Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Hello Everyone

I finally made the jump and purchased my 5th but more importantly- road
legal EV, a 2017 Chevrolet Volt!  I purchased it used in another province
1200 km away as there are no incentives in my province of Nova Scotia.  I
couldn't buy it new but the used vehicles in Quebec reflect that incentive
of over $8K.  I am enjoying the vehicle much even though Nova Scotia is far
behind in charging infrastructure.  Charging stations are few and far
between (our international airport has 1 station)  but the worse I see is
the ICE parking in those few EV spots.  I consult at a place where they
have an unbelievable amount of stations locally (3) but almost always they
are filled with ICE vehicles!  I actually was able to stop an ICE vehicle
from taking the last spot one day - In a Canadian style argument, I simply
asked if I he could move so I could park and charge.  He graciously agreed
and apologized, citing that he has only seen one EV ever park there.
 Unfortunately I can't have that argument if the owner isn't there.   What
can I do to change this?  I have thought about printing off a few sheets
and placing them on windshields with something like this:

WARNING

Your vehicle is parked in a designated electric vehicle charging/parking
location.  Your license plate has been recorded.  Further infractions
against parking in this location with a non-electric vehicle may result in
your vehicle being ticketed or towed.



Regards

Management

Probably a little too drastic?  I am trying to engage the building manager
but have not reached them yet.  I fear they may not hold any weight to my
arguments anyway as policing parking spaces doesn't sound like high merit.
Any other ideas?

Cheers
Dan

http://www.evalbum.com/4544
http://www.evalbum.com/3432
http://www.evalbum.com/4767
http://www.evalbum.com/4451
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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On 7 Dec 2017 at 14:51, Dan Baker via EV wrote:

> Probably a little too drastic?

Yeah, I'd say so.

Cynic that I am, I doubt that anything is going to work.  However I see no
harm in starting by assuming that most of the ICEV drivers, like the one you
met, don't realize that anyone around there actually drives an EV.

So maybe I'd try a bit of gentle humor.  

I'd park my EV behind an ICEd spot.  I'd have someone take a picture of me
holding the charging cable that I'd pulled out past the ICEV toward my EV -
but darn it, it just won't quite reach.

I'd make a windshield for the offending vehicles flyer with that pic, and a
little text, something like "Sorry for the inconvenience, but could you
please try to leave at least one of the EV chargers available?"  I'd sign it
something silly like "A member of the rare and endangered Nova Scotia
species, EV Driver."

That's just off the top of my head, and I'm sure you can come up with
something much more creative and entertaining.  

But I think the key is to (at least at first) avoid being confrontational.  
Assume they're polite people, which is probably easier to believe in Canada
than in the US, and just need to be gently reminded of their manners.

Good luck!

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Hilarious!

More seriously, several years ago some folks on the RAV4-EV list developed a card or flyer to place on offending vehicles. If I get some time, I'll try to dig it up.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2017, at 11:42 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 7 Dec 2017 at 14:51, Dan Baker via EV wrote:
>>
>> Probably a little too drastic?
>
> Yeah, I'd say so.
>
> Cynic that I am, I doubt that anything is going to work.  However I see no
> harm in starting by assuming that most of the ICEV drivers, like the one you
> met, don't realize that anyone around there actually drives an EV.
>
> So maybe I'd try a bit of gentle humor.  
>
> I'd park my EV behind an ICEd spot.  I'd have someone take a picture of me
> holding the charging cable that I'd pulled out past the ICEV toward my EV -
> but darn it, it just won't quite reach.
>
> I'd make a windshield for the offending vehicles flyer with that pic, and a
> little text, something like "Sorry for the inconvenience, but could you
> please try to leave at least one of the EV chargers available?"  I'd sign it
> something silly like "A member of the rare and endangered Nova Scotia
> species, EV Driver."
>
> That's just off the top of my head, and I'm sure you can come up with
> something much more creative and entertaining.  
>
> But I think the key is to (at least at first) avoid being confrontational.  
> Assume they're polite people, which is probably easier to believe in Canada
> than in the US, and just need to be gently reminded of their manners.
>
> Good luck!
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

