Auto company EV availability

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Auto company EV availability

Lee Hart
The auto companies and media would have us believe that EVs are "here at
last" and available. The situation is getting better in California, but
that's not the case here in the Midwest:

Pete Bonahoom wrote:
 > After months of calls and hunting, I finally managed to get two
 > Mitsubishi EVs for my pizza delivery business this spring. They
 > are the first two sold in Minnesota. No local dealer would help;
 > I had to buy from the west coast and have them shipped in myself.

Dave Moe wrote:
 > My wife Nancy and I were very excited to take delivery of the first
 > Nissan Leaf in Minnesota on Monday May 28, 2012.

Mike Shoop wrote:
 > I've been hunting for a Chevy Volt, but no dealers in the
 > Minneapolis/St.Paul area had any. I eventually found a dealer
 > that had one. They hid it at the back of the lot, and behaved
 > like it was "nailed to the floor" and worked hard to sell me
 > something else instead.

Similarly, Ford talks as if their EVs will be available, but none of the
dealers I've talked to have any intention of getting any of them.
They'll sell you an ICE in a heartbeat, of course!

I've also been hunting for a Toyota plug-in Prius. Same story; no dealer
wants to get any. If I want one, I'll probably have to go to some other
far away state to get it.
--
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Auto company EV availability

Cor van de Water
What was that again about "resisting anything new"?
Eventually they go away (die an economic death) if
they do not go with the program...
But too soon and they might be on the "bleeding edge"
so as long as the situation in Minnesota is like I
heard from you - a few scattered individuals want them,
then it makes sense to get them where they are common
instead of wrestling an unwilling local dealer...
You could ask the auto company if there are any
friendly dealers in your area and give them your business
that helps many things: the few dealers that are already
positive towards EVs will get more customers; also the
auto company gets the message that there are customers in
your area; you get better service from the enthusiast
dealer and when he is local it is much easier to get
service than when you "import" your car from the West coast.
Last but not least, if others see your car and ask how you
got it, it is easier to say: go to Dealer xxx in the next town
because he has them in stock, than to say that they need to
go across country to find one...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 11:32 AM
To: EV list
Subject: [EVDL] Auto company EV availability

The auto companies and media would have us believe that EVs are "here at
last" and available. The situation is getting better in California, but
that's not the case here in the Midwest:

Pete Bonahoom wrote:
 > After months of calls and hunting, I finally managed to get two  >
Mitsubishi EVs for my pizza delivery business this spring. They  > are
the first two sold in Minnesota. No local dealer would help;  > I had to
buy from the west coast and have them shipped in myself.

Dave Moe wrote:
 > My wife Nancy and I were very excited to take delivery of the first
> Nissan Leaf in Minnesota on Monday May 28, 2012.

Mike Shoop wrote:
 > I've been hunting for a Chevy Volt, but no dealers in the  >
Minneapolis/St.Paul area had any. I eventually found a dealer  > that
had one. They hid it at the back of the lot, and behaved  > like it was
"nailed to the floor" and worked hard to sell me  > something else
instead.

Similarly, Ford talks as if their EVs will be available, but none of the
dealers I've talked to have any intention of getting any of them.
They'll sell you an ICE in a heartbeat, of course!

I've also been hunting for a Toyota plug-in Prius. Same story; no dealer
wants to get any. If I want one, I'll probably have to go to some other
far away state to get it.
--
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Auto company EV availability

Willie2
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
On Fri, Jun 01, 2012 at 01:31:43PM -0500, Lee Hart wrote:
> The auto companies and media would have us believe that EVs are "here at
> last" and available. The situation is getting better in California, but
> that's not the case here in the Midwest:

Well,,,, current factory EVs seem to be not well configured for the
Minnesota climate.  Our Leaf lost 10-20% of it's range in our winter
where it sometimes gets below freezing; my impression is that Minnesota
spends most of the winter below freezing.  Were I a dealer, I would want
to avoid selling cars I thought would cause me trouble down the road.

I've seen several Nissan dealers in Texas that are stocking Leafs.  
Walk in, write a check, drive it out.

BTW, our Leaf seems to have a low battery capacity.  I would recommend
that anyone contemplating buying a Leaf buy or borrow a SOC meter and
get a full charge reading before accepting delivery.  Full capacity
batteries should read about 280 "gids"; ours now reads about 240 at
full charge.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  73 days  8 hours 42 minutes

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Re: Auto company EV availability

Mark Grasser
In reply to this post by Lee Hart

 

>>>The auto companies and media would have us believe that EVs are "here at
last" and available. The situation is getting better in California, but
that's not the case here in the Midwest:

 

Well come on Lee, Get your car done!!!!

