Aptera not vaporware after all

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Aptera not vaporware after all

john fisher-4
video of BEV aptera on road and under construction.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html

Who said Pop Mech was a silly rag? well I did....

quite good video of suspension and a look at motor and swingarm.

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Danny Miller-2
Neat... how many states (if any?) actually allow rearview cameras instead of mirrors?
And the 3-wheeled configuration?

Not trying to shoot it down or anything, but there's a lot of laws to fix first.

It looks like it could safely reenter the Earth's atmosphere from space all on its own.

Danny

---- John Fisher <[hidden email]> wrote:

> video of BEV aptera on road and under construction.
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html
>
> Who said Pop Mech was a silly rag? well I did....
>
> quite good video of suspension and a look at motor and swingarm.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

David Nelson-5
In many states the 3-wheeled configuration with two front wheels and
one rear drive wheel classifies it as a motorcycle. I'm sure there is
a weight limit too. I'm in Washington state and my Gizmo was made in
Oregon. I think that is also why there is no place for a front license
plate. A motorcycle doesn't require one. My Gizmo is probably about
half the weight of the Aptera.


On Dec 22, 2007 3:05 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Neat... how many states (if any?) actually allow rearview cameras instead of mirrors?
> And the 3-wheeled configuration?
>
> Not trying to shoot it down or anything, but there's a lot of laws to fix first.
>
> It looks like it could safely reenter the Earth's atmosphere from space all on its own.
>
> Danny
>
>
> ---- John Fisher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > video of BEV aptera on road and under construction.
> > http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html
> >
> > Who said Pop Mech was a silly rag? well I did....
> >
> > quite good video of suspension and a look at motor and swingarm.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
David D. Nelson

http://evalbum.com/1328

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Mark Dutko
In reply to this post by Danny Miller-2
Sparrows are MC's in CA, I would guess the Aptera is in the same  
weight and classification.


On Dec 22, 2007, at 4:26 PM, David Nelson wrote:

> In many states the 3-wheeled configuration with two front wheels and
> one rear drive wheel classifies it as a motorcycle. I'm sure there is
> a weight limit too. I'm in Washington state and my Gizmo was made in
> Oregon. I think that is also why there is no place for a front license
> plate. A motorcycle doesn't require one. My Gizmo is probably about
> half the weight of the Aptera.
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2007 3:05 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Neat... how many states (if any?) actually allow rearview cameras  
>> instead of mirrors?
>> And the 3-wheeled configuration?
>>
>> Not trying to shoot it down or anything, but there's a lot of laws  
>> to fix first.
>>
>> It looks like it could safely reenter the Earth's atmosphere from  
>> space all on its own.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>>
>> ---- John Fisher <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> video of BEV aptera on road and under construction.
>>> http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html
>>>
>>> Who said Pop Mech was a silly rag? well I did....
>>>
>>> quite good video of suspension and a look at motor and swingarm.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> David D. Nelson
>
> http://evalbum.com/1328
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Danny Miller-2
In reply to this post by john fisher-4
Well, for the electric version, I suppose one wouldn't worry about if it was legal in all 50 states since it's going to stay near home.  The hybrid 300mpg one could have problems.  Correct me if I'm wrong but just because a vehicle is legal in the state in which it was registered doesn't guarantee it will be legal in another state, right?

I know for example one may leave home with a double trailer where it's legal and be ticketed once he crosses into a state where it is not legal.

