Combating ICED EV parking spaces

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
37 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I just let the police deal with it.  If possible nose in somewhere and plug in.  So far hasn't been a problem.  I guess I've been lucky or growing  conscience awareness of drivers is catching on.  Marking's and signs help.  Lawrence Rhodes
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/d51aab69/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Maybe someone will come up with a realistic, elaborately folded, paper
origami "Denver boot" as a humorous reminder not to park where you are
not supposed to.

An origami Denver boot might get their attention, or might not, but it
certainly wouldn't make someone too angry, at least someone with an iota
of humor.

Bill D.


On 12/13/2017 11:41 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> I just let the police deal with it.  If possible nose in somewhere and plug in.  So far hasn't been a problem.  I guess I've been lucky or growing  conscience awareness of drivers is catching on.  Marking's and signs help.  Lawrence Rhodes
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/d51aab69/attachment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
How about a sticker for the gas cap?

------ Original Message ------
From: "Bill Dube via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: "Bill Dube" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 13-Dec-17 11:47:51 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces

>Maybe someone will come up with a realistic, elaborately folded, paper
>origami "Denver boot" as a humorous reminder not to park where you are
>not supposed to.
>
>An origami Denver boot might get their attention, or might not, but it
>certainly wouldn't make someone too angry, at least someone with an
>iota of humor.
>
>Bill D.
>
>
>On 12/13/2017 11:41 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>>I just let the police deal with it.  If possible nose in somewhere and
>>plug in.  So far hasn't been a problem.  I guess I've been lucky or
>>growing  conscience awareness of drivers is catching on.  Marking's
>>and signs help.  Lawrence Rhodes
>>-------------- next part --------------
>>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>URL:
>><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/d51aab69/attachment.html>
>>_______________________________________________
>>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I was maliciously thinking the same, but a bumper sticker that reads "I
hate polar bears so much I park in EV spaces" lol.

On Dec 13, 2017 2:50 PM, "Peri Hartman via EV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How about a sticker for the gas cap?
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Bill Dube via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: "Bill Dube" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 13-Dec-17 11:47:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces
>
> Maybe someone will come up with a realistic, elaborately folded, paper
>> origami "Denver boot" as a humorous reminder not to park where you are not
>> supposed to.
>>
>> An origami Denver boot might get their attention, or might not, but it
>> certainly wouldn't make someone too angry, at least someone with an iota of
>> humor.
>>
>> Bill D.
>>
>>
>> On 12/13/2017 11:41 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>>
>>> I just let the police deal with it.  If possible nose in somewhere and
>>> plug in.  So far hasn't been a problem.  I guess I've been lucky or
>>> growing  conscience awareness of drivers is catching on.  Marking's and
>>> signs help.  Lawrence Rhodes
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/
>>> 20171213/d51aab69/attachment.html>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>>> /NEDRA)
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> /NEDRA)
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> /NEDRA)
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/09b05c6c/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

http://thenewswheel.com/does-putting-a-potato-in-a-cars-tailpipe-actually-cause-damage/
 ... stuffing party horns in a car’s tailpipe is a lot funnier ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4VLl-qghAY

No one should cause harm to the ice offender or their property.

Getting everyone to understand, an EV spot is NOT a parking spot.
*It is a charging spot.

There should be EV charging spot signage stating tow-away & fines if non-EVs
block the EV charging spot. And there must be a city or campus ordinance to
back the signage up. City or campus police then need to be educated by
making that ordinance part of their SOP (standard operating procedure).
Then you can call the police to enforce the ordinance by towing the ice away
(the ice offender won't do that again).



>a bumper sticker that reads "I hate polar bears so much I park in EV
spaces<

--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
It works both ways too.  I often see EV’s or plug in hybrids parked in the EV spot with either the charger not plugged or the charger at end of cycle.

As was noted it’s an EV charging spot, not an EV parking spot.  I often don’t bother with the EV spot because I don’t need the charge.

