DC-DC Converter Recommendation

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DC-DC Converter Recommendation

corbin dunn
Hi All,
My IOTA DLS-55 seems to have bit the dust (again). I haven't torn it apart yet, but I know I'm going to replace it.

Does anyone know the rough current requirements for a standard VW bug?  55 amps seemed excessive, so I'm wondering if a 25 amp converter will be sufficient. Yes, I should measure it, but I don't quite know how with what I have.

I do run with a 12v accessory battery, but it is tiny. I only turn on the DC-DC converter via a relay when "key on" happens; all other times it is off. I think this is part of the problem why my IOTA failed; it doesn't like the constant inrush of current, even with the current limiter fix I put into it.

I'm considering the Kelly HWZ Series DC/DC Converter 156V to 13.5V 25A

http://kellycontroller.com/hwz-series-dcdc-converter-156v-to-135v-25a-p-536.html ($150)

Other possibilities:

Beltronix (35A, or with forced air cooling, higher).Unknown price.
http://www.belktronix.com/isodcdc.html

Maybe a Zivan ($525 -- pricey)
http://www.evolveelectrics.com/DC-DC%20Converters.html#elcondcdc

Any advice on what works well for a 154v nominal pack?

-corbin

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Bob Bath
I'm running Belktronix' 60A DCDC and no issues.  The thing is bulletproof!  FYI, I run it with cooling fins, but no forced air.  After using a lower current model of another brand, I'd never go back to anything below 60A.  My wipers won't stay fast enough, headlights dim, etc.

Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic?  See http://home.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html for DVD and tons more info!
                ____
             __/__|__\__
   =D-------/   -   -   \
            'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
OR Lic. "LCTRNS"


--- On Sat, 4/9/11, corbin dunn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: corbin dunn <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] DC-DC Converter Recommendation
> To: "EVDL Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 4:34 PM
> Hi All,
> My IOTA DLS-55 seems to have bit the dust (again). I
> haven't torn it apart yet, but I know I'm going to replace
> it.
>
> Does anyone know the rough current requirements for a
> standard VW bug?  55 amps seemed excessive, so I'm
> wondering if a 25 amp converter will be sufficient. Yes, I
> should measure it, but I don't quite know how with what I
> have.
>
> I do run with a 12v accessory battery, but it is tiny. I
> only turn on the DC-DC converter via a relay when "key on"
> happens; all other times it is off. I think this is part of
> the problem why my IOTA failed; it doesn't like the constant
> inrush of current, even with the current limiter fix I put
> into it.
>
> I'm considering the Kelly HWZ Series DC/DC Converter 156V
> to 13.5V 25A
>
> http://kellycontroller.com/hwz-series-dcdc-converter-156v-to-135v-25a-p-536.html
> ($150)
>
> Other possibilities:
>
> Beltronix (35A, or with forced air cooling, higher).Unknown
> price.
> http://www.belktronix.com/isodcdc.html
>
> Maybe a Zivan ($525 -- pricey)
> http://www.evolveelectrics.com/DC-DC%20Converters.html#elcondcdc
>
> Any advice on what works well for a 154v nominal pack?
>
> -corbin
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email]
> only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>


     

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
I'm running an Elcon rated for 132-168V.  It's a 25A unit and seems to be
working fine for my Honda del Sol.  I still have the standard battery on the
del Sol.  I got it from EV America.  Shipping was quick.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of corbin dunn
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 5:35 PM
To: EVDL Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Hi All,
My IOTA DLS-55 seems to have bit the dust (again). I haven't torn it apart
yet, but I know I'm going to replace it.

Does anyone know the rough current requirements for a standard VW bug?  55
amps seemed excessive, so I'm wondering if a 25 amp converter will be
sufficient. Yes, I should measure it, but I don't quite know how with what I
have.

I do run with a 12v accessory battery, but it is tiny. I only turn on the
DC-DC converter via a relay when "key on" happens; all other times it is
off. I think this is part of the problem why my IOTA failed; it doesn't like
the constant inrush of current, even with the current limiter fix I put into
it.