> So maybe I'd try a bit of gentle humor.
>
> I'd park my EV behind an ICEd spot.  I'd have someone take a picture of me
> holding the charging cable that I'd pulled out past the ICEV toward my EV -
> but darn it, it just won't quite reach.
>
> I'd make a windshield for the offending vehicles flyer with that pic, and a
> little text, something like "Sorry for the inconvenience, but could you
> please try to leave at least one of the EV chargers available?"  I'd sign it
> something silly like "A member of the rare and endangered Nova Scotia
> species, EV Driver."
>
> That's just off the top of my head, and I'm sure you can come up with
> something much more creative and entertaining.
>
> But I think the key is to (at least at first) avoid being confrontational.
> Assume they're polite people, which is probably easier to believe in Canada
> than in the US, and just need to be gently reminded of their manners.
>
I love it! It's worth a try. :-)

I remember a study on how hard it is to make signs that people will
actually respond to. You have to somehow make it memorable, connect with
the reader, and make him want to join "your" side. Humor is a good way
to do this.

For example, a sign that says simply "No littering" is completely
useless. In contrast, one of the most effective was an old Pogo cartoon
for Earth Day. It shows Pogo Possum attempting to clean up the litter in
his beloved swamp. The caption reads, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

--
If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to
each other.
      (Mother Teresa)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Hey everyone thanks for the response so far.  I agree now, better to try a
more friendly method then resort to push & threaten.  So frustrating
though, easy to get caught up.  Would love to see some of those printed
cards/flyers Mark!

Cheers
Dan

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>
>> So maybe I'd try a bit of gentle humor.
>>
>> I'd park my EV behind an ICEd spot.  I'd have someone take a picture of me
>> holding the charging cable that I'd pulled out past the ICEV toward my EV
>> -
>> but darn it, it just won't quite reach.
>>
>> I'd make a windshield for the offending vehicles flyer with that pic, and
>> a
>> little text, something like "Sorry for the inconvenience, but could you
>> please try to leave at least one of the EV chargers available?"  I'd sign
>> it
>> something silly like "A member of the rare and endangered Nova Scotia
>> species, EV Driver."
>>
>> That's just off the top of my head, and I'm sure you can come up with
>> something much more creative and entertaining.
>>
>> But I think the key is to (at least at first) avoid being confrontational.
>> Assume they're polite people, which is probably easier to believe in
>> Canada
>> than in the US, and just need to be gently reminded of their manners.
>>
>> I love it! It's worth a try. :-)
>
> I remember a study on how hard it is to make signs that people will
> actually respond to. You have to somehow make it memorable, connect with
> the reader, and make him want to join "your" side. Humor is a good way to
> do this.
>
> For example, a sign that says simply "No littering" is completely useless.
> In contrast, one of the most effective was an old Pogo cartoon for Earth
> Day. It shows Pogo Possum attempting to clean up the litter in his beloved
> swamp. The caption reads, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
>
> --
> If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to
> each other.
>      (Mother Teresa)
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> /NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Yep, the first impulse is to be reactive. Unless you have the force to
win, that usually results in an escalation or divisiveness. I read a
political advice comment by someone who essentially recommended:

- first agree with the person,
- listen, build trust,
- then present your needs without pushing an agenda.

Meaning: understand that he sees no harm in parking in a space that is
always vacant. You never know what the solution may turn out to be until
you hear more. In your case, it might be hard to have that conversation,
but a note with a phone number or email address could be a start.