Regards,
Lawrence Harris
[hidden email]




> On Dec 13, 2017, at 12:26, brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> http://thenewswheel.com/does-putting-a-potato-in-a-cars-tailpipe-actually-cause-damage/
> ... stuffing party horns in a car’s tailpipe is a lot funnier ...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4VLl-qghAY
>
> No one should cause harm to the ice offender or their property.
>
> Getting everyone to understand, an EV spot is NOT a parking spot.
> *It is a charging spot.
>
> There should be EV charging spot signage stating tow-away & fines if non-EVs
> block the EV charging spot. And there must be a city or campus ordinance to
> back the signage up. City or campus police then need to be educated by
> making that ordinance part of their SOP (standard operating procedure).
> Then you can call the police to enforce the ordinance by towing the ice away
> (the ice offender won't do that again).
>
>
>
>> a bumper sticker that reads "I hate polar bears so much I park in EV
> spaces<
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/1cc31407/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
That is why it is so infuriating to see the same Tesla S always parked in the first EV charging stall at a local hospital,
clearly a member of the staff, never plugged in. And plenty other EVs scrambling to get the charging cords stretched
out to the adjacent parking spots when available,  there are 4 L2 charging spots and a few other L1 spaces for
opportunity charging, but I see adjacent non-EV charging spaces with EVs in them and cords stretched to the max
to reach those spaces, while the S sits there the whole day every day not charging.
Apparently, that person does not want to get the message, so unless the policies are changed and he is towed,
he is going to block the charging spot for everyone....

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Harris via EV
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:43 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Lawrence Harris
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces

It works both ways too.  I often see EV’s or plug in hybrids parked in the EV spot with either the charger not plugged or the charger at end of cycle.

As was noted it’s an EV charging spot, not an EV parking spot.  I often don’t bother with the EV spot because I don’t need the charge.

Regards,
Lawrence Harris
[hidden email]




> On Dec 13, 2017, at 12:26, brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> http://thenewswheel.com/does-putting-a-potato-in-a-cars-tailpipe-actua
> lly-cause-damage/ ... stuffing party horns in a car’s tailpipe is a
> lot funnier ...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4VLl-qghAY
>
> No one should cause harm to the ice offender or their property.
>
> Getting everyone to understand, an EV spot is NOT a parking spot.
> *It is a charging spot.
>
> There should be EV charging spot signage stating tow-away & fines if
> non-EVs block the EV charging spot. And there must be a city or campus
> ordinance to back the signage up. City or campus police then need to
> be educated by making that ordinance part of their SOP (standard operating procedure).
> Then you can call the police to enforce the ordinance by towing the
> ice away (the ice offender won't do that again).
>
>
>
>> a bumper sticker that reads "I hate polar bears so much I park in EV
> spaces<
>
> --
> Sent from:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/1cc31407/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that goes green while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the end of charge and red when done.  A (not so) subtle hint of the state of the charging spot - in use through to hogging.  It would make parking attendants able to credit say a 1 hour limit after charge end before getting a ticket.  I know charge point and sometime my car both let me know when it’s finished charging.  I am sure others do to.

Regards,
Lawrence Harris
[hidden email]