Danny

---- Mark Dutko <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sparrows are MC's in CA, I would guess the Aptera is in the same  
> weight and classification.
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2007, at 4:26 PM, David Nelson wrote:
>
> > In many states the 3-wheeled configuration with two front wheels and
> > one rear drive wheel classifies it as a motorcycle. I'm sure there is
> > a weight limit too. I'm in Washington state and my Gizmo was made in
> > Oregon. I think that is also why there is no place for a front license
> > plate. A motorcycle doesn't require one. My Gizmo is probably about
> > half the weight of the Aptera.
> >
> >
> > On Dec 22, 2007 3:05 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Neat... how many states (if any?) actually allow rearview cameras  
> >> instead of mirrors?
> >> And the 3-wheeled configuration?
> >>
> >> Not trying to shoot it down or anything, but there's a lot of laws  
> >> to fix first.
> >>
> >> It looks like it could safely reenter the Earth's atmosphere from  
> >> space all on its own.
> >>
> >> Danny
> >>
> >>
> >> ---- John Fisher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> video of BEV aptera on road and under construction.
> >>> http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html
> >>>
> >>> Who said Pop Mech was a silly rag? well I did....
> >>>
> >>> quite good video of suspension and a look at motor and swingarm.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> For subscription options, see
> >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David D. Nelson
> >
> > http://evalbum.com/1328
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Geopilot
In reply to this post by john fisher-4
The popmech video article says the driver won't need a motorcycle
license because it has three wheels and won't need a helmet because it
has a roof.

Wonder if it is still classified as a motorcycle. Must be right?


On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 7:35 pm, Mark Dutko wrote:
> Sparrows are MC's in CA, I would guess the Aptera is in the same
> weight and classification.
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2007, at 4:26 PM, David Nelson wrote:
>
>>  In many states the 3-wheeled configuration with two front wheels and
>>  one rear drive wheel classifies it as a motorcycle. I'm sure there is
>>  a weight limit too. I'm in Washington state and

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Geopilot
In reply to this post by john fisher-4
Actually it looks almost exactly like that new auto plane that has
folding wings. The new autoplane or car plane though has four wheels but
they are on stalks and the body fuselage is raised just like the
aptera.

Really the aptera has an airplane fuselage. Very smart.

And strength is better than most cars in side and frornt collisoons
apparently.

>>>
>>>  It looks like it could safely reenter the Earth's atmosphere from
>>>  space all on its own.
>>>
>>>  Danny


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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

John Lussmyer
In reply to this post by Geopilot
GWMobile wrote:
> The popmech video article says the driver won't need a motorcycle
> license because it has three wheels and won't need a helmet because it
> has a roof.
>
> Wonder if it is still classified as a motorcycle. Must be right?
>  

Even if it IS still a Motorcycle, in WA state you will need a Motorcycle
Endorsement, 3 wheel.  You don't need a helmet though.

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Peter VanDerWal
In reply to this post by Geopilot

> The popmech video article says the driver won't need a motorcycle
> license because it has three wheels and won't need a helmet because it
> has a roof.
>
> Wonder if it is still classified as a motorcycle. Must be right?
>

Well, they are wrong...sort of.

Every state is different.  In many states they WILL need a motorcycle
license.  In other states you won't be able to register it at all.

Thanks to Corbin, and the Sparrow, many states do not require a helmet if
you are riding a three-wheeled, fully enclosed, motorcycle.

>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Geopilot
They are only selling in California so perhaps that is California law.

Peter VanDerWal wrote:

>> The popmech video article says the driver won't need a motorcycle
>> license because it has three wheels and won't need a helmet because it
>> has a roof.
>>
>> Wonder if it is still classified as a motorcycle. Must be right?
>>
>>    
>
> Well, they are wrong...sort of.
>
> Every state is different.  In many states they WILL need a motorcycle
> license.  In other states you won't be able to register it at all.
>
> Thanks to Corbin, and the Sparrow, many states do not require a helmet if
> you are riding a three-wheeled, fully enclosed, motorcycle.
>
>  
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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Walter Guinon
In reply to this post by Geopilot
I think the name is "a" (lacking) "ptera (wings)

<quote author="GWMobile">
Actually it looks almost exactly like that new auto plane that has
folding wings. The new autoplane or car plane though has four wheels but
they are on stalks and the body fuselage is raised just like the
aptera.

Really the aptera has an airplane fuselage. Very smart.
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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

mos6507-2
In reply to this post by Geopilot
I hate how they layer on a thick techo soundtrack so you can't get a feel
for how noisy it may be when driving it.  I mean, I don't care about the
techno music!  Give me a good feel for the driving experience!

-----Original Message-----
Actually it looks almost exactly like that new auto plane that has
folding wings. The new autoplane or car plane though has four wheels but
they are on stalks and the body fuselage is raised just like the
aptera.

Really the aptera has an airplane fuselage. Very smart.

