Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

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Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Mike Scott-13
I have a DMOC445-II that is finally up and running after several years in
battery limbo. I now have a 50-cell string of CALB 100AH that are putting
164V to the HV terminals and a 12V battery supplying the LV terminals.
According to the manual, there should only need to be 2 other connections
to get the motor to spin: an active low Forward that needs to be connected
to one of the internal grounds (pin 29 to 19) plus the potbox.

With those connections made, the HV contactor was still not pulling in. I
next tried the Drive Enable wire, which was missing from my harness.  (The
manual says that it is not needed unless one of the parameters is set.)
Finally got the contactor to click on. Potbox now causes the motor to
attempt rotating, but some variable must not be set right. While pressing
the pedal, if I try to turn a wheel, it gives me a sort of oscillaition and
then it shuts off.

I have ccshell running and hyperterminal, so the serial port is working.
Hyperterminal reports that the version installed is 1631, and ccshell shows
proper potbox operation with it's Scope function, as well as reading my
battery voltage correctly. Yesterday I bypassed 5 cells to get the voltage
down to 144V, which is what the system was originally ordered for. I have
saved a parameter file, and notice that a lot of the variables that are
listed in the manual are not in my .par file

 I'm wondering if there are any "secret handshakes" that I can use to get
more of the parameters to show up, and how to edit them once they are
visible?

Is 1631 a viable build, or should it be a version or two higher? The manual
makes mention of a 1641 build.
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Nathan Loofbourrow
I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.

(That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)

n

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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by Mike Scott-13
I'm not familiar with that inverter, so this is a total WAG, but I wonder
whether the inverter is listening to the motor.  Older Solectria (Brusa)
inverters used an optical sensor reading a disc on the motor tailshaft for
positional feedback. What does this one use, and are you sure it's working
right?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Collin Kidder
In reply to this post by Nathan Loofbourrow
The OP says that the system was ordered to run on 144V so I'd imagine it is
still set that way. The DMOC445-II tended to be paired with an AC-24 motor.
That motor uses an incremental encoder for position feedback. My guess is
that the encoder signal is not getting through probably. On those old
DMOC445s there were sometimes troubles with noise on the encoder cable.
They made a special box that you put in line on the encoder cable to clean
up the signal before it gets to the DMOC. If you don't have that then it is
possible that the signal is getting too noisy. At any rate, if the OP has
an oscilloscope it might be handy to try to scope the encoder signal lines.
That won't be too terribly straight forward to do though.


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Nathan Loofbourrow <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed
> at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that
> for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.
>
> (That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure
> setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)
>
> n
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Mike Scott-13
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
Thanks.

I was able to get the wheel to spin after breaking the rusted brakes free,
and spent a little time sanding the rotors. ccshell reports that the motor
(AC24) was spinning at 20 or 40 RPM, so I guess that means the optical
sensors are doing something at least. (There is a 14 pin connector running
to the tail of the motor that passes through a small metal box with a relay
and some other circuitry in it, still have not found any documentation of
that bit anywhere.)

After a few minutes spinning the wheel the cooling fans came on, so that
works as well. ccshell did not report any errors, or ones I am aware of at
least.

Which variables should I be looking at to determine the voltage settings?
The .CCS file I have may not have them, so it would be good to know which
ones I need to worry about.


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:54 AM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I'm not familiar with that inverter, so this is a total WAG, but I wonder
> whether the inverter is listening to the motor.  Older Solectria (Brusa)
> inverters used an optical sensor reading a disc on the motor tailshaft for
> positional feedback. What does this one use, and are you sure it's working
> right?
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

a.swackhammer
In reply to this post by Nathan Loofbourrow
Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:48:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.

(That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)

n

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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Mike Scott-13
I think that a heavy set of batteries may have disillusioned a lot of
people that were expecting better acceleration. That's the reason I held
out for a lighter pack that could be mounted low enough to not disrupt the
center of gravity of my 914, and only added a few hundred pounds to the
curb weight.


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:04 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v
> system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:48:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.
>
> I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed
> at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that
> for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.
>
> (That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure
> setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)
>
> n
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Pestka, Dennis J-2
In reply to this post by a.swackhammer
Al;

Just checked out your site.
Nice car and a first class restoration and conversion.
Real head turner, and looks like a fun vehicle to drive.