> On Dec 13, 2017, at 12:55, Cor van de Water <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That is why it is so infuriating to see the same Tesla S always parked in the first EV charging stall at a local hospital,
> clearly a member of the staff, never plugged in. And plenty other EVs scrambling to get the charging cords stretched
> out to the adjacent parking spots when available,  there are 4 L2 charging spots and a few other L1 spaces for
> opportunity charging, but I see adjacent non-EV charging spaces with EVs in them and cords stretched to the max
> to reach those spaces, while the S sits there the whole day every day not charging.
> Apparently, that person does not want to get the message, so unless the policies are changed and he is towed,
> he is going to block the charging spot for everyone....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Harris via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:43 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: Lawrence Harris
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces
>
> It works both ways too.  I often see EV’s or plug in hybrids parked in the EV spot with either the charger not plugged or the charger at end of cycle.
>
> As was noted it’s an EV charging spot, not an EV parking spot.  I often don’t bother with the EV spot because I don’t need the charge.
>
> Regards,
> Lawrence Harris
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 12:26, brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://thenewswheel.com/does-putting-a-potato-in-a-cars-tailpipe-actua
>> lly-cause-damage/ ... stuffing party horns in a car’s tailpipe is a
>> lot funnier ...
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4VLl-qghAY
>>
>> No one should cause harm to the ice offender or their property.
>>
>> Getting everyone to understand, an EV spot is NOT a parking spot.
>> *It is a charging spot.
>>
>> There should be EV charging spot signage stating tow-away & fines if
>> non-EVs block the EV charging spot. And there must be a city or campus
>> ordinance to back the signage up. City or campus police then need to
>> be educated by making that ordinance part of their SOP (standard operating procedure).
>> Then you can call the police to enforce the ordinance by towing the
>> ice away (the ice offender won't do that again).
>>
>>
>>
>>> a bumper sticker that reads "I hate polar bears so much I park in EV
>> spaces<
>>
>> --
>> Sent from:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/1cc31407/attachment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/9070fe81/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:08, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote:

> I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that goes green
> while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the end of charge and red
> when done.

Outstanding idea, but I'd recomment the exact opposite of the colors -- red
for bulk charging, amber for absorption (last 20%), and green for charged.

That's  because almost every other charger used on personal gadgets (phones,
cordless drills, and so on) uses those colors or something similar. It's
read for charging, green for done, and sometimes you get yellow or flashing
green during the absorption phase.  I don't think I've ever seen any other
charger that was lit up red when it was finished, except for a couple that
never changed color.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Correct,
Green means "available" so you would instinctively expect an empty spot
at a green light.
I would suggest a slight change to the meaning of the colors:
Red = charging (no matter how fast/slow)
Yellow = charging ended, spot should be vacated as soon as possible
(grace timer)
Green = charging and grace timer ended, spot is available (even if full
EV still plugged in).

Anybody parked in a "green light" spot is suceptible to ticketing and
towing.
Grace time can be tuned to match need/demand, with appropriate signage.

When a "yellow" charging space is vacated, an EV can immediately plug in
and turn the
spot to "Red" again.
If a spot next to the EV charging spot is available and an EV arrives
that urgently needs a charge,
it should be perfectly fine to unplug a "Yellow" or "Green" charger.
Preferably he leaves a note at the car, how to contact him and how long
he needs to charge
before it is OK to unplug when the official EV charging spot is in use
again.

Note that it is possible to implement a max charging time with this as
well:
Towards the end of the max charge time the light turns yellow and when
the charge time
has expired, it stops charging but may allow an additional grace time
before the light
turns green again and you should be on your way (or moved out of the
spot at least).
At companies with high contention for too few spaces, it makes sense to
force everyone
to switch during lunch time (for example max 4 hours charging).

Many EVs already announce how long charging is going to take, so it
should be
no surprise how long one can leave the car before it needs to be moved.
Obviously it is user friendly if the charging station sends you a txt
when charging ends
and the grace time starts.

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EVDL
Administrator via EV
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 1:40 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EVDL Administrator
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces

On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:08, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote:

> I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that
> goes green while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the
> end of charge and red when done.

Outstanding idea, but I'd recomment the exact opposite of the colors --
red for bulk charging, amber for absorption (last 20%), and green for
charged.

That's  because almost every other charger used on personal gadgets
(phones, cordless drills, and so on) uses those colors or something
similar. It's read for charging, green for done, and sometimes you get
yellow or flashing green during the absorption phase.  I don't think
I've ever seen any other charger that was lit up red when it was
finished, except for a couple that never changed color.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL
Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:55, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

> Anybody parked in a "green light" spot is suceptible to ticketing and
> towing.