And strength is better than most cars in side and frornt collisoons
apparently.

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Geopilot
In reply to this post by john fisher-4
I agree!
I hated the music. Really bugged me.
And very few real shots of the car driving on curves or with
acceleration so you could see roll and dive.

Certainly could tell they weren't an auto magazine!

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 2:13 pm, [hidden email] wrote:

> I hate how they layer on a thick techo soundtrack so you can't get a
> feel
> for how noisy it may be when driving it.  I mean, I don't care about
> the
> techno music!  Give me a good feel for the driving experience!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Actually it looks almost exactly like that new auto plane that has
> folding wings. The new autoplane or car plane though has four wheels
> but
> they are on stalks and the body fuselage is raised just like the
> aptera.
>
> Really the aptera has an airplane fuselage. Very smart.
>
> And strength is better than most cars in side and frornt collisoons
> apparently.


www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.

www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Geopilot
I agree!
I hated the music. Really bugged me.
And very few real shots of the car driving on curves or with
acceleration so you could see roll and dive.

Certainly could tell they weren't an auto magazine!

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 2:13 pm, [hidden email] wrote:

> I hate how they layer on a thick techo soundtrack so you can't get a
> feel
> for how noisy it may be when driving it.  I mean, I don't care about
> the
> techno music!  Give me a good feel for the driving experience!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Actually it looks almost exactly like that new auto plane that has
> folding wings. The new autoplane or car plane though has four wheels
> but
> they are on stalks and the body fuselage is raised just like the
> aptera.
>
> Really the aptera has an airplane fuselage. Very smart.
>
> And strength is better than most cars in side and frornt collisoons
> apparently.



www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.

www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

mos6507-2
I think we all want to see what happens to the wheelwells when it drive
through a slushy road.

-----Original Message-----
I agree!
I hated the music. Really bugged me.
And very few real shots of the car driving on curves or with
acceleration so you could see roll and dive.

Certainly could tell they weren't an auto magazine!

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Roy LeMeur
In reply to this post by john fisher-4


GWMobile wrote:
> I agree!
> I hated the music. Really bugged me.
> And very few real shots of the car driving on curves or with
> acceleration so you could see roll and dive.

Same here. Would have preferred the sounds of the vehicle.

And... some shots of the chassis working in real world situations. Like hard braking, cornering close to the adhesion limit, even negotiating a parking lot with other vehicles would be good. (though interaction with other the drivers wouldn't be an accurate representation cuz all the other drivers would, in addition too everyday responses, have the -wow- factor going on :^D )

Did anyone see the drag coefficient mentioned? I didn't catch that part.

IMHO, one of the best vehicle designs I have seen in a long time.