P.S. I do like the humor approach, too. It gets the message across
without offense.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dan Baker via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Dan Baker" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 08-Dec-17 4:27:00 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces

>Hey everyone thanks for the response so far.  I agree now, better to
>try a
>more friendly method then resort to push & threaten.  So frustrating
>though, easy to get caught up.  Would love to see some of those printed
>cards/flyers Mark!
>
>Cheers
>Dan
>
>On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>>EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>>
>>>So maybe I'd try a bit of gentle humor.
>>>
>>>I'd park my EV behind an ICEd spot.  I'd have someone take a picture
>>>of me
>>>holding the charging cable that I'd pulled out past the ICEV toward
>>>my EV
>>>-
>>>but darn it, it just won't quite reach.
>>>
>>>I'd make a windshield for the offending vehicles flyer with that pic,
>>>and
>>>a
>>>little text, something like "Sorry for the inconvenience, but could
>>>you
>>>please try to leave at least one of the EV chargers available?"  I'd
>>>sign
>>>it
>>>something silly like "A member of the rare and endangered Nova Scotia
>>>species, EV Driver."
>>>
>>>That's just off the top of my head, and I'm sure you can come up with
>>>something much more creative and entertaining.
>>>
>>>But I think the key is to (at least at first) avoid being
>>>confrontational.
>>>Assume they're polite people, which is probably easier to believe in
>>>Canada
>>>than in the US, and just need to be gently reminded of their manners.
>>>
>>>I love it! It's worth a try. :-)
>>
>>I remember a study on how hard it is to make signs that people will
>>actually respond to. You have to somehow make it memorable, connect
>>with
>>the reader, and make him want to join "your" side. Humor is a good way
>>to
>>do this.
>>
>>For example, a sign that says simply "No littering" is completely
>>useless.
>>In contrast, one of the most effective was an old Pogo cartoon for
>>Earth
>>Day. It shows Pogo Possum attempting to clean up the litter in his
>>beloved
>>swamp. The caption reads, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
>>
>>--
>>If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to
>>each other.
>>      (Mother Teresa)
>>--
>>Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>>/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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There is a bit of contention for spaces where I work. In my assigned
garage, there is one L2 charging station, with one space designated for
EVs. A week or so ago, the designated spot was occupied by a Volt that
seemed to have been abandoned - it was parked in the space for four days
straight, as far as I could tell.

Nearby, an obstruction was marked off with several orange cones. One day
when I was leaving, I moved one of the cones to block the space adjacent
to the Volt, and sure enough, the next day that space was available for
me. We'll see how long I can get away with this subterfuge.

I have been contacting the parking authorities from time to time trying
to make a case for marking two spaces for a single charger, probably
time to do so again.

Cal Frye

PS - I've seen a Ford CMax, two Volts, four Leafs (including mine), an
i3, and a Bolt all circling the space, fortunately not all at the same
time. It's certainly time to request more chargers!

> Dan Baker via EV <mailto:[hidden email]>
> December 8, 2017 at 7:27 AM
> Hey everyone thanks for the response so far. I agree now, better to try a
> more friendly method then resort to push & threaten. So frustrating
> though, easy to get caught up. Would love to see some of those printed
> cards/flyers Mark!
>
> Cheers
> Dan

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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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There are 4 parking spots for EV's in the deck at downtown Kent.  Work pays for me to park in the deck but the Chargepoint chargers cost 35 cents/kWhr (and that's the discounted rate for people that have deck parking, otherwise it's 54 cents/kWhr).  It's cheaper just to use gas in the Volt, so I don't charge there.  It's 42 miles round trip to work and in the summer I do EV only, but in the winter I have to use about 10 miles gas on cold days.  It would be nice if they charged a reasonable rate for charging!
 

    On Monday, December 11, 2017 5:46 PM, Cal Frye via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
 

 There is a bit of contention for spaces where I work. In my assigned
garage, there is one L2 charging station, with one space designated for
EVs. A week or so ago, the designated spot was occupied by a Volt that
seemed to have been abandoned - it was parked in the space for four days
straight, as far as I could tell.

Nearby, an obstruction was marked off with several orange cones. One day
when I was leaving, I moved one of the cones to block the space adjacent
to the Volt, and sure enough, the next day that space was available for
me. We'll see how long I can get away with this subterfuge.