I'm considering the Kelly HWZ Series DC/DC Converter 156V to 13.5V 25A

http://kellycontroller.com/hwz-series-dcdc-converter-156v-to-135v-25a-p-536.
html ($150)

Other possibilities:

Beltronix (35A, or with forced air cooling, higher).Unknown price.
http://www.belktronix.com/isodcdc.html

Maybe a Zivan ($525 -- pricey)
http://www.evolveelectrics.com/DC-DC%20Converters.html#elcondcdc

Any advice on what works well for a 154v nominal pack?

-corbin

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Bill Dube
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
You might try reversing the polarity of the input leads. Can't hurt to try.

The full-wave input rectifier is sized to have each half carry half
the wattage. When you run it on DC at full load, you tend to
"torture" the half of the rectifier you happen to have chosen.

I leave the DC-DC running all the time. I replaced the cooling fan
with a higher-quality unit after ~7 years in 2003.

Bill D.


At 05:34 PM 4/9/2011, you wrote:

>Hi All,
>My IOTA DLS-55 seems to have bit the dust (again). I haven't torn it
>apart yet, but I know I'm going to replace it.
>
>Does anyone know the rough current requirements for a standard VW
>bug?  55 amps seemed excessive, so I'm wondering if a 25 amp
>converter will be sufficient. Yes, I should measure it, but I don't
>quite know how with what I have.
>
>I do run with a 12v accessory battery, but it is tiny. I only turn
>on the DC-DC converter via a relay when "key on" happens; all other
>times it is off. I think this is part of the problem why my IOTA
>failed; it doesn't like the constant inrush of current, even with
>the current limiter fix I put into it.
>
>I'm considering the Kelly HWZ Series DC/DC Converter 156V to 13.5V 25A
>
>http://kellycontroller.com/hwz-series-dcdc-converter-156v-to-135v-25a-p-536.html 
>($150)
>
>Other possibilities:
>
>Beltronix (35A, or with forced air cooling, higher).Unknown price.
>http://www.belktronix.com/isodcdc.html
>
>Maybe a Zivan ($525 -- pricey)
>http://www.evolveelectrics.com/DC-DC%20Converters.html#elcondcdc
>
>Any advice on what works well for a 154v nominal pack?
>
>-corbin
>
>_______________________________________________
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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

corbin dunn
Hi Bill and all,

Thanks for the advice. Anyone else have a brand they are running that they are happy with?

RE: swapping input leads -- the thing that is failing is the inrush limiter; they just crumble after a while, probably from it running too hot. (So, the input rectifier is out of the equation as I removed it). I have two more lower resistance/higher amp ones that I may try for a while to see how they work while I wait for another converter.

Has anyone used a Mean Well SP-500? IE:

http://www.meanwell.com/search/sp-500/sp-500-spec.pdf

It sort of looks similar to an IOTA, so I'm not sure it is good.

I also found some solid state Vicor's on ebay that I'm considering:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VICOR-DC-DC-Converter-VI-251-09-200V-250W-/190520444458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5be7462a#ht_500wt_913 

However, only 20amps out (250w), but I hear solid states are better for reliability and efficiency. Can these guy's be run in parallel? Maybe I'll get two and have 40 amp output.

-corbin



On Apr 9, 2011, at 8:08 PM, Bill Dube wrote:

> You might try reversing the polarity of the input leads. Can't hurt to try.
>
> The full-wave input rectifier is sized to have each half carry half
> the wattage. When you run it on DC at full load, you tend to
> "torture" the half of the rectifier you happen to have chosen.
>
> I leave the DC-DC running all the time. I replaced the cooling fan
> with a higher-quality unit after ~7 years in 2003.
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> At 05:34 PM 4/9/2011, you wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> My IOTA DLS-55 seems to have bit the dust (again). I haven't torn it
>> apart yet, but I know I'm going to replace it.
>>
>> Does anyone know the rough current requirements for a standard VW
>> bug?  55 amps seemed excessive, so I'm wondering if a 25 amp
>> converter will be sufficient. Yes, I should measure it, but I don't
>> quite know how with what I have.
>>
>> I do run with a 12v accessory battery, but it is tiny. I only turn
>> on the DC-DC converter via a relay when "key on" happens; all other
>> times it is off. I think this is part of the problem why my IOTA
>> failed; it doesn't like the constant inrush of current, even with
>> the current limiter fix I put into it.
>>
>> I'm considering the Kelly HWZ Series DC/DC Converter 156V to 13.5V 25A
>>
>> http://kellycontroller.com/hwz-series-dcdc-converter-156v-to-135v-25a-p-536.html 
>> ($150)
>>
>> Other possibilities:
>>
>> Beltronix (35A, or with forced air cooling, higher).Unknown price.
>> http://www.belktronix.com/isodcdc.html
>>
>> Maybe a Zivan ($525 -- pricey)
>> http://www.evolveelectrics.com/DC-DC%20Converters.html#elcondcdc
>>
>> Any advice on what works well for a 154v nominal pack?
>>
>> -corbin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Russco
As everyone knows, the IOTA was never intended for an EV DC-DC converter.

They are very popular in hobbyist EV conversions, probably due to the low
cost (read cheap).

I use the Vicor modules you are inquiring about below.  You do not want
the 12 volt output version since the HV trip is 10% or 13.2 volts, too low
for a 12 volt system.  You would want the 15 volt output module, which can
be trimmed down to the desired 14 volts or so.  The VI series masters
cannot be paralleled; a booster module (s) is required for the slaves.
One master and one slave =  200 + 200 watts = 400 watts or 26.6 A.

The Vicor modules are not "plug in" ready to go. The modules require
mounting on a heat sink, input and output fusing, reverse polarity
protection and LC input filtering.

That said, Vicor modules are extremely high quality devices, Made In USA,
and Vicor will stand behind their product.

My website under "Russco's EV" has a picture of a Russco DC-DC converter
using two Vicor modules.

Russ Kaufmann

RUSSCO Engineering

http://russcoev.com

240 Volt Hi Power Charger


> RE: swapping input leads -- the thing that is failing is the inrush
> limiter; they just crumble after a while, probably from it running too
> hot. (So, the input rectifier is out of the equation as I removed it). I
> have two more lower resistance/higher amp ones that I may try for a while
> to see how they work while I wait for another converter.

>
> I also found some solid state Vicor's on ebay that I'm considering:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/VICOR-DC-DC-Converter-VI-251-09-200V-250W-/190520444458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5be7462a#ht_500wt_913
>
> However, only 20amps out (250w), but I hear solid states are better for
> reliability and efficiency. Can these guy's be run in parallel? Maybe I'll
> get two and have 40 amp output.
>
> -corbin


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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

damon henry
In reply to this post by corbin dunn

Neither the inrush limiter or the rectifier are actually required for you application.  Of course if I remember correctly you first started on this because you were blowing a fuse somewhere, which lead to adding the inrush limiters.
You can just hook your DC/DC straight up to your pack with neither of these and leave it that way.  There will be a big snap when you make the connection, but after that nothing, and doing this on occasion should not significantly shorten the life on any of the components.  If you want to frequently connect/disconnect your DC/DC use two switches and one resistor.  Turn on the first switch which connects the DC/DC through the resistor thus limiting the inrush current.  Once the DC/DC is fully on, use the second switch to bypass the resistor.  Some people like to use a light bulb as the limiting resistor as it gives you a visual indication of when you can flip the second switch.  The inrush limiter you have been struggling with is a component that essentially achieves these two steps for you automatically, however for some reason it is not working out for you, but you can always go back and do it manually.
damon