Bucky Fuller would like this :^D


~~~~~~


Roy LeMeur

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Danny Miller-2
In reply to this post by john fisher-4
I'm not too concerned about its cornering or performance in slush... what would concern me is a heavy side gust in a windstorm.  With a light vehicle and ample space for wind to go under it, that seems like being picked up and toppled could be a concern.  With the local-only EV version, one could just say fine don't take it out on those once-or-twice-a-year bad times.  If you're at work, have a friend drive you home, take the bus, or call a cab.  With the long-distance version that might be harder to exclude.  Once you're 200 miles from home and the wind starts kicking up your options are more limited.  But I'd not jump to the conclusion that it's all that vulnerable to wind gusts.

I bet that if it did make it onto the market, someone would indeed start trying to make a bolt-up set of wing for it.  Given its fairly low weight and exceptionally low drag, it would be quite conceivable that with one of the newer high power density engines it could easily fly, at least on paper.  Use the drivewheels for the initial acceleration down the runway then rely on the prop once the weight unloads off them.  Short takeoff!



Danny

> > -----Original Message-----
> > Actually it looks almost exactly like that new auto plane that has
> > folding wings. The new autoplane or car plane though has four wheels
> > but
> > they are on stalks and the body fuselage is raised just like the
> > aptera.
> >
> > Really the aptera has an airplane fuselage. Very smart.
> >
> > And strength is better than most cars in side and frornt collisoons
> > apparently.
>
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Danny Miller-2
In reply to this post by john fisher-4
They've already got a wiki with that info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptera_hybrid_car

They shot for a drag coefficient of 0.055 to 0.06, but ended up with 0.11 in the prototype.  Also they only get 230 mpg, starting with a fully charged batt- and I figuring that means part of that mileage comes off the batt rather than a pure gasoline-to-miles figure.   Awww.... "only" 230 mpg??  I figure after 50 mpg or so cost of fuel is just about nothing anyways, car payments and expensive low rolling resistance specialty tires cost far more per month.

I bet the drag added by including a space for the legally required license plate is making the designer cry.

Body shape reminds me of the Edgley Optica- a ducted fan aircraft which had to maintain laminar airflow around the cabin for the intake to the ducted fan in the rear (it's not a turbine, just an enclosed propeller).  Was not a success in the end, though it's unclear if the principles of the design were flawed.

Danny

---- Roy LeMeur <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And... some shots of the chassis working in real world situations. Like hard braking, cornering close to the adhesion limit, even negotiating a parking lot with other vehicles would be good. (though interaction with other the drivers wouldn't be an accurate representation cuz all the other drivers would, in addition too everyday responses, have the -wow- factor going on :^D )
>
> Did anyone see the drag coefficient mentioned? I didn't catch that part.
>
> IMHO, one of the best vehicle designs I have seen in a long time.
>
> Bucky Fuller would like this :^D
>
>
> ~~~~~~
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Bruce W
In reply to this post by Danny Miller-2
I  suspect the aerodynamics of the vehicle allows the wind to slide around
it rather than blow it around. I saw a freeway run where is was being video
taped while going down freeway. The tracking car was being buffeted by
semi's passing it but the Aptera was rock steady. However I do not a
personal driving experience to verify it.

On Dec 24, 2007 1:53 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm not too concerned about its cornering or performance in slush... what
> would concern me is a heavy side gust in a windstorm.  With a light vehicle
> and ample space for wind to go under it, that seems like being picked up and
> toppled could be a concern.  With the local-only EV version, one could just
> say fine don't take it out on those once-or-twice-a-year bad times.  If
> you're at work, have a friend drive you home, take the bus, or call a cab.
>  With the long-distance version that might be harder to exclude.  Once
> you're 200 miles from home and the wind starts kicking up your options are
> more limited.  But I'd not jump to the conclusion that it's all that
> vulnerable to wind gusts.
>
> I bet that if it did make it onto the market, someone would indeed start
> trying to make a bolt-up set of wing for it.  Given its fairly low weight
> and exceptionally low drag, it would be quite conceivable that with one of
> the newer high power density engines it could easily fly, at least on paper.
>  Use the drivewheels for the initial acceleration down the runway then rely
> on the prop once the weight unloads off them.  Short takeoff!
>
>
>
> Danny
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > Actually it looks almost exactly like that new auto plane that has
> > > folding wings. The new autoplane or car plane though has four wheels
> > > but
> > > they are on stalks and the body fuselage is raised just like the
> > > aptera.
> > >
> > > Really the aptera has an airplane fuselage. Very smart.
> > >
> > > And strength is better than most cars in side and frornt collisoons
> > > apparently.
> >
> >
> > www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> > and the melting poles.
> >
> > www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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Re: Aptera not vaporware after all

Geopilot
In reply to this post by john fisher-4
>
> Did anyone see the drag coefficient mentioned? I didn't catch that
> part.

Think they said it was less than the wind resistance of a normal
windshield wiper.

It was like half that of a prius or something but I forget.

The profile made me wonder what was going on with the underbody where it
rising up then back down in back.

I also wondered if it helped the wind resistance if they keep the total
area between the bottom of the car body and the road the same for the
whole vehicle profile. Looked like they might be trying to do that.
Wondered if the kept the air from getting compressed more than it had
to.

I did not understand the bit about the solar panel pulling the heat out
of the cabin. Something they said made me think they weren't just using
a blower to ventalate the cabin but I can't remember without watching it
again.

> IMHO, one of the best vehicle designs I have seen in a long time.
>
> Bucky Fuller would like this :^D
>
>
> ~~~~~~
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
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