I have been contacting the parking authorities from time to time trying
to make a case for marking two spaces for a single charger, probably
time to do so again.

Cal Frye

PS - I've seen a Ford CMax, two Volts, four Leafs (including mine), an
i3, and a Bolt all circling the space, fortunately not all at the same
time. It's certainly time to request more chargers!

> Dan Baker via EV <mailto:[hidden email]>
> December 8, 2017 at 7:27 AM
> Hey everyone thanks for the response so far. I agree now, better to try a
> more friendly method then resort to push & threaten. So frustrating
> though, easy to get caught up. Would love to see some of those printed
> cards/flyers Mark!
>
> Cheers
> Dan

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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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On 12/11/2017 05:31 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote:
It's cheaper just to use gas in the Volt, so I don't charge there.  It's
42 miles round trip to work and in the summer I do EV only, but in the
winter I have to use about 10 miles gas on cold days.  It would be nice
if they charged a reasonable rate for charging!

Supply and demand.  By refusing to buy, you are indicating that the
price is too high.

The Austin electric utility has a deal with ChargePoint:  All you can
eat for six months for $25.  For my very infrequent charging needs, even
that is too high.
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Is fuel cost the reason you bought a Volt?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Rod Hower via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There are 4 parking spots for EV's in the deck at downtown Kent.  Work pays for me to park in the deck but the Chargepoint chargers cost 35 cents/kWhr (and that's the discounted rate for people that have deck parking, otherwise it's 54 cents/kWhr).  It's cheaper just to use gas in the Volt, so I don't charge there.  It's 42 miles round trip to work and in the summer I do EV only, but in the winter I have to use about 10 miles gas on cold days.  It would be nice if they charged a reasonable rate for charging!
>
>
>    On Monday, December 11, 2017 5:46 PM, Cal Frye via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> There is a bit of contention for spaces where I work. In my assigned
> garage, there is one L2 charging station, with one space designated for
> EVs. A week or so ago, the designated spot was occupied by a Volt that
> seemed to have been abandoned - it was parked in the space for four days
> straight, as far as I could tell.
>
> Nearby, an obstruction was marked off with several orange cones. One day
> when I was leaving, I moved one of the cones to block the space adjacent
> to the Volt, and sure enough, the next day that space was available for
> me. We'll see how long I can get away with this subterfuge.
>
> I have been contacting the parking authorities from time to time trying
> to make a case for marking two spaces for a single charger, probably
> time to do so again.
>
> Cal Frye
>
> PS - I've seen a Ford CMax, two Volts, four Leafs (including mine), an
> i3, and a Bolt all circling the space, fortunately not all at the same
> time. It's certainly time to request more chargers!
>
>> Dan Baker via EV <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> December 8, 2017 at 7:27 AM
>> Hey everyone thanks for the response so far. I agree now, better to try a
>> more friendly method then resort to push & threaten. So frustrating
>> though, easy to get caught up. Would love to see some of those printed
>> cards/flyers Mark!
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dan
>
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Thanks Mark!  A bit more aggressive than thought, more like I was
originally suggesting?  Won't be able to cite any laws, don't think we have
any yet, big plus for California to be that far ahead.

I found a site dated back to 2012 that has a link to more gentle notices.

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2012/1026/Have-you-been-ICE-d-Drivers-promote-electric-car-parking-etiquette

Not which sure which method to deploy.  I have noticed there is one ICE car
that is there before me in the am and parks in the same EV spot every day,
even though the lot is mostly empty at that point. So this one looks to be
a true non-believer or even hater.

I have taken to facebook and created a local Nova Scotia Electric Vehicles
group to promote awareness. I have posted a pic of the lot issues and have
asked to have it shared.  I have blotted out the license plates, for now.