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 21:25:40 -0700
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC-DC Converter Recommendation
>
> Hi Bill and all,
>
> Thanks for the advice. Anyone else have a brand they are running that they are happy with?
>
> RE: swapping input leads -- the thing that is failing is the inrush limiter; they just crumble after a while, probably from it running too hot. (So, the input rectifier is out of the equation as I removed it). I have two more lower resistance/higher amp ones that I may try for a while to see how they work while I wait for another converter.
>
> Has anyone used a Mean Well SP-500? IE:
>
> http://www.meanwell.com/search/sp-500/sp-500-spec.pdf
>
> It sort of looks similar to an IOTA, so I'm not sure it is good.
>
> I also found some solid state Vicor's on ebay that I'm considering:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/VICOR-DC-DC-Converter-VI-251-09-200V-250W-/190520444458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5be7462a#ht_500wt_913 
>
> However, only 20amps out (250w), but I hear solid states are better for reliability and efficiency. Can these guy's be run in parallel? Maybe I'll get two and have 40 amp output.
>
> -corbin
>
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2011, at 8:08 PM, Bill Dube wrote:
>
> > You might try reversing the polarity of the input leads. Can't hurt to try.
> >
> > The full-wave input rectifier is sized to have each half carry half
> > the wattage. When you run it on DC at full load, you tend to
> > "torture" the half of the rectifier you happen to have chosen.
> >
> > I leave the DC-DC running all the time. I replaced the cooling fan
> > with a higher-quality unit after ~7 years in 2003.
> >
> > Bill D.
> >
> >
> > At 05:34 PM 4/9/2011, you wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >> My IOTA DLS-55 seems to have bit the dust (again). I haven't torn it
> >> apart yet, but I know I'm going to replace it.
> >>
> >> Does anyone know the rough current requirements for a standard VW
> >> bug?  55 amps seemed excessive, so I'm wondering if a 25 amp
> >> converter will be sufficient. Yes, I should measure it, but I don't
> >> quite know how with what I have.
> >>
> >> I do run with a 12v accessory battery, but it is tiny. I only turn
> >> on the DC-DC converter via a relay when "key on" happens; all other
> >> times it is off. I think this is part of the problem why my IOTA
> >> failed; it doesn't like the constant inrush of current, even with
> >> the current limiter fix I put into it.
> >>
> >> I'm considering the Kelly HWZ Series DC/DC Converter 156V to 13.5V 25A
> >>
> >> http://kellycontroller.com/hwz-series-dcdc-converter-156v-to-135v-25a-p-536.html 
> >> ($150)
> >>
> >> Other possibilities:
> >>
> >> Beltronix (35A, or with forced air cooling, higher).Unknown price.
> >> http://www.belktronix.com/isodcdc.html
> >>
> >> Maybe a Zivan ($525 -- pricey)
> >> http://www.evolveelectrics.com/DC-DC%20Converters.html#elcondcdc
> >>
> >> Any advice on what works well for a 154v nominal pack?
> >>
> >> -corbin
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> >
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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

martinwinlow
Corbin,  Damon's suggestion is worth a try but you will probably (like  
me) be wondering how much juice the converter will use with nothing  
drawing power from the output - ie !Won't that kill my pack?!".

So, you are going to have to measure what the 'stand-by' currant is -  
with an ammeter.  Just be careful not to connect the converter to the  
pack via the ammeter without using pre-charge or you will blow the  
ammeter fuse (that blessed in-rush currant again).  Alternatively you  
could not pre-charge but connect the converter to the pack with one  
connection accessible to the ammeter leads equipped with croc clips on  
the ends.

Once pack and converter are connected, connect each ammeter lead croc  
clip to one side of the accessible converter/pack connection and the  
other croc clip to the other side, then separate that connection so  
that now the steady-state currant flow between pack and converter is  
going through the ammeter and you will be able to read the currant  
draw without damaging the meter.  This is definitely one of those  
situations where a couple of simple drawings tells a thousand (well, a  
hundred or so!) words...