I don't think that insisting people take time out from work to move their
cars when charged, subject to their cars being ticketed or towed, is the way
to get more of them into EVs.  

From an employer's perspective, such interruptions don't help productivity.

What if you're in a critical meeting when the "time's up" message arrives?

I'd rather see employers install enough EVSEs to support all their EV
drivers, but that's probably unrealistic.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I am thinking we are talking about malls and other public charging stations and that there would be a grace period after charging completes.  Businesses that supply EV charging (I had such for a few years) can set their own rules.

Regards,
Lawrence Harris
[hidden email]




> On Dec 13, 2017, at 17:24, EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:55, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>
>> Anybody parked in a "green light" spot is suceptible to ticketing and
>> towing.
>
> I don't think that insisting people take time out from work to move their
> cars when charged, subject to their cars being ticketed or towed, is the way
> to get more of them into EVs.  
>
> From an employer's perspective, such interruptions don't help productivity.
>
> What if you're in a critical meeting when the "time's up" message arrives?
>
> I'd rather see employers install enough EVSEs to support all their EV
> drivers, but that's probably unrealistic.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171213/b701ad47/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I say put 120v outlets in every spot and let people park where they want.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 13, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Correct,
> Green means "available" so you would instinctively expect an empty spot
> at a green light.
> I would suggest a slight change to the meaning of the colors:
> Red = charging (no matter how fast/slow)
> Yellow = charging ended, spot should be vacated as soon as possible
> (grace timer)
> Green = charging and grace timer ended, spot is available (even if full
> EV still plugged in).
>
> Anybody parked in a "green light" spot is suceptible to ticketing and
> towing.
> Grace time can be tuned to match need/demand, with appropriate signage.
>
> When a "yellow" charging space is vacated, an EV can immediately plug in
> and turn the
> spot to "Red" again.
> If a spot next to the EV charging spot is available and an EV arrives
> that urgently needs a charge,
> it should be perfectly fine to unplug a "Yellow" or "Green" charger.
> Preferably he leaves a note at the car, how to contact him and how long
> he needs to charge
> before it is OK to unplug when the official EV charging spot is in use
> again.
>
> Note that it is possible to implement a max charging time with this as
> well:
> Towards the end of the max charge time the light turns yellow and when
> the charge time
> has expired, it stops charging but may allow an additional grace time
> before the light
> turns green again and you should be on your way (or moved out of the
> spot at least).
> At companies with high contention for too few spaces, it makes sense to
> force everyone
> to switch during lunch time (for example max 4 hours charging).
>
> Many EVs already announce how long charging is going to take, so it
> should be
> no surprise how long one can leave the car before it needs to be moved.
> Obviously it is user friendly if the charging station sends you a txt
> when charging ends
> and the grace time starts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EVDL
> Administrator via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 1:40 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: EVDL Administrator
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces
>
>> On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:08, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote:
>>
>> I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that
>> goes green while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the
>> end of charge and red when done.
>
> Outstanding idea, but I'd recomment the exact opposite of the colors --
> red for bulk charging, amber for absorption (last 20%), and green for
> charged.
>
> That's  because almost every other charger used on personal gadgets
> (phones, cordless drills, and so on) uses those colors or something
> similar. It's read for charging, green for done, and sometimes you get
> yellow or flashing green during the absorption phase.  I don't think
> I've ever seen any other charger that was lit up red when it was
> finished, except for a couple that never changed color.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL
> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
> webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I tend to agree with Paul.
The installation of 120vac outlets are a tiny fraction of the price of
the installation of L2 charging pedestals.
If you spread them around over many parking places, (like they do in the
great white north for block heater outlets) there will be less
competition and contention over them.
Keep in mind that a single 120vac 20 amp outlet can easily supply an EV
with 50 or 60 or perhaps 70 miles of charge over a 8 hour workday. This
covers 99% of commutes.