Can I ask how you got your Zivan to work with the Lithiums ?

Thanks;
Dennis                                            
Elsberry, MO                              
http://www.evalbum.com/1366 
http://evalbum.com/3715                                             



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:48:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.

(That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)

n

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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

a.swackhammer
Good morning Dennis,  Thanks for the nice words.  I sent both the Zivans into Greg at Zivan.  I did not pull any punches and should have told him I had one less cell than I do.  Honesty sometimes gets in the way.  For what ever reason they just won't set them up the way we want.  I run them in parallel and one goes off at 210vdc and the other goes off at 216vdc and does the float.  At the moment I have the 216v charger not working and need to see why.  Hopefully I answered your question.
 
On a side note the DKW is for sale.  So if you know anyone interested it will be going on Bring a Trailer in the near future.  Al

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dennis J Pestka" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 4:07:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Al;

Just checked out your site.
Nice car and a first class restoration and conversion.
Real head turner, and looks like a fun vehicle to drive.

Can I ask how you got your Zivan to work with the Lithiums ?

Thanks;
Dennis                                            
Elsberry, MO                              
http://www.evalbum.com/1366 
http://evalbum.com/3715                                             



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:48:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.

(That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)

n

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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Pestka, Dennis J-2
Al;

Thanks for the reply.
The problem I see is the float stage. I've heard that you should not float these lithium's, but shut down the charger when the current gets to ~ .05C.
Phase 1 should charge to 3.5 - 3.6V, and then Phase 2 should hold the voltage, and taper the current. Looks like you're right there with the voltage.
Do you know where your current is at when you switch to the float stage ?

I have a Zivan NG5, and I may attempt to readjust  this myself, if I could get some guidance.

Anyone on the list have any experience adjusting these Zivan chargers, and do you know if you can eliminate the float stage ?


Thanks;
Dennis                                            
Elsberry, MO                              
http://www.evalbum.com/1366 
http://evalbum.com/3715                                             





-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 6:48 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Good morning Dennis,  Thanks for the nice words.  I sent both the Zivans into Greg at Zivan.  I did not pull any punches and should have told him I had one less cell than I do.  Honesty sometimes gets in the way.  For what ever reason they just won't set them up the way we want.  I run them in parallel and one goes off at 210vdc and the other goes off at 216vdc and does the float.  At the moment I have the 216v charger not working and need to see why.  Hopefully I answered your question.
 
On a side note the DKW is for sale.  So if you know anyone interested it will be going on Bring a Trailer in the near future.  Al

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dennis J Pestka" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 4:07:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Al;

Just checked out your site.
Nice car and a first class restoration and conversion.
Real head turner, and looks like a fun vehicle to drive.

Can I ask how you got your Zivan to work with the Lithiums ?

Thanks;
Dennis Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366
http://evalbum.com/3715                                             



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:48:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.

(That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)

n

_______________________________________________
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

a.swackhammer
Dennis,  You can eliminate the float because the 210v charger does just that.  It shuts off and the 216v charger continues to charge till 216v and then floats.  I have used these now for three years and have not had any issues with the cells.  They are really balanced all the time.  I have not heard from anyone besides Jack Recard (sp) to not float the lithium's.  I have read at times of folks that have adjusted the chargers themselves.  It seems it has to be done with the cover off and LIVE.  Everything in these chargers are HOT.  So be very careful.  I went to a blog on adjusting Zivan chargers and found the pots for voltage and current I believe.  I have not done any adjusting.  You can only go so far.  If you let Greg know that is how you want it he will do that for you.  The ending voltage seems to be the issue, if you only tell him how many cells you have.  Most people I have talked to or read about say the voltage he determines is too high.  So they have started to tell him they have one less cell than they do.  Or add an extra cell to their pack.  Much more work than to just tell him one less.  Al 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dennis J Pestka" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 5:10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Al;

Thanks for the reply.
The problem I see is the float stage. I've heard that you should not float these lithium's, but shut down the charger when the current gets to ~ .05C.
Phase 1 should charge to 3.5 - 3.6V, and then Phase 2 should hold the voltage, and taper the current. Looks like you're right there with the voltage.
Do you know where your current is at when you switch to the float stage ?

I have a Zivan NG5, and I may attempt to readjust  this myself, if I could get some guidance.

Anyone on the list have any experience adjusting these Zivan chargers, and do you know if you can eliminate the float stage ?