You may of course find that the currant draw is big - and this may  
give grounds to suspect something other than the in-rush currant being  
responsible for the converter failing all the time.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk


On 10 Apr 2011, at 06:59, damon henry wrote:

>
> Neither the inrush limiter or the rectifier are actually required  
> for you application.  Of course if I remember correctly you first  
> started on this because you were blowing a fuse somewhere, which  
> lead to adding the inrush limiters.
> You can just hook your DC/DC straight up to your pack with neither  
> of these and leave it that way.  There will be a big snap when you  
> make the connection, but after that nothing, and doing this on  
> occasion should not significantly shorten the life on any of the  
> components.  If you want to frequently connect/disconnect your DC/DC  
> use two switches and one resistor.  Turn on the first switch which  
> connects the DC/DC through the resistor thus limiting the inrush  
> current.  Once the DC/DC is fully on, use the second switch to  
> bypass the resistor.  Some people like to use a light bulb as the  
> limiting resistor as it gives you a visual indication of when you  
> can flip the second switch.  The inrush limiter you have been  
> struggling with is a component that essentially achieves these two  
> steps for you automatically, however for some reason it is not  
> working out for you, but you can always go back and do it manually.
> damon
>
>> From: [hidden email]
>> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 21:25:40 -0700
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC-DC Converter Recommendation
>>
>> Hi Bill and all,
>>
>> Thanks for the advice. Anyone else have a brand they are running  
>> that they are happy with?
>>
>> RE: swapping input leads -- the thing that is failing is the inrush  
>> limiter; they just crumble after a while, probably from it running  
>> too hot. (So, the input rectifier is out of the equation as I  
>> removed it). I have two more lower resistance/higher amp ones that  
>> I may try for a while to see how they work while I wait for another  
>> converter.
>>
>> Has anyone used a Mean Well SP-500? IE:
>>
>> http://www.meanwell.com/search/sp-500/sp-500-spec.pdf
>>
>> It sort of looks similar to an IOTA, so I'm not sure it is good.
>>
>> I also found some solid state Vicor's on ebay that I'm considering:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/VICOR-DC-DC-Converter-VI-251-09-200V-250W-/190520444458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5be7462a#ht_500wt_913
>>
>> However, only 20amps out (250w), but I hear solid states are better  
>> for reliability and efficiency. Can these guy's be run in parallel?  
>> Maybe I'll get two and have 40 amp output.
>>
>> -corbin




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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Jay Summet
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
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On 04/10/2011 12:25 AM, corbin dunn wrote:
> Hi Bill and all,
>
> Thanks for the advice. Anyone else have a brand they are running that they are happy with?
>
> RE: swapping input leads -- the thing that is failing is the inrush limiter; they just crumble after a while, probably from it running too hot. (So, the input rectifier is out of the equation as I removed it). I have two more lower resistance/higher amp ones that I may try for a while to see how they work while I wait for another converter.
>
> Has anyone used a Mean Well SP-500? IE:

I have a MeanWell SD-350D-12 in my S10 conversion. It's rated at 72-144v
input (draws 6A at 96v, I have a 120 volt pack) and 12v output
(0-29.2A). It's lasted for 11K miles over 4 years and is still going strong.

Jay


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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

tomw
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
I use a lower pack voltage and 30A version of this higher voltage 35A one from Cloud Electric:
http://www.cloudelectric.com/category_s/8344.htm
I turn it on with a key switch relay same as you (it comes built-in in the above model), use the original 12V battery that was in the car.  I haven't had any problems with it, running for about 1 1/2 years now.  I emailed the manufacturer and they sent me a spec sheet on it, which says in part: Isolated, max efficiency 92%, short circuit output protection, 150% input over voltage protection, thermal switch for over heat protection, fully sealed and waterproof, can sustain the max output current for 1 hour, static low power draw, steady output voltage employing soft startup technology.

Company:
Hangzhou Tiecheng Information Technology Co., Ltd
Add: 2F,Building 2,No.39, Xiangyuan Road, Hangzhou, China. 310011
Phone: 86-571-88199121  Fax: 86-571-88199125
MP:86-13067990562
www.hztiecheng.com
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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
On 4/9/2011 11:25 PM, corbin dunn wrote:
> Has anyone used a Mean Well SP-500? IE:
> http://www.meanwell.com/search/sp-500/sp-500-spec.pdf

It's another Chinese brand. The quality does seem a bit better on a
couple of their AC power supplies that I've seen, but I have no data on
their reliability.