Cheers
Dan



On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Mark Abramowitz <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Here's the link:
>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://evnut.com/
> docs/flyers/ev_parking_only.doc
>
> I'm told several versions were made. The maintainer of the site where this
> is housed (EVnut.com), and the author of this one suggested a little
> editing - “This vehicle” would become “your vehicle” and some of the
> “Electric Vehicle Recharging Station” redundancy could be eliminated.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 8, 2017, at 4:27 AM, Dan Baker via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hey everyone thanks for the response so far.  I agree now, better to try
> a
> > more friendly method then resort to push & threaten.  So frustrating
> > though, easy to get caught up.  Would love to see some of those printed
> > cards/flyers Mark!
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dan
> >
> >> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> >>
> >>> So maybe I'd try a bit of gentle humor.
> >>>
> >>> I'd park my EV behind an ICEd spot.  I'd have someone take a picture
> of me
> >>> holding the charging cable that I'd pulled out past the ICEV toward my
> EV
> >>> -
> >>> but darn it, it just won't quite reach.
> >>>
> >>> I'd make a windshield for the offending vehicles flyer with that pic,
> and
> >>> a
> >>> little text, something like "Sorry for the inconvenience, but could you
> >>> please try to leave at least one of the EV chargers available?"  I'd
> sign
> >>> it
> >>> something silly like "A member of the rare and endangered Nova Scotia
> >>> species, EV Driver."
> >>>
> >>> That's just off the top of my head, and I'm sure you can come up with
> >>> something much more creative and entertaining.
> >>>
> >>> But I think the key is to (at least at first) avoid being
> confrontational.
> >>> Assume they're polite people, which is probably easier to believe in
> >>> Canada
> >>> than in the US, and just need to be gently reminded of their manners.
> >>>
> >>> I love it! It's worth a try. :-)
> >>
> >> I remember a study on how hard it is to make signs that people will
> >> actually respond to. You have to somehow make it memorable, connect with
> >> the reader, and make him want to join "your" side. Humor is a good way
> to
> >> do this.
> >>
> >> For example, a sign that says simply "No littering" is completely
> useless.
> >> In contrast, one of the most effective was an old Pogo cartoon for Earth
> >> Day. It shows Pogo Possum attempting to clean up the litter in his
> beloved
> >> swamp. The caption reads, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
> >>
> >> --
> >> If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to
> >> each other.
> >>    (Mother Teresa)
> >> --
> >> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> >> /NEDRA)
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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 we would, with great happiness and alacrity, inform the parking police of illegally parked ICE vehicles in extremely clearly marked spaces, and they would get a parking ticket (we had 8 charging spots for around 80-100 EV's). the ticket could not be ignored as it was a -->federal<-- ticket and they track down scofflaws who fail to pay tickets ($40!)
    On Tuesday, December 12, 2017, 10:06:27 AM EST, Dan Baker via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:  
 
 Thanks Mark!  A bit more aggressive than thought, more like I was
originally suggesting?  Won't be able to cite any laws, don't think we have
any yet, big plus for California to be that far ahead.

I found a site dated back to 2012 that has a link to more gentle notices.

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2012/1026/Have-you-been-ICE-d-Drivers-promote-electric-car-parking-etiquette

Not which sure which method to deploy.  I have noticed there is one ICE car
that is there before me in the am and parks in the same EV spot every day,
even though the lot is mostly empty at that point. So this one looks to be
a true non-believer or even hater.

I have taken to facebook and created a local Nova Scotia Electric Vehicles
group to promote awareness. I have posted a pic of the lot issues and have
asked to have it shared.  I have blotted out the license plates, for now.