Level 2 or 3 may be what is sexy and flashy, but Level 1 is probably
optimal for charging at work, given all the constraints. The ~$7k you
would spend on installation a Level 2 charger pedestal would easily pay
for 20 Level 1 outlets spread over 20 parking places.

Bill D.

On 12/14/2017 6:13 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:

> I say put 120v outlets in every spot and let people park where they want.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Correct,
>> Green means "available" so you would instinctively expect an empty spot
>> at a green light.
>> I would suggest a slight change to the meaning of the colors:
>> Red = charging (no matter how fast/slow)
>> Yellow = charging ended, spot should be vacated as soon as possible
>> (grace timer)
>> Green = charging and grace timer ended, spot is available (even if full
>> EV still plugged in).
>>
>> Anybody parked in a "green light" spot is suceptible to ticketing and
>> towing.
>> Grace time can be tuned to match need/demand, with appropriate signage.
>>
>> When a "yellow" charging space is vacated, an EV can immediately plug in
>> and turn the
>> spot to "Red" again.
>> If a spot next to the EV charging spot is available and an EV arrives
>> that urgently needs a charge,
>> it should be perfectly fine to unplug a "Yellow" or "Green" charger.
>> Preferably he leaves a note at the car, how to contact him and how long
>> he needs to charge
>> before it is OK to unplug when the official EV charging spot is in use
>> again.
>>
>> Note that it is possible to implement a max charging time with this as
>> well:
>> Towards the end of the max charge time the light turns yellow and when
>> the charge time
>> has expired, it stops charging but may allow an additional grace time
>> before the light
>> turns green again and you should be on your way (or moved out of the
>> spot at least).
>> At companies with high contention for too few spaces, it makes sense to
>> force everyone
>> to switch during lunch time (for example max 4 hours charging).
>>
>> Many EVs already announce how long charging is going to take, so it
>> should be
>> no surprise how long one can leave the car before it needs to be moved.
>> Obviously it is user friendly if the charging station sends you a txt
>> when charging ends
>> and the grace time starts.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EVDL
>> Administrator via EV
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 1:40 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Cc: EVDL Administrator
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces
>>
>>> On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:08, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote:
>>>
>>> I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that
>>> goes green while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the
>>> end of charge and red when done.
>> Outstanding idea, but I'd recomment the exact opposite of the colors --
>> red for bulk charging, amber for absorption (last 20%), and green for
>> charged.
>>
>> That's  because almost every other charger used on personal gadgets
>> (phones, cordless drills, and so on) uses those colors or something
>> similar. It's read for charging, green for done, and sometimes you get
>> yellow or flashing green during the absorption phase.  I don't think
>> I've ever seen any other charger that was lit up red when it was
>> finished, except for a couple that never changed color.
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL
>> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
>> webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
A mix of options would be preferable IMO. L1 outlets in most places, and some L2 stations marked with signs saying 4 hour limits. A notification system that charging is done or that a space is available would be a nice enhancement.

One thing is I'm not convinced that providing L1 120v outlets is actually much less expensive than providing L2 240v outlets (note I said outlet here, not EVSE/station). Why? Because the wire and conduit will need to be sized according to the continuous current demand. This in turn means using at least 10 or 12 gauge wire to keep voltage drop at 12 amps over some distances. Big parking areas could need even larger wire just to handle voltage drop. At 240v, voltage drop will have less of an effect (percentage wise) for the same distance. In short, 240v outlets like NEMA 6-20 allow for smaller wire or longer distances.
The other aspect the number of outlets per circuit. 240v is commonly done as 1 outlet per circuit wheres 120v often has several outlets per circuit. This works for 120v because most loads are intermittent high loads (microwave, vacuum) or low continuous (lights, TV). EVSE loads are generally high continous. L1 EVSEs usually limit themselves to 12 amps; in a parking lot, that would need one circuit per parking space assuming EVSEs all were active at once together. In short, 240v needs the same number of circuits. (One difference, though, is 240v will use 2x the electric panel circuit breaker slots.)