> Anyone else have a brand they are running that they are happy with?

I've used Vicor, Lambda, and Astec DC/DC converters. I've been happy
with them.

Only one Kelly that I know of; it didn't last any longer than the Iotas.

> I also found some solid state Vicor's on ebay that I'm considering:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/VICOR-DC-DC-Converter-VI-251-09-200V-250W-/190520444458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5be7462a#ht_500wt_913

This is just the power module, not the complete DC/DC. These particular
ones are also specials with a 200vdc nominal (150-250vdc) input. That's
a bit too high for your 156v nominal pack.

For Vicors, look for a "PFC Micro-, Mini- or MegaPak". These are the
complete supply, with the same type modules above plus all the necessary
filters, fuses, heatsinks, fans, input/output terminals, etc. These
explicitly have AC and DC input ratings. The PFC versions work from
120-300vdc (and 90-264vac).

These supplies are modular; their output voltage and current is
determined by the particular output modules that are plugged in. You
will want 15v nominal modules to use as a DC/DC converter. These are
less common; you usually find lots of 5v, 12v, and 24v outputs instead.
I have used three 5v modules in series to get 15v, or 24v modules
trimmed down. These modules can be trimmed up 10% and down 50% from
their nominal voltage. You will want to trim them to something like
13.5v to 14.5v for a DC/DC.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
On 4/9/2011 11:25 PM, corbin dunn wrote:
>>> My IOTA DLS-55 seems to have bit the dust (again). I haven't torn it
>>> apart yet, but I know I'm going to replace it.

It would be good to know what failed. That's the only way to know what
to fix. Many people insist on using them because they are cheap and
available.

You replaced the CL40's with CL30's, right? It will be interesting to
see if the CL30's are good. I've used them in the smaller DLS-40, but
not in a DLS-55.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by damon henry
On 4/10/2011 12:59 AM, damon henry wrote:
> Neither the inrush limiter or the rectifier are actually required for
> you application.

That's correct. You just need *some* way to deal with the huge inrush
current. On AC, you have lots of wire between the supply and your Iota;
this limits the inrush current to "only" 50 amps or so. In an EV, the
battery pack has much lower resistance, and will happily supply hundreds
of amps peak to the Iota. This is what blows fuses, damages relays or
connectors, and inside the Iota, kills the bridge rectifier, and blows
up the electrolytics.

Like Damon says, you can just connect the Iota to the pack and leave it
connected. Then it runs all the time. You have to adjust the output
voltage to a suitable value (like 13.5v) so it won't wreck the battery
over time. The Iota also draws around 60ma no-load (more with a battery
connected), which will run your pack dead if left on for weeks without
charging.

> The inrush limiter you have been struggling with is a component that essentially
> achieves these two steps for you automatically, however for some
> reason it is not working out for you

Initially, I think he had a smaller inrush limiter; a CL40 if I remember
correctly. I use CL30's in the Iota DLS-40, and they have held up OK. So
I think he tried two of them. But I haven't measured the input current
of a DLS-55, so I don't know how big an inrush limiter is needed. Maybe
the inrush is even higher.

And, maybe something else failed, not related to the inrush at all.
There are lots of weak points in these supplies.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Tom Keenan
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
The SP-500 is an AC to DC converter - Can be used directly with DC input without
modification?


I use a Meanwell SD-200-C12 in the Citicar.  This is a smaller unit than the
SD-500 (a DC/DC converter), and is only rated to 16.7 amps.  With every 12v item
turned on (headlights, wiper, brake lights, reverse lamp, contactors, etc.) it
is pretty much maxed out.  The output voltage is adjustable, so you can use a
flooded, AGM or any other battery as an aux battery.  I use a 12v 12ah gel
battery in parallel, similar to those found in small UPS.

I've been using it for over three years with absolutely no problems.  Biggest
issue with your application is that the Meanwell DC/DC converters are only rated
to 144 volts input.

