Delivery Van

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Delivery Van

Richard Sklarsky
Hello EVers,

Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple
of buisnesses and would like to use electric for local
deliveries and installations.  A cargo size van would
be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any suggestiions
for someone who does not have the time to work on the
conversions themselves in the LA area? Also, just went
to the LA auto show.  What a disapointment.  Most of
the cars get less than 20mpg.  Yokohama did have
Tesla's car on display though. That was cool.

Thanks,

Richard

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Re: Delivery Van

Lee Hart
Richard Sklarsky wrote:
> Hello EVers,
>
> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple
> of buisnesses and would like to use electric for local
> deliveries and installations.  A cargo size van would
> be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any suggestiions
> for someone who does not have the time to work on the
> conversions themselves in the LA area?

Can't help you in the LA area. But we are converting a GM cargo van to
electric for use in a college area for vending machine deliveries. It's
all low speed on-campus work, with short runs to the warehouse for more
supplies -- perfect for an EV.

We are using a Zilla 2000amp controller, TransWarP 11" motor, with no
transmission, and a big pack of plain old flooded golf cart batteries.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Re: Delivery Van

Peter Gabrielsson
In reply to this post by Richard Sklarsky
Contact left coast electric, they're in culver city.
http://leftcoastelectric.com/



On Nov 26, 2007 10:19 AM, Richard Sklarsky <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello EVers,
>
> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple
> of buisnesses and would like to use electric for local
> deliveries and installations.  A cargo size van would
> be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any suggestiions
> for someone who does not have the time to work on the
> conversions themselves in the LA area? Also, just went
> to the LA auto show.  What a disapointment.  Most of
> the cars get less than 20mpg.  Yokohama did have
> Tesla's car on display though. That was cool.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

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Re: Delivery Van

Bill Dube
In reply to this post by Richard Sklarsky
Randy Holmquist has been doing a very nice job on "standard"
conversions at a fair price for many years:

http://www.canev.com/

I think he has a standard product to do what you are asking for.

Bill Dube'


At 11:19 AM 11/26/2007, you wrote:

>Hello EVers,
>
>Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple
>of buisnesses and would like to use electric for local
>deliveries and installations.  A cargo size van would
>be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any suggestiions
>for someone who does not have the time to work on the
>conversions themselves in the LA area? Also, just went
>to the LA auto show.  What a disapointment.  Most of
>the cars get less than 20mpg.  Yokohama did have
>Tesla's car on display though. That was cool.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Richard
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Delivery Van

(-Phil-)
In reply to this post by Richard Sklarsky
Sounds like you need an Electric G-van.  There are some out there!

Here's (one of) mine:  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1413

I've had 4 unsolicited offers to buy mine, all priced WAY lower than even my
pack is worth alone.  I wouldn't even consider selling the pack for less
than 25K, as I believe that these STM-5-200's are worth that.

I do have another van, with a bad lead-acid pack.  It would need a new pack
and the motor repaired, but otherwise is functional.  I would consider
selling it for the right offer.  With a new pack of floodies, it should have
a 60 mile range.   It's a full-size 1-ton cargo van.  It has a cargo liner
as well.

-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sklarsky" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Delivery Van


> Hello EVers,
>
> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple
> of buisnesses and would like to use electric for local
> deliveries and installations.  A cargo size van would
> be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any suggestiions
> for someone who does not have the time to work on the
> conversions themselves in the LA area? Also, just went
> to the LA auto show.  What a disapointment.  Most of
> the cars get less than 20mpg.  Yokohama did have
> Tesla's car on display though. That was cool.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Delivery Van

Alizav
Where are you Phil?

Aliza
----- Original Message -----
From: "(-Phil-)" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van


> Sounds like you need an Electric G-van.  There are some out there!
>
> Here's (one of) mine:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1413
>
> I've had 4 unsolicited offers to buy mine, all priced WAY lower than even
> my
> pack is worth alone.  I wouldn't even consider selling the pack for less
> than 25K, as I believe that these STM-5-200's are worth that.
>
> I do have another van, with a bad lead-acid pack.  It would need a new
> pack
> and the motor repaired, but otherwise is functional.  I would consider
> selling it for the right offer.  With a new pack of floodies, it should
> have
> a 60 mile range.   It's a full-size 1-ton cargo van.  It has a cargo liner
> as well.
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Sklarsky" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:19 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Delivery Van
>
>
>> Hello EVers,
>>
>> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple
>> of buisnesses and would like to use electric for local
>> deliveries and installations.  A cargo size van would
>> be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any suggestiions
>> for someone who does not have the time to work on the
>> conversions themselves in the LA area? Also, just went
>> to the LA auto show.  What a disapointment.  Most of
>> the cars get less than 20mpg.  Yokohama did have
>> Tesla's car on display though. That was cool.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: Delivery Van