Thanks;
Dennis                                            
Elsberry, MO                              
http://www.evalbum.com/1366 
http://evalbum.com/3715                                             





-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 6:48 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Good morning Dennis,  Thanks for the nice words.  I sent both the Zivans into Greg at Zivan.  I did not pull any punches and should have told him I had one less cell than I do.  Honesty sometimes gets in the way.  For what ever reason they just won't set them up the way we want.  I run them in parallel and one goes off at 210vdc and the other goes off at 216vdc and does the float.  At the moment I have the 216v charger not working and need to see why.  Hopefully I answered your question.
 
On a side note the DKW is for sale.  So if you know anyone interested it will be going on Bring a Trailer in the near future.  Al

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dennis J Pestka" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 4:07:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Al;

Just checked out your site.
Nice car and a first class restoration and conversion.
Real head turner, and looks like a fun vehicle to drive.

Can I ask how you got your Zivan to work with the Lithiums ?

Thanks;
Dennis Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366 
http://evalbum.com/3715                                             



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:48:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.

(That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)

n

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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Pestka, Dennis J-2
Al;

Thanks for the info. I will keep looking into it.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 7:27 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Dennis,  You can eliminate the float because the 210v charger does just that.  It shuts off and the 216v charger continues to charge till 216v and then floats.  I have used these now for three years and have not had any issues with the cells.  They are really balanced all the time.  I have not heard from anyone besides Jack Recard (sp) to not float the lithium's.  I have read at times of folks that have adjusted the chargers themselves.  It seems it has to be done with the cover off and LIVE.  Everything in these chargers are HOT.  So be very careful.  I went to a blog on adjusting Zivan chargers and found the pots for voltage and current I believe.  I have not done any adjusting.  You can only go so far.  If you let Greg know that is how you want it he will do that for you.  The ending voltage seems to be the issue, if you only tell him how many cells you have.  Most people I have talked to or read about say the voltage he determines is too high.  So they have started to tell him they have one less cell than they do.  Or add an extra cell to their pack.  Much more work than to just tell him one less.  Al 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dennis J Pestka" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 5:10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Al;

Thanks for the reply.
The problem I see is the float stage. I've heard that you should not float these lithium's, but shut down the charger when the current gets to ~ .05C.
Phase 1 should charge to 3.5 - 3.6V, and then Phase 2 should hold the voltage, and taper the current. Looks like you're right there with the voltage.
Do you know where your current is at when you switch to the float stage ?

I have a Zivan NG5, and I may attempt to readjust  this myself, if I could get some guidance.

Anyone on the list have any experience adjusting these Zivan chargers, and do you know if you can eliminate the float stage ?


Thanks;
Dennis Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366
http://evalbum.com/3715                                             





-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 6:48 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Good morning Dennis,  Thanks for the nice words.  I sent both the Zivans into Greg at Zivan.  I did not pull any punches and should have told him I had one less cell than I do.  Honesty sometimes gets in the way.  For what ever reason they just won't set them up the way we want.  I run them in parallel and one goes off at 210vdc and the other goes off at 216vdc and does the float.  At the moment I have the 216v charger not working and need to see why.  Hopefully I answered your question.
 
On a side note the DKW is for sale.  So if you know anyone interested it will be going on Bring a Trailer in the near future.  Al

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dennis J Pestka" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 4:07:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Al;

Just checked out your site.
Nice car and a first class restoration and conversion.
Real head turner, and looks like a fun vehicle to drive.

Can I ask how you got your Zivan to work with the Lithiums ?

Thanks;
Dennis Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366
http://evalbum.com/3715                                             



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:48:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.

(That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)

n

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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Nathan Loofbourrow
In reply to this post by a.swackhammer
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:04 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v
> system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430


Glad to hear that, actually… I designed my pack for 350v, but could save
some weight and $$$ by stopping at 220v and seeing how that performs!

n
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Collin Kidder
Keep in mind that the AC-24 motor has connections that allow for it to be
connected either delta or wye. Delta allows for use of the motor at 220V
while wye is used when you have higher voltage like 350v. If your system
was designed for 350v then the motor is probably wye connected and if you
leave it that way you'll have a bad time trying to use 220v. If you switch
from wye to delta but don't update the motor controller's parameters then
you'll also have a bad time. You really shouldn't try to go outside of the
voltage you originally intended unless you're sure of what you're doing.
I'd be squeamish to do that these days now that Azure Dynamics is gone and
your best tech support is people like me.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Nathan Loofbourrow <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:04 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v
> > system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430
>
>
> Glad to hear that, actually… I designed my pack for 350v, but could save
> some weight and $$$ by stopping at 220v and seeing how that performs!
>
> n
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Nathan Loofbourrow
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Collin Kidder <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Keep in mind that the AC-24 motor has connections that allow for it to be
> connected either delta or wye. Delta allows for use of the motor at 220V
> while wye is used when you have higher voltage like 350v.