Tom Keenan



Has anyone used a Mean Well SP-500? IE:

http://www.meanwell.com/search/sp-500/sp-500-spec.pdf

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

corbin dunn
In reply to this post by Jay Summet

On Apr 10, 2011, at 6:10 AM, Jay Summet wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 04/10/2011 12:25 AM, corbin dunn wrote:
>> Hi Bill and all,
>>
>> Thanks for the advice. Anyone else have a brand they are running that they are happy with?
>>
>> RE: swapping input leads -- the thing that is failing is the inrush limiter; they just crumble after a while, probably from it running too hot. (So, the input rectifier is out of the equation as I removed it). I have two more lower resistance/higher amp ones that I may try for a while to see how they work while I wait for another converter.
>>
>> Has anyone used a Mean Well SP-500? IE:
>
> I have a MeanWell SD-350D-12 in my S10 conversion. It's rated at 72-144v
> input (draws 6A at 96v, I have a 120 volt pack) and 12v output
> (0-29.2A). It's lasted for 11K miles over 4 years and is still going strong.

Thanks Jay; how do you have it hooked up? Is it always on, charging the 12v aux battery, or does it only come on with "key on"?

--corbin

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

corbin dunn
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Thanks everyone for the response!

Re Lee -

On Apr 10, 2011, at 7:53 AM, Lee Hart wrote:

> On 4/9/2011 11:25 PM, corbin dunn wrote:
>>>> My IOTA DLS-55 seems to have bit the dust (again). I haven't torn it
>>>> apart yet, but I know I'm going to replace it.
>
> It would be good to know what failed. That's the only way to know what
> to fix. Many people insist on using them because they are cheap and
> available.

I took it apart; the CL30 gets brittle over time, and finally crumbled apart enough to make the connection not happen.

>
> You replaced the CL40's with CL30's, right? It will be interesting to
> see if the CL30's are good. I've used them in the smaller DLS-40, but
> not in a DLS-55.

Yup; The CL30 definitely lasted longer than the CL40. I got maybe 100 miles with the CL40 and 1000 miles with the CL40.

I also have a 5ohm 12A inrush limiter:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=570-1053-ND

I dropped this in and let the car sit for 30 minutes. This limiter seems to get to about 140F and stay there. I'm still using an infrared temp sensor, and I see what you mean about it reading high if you point it at something shiny. If I point it at the solder, it reads 240F, which I think is wrong. Also, the toroid does *not* get hot like I thought it did before.

I might live on the edge while waiting for another converter and try it for a while.

-corbin

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

corbin dunn
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Hi Lee,

On Apr 10, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Lee Hart wrote:

> On 4/9/2011 11:25 PM, corbin dunn wrote:
>> Has anyone used a Mean Well SP-500? IE:
>> http://www.meanwell.com/search/sp-500/sp-500-spec.pdf
>
> It's another Chinese brand. The quality does seem a bit better on a
> couple of their AC power supplies that I've seen, but I have no data on
> their reliability.
>
>> Anyone else have a brand they are running that they are happy with?
>
> I've used Vicor, Lambda, and Astec DC/DC converters. I've been happy
> with them.
>
> Only one Kelly that I know of; it didn't last any longer than the Iotas.

Ah, good to know! I know some people have used them successfully, but I have also heard two negative reports on them. I'll probably skip the Kelly.

>
>> I also found some solid state Vicor's on ebay that I'm considering:
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/VICOR-DC-DC-Converter-VI-251-09-200V-250W-/190520444458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5be7462a#ht_500wt_913
>

> This is just the power module, not the complete DC/DC. These particular

Thanks; I didn't realize that.

> For Vicors, look for a "PFC Micro-, Mini- or MegaPak".