billb-3
In reply to this post by Richard Sklarsky
Hi Folks,
  I would recommend a 1 ton G-Van if you can find a repairable or
running one. They have a big sepex motor good controller and great
regen. Phil in the bay area may wish to add some info here too, I think
he has driven his around SF. hills and all. I have 17 k miles on mine as
a daily driver. It seems to burn .500 kwh  and weighs 7 k lbs. It runs
55 on the freeway no sweat, I have had over 1k in cargo and no problem.
With 36 180 ah NiCads I easily go over 50 miles and one fellow here in
Reno reports up to70 miles before it was getting limpid.
                                                                                                                               
Bill Brinsmead


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Re: Delivery Van

(-Phil-)
In reply to this post by Alizav
I'm in Berkeley, CA.

If you are up my way, I will be happy to show you my vans and talk about
conversion options.

-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aliza" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van


> Where are you Phil?
>
> Aliza
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "(-Phil-)" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
>
>
>> Sounds like you need an Electric G-van.  There are some out there!
>>
>> Here's (one of) mine:
>> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1413
>>
>> I've had 4 unsolicited offers to buy mine, all priced WAY lower than even
>> my
>> pack is worth alone.  I wouldn't even consider selling the pack for less
>> than 25K, as I believe that these STM-5-200's are worth that.
>>
>> I do have another van, with a bad lead-acid pack.  It would need a new
>> pack
>> and the motor repaired, but otherwise is functional.  I would consider
>> selling it for the right offer.  With a new pack of floodies, it should
>> have
>> a 60 mile range.   It's a full-size 1-ton cargo van.  It has a cargo
>> liner
>> as well.
>>
>> -Phil
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Richard Sklarsky" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:19 AM
>> Subject: [EVDL] Delivery Van
>>
>>
>>> Hello EVers,
>>>
>>> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple
>>> of buisnesses and would like to use electric for local
>>> deliveries and installations.  A cargo size van would
>>> be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any suggestiions
>>> for someone who does not have the time to work on the
>>> conversions themselves in the LA area? Also, just went
>>> to the LA auto show.  What a disapointment.  Most of
>>> the cars get less than 20mpg.  Yokohama did have
>>> Tesla's car on display though. That was cool.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Delivery Van

Alizav
I'm a bit north of you in Ashland, Oregon.  Can you mail me off list with
info on the one with the bad motor and power supply.  I am interested.
My email is [hidden email]

Thanks Phil

Aliza

----- Original Message -----
From: "(-Phil-)" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van


> I'm in Berkeley, CA.
>
> If you are up my way, I will be happy to show you my vans and talk about
> conversion options.
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aliza" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
>
>
>> Where are you Phil?
>>
>> Aliza
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "(-Phil-)" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
>>
>>
>>> Sounds like you need an Electric G-van.  There are some out there!
>>>
>>> Here's (one of) mine:
>>> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1413
>>>
>>> I've had 4 unsolicited offers to buy mine, all priced WAY lower than
>>> even
>>> my
>>> pack is worth alone.  I wouldn't even consider selling the pack for less
>>> than 25K, as I believe that these STM-5-200's are worth that.
>>>
>>> I do have another van, with a bad lead-acid pack.  It would need a new
>>> pack
>>> and the motor repaired, but otherwise is functional.  I would consider
>>> selling it for the right offer.  With a new pack of floodies, it should
>>> have
>>> a 60 mile range.   It's a full-size 1-ton cargo van.  It has a cargo
>>> liner
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> -Phil
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Richard Sklarsky" <[hidden email]>
>>> To: <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:19 AM
>>> Subject: [EVDL] Delivery Van
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello EVers,
>>>>
>>>> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple
>>>> of buisnesses and would like to use electric for local
>>>> deliveries and installations.  A cargo size van would
>>>> be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any suggestiions
>>>> for someone who does not have the time to work on the
>>>> conversions themselves in the LA area? Also, just went
>>>> to the LA auto show.  What a disapointment.  Most of
>>>> the cars get less than 20mpg.  Yokohama did have
>>>> Tesla's car on display though. That was cool.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> For subscription options, see
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: Delivery Van

Pestka, Dennis J
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Lee;

Can you share a little more detail on this.
I'm curious why the 2000A Zilla for something that will be low speed
with flooded batteries.