Cheers
Dan



On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Mark Abramowitz <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Here's the link:
>
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://evnut.com/
> docs/flyers/ev_parking_only.doc
>
> I'm told several versions were made. The maintainer of the site where this
> is housed (EVnut.com), and the author of this one suggested a little
> editing - “This vehicle” would become “your vehicle” and some of the
> “Electric Vehicle Recharging Station” redundancy could be eliminated.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 8, 2017, at 4:27 AM, Dan Baker via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hey everyone thanks for the response so far.  I agree now, better to try
> a
> > more friendly method then resort to push & threaten.  So frustrating
> > though, easy to get caught up.  Would love to see some of those printed
> > cards/flyers Mark!
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dan
> >
> >> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> >>
> >>> So maybe I'd try a bit of gentle humor.
> >>>
> >>> I'd park my EV behind an ICEd spot.  I'd have someone take a picture
> of me
> >>> holding the charging cable that I'd pulled out past the ICEV toward my
> EV
> >>> -
> >>> but darn it, it just won't quite reach.
> >>>
> >>> I'd make a windshield for the offending vehicles flyer with that pic,
> and
> >>> a
> >>> little text, something like "Sorry for the inconvenience, but could you
> >>> please try to leave at least one of the EV chargers available?"  I'd
> sign
> >>> it
> >>> something silly like "A member of the rare and endangered Nova Scotia
> >>> species, EV Driver."
> >>>
> >>> That's just off the top of my head, and I'm sure you can come up with
> >>> something much more creative and entertaining.
> >>>
> >>> But I think the key is to (at least at first) avoid being
> confrontational.
> >>> Assume they're polite people, which is probably easier to believe in
> >>> Canada
> >>> than in the US, and just need to be gently reminded of their manners.
> >>>
> >>> I love it! It's worth a try. :-)
> >>
> >> I remember a study on how hard it is to make signs that people will
> >> actually respond to. You have to somehow make it memorable, connect with
> >> the reader, and make him want to join "your" side. Humor is a good way
> to
> >> do this.
> >>
> >> For example, a sign that says simply "No littering" is completely
> useless.
> >> In contrast, one of the most effective was an old Pogo cartoon for Earth
> >> Day. It shows Pogo Possum attempting to clean up the litter in his
> beloved
> >> swamp. The caption reads, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
> >>
> >> --
> >> If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to
> >> each other.
> >>    (Mother Teresa)
> >> --
> >> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> >> /NEDRA)
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Don't wanna brag, but my employer does not charge for charging... at
least not yet. I do appreciate those chargers in Kent, one way from my
home in Oberlin to Kent just about drains the Leaf entirely.
Cal

> Rod Hower via EV <mailto:[hidden email]>
> December 11, 2017 at 6:31 PM
> There are 4 parking spots for EV's in the deck at downtown Kent.  Work
> pays for me to park in the deck but the Chargepoint chargers cost 35
> cents/kWhr (and that's the discounted rate for people that have deck
> parking, otherwise it's 54 cents/kWhr).  It's cheaper just to use gas
> in the Volt, so I don't charge there.  It's 42 miles round trip to
> work and in the summer I do EV only, but in the winter I have to use
> about 10 miles gas on cold days.  It would be nice if they charged a
> reasonable rate for charging!
>
>
> On Monday, December 11, 2017 5:46 PM, Cal Frye via EV
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> There is a bit of contention for spaces where I work. In my assigned
> garage, there is one L2 charging station, with one space designated for
> EVs. A week or so ago, the designated spot was occupied by a Volt that
> seemed to have been abandoned - it was parked in the space for four days
> straight, as far as I could tell.

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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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I've thought of getting a J1773 extension cable, bright orange and
marked "High Voltage" to drape across the intervening cars between me
and the charger. See who's brave enough to move that puppy!
Cal

> Dan Baker via EV <mailto:[hidden email]>
> December 12, 2017 at 10:06 AM
> ... I have noticed there is one ICE car
> that is there before me in the am and parks in the same EV spot every day,
> even though the lot is mostly empty at that point. So this one looks to be
> a true non-believer or even hater.

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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Yep, the first impulse is to be reactive. Unless you have the force to
> win, that usually results in an escalation or divisiveness. I read a
> political advice comment by someone who essentially recommended:
>
> - first agree with the person,
> - listen, build trust,
> - then present your needs without pushing an agenda.
>
> Meaning: understand that he sees no harm in parking in a space that is
> always vacant. You never know what the solution may turn out to be until
> you hear more. In your case, it might be hard to have that conversation,
> but a note with a phone number or email address could be a start.