Mine is definitely wired/configured for wye. Ah well, back to plan A :)

n
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Martin WINLOW
In reply to this post by Mike Scott-13
Hi Mike,

I don't know if it'll be of any help as the motor/controller is brushless 3 phase DC rather than the AC one you have but... I remember someone having a similar issue with a Vectrix electric motorcycle after they replaced the original controller.  They found the motor was running backwards slowly on acceleration.  Turns out there is a special calibration technique required that makes the controller calibrate itself to the motor and then all was good.  Perhaps your setup needs something similar and similarly simple... thread is here for what its worth... http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13487-dead-mc-board and the relevant post is made at Fri, 06/21/2013 - 09:08.

Good luck!  MW


On 14 Nov 2013, at 18:20, Mike Scott wrote:

> I have a DMOC445-II that is finally up and running after several years in
> battery limbo. I now have a 50-cell string of CALB 100AH that are putting
> 164V to the HV terminals and a 12V battery supplying the LV terminals.
> According to the manual, there should only need to be 2 other connections
> to get the motor to spin: an active low Forward that needs to be connected
> to one of the internal grounds (pin 29 to 19) plus the potbox.
>
> With those connections made, the HV contactor was still not pulling in. I
> next tried the Drive Enable wire, which was missing from my harness.  (The
> manual says that it is not needed unless one of the parameters is set.)
> Finally got the contactor to click on. Potbox now causes the motor to
> attempt rotating, but some variable must not be set right. While pressing
> the pedal, if I try to turn a wheel, it gives me a sort of oscillaition and
> then it shuts off.
>
> I have ccshell running and hyperterminal, so the serial port is working.
> Hyperterminal reports that the version installed is 1631, and ccshell shows
> proper potbox operation with it's Scope function, as well as reading my
> battery voltage correctly. Yesterday I bypassed 5 cells to get the voltage
> down to 144V, which is what the system was originally ordered for. I have
> saved a parameter file, and notice that a lot of the variables that are
> listed in the manual are not in my .par file
>
> I'm wondering if there are any "secret handshakes" that I can use to get
> more of the parameters to show up, and how to edit them once they are
> visible?
>
> Is 1631 a viable build, or should it be a version or two higher? The manual
> makes mention of a 1641 build.
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

David Nelson-5
In reply to this post by Pestka, Dennis J-2
Dennis,

I had to do what Al did when getting my Zivan NG1 and NG3 programmed
for my pack. I had them program for 19 cells and then I installed 20
cells. In my case, neither of my chargers could be programmed to turn
off after the current dropped to a particular level so I'm stuck with
the "equalize charge" phase (which lasts from about 45min to 2 hours
before the timer turns off the charger). Neither one had a float
charge phase. I did trim the voltage down a bit. Initially I did this
with the cover off and a box fan blowing over the controller. As Al
said, the guts are LIVE, so do this at your own risk. I did end up
drilling two small holes over the voltage and current calibration pots
so not I can make adjustments with the case on. I still use an
electricians screwdriver to keep safe from live voltages.

I have November 2009 TS-LFP100AHA cells and have found that charging
to 3.455V lets them rest at no more than 3.38V after 8-12 hours rest
with no load on the cells so if your chargers can't be programmed for
the standard charge procedure of CCCV of 3.6V and terminate at 0.05C
then just lower the termination voltage accordingly. With my 200Ah
pack (2p20s) there is very little energy put in after the charger
starts to cut back current so even if you had to pull the plug after
that point you won't be leaving much range on the table.

