugs or unplugs something "live".
> >
> > For instance, my LeCar EV has its charging connector on the front
> grille. I
> > drive into the garage nose-first, because that's where the charger is.
> The
> > door to the house is on the right, so I have to walk in front of the car
> > anyway to get in or out. That makes it easy and almost automatic to plug
> it
> > in when I arrive home, or unplug it when I leave. Even if I forget, it
> just
> > unplugs itself as I back out.
> > --
> > Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
> > our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
> > and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
> > --
> > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Compton
> www.morini-mania.co.uk
> www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel)
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

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On 01/12/2018 05:06 PM, Mike Scott via EV wrote:
> Mine is behind the license plate and uses a standard door/window switch
> from an old store alarm system. Just a magnet on the plate and a reed relay
> that switches when the plate is latched closed. Reed relay grounds the
> interlock relay, while the key switch supplies 12V to the other side of
> it's coil.
>

This has the advantage of forcing you to close the plate as well as
unplugging....one day I drove around with my plate slid to the side
after my wife switched over the plug to her Leaf.


> I do like the slide to the side plate, I may have to think about doing that.

In general, the license plate area is just too low for a charging plug.
The Leaf's charging port door location (and slight upward angle) is much
nicer.


I would have used the S-10's existing gas filler opening on the side of
the bed by the drivers door, except that my chargers are right up in the
front of the engine bay, and due to my tilting bed the length and path
of the cable would have been ridiculous. And the Chevy emblem in the
middle of the grill is too small to hide a J1772 inlet, although I gave
some serious thoughts to just replacing it with an exposed inlet. My
original inlet was HV orange colored, so I decided against it....


I had initially planned on having the license plate hinge on the bottom,
so it would "fold down", but the bracket I bought only swung 90 degrees,
and  the plate intersected with the J1772 cord as it exiting the gun. So
I had to put the hinge on the top, which blocked the view of my charging
port quite well.

If you are going to use the license plate area, sliding (or swinging) to
the side is about the best possible option. I still have to bend over to
insert plugs and adjust my control knob, but at least I don't have to
duck my head under the plate to see what I'm doing any more.

Jay
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