It is also possible to do this with power rationing. Several OpenEVSE based solutions have been developed to allow multiple vehicles to share a single 240v circuit. Tesla has also done this with their high power wall chargers that allows up to 4 be linked together.

My recommendation: run wire/conduit that allows for an easy conversion from 120v to 240v circuits. If providing dedicated outlets, plan on 12 amps per actively used parking space. If using linked EVSEs then check the EVSE specs to see its sharing capabilities.

Last consideration: I am getting the impression that newer EV owners tend not to be as interested in pulling out an EVSE each day to connect their cars. Doing so is a hassle (esp rolling cord up afterwards) and it leaves their personal EVSE vulnerable to incidents.


On December 14, 2017 11:32:32 AM CST, Bill Dube via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I tend to agree with Paul.
>The installation of 120vac outlets are a tiny fraction of the price of
>the installation of L2 charging pedestals.
>If you spread them around over many parking places, (like they do in
>the
>great white north for block heater outlets) there will be less
>competition and contention over them.
>Keep in mind that a single 120vac 20 amp outlet can easily supply an EV
>
>with 50 or 60 or perhaps 70 miles of charge over a 8 hour workday. This
>
>covers 99% of commutes.
>
>Level 2 or 3 may be what is sexy and flashy, but Level 1 is probably
>optimal for charging at work, given all the constraints. The ~$7k you
>would spend on installation a Level 2 charger pedestal would easily pay
>
>for 20 Level 1 outlets spread over 20 parking places.
>
>Bill D.
>
>On 12/14/2017 6:13 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:
>> I say put 120v outlets in every spot and let people park where they
>want.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
><[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Correct,
>>> Green means "available" so you would instinctively expect an empty
>spot
>>> at a green light.
>>> I would suggest a slight change to the meaning of the colors:
>>> Red = charging (no matter how fast/slow)
>>> Yellow = charging ended, spot should be vacated as soon as possible
>>> (grace timer)
>>> Green = charging and grace timer ended, spot is available (even if
>full
>>> EV still plugged in).
>>>
>>> Anybody parked in a "green light" spot is suceptible to ticketing
>and
>>> towing.
>>> Grace time can be tuned to match need/demand, with appropriate
>signage.
>>>
>>> When a "yellow" charging space is vacated, an EV can immediately
>plug in
>>> and turn the
>>> spot to "Red" again.
>>> If a spot next to the EV charging spot is available and an EV
>arrives
>>> that urgently needs a charge,
>>> it should be perfectly fine to unplug a "Yellow" or "Green" charger.
>>> Preferably he leaves a note at the car, how to contact him and how
>long
>>> he needs to charge
>>> before it is OK to unplug when the official EV charging spot is in
>use
>>> again.
>>>
>>> Note that it is possible to implement a max charging time with this
>as
>>> well:
>>> Towards the end of the max charge time the light turns yellow and
>when
>>> the charge time
>>> has expired, it stops charging but may allow an additional grace
>time
>>> before the light
>>> turns green again and you should be on your way (or moved out of the
>>> spot at least).
>>> At companies with high contention for too few spaces, it makes sense
>to
>>> force everyone
>>> to switch during lunch time (for example max 4 hours charging).
>>>
>>> Many EVs already announce how long charging is going to take, so it
>>> should be
>>> no surprise how long one can leave the car before it needs to be
>moved.
>>> Obviously it is user friendly if the charging station sends you a
>txt
>>> when charging ends
>>> and the grace time starts.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EVDL
>>> Administrator via EV
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 1:40 PM
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>> Cc: EVDL Administrator
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces
>>>
>>>> On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:08, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that
>>>> goes green while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the
>>>> end of charge and red when done.
>>> Outstanding idea, but I'd recomment the exact opposite of the colors
>--
>>> red for bulk charging, amber for absorption (last 20%), and green
>for
>>> charged.
>>>
>>> That's  because almost every other charger used on personal gadgets
>>> (phones, cordless drills, and so on) uses those colors or something
>>> similar. It's read for charging, green for done, and sometimes you
>get
>>> yellow or flashing green during the absorption phase.  I don't think
>>> I've ever seen any other charger that was lit up red when it was
>>> finished, except for a couple that never changed color.
>>>
>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>> EVDL Administrator
>>>
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL
>>> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>= =
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach
>me.
>>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
>>> webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171214/591cfc35/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
The color code on the charger in the CWRU garage is visible and clear,
although a bit different.
Green - disconnected/available for charge
Blue - charging
Yellow - connected, but done charging.