HTH,

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:53 AM, Pestka, Dennis J
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Al;
>
> Thanks for the info. I will keep looking into it.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 7:27 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.
>
> Dennis,  You can eliminate the float because the 210v charger does just that.  It shuts off and the 216v charger continues to charge till 216v and then floats.  I have used these now for three years and have not had any issues with the cells.  They are really balanced all the time.  I have not heard from anyone besides Jack Recard (sp) to not float the lithium's.  I have read at times of folks that have adjusted the chargers themselves.  It seems it has to be done with the cover off and LIVE.  Everything in these chargers are HOT.  So be very careful.  I went to a blog on adjusting Zivan chargers and found the pots for voltage and current I believe.  I have not done any adjusting.  You can only go so far.  If you let Greg know that is how you want it he will do that for you.  The ending voltage seems to be the issue, if you only tell him how many cells you have.  Most people I have talked to or read about say the voltage he determines is too high.  So they have started to t
 ell him they have one less cell than they do.  Or add an extra cell to their pack.  Much more work than to just tell him one less.  Al

>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Dennis J Pestka" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 5:10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.
>
> Al;
>
> Thanks for the reply.
> The problem I see is the float stage. I've heard that you should not float these lithium's, but shut down the charger when the current gets to ~ .05C.
> Phase 1 should charge to 3.5 - 3.6V, and then Phase 2 should hold the voltage, and taper the current. Looks like you're right there with the voltage.
> Do you know where your current is at when you switch to the float stage ?
>
> I have a Zivan NG5, and I may attempt to readjust  this myself, if I could get some guidance.
>
> Anyone on the list have any experience adjusting these Zivan chargers, and do you know if you can eliminate the float stage ?
>
>
> Thanks;
> Dennis Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
> http://evalbum.com/3715
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 6:48 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.
>
> Good morning Dennis,  Thanks for the nice words.  I sent both the Zivans into Greg at Zivan.  I did not pull any punches and should have told him I had one less cell than I do.  Honesty sometimes gets in the way.  For what ever reason they just won't set them up the way we want.  I run them in parallel and one goes off at 210vdc and the other goes off at 216vdc and does the float.  At the moment I have the 216v charger not working and need to see why.  Hopefully I answered your question.
>
> On a side note the DKW is for sale.  So if you know anyone interested it will be going on Bring a Trailer in the near future.  Al
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Dennis J Pestka" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 4:07:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.
>
> Al;
>
> Just checked out your site.
> Nice car and a first class restoration and conversion.
> Real head turner, and looks like a fun vehicle to drive.
>
> Can I ask how you got your Zivan to work with the Lithiums ?
>
> Thanks;
> Dennis Elsberry, MO
> http://www.evalbum.com/1366
> http://evalbum.com/3715
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:04 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.
>
> Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Nathan Loofbourrow" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:48:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.
>
> I had this exact problem and discovered that the controller was programmed at the factory with a 250V minimum voltage. Use the software to lower that for your 164V pack and see if that solves it.
>
> (That said, the only folks on evalbum that seem pleased with their Azure setups seem to be those running at 250V+.)
>
> n
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://www.levforum.com
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Re: Azure DMOC Not spinning motor.

Mike Scott-13
In reply to this post by Collin Kidder
Thanks Colin.

My order was for 144V system, I have tried it at that voltage, but intend
to put the 5 cells back for 160V. Unless I was shipped a mis-wired motor, I
believe that it is Delta, as is the variable EE2WyeConnected, which is set
to zero. Could I trouble you to look over my parameter file, for a sanity
check?


On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Collin Kidder <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Keep in mind that the AC-24 motor has connections that allow for it to be
> connected either delta or wye. Delta allows for use of the motor at 220V
> while wye is used when you have higher voltage like 350v. If your system
> was designed for 350v then the motor is probably wye connected and if you
> leave it that way you'll have a bad time trying to use 220v. If you switch
> from wye to delta but don't update the motor controller's parameters then
> you'll also have a bad time. You really shouldn't try to go outside of the
> voltage you originally intended unless you're sure of what you're doing.
> I'd be squeamish to do that these days now that Azure Dynamics is gone and
> your best tech support is people like me.
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Nathan Loofbourrow <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:04 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Good afternoon Nathan,  That is not exactly true.  I am running a 200v
> > > system and works very well.  Al www.evalbum.com/2430
> >
> >
> > Glad to hear that, actually… I designed my pack for 350v, but could save
> > some weight and $$$ by stopping at 220v and seeing how that performs!
> >
> > n
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