I agree: you have to start out trying to understand their position, and
then see how you can bring them to your side.

Something to the effect of "I understand you probably don't see any harm in
parking here, since this space is usually vacant.  And certainly, if this
were the only vacant spot, and you were only going to be here a few
minutes, you'd probably park here.  However please understand that for an
electric vehicle owner like me, this spot is like my gas station - I have
to park at spots like this fo "fill up".   Just as you wouldn't park next
to a pump at a gas station if you weren't filling up with gas, please don't
park here unless you're filling up with electricity."

As a side note, this is why I tell anyone who'll listen that the best spots
for EV charging are those spots that are inconvenient.  Unfortunately the
reality of existing electricity outlets/connections makes that infeasible
much of the time.
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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Cal Frye via EV wrote:
> I've thought of getting a J1773 extension cable, bright orange and
> marked "High Voltage" to drape across the intervening cars between me
> and the charger. See who's brave enough to move that puppy!

I did not get keys when I bought my ComutaVan (rescued it from a
junkyard, actually). I had a key made for the ignition; but didn't have
one for the doors, so I could not lock it.

I bought one of those "Danger - High Voltage" warning signs, and put it
in the window. No one bothered it; in fact, they wouldn't even come near it.

One day, I happened to park in a puddle in the parking lot. As I was
walking to it, there was a mother and her little boy walking past it.
The little boy was interested, and headed right for my ComutaVan. The
mom grabbed him in a panic, and pulled him away. She wouldn't even let
him touch the puddle!

--
If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we
belong to each other. -- Mother Teresa
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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They were put at the most convenient spots because we wanted those who might become early adopters and those that create emissions to have an incentive for doing so.

Those that put them in got (and still get) incentives, too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 12, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Jorg Brown via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Yep, the first impulse is to be reactive. Unless you have the force to
>> win, that usually results in an escalation or divisiveness. I read a
>> political advice comment by someone who essentially recommended:
>>
>> - first agree with the person,
>> - listen, build trust,
>> - then present your needs without pushing an agenda.
>>
>> Meaning: understand that he sees no harm in parking in a space that is
>> always vacant. You never know what the solution may turn out to be until
>> you hear more. In your case, it might be hard to have that conversation,
>> but a note with a phone number or email address could be a start.
>
>
> I agree: you have to start out trying to understand their position, and
> then see how you can bring them to your side.
>
> Something to the effect of "I understand you probably don't see any harm in
> parking here, since this space is usually vacant.  And certainly, if this
> were the only vacant spot, and you were only going to be here a few
> minutes, you'd probably park here.  However please understand that for an
> electric vehicle owner like me, this spot is like my gas station - I have
> to park at spots like this fo "fill up".   Just as you wouldn't park next
> to a pump at a gas station if you weren't filling up with gas, please don't
> park here unless you're filling up with electricity."
>
> As a side note, this is why I tell anyone who'll listen that the best spots
> for EV charging are those spots that are inconvenient.  Unfortunately the
> reality of existing electricity outlets/connections makes that infeasible
> much of the time.
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Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

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On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Mark Abramowitz <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> They were put at the most convenient spots because we wanted those who
> might become early adopters and those that create emissions to have an
> incentive for doing so.
>

Yeah, I know; I remember those days and it seemed like a good idea at the
time.  I still know of places that have a "hybrid or electric car parking
only" sign, even though there is no charger there.

It works fine unless there is a shortage of parking spaces.  Once there's a
shortage, the situation changes: now you're not just saying that the
non-hybrid folks have to walk further; you're telling them that they may
have to walk much, much further, or even not come at all.  Not such a big
deal if there are often EVs or Hybrids in those spots, but if those spots
are usually empty, you just create resentment.  And resentment plays into
the hands of the "long tailpipe" crowd.

It's not just EV spots where this happens: here at work there is a shortage
of parking, but the handicapped spots and pregnant-mother spots are often
empty.
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