That is great to know. I input my requirements to Vicor's website and came up with a 500W Maxi Module:
  150Vdc nominal (100-200v range), 15V output, 30A (450W), Grade "C", Slotted based: $269 per unit, 6 week lead.
  Datasheet: http://cdn.vicorpower.com/documents/datasheets/ds_150vin-maxi-family.pdf

Do you know what their "pin style" means? They offer: Long or short solder, long or short ModuMate.
http://vdac.vicorpower.com/vdac/mod-options.htm#pins

I may just get a Vicor or the Belktronix. The Belktronix is a little more ($300) but has a shorter lead time (3-4 weeks) ( http://www.belktronix.com/pricing.html ) -- and I also hear Bryan really supports his products well. Price doesn't matter too much; I want something that won't fail and is designed for automotive use.

-corbin



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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

corbin dunn
In reply to this post by tomw
Hi Tom,

On Apr 10, 2011, at 6:46 AM, tomw wrote:

> I use a lower pack voltage and 30A version of this higher voltage 35A one
> from Cloud Electric:
> http://www.cloudelectric.com/category_s/8344.htm
> I turn it on with a key switch relay same as you, use the original 12V
> battery that was in the car.  I haven't had any problems with it, running
> for about 1 1/2 years now.  I emailed the manufacturer and they sent me a
> spec sheet on it, which says in part: Isolated, max efficiency 92%, short
> circuit output protection, 150% input over voltage protection, thermal
> switch for over heat protection, fully sealed and waterproof, can sustain
> the max output current for 1 hour, static low power draw, steady output
> voltage employing soft startup technology.

Awesome - I am particular interested in people who turn it on the same way I do. It says it has a "Secondary key switch input if desired to turn off when car is parked." Are you using a contactor to turn on the high voltage input, or are you using this secondary key switch to flip it on? Now, either would probably work for me, and I actually have the output from the IOTA running into a 50Amp auto relay to make it drop the current instantaneously (for other reasons...)

It almost looks like a Kelly too; I wonder if it is similar or the same? I heard that Kelly (and possibly Cloud Electric) buy cheap imports and just rebrand them. Still...it looks like what I want, and seems the right size.

corbin

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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

Jay Summet
In reply to this post by corbin dunn
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On 04/10/2011 12:04 PM, corbin dunn wrote:

>> I have a MeanWell SD-350D-12 in my S10 conversion. It's rated at 72-144v
>> input (draws 6A at 96v, I have a 120 volt pack) and 12v output
>> (0-29.2A). It's lasted for 11K miles over 4 years and is still going strong.
>
> Thanks Jay; how do you have it hooked up? Is it always on, charging the 12v aux battery, or does it only come on with "key on"?
>

The DC/DC converter is only activated when the ignition is on, and used
to power accessories and charge a standard 12v starter battery which
acts as a buffer. I have no idea if it can run all of my accessories
without the buffer battery, but with a 29A output I suspect it could
come close. [Note that I rarely drive long distances at night, and hence
the headlights (the largest potential drain) are typically not used
much. I am in the process of adding 8-12 watts of LED daytime running
lights which will increase my running draw by an amp...]

Jay
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Re: DC-DC Converter Recommendation

John Lussmyer
On 4/10/2011 9:35 AM, Jay Summet wrote:
> The DC/DC converter is only activated when the ignition is on, and used
> to power accessories and charge a standard 12v starter battery which
> acts as a buffer. I have no idea if it can run all of my accessories
> without the buffer battery, but with a 29A output I suspect it could
> come close. [Note that I rarely drive long distances at night, and hence
> the headlights (the largest potential drain) are typically not used
> much. I am in the process of adding 8-12 watts of LED daytime running
> lights which will increase my running draw by an amp...]

You REALLY should measure your "idling" power draw.  Especially if you
have lots of "always on" accessories (like power steering, blower on the
motors, etc...)  I found that my (rather large) conversion draws over
30A just sitting there.  Turn on any of the major accessories, and it
exceeds the 40A output of my DC-DC.  (yes, I do have a battery, and am
in the process of upgrading my DC-DC capacity.  Probably to 80A)
I'm using some Vicor modules that I've mounted to a heatsink, fan, and a
few other parts.  I'll probably add a 2nd unit.  (Ebay surplus modules
makes it affordable.)

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