Dennis
Elsberry, MO

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van

Richard Sklarsky wrote:
> Hello EVers,
>
> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple of buisnesses
> and would like to use electric for local deliveries and installations.

> A cargo size van would be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any
> suggestiions for someone who does not have the time to work on the
> conversions themselves in the LA area?

Can't help you in the LA area. But we are converting a GM cargo van to
electric for use in a college area for vending machine deliveries. It's
all low speed on-campus work, with short runs to the warehouse for more
supplies -- perfect for an EV.

We are using a Zilla 2000amp controller, TransWarP 11" motor, with no
transmission, and a big pack of plain old flooded golf cart batteries.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



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Re: Delivery Van

Tim Humphrey

Even though you asked Lee directly, I'd like to give this one a guess....

1. Cargo van = heavy load
2. no transmission + heavy load = high current demands upon accelleration
3. Trans Warp 11 = high current at load speed
4. BIG flooded GC battery pack = high volts (maybe) at moderate current > buck the volts down and the amps up.

Conclusion.. the Zilla Z2K is the ONLY controller capable of providing 2000 amps to the motor.

Plus the Z2k is the cheapest and most robust controller available for these power levels.


--
Stay Charged!
Hump
G.E. I-5, Blossvale NY

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:49:07 -0600, "Pestka, Dennis J" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lee;
>
> Can you share a little more detail on this.
> I'm curious why the 2000A Zilla for something that will be low speed
> with flooded batteries.
>
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:37 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
>
> Richard Sklarsky wrote:
>> Hello EVers,
>>
>> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple of buisnesses
>> and would like to use electric for local deliveries and installations.
>
>> A cargo size van would be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any
>> suggestiions for someone who does not have the time to work on the
>> conversions themselves in the LA area?
>
> Can't help you in the LA area. But we are converting a GM cargo van to
> electric for use in a college area for vending machine deliveries. It's
> all low speed on-campus work, with short runs to the warehouse for more
> supplies -- perfect for an EV.
>
> We are using a Zilla 2000amp controller, TransWarP 11" motor, with no
> transmission, and a big pack of plain old flooded golf cart batteries.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
>


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Re: Delivery Van

Lee Hart
Tim Humphrey wrote:
> Even though you asked Lee directly, I'd like to give this one a guess...
>
> 1. Cargo van = heavy load
> 2. no transmission + heavy load = high current demands upon accelleration
> 3. Trans Warp 11 = high current at load speed
> 4. BIG flooded GC battery pack = high volts (maybe) at moderate current > buck the volts down and the amps up.
>
> Conclusion.. the Zilla Z2K is the ONLY controller capable of providing 2000 amps to the motor.
> Plus the Z2k is the cheapest and most robust controller available for these power levels.

Yep! Got it right in one! Heavy vehicle + direct drive means high motor
current is needed for hills. The Zilla is the only way to do this. We
are going with a 5.xx:1 differential as well.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Re: Delivery Van

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by Tim Humphrey
Hello Richard,

Here is some data from my EV that can haul 3000 lbs of cargo which I had
loaded up at one time when I was building my house.  That glaze tile is
heavy which made the EV about 9000 lbs at the time.

I had to keep my EV in 1st gear which is about 20:1 overall gear ratio to
the driving wheels.  Transmission gear ratio times the differential gear
ratio gives you the overall ratio.

At city driving of 25 mph at 20:1 overall ratio, my motor rpm is about 6000
rpm at a motor ampere of 300 amps.  Did not keep it at 300 amps too long,
because the Warp motors have only a continuous ampere rating of 200 amps and
can run over that for a short period of time.

I am using a 1000 amp Zilla and a Warp 9 which I have never went over over
500 motor amps during acceleration.  Only got up to 500 amps for about a
second and then let the motor float back down to 200 amps.

During constant driving on a level surface at 25 mph at 6000 rpm in a
overall gear ratio of 20:1 the following results:

Motor ampere     Battery ampere     EV weight

300                100                9000
260                 85                8000
210                 65                7000
180                 60                6000
150                 50                5000

Your acceleration up to 25 mph will be about double the ampere, so you can
determine what size motor and controller you need.

If you do not use a transmission, the differential gear ratio will have to
be increase to keep your ampere to a safe level.