And I agree, several 120V outlets would help greatly, but there don't
seem to be any installed!
Cal

> Lawrence Harris via EV <mailto:[hidden email]>
> December 13, 2017 at 4:08 PM
> I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that
> goes green while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the
> end of charge and red when done. A (not so) subtle hint of the state
> of the charging spot - in use through to hogging. It would make
> parking attendants able to credit say a 1 hour limit after charge end
> before getting a ticket. I know charge point and sometime my car both
> let me know when it’s finished charging. I am sure others do to.
>
> Regards,
> Lawrence Harris
> [hidden email]

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171214/ee358e37/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Combating ICED EV parking spaces

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Not too many convenience chargers accept 240V, almost all are set up for
110V only (in USA).
When you only provide an outlet, the EV driver needs to use their EVSE
instead of just plugging in the cord.
NOTE that the situation is radically different in Europe, where you only
find a pole sitting at the edge of a parking slot
with a Mennekes plug (if I am not mistaken).
The EV driver brings the cord to plug into the charging pole and into
the car. It is just a wire though, not a complete EVSE.
I have considered installing an EVSE at work without the cord (as we
have frequent events of copper thieves passing by)
by installing a standard plug on the EVSE such as a L14-50 socket and
make the cord available at the front lobby for anyone who
needs to plug in - just the cord with the L14-50 plug on one end and the
J1772 at the other end.
Without exposed wire, the copper thieves will not bother the charger.
Cor.

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Haudy Kazemi
via EV
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:30 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Bill Dube via EV;
[hidden email]
Cc: Haudy Kazemi
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces

A mix of options would be preferable IMO. L1 outlets in most places, and
some L2 stations marked with signs saying 4 hour limits. A notification
system that charging is done or that a space is available would be a
nice enhancement.

One thing is I'm not convinced that providing L1 120v outlets is
actually much less expensive than providing L2 240v outlets (note I said
outlet here, not EVSE/station). Why? Because the wire and conduit will
need to be sized according to the continuous current demand. This in
turn means using at least 10 or 12 gauge wire to keep voltage drop at 12
amps over some distances. Big parking areas could need even larger wire
just to handle voltage drop. At 240v, voltage drop will have less of an
effect (percentage wise) for the same distance. In short, 240v outlets
like NEMA 6-20 allow for smaller wire or longer distances.
The other aspect the number of outlets per circuit. 240v is commonly
done as 1 outlet per circuit wheres 120v often has several outlets per
circuit. This works for 120v because most loads are intermittent high
loads (microwave, vacuum) or low continuous (lights, TV). EVSE loads are
generally high continous. L1 EVSEs usually limit themselves to 12 amps;
in a parking lot, that would need one circuit per parking space assuming
EVSEs all were active at once together. In short, 240v needs the same
number of circuits. (One difference, though, is 240v will use 2x the
electric panel circuit breaker slots.)

It is also possible to do this with power rationing. Several OpenEVSE
based solutions have been developed to allow multiple vehicles to share
a single 240v circuit. Tesla has also done this with their high power
wall chargers that allows up to 4 be linked together.

My recommendation: run wire/conduit that allows for an easy conversion
from 120v to 240v circuits. If providing dedicated outlets, plan on 12
amps per actively used parking space. If using linked EVSEs then check
the EVSE specs to see its sharing capabilities.