:-)

Mark





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Dodge Challenger SRT8

R Willis
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
anyone know if there is a kit out for conversion ?

thanks Richard

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Re: Auto company EV availability

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Willie2
Willie,
Did you ever drive the Leaf below 0
and I don't mean temp - if the "grids" slowly
drift due to measurement (in)accuracy then the
fully charged battery may indicate the wrong number
which can only be recovered by driving until the
BMS starts protecting the pack and hopefully
resetting the erroneous reading....
(I did not investigate this - it may have been
attempted by others and reported on Leaf forums)


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 11:55 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Auto company EV availability

On Fri, Jun 01, 2012 at 01:31:43PM -0500, Lee Hart wrote:
> The auto companies and media would have us believe that EVs are "here
> at last" and available. The situation is getting better in California,

> but that's not the case here in the Midwest:

Well,,,, current factory EVs seem to be not well configured for the
Minnesota climate.  Our Leaf lost 10-20% of it's range in our winter
where it sometimes gets below freezing; my impression is that Minnesota
spends most of the winter below freezing.  Were I a dealer, I would want
to avoid selling cars I thought would cause me trouble down the road.

I've seen several Nissan dealers in Texas that are stocking Leafs.  
Walk in, write a check, drive it out.

BTW, our Leaf seems to have a low battery capacity.  I would recommend
that anyone contemplating buying a Leaf buy or borrow a SOC meter and
get a full charge reading before accepting delivery.  Full capacity
batteries should read about 280 "gids"; ours now reads about 240 at full
charge.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  73 days  8 hours 42 minutes

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Re: Auto company EV availability

Willie2
On Fri, Jun 01, 2012 at 02:43:37PM -0700, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Willie,
> Did you ever drive the Leaf below 0
> and I don't mean temp - if the "grids" slowly
> drift due to measurement (in)accuracy then the
> fully charged battery may indicate the wrong number
> which can only be recovered by driving until the
> BMS starts protecting the pack and hopefully
> resetting the erroneous reading....

Very early on, I ran it until it wouldn't go anymore (Steve and I towed
it the last hundred yards with a golf cart).  That was to determine how
many miles I had below "0" (the answer is about 10).  And that was long
before I got my SOC meter; it is supposed to read "0" at the point
where the electronics shuts it down.  The SOC meter units are referred
to as "gids", apparently in homage to the guy who makes the meter,
Gideon or somesuch.  Each gid represents about 80wh.

> (I did not investigate this - it may have been
> attempted by others and reported on Leaf forums)

The consensus there is that "gids" are as close to energy as we are
likely to get.  CERTAINLY far more useful than "miles remaining".
"gids" are reported to drift around a bit, apparently as the bms does
it's thing.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  73 days 12 hours 07 minutes

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Re: Auto company EV availability

Peri Hartman
In reply to this post by Willie2
What's a "gid"?  I'll be taking my leaf in for the annual service soon and
I'd like a full report from them.  What all should I ask for?  I haven't
inquired on what they check, but if anyone has any suggestions or knowledge,
I'd appreciate that.  

In particular, I'd like to know if regen is working properly.  I sometimes
only get about 55 miles range when doing in city driving.

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Willie McKemie
Sent: 01 June, 2012 11:55 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Auto company EV availability

On Fri, Jun 01, 2012 at 01:31:43PM -0500, Lee Hart wrote:
> The auto companies and media would have us believe that EVs are "here
> at last" and available. The situation is getting better in California,
> but that's not the case here in the Midwest:

Well,,,, current factory EVs seem to be not well configured for the
Minnesota climate.  Our Leaf lost 10-20% of it's range in our winter where
it sometimes gets below freezing; my impression is that Minnesota spends
most of the winter below freezing.  Were I a dealer, I would want to avoid
selling cars I thought would cause me trouble down the road.

I've seen several Nissan dealers in Texas that are stocking Leafs.  
Walk in, write a check, drive it out.

BTW, our Leaf seems to have a low battery capacity.  I would recommend that
anyone contemplating buying a Leaf buy or borrow a SOC meter and get a full
charge reading before accepting delivery.  Full capacity batteries should
read about 280 "gids"; ours now reads about 240 at full charge.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  73 days  8 hours 42 minutes

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Re: Auto company EV availability

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
On 6/1/2012 1:41 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> What was that again about "resisting anything new"?
> Eventually they go away (die an economic death) if
> they do not go with the program...
> But too soon and they might be on the "bleeding edge"

True indeed. This is a tough business climate for car dealers. They can
misjudge the market in either direction; stocking something that doesn't
sell, or failing to carry something that does!

> You could ask the auto company if there are any
> friendly dealers in your area and give them your business...

That's how I bought my Prius. In 2000, no Toyota dealer would even
considering getting one. Toyota America was shrewd enough to offer them
online, to be delivered to your local dealer. So I ordered one in May of
2000.

When it was ready in August 2000, half a dozen local dealers refused to
take it. It ended up being shipped to one 80 miles away, which is where
we had to pick it up.

Then, our local dealers wouldn't touch it for service. It was over a
year before they would even do an oil change. Toyota America basically
forced all the dealers to get at least one Prius-trained mechanic.

It all worked out in the end, once it became obvious to the dealers that
the Prius was a runaway success.

I expect that EVs will go the same way. The dealers do not like change.

--
First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they fight you; then you
win.
        -- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Auto company EV availability

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Mark Grasser
On 6/1/2012 1:58 PM, Mark Grasser wrote:
>> The auto companies and media would have us believe that EVs are "here at
>> last" and available. The situation is getting better in California, but
>> that's not the case here in the Midwest:

> Well come on Lee, Get your car done!!!!

I'm trying! I'm trying! Have you been watching the website
www.sunrise-ev.com?
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!    -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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