Some differential ratios can only be increase to about 6:1 ratio, so lets
say your van weighs 5000 lbs and if everything is proportional, so if the
motor ampere would be about at a 6:1 ratio:


             150 amp at 6000 rpm at a 20:1 overall gear ratio, then

             (20 x 150)/6 = 500 amps.

Pulling about 500 amps may be done only for about 30 seconds at a time at
this gear ratio, which also depends on the ambient temperature and the cool
down time of the motor.

Roland



> > Richard Sklarsky wrote:
> >> Hello EVers,
> >>
> >> Long time monitor, first time writer.  I have a couple of buisnesses
> >> and would like to use electric for local deliveries and installations.
> >
> >> A cargo size van would be ideal.  Is this a practical idea?  Any
> >> suggestiions for someone who does not have the time to work on the
> >> conversions themselves in the LA area?
> >
> > Can't help you in the LA area. But we are converting a GM cargo van to
> > electric for use in a college area for vending machine deliveries. It's
> > all low speed on-campus work, with short runs to the warehouse for more
> > supplies -- perfect for an EV.
> >
>

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Capacitor ripple current [Was: Delivery Van]

Ian Hooper-2
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Does anyone know a realistic ripple current rating for the capacitor  
bank in the Zillas and/or Curtis controllers?

I ask because in a situation like this (driving a large motor at low  
speed with high torque) there is going to be a huge difference  
between battery amps and motor amps, which means the capacitors will  
be working really hard.

What's the maximum difference people have observed between motor amps  
and battery amps? Ideally this difference has to be handled by the  
capacitor bank during the transistor on-phase, if my understanding is  
correct.. (And then the caps charge at the battery amps rate during  
the transistor off-phase.)

On 28/11/2007, at 12:35 AM, Lee Hart wrote:

> Tim Humphrey wrote:
>> Even though you asked Lee directly, I'd like to give this one a  
>> guess...
>>
>> 1. Cargo van = heavy load
>> 2. no transmission + heavy load = high current demands upon  
>> accelleration
>> 3. Trans Warp 11 = high current at load speed
>> 4. BIG flooded GC battery pack = high volts (maybe) at moderate  
>> current > buck the volts down and the amps up.
>>
>> Conclusion.. the Zilla Z2K is the ONLY controller capable of  
>> providing 2000 amps to the motor.
>> Plus the Z2k is the cheapest and most robust controller available  
>> for these power levels.
>
> Yep! Got it right in one! Heavy vehicle + direct drive means high  
> motor
> current is needed for hills. The Zilla is the only way to do this. We
> are going with a 5.xx:1 differential as well.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,  
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Capacitor ripple current [Was: Delivery Van]

Morgan LaMoore
On Nov 27, 2007 7:04 PM, Ian Hooper <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Does anyone know a realistic ripple current rating for the capacitor
> bank in the Zillas and/or Curtis controllers?

There were some pictures of Curtis internals on here a while back.
>From what I saw, it looks like a Curtis used about 30-40 standard
220uF electrolytics. This seems like not nearly enough, though.

I don't know the ripple current allowable on Zillas and Curtis
controllers, but if you want to improve it, you could make your own
capacitor bank.

For a 72V system, I found the Nichicon 100V HE series 270uF
capacitors. They're rated at ESR of 0.073 ohms and ripple of 1.25A at
100 kHz and have a rated lifetime of 10k hours at a temp of 105 C.
Buying 500 of them would cost $115.60 plus shipping (plus some time
and money to mount them all on protoboards and wire them togehter).

This bank would be rated at 625A RMS ripple current, which should be
plenty. Lifetime roughly doubles for every 10 C temperature
difference, so if you average 5 mph and the caps are at 75 C (167 F),
they should last about 400,000 miles. Plus, it would probably reduce
the amount of EMI you get.

Of course, you would need to find something similar but rated at a
higher voltage for use in a van, but the same principle holds.

-Morgan LaMoore

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Re: Capacitor ripple current [Was: Delivery Van]

Eduardo K.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 11:22:50PM -0600, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
>
> There were some pictures of Curtis internals on here a while back.
> >From what I saw, it looks like a Curtis used about 30-40 standard
> 220uF electrolytics. This seems like not nearly enough, though.


I have a dead one dissasembled in my desk. Its a 24/36v 275 amp
and has been hacked before and now works as an on/off switch.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ekaftan/BakedCurtis

--
Eduardo K.           | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl |  I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://ev.nn.cl      |  And get the hell out of town.
                     |                      Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank

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