Last consideration: I am getting the impression that newer EV owners
tend not to be as interested in pulling out an EVSE each day to connect
their cars. Doing so is a hassle (esp rolling cord up afterwards) and it
leaves their personal EVSE vulnerable to incidents.


On December 14, 2017 11:32:32 AM CST, Bill Dube via EV
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>I tend to agree with Paul.
>The installation of 120vac outlets are a tiny fraction of the price of
>the installation of L2 charging pedestals.
>If you spread them around over many parking places, (like they do in
>the great white north for block heater outlets) there will be less
>competition and contention over them.
>Keep in mind that a single 120vac 20 amp outlet can easily supply an EV
>
>with 50 or 60 or perhaps 70 miles of charge over a 8 hour workday. This
>
>covers 99% of commutes.
>
>Level 2 or 3 may be what is sexy and flashy, but Level 1 is probably
>optimal for charging at work, given all the constraints. The ~$7k you
>would spend on installation a Level 2 charger pedestal would easily pay
>
>for 20 Level 1 outlets spread over 20 parking places.
>
>Bill D.
>
>On 12/14/2017 6:13 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:
>> I say put 120v outlets in every spot and let people park where they
>want.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 13, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
><[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Correct,
>>> Green means "available" so you would instinctively expect an empty
>spot
>>> at a green light.
>>> I would suggest a slight change to the meaning of the colors:
>>> Red = charging (no matter how fast/slow) Yellow = charging ended,
>>> spot should be vacated as soon as possible (grace timer) Green =
>>> charging and grace timer ended, spot is available (even if
>full
>>> EV still plugged in).
>>>
>>> Anybody parked in a "green light" spot is suceptible to ticketing
>and
>>> towing.
>>> Grace time can be tuned to match need/demand, with appropriate
>signage.
>>>
>>> When a "yellow" charging space is vacated, an EV can immediately
>plug in
>>> and turn the
>>> spot to "Red" again.
>>> If a spot next to the EV charging spot is available and an EV
>arrives
>>> that urgently needs a charge,
>>> it should be perfectly fine to unplug a "Yellow" or "Green" charger.
>>> Preferably he leaves a note at the car, how to contact him and how
>long
>>> he needs to charge
>>> before it is OK to unplug when the official EV charging spot is in
>use
>>> again.
>>>
>>> Note that it is possible to implement a max charging time with this
>as
>>> well:
>>> Towards the end of the max charge time the light turns yellow and
>when
>>> the charge time
>>> has expired, it stops charging but may allow an additional grace
>time
>>> before the light
>>> turns green again and you should be on your way (or moved out of the

>>> spot at least).
>>> At companies with high contention for too few spaces, it makes sense
>to
>>> force everyone
>>> to switch during lunch time (for example max 4 hours charging).
>>>
>>> Many EVs already announce how long charging is going to take, so it
>>> should be no surprise how long one can leave the car before it needs

>>> to be
>moved.
>>> Obviously it is user friendly if the charging station sends you a
>txt
>>> when charging ends
>>> and the grace time starts.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of EVDL
>>> Administrator via EV
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 1:40 PM
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>> Cc: EVDL Administrator
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces
>>>
>>>> On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:08, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that
>>>> goes green while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the

>>>> end of charge and red when done.
>>> Outstanding idea, but I'd recomment the exact opposite of the colors
>--
>>> red for bulk charging, amber for absorption (last 20%), and green
>for
>>> charged.
>>>
>>> That's  because almost every other charger used on personal gadgets
>>> (phones, cordless drills, and so on) uses those colors or something
>>> similar. It's read for charging, green for done, and sometimes you
>get
>>> yellow or flashing green during the absorption phase.  I don't think

>>> I've ever seen any other charger that was lit up red when it was
>>> finished, except for a couple that never changed color.
>>>
>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>> EVDL Administrator
>>>
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL
>>> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>= =
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach
>me.
>>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
>>> webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171214/591c
fc35/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

12