EV frustrations

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EV frustrations

John Lussmyer
I'm trying to test a new version of my ZillConfig program.  So I headed
out to the shop where the EV is parked.  I haven't used it in a few
weeks, but that shouldn't be enough to worry about.
Hooked up to the Z2K, and my program reported that it was getting bad
responses from the Zilla.
hmm, so I ran a terminal program to see what it's getting.  Nothing.  No
responses at all.
Very odd, so I tried turning the key on to see if that triggered a
response.  Nothing.  No dash lights, no open-door dinging, dead.
AARRGGHH the 12v battery had gone dead.  Looks like I'll have to do some
checking to see how much parasitic draw there is!

So I put the charger on it for an hour.
Ran the terminal to check Zilla communcations, and... nothing.  No
responses at all.
Turning the car on lights the "main contactor off" (yellow) light, and
no others.
Clicking the ignition to "start" doesn't cause the main contactor to
come on either.

Something is WRONG.

--
--
John G. Lussmyer  mailto:[hidden email]
Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com


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Re: EV frustrations

David Dymaxion
Hang in there. My gasser ran the battery down to about 2 Volts in less  than a month. It took more than an hour to get the battery up to dash lights and door locks level. Been running now on that battery for a month. Keep charging!




________________________________
From: John G. Lussmyer <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 5:37:57 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EV frustrations

I'm trying to test a new version of my ZillConfig program.  So I headed
out to the shop where the EV is parked.  I haven't used it in a few
weeks, but that shouldn't be enough to worry about.
Hooked up to the Z2K, and my program reported that it was getting bad
responses from the Zilla.
hmm, so I ran a terminal program to see what it's getting.  Nothing.  No
responses at all.
Very odd, so I tried turning the key on to see if that triggered a
response.  Nothing.  No dash lights, no open-door dinging, dead.
AARRGGHH the 12v battery had gone dead.  Looks like I'll have to do some
checking to see how much parasitic draw there is!

So I put the charger on it for an hour.
Ran the terminal to check Zilla communcations, and... nothing.  No
responses at all.
Turning the car on lights the "main contactor off" (yellow) light, and
no others.
Clicking the ignition to "start" doesn't cause the main contactor to
come on either.

Something is WRONG.

--
--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:[hidden email]
Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com


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Re: EV frustrations

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
Hello John,

With the ignition switch off, check to see if you have 12V- on pin#1 and
12V+ on pin#2.  These voltages should not be below 11.5 volts at no load.

With the ignition switch on, you should get 12V+ on pin#3.

With the ignition switch in the start position, there should be 12+ at pin#
5 which goes to the main contactor.

If there is no voltage at pin# 5, then check to see if there is main battery
voltage + at the contactor and neg at the motor controller.  If this voltage
is not present, then the controller will not send voltage to pin# 5 to the
contactor coil.

If you have a second set of battery contactors before the main contactor,
then these contactors should could on first using the ignition on position.
Then the ignition start position then turn on the pre-charge circuit and
thus the main contactor.

I had my battery contactors and main contactor come on with the start
position, which did not work, because it show a fault that the main battery
voltage was not present at the main contactor.

Also make sure you install a over voltage transient suppressor across the
main contactor coil that should have come with the Zilla.  Otmar forgot to
send me one, and when I try to start up, the main contactor would not come
on.  Large main contactors coils have a large induction surge which took out
the drivers in the HairBall.  I had to send it back for repair and they send
it back with a suppressor.

To read data on the terminal program, you first must have the 12 volt power
at pin # 1 and 2.  Don't relied on # 1 going to chassis ground to pick up
the negative 12 volt.  I had to remove the paint off the both controller
units mounting feet and install a 12V neg wire from the 12 volt battery to
the bolt on the controller mounting and hairball mounting.  Then I made a
jump from this negative ground point to pin #1.

Then after there is a good 12 volt voltage at pin# 1 and 2, then applied 12
V + ignition to pin# 3.  The terminal program should come up.  You do not
have to go to the start position to up load the program.

In my motor bay,  I install a test switch that puts 12 V+ on pin 3 so I do
not have to go and turn on the ignition switch on and off each time when I
am running the data program.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 4:37 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EV frustrations


> I'm trying to test a new version of my ZillConfig program.  So I headed
> out to the shop where the EV is parked.  I haven't used it in a few
> weeks, but that shouldn't be enough to worry about.
> Hooked up to the Z2K, and my program reported that it was getting bad
> responses from the Zilla.
> hmm, so I ran a terminal program to see what it's getting.  Nothing.  No
> responses at all.
> Very odd, so I tried turning the key on to see if that triggered a
> response.  Nothing.  No dash lights, no open-door dinging, dead.
> AARRGGHH the 12v battery had gone dead.  Looks like I'll have to do some
> checking to see how much parasitic draw there is!
>
> So I put the charger on it for an hour.
> Ran the terminal to check Zilla communcations, and... nothing.  No
> responses at all.
> Turning the car on lights the "main contactor off" (yellow) light, and
> no others.
> Clicking the ignition to "start" doesn't cause the main contactor to
> come on either.
>
> Something is WRONG.
>
> --
> --
> John G. Lussmyer   mailto:[hidden email]
> Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

Bill Dube
First, my congratulations to Derek Barger and Shawn Lawless for
designing building the battery packs and designing and building the
drive package. Looks like it worked great. The battery packs looked awesome!

 From what I knew beforehand, and what I saw on the show, Shawn did a
lot of work getting the drive package together, up, and running. They
really glossed over that _huge_ effort he made in the TV show.

It looked like Derek had a good time helping with the build. He
seemed to get a decent amount of air time and his business, High Tech
Systems got quite a few plugs on the show. Again, the packs looked fantastic.

It is indeed a landmark moment when they put a hybrid on a such a
die-hard "gear head" type TV show. I'm glad to see it, but the show
could have been a lot more positive about the drive package.

They put on so many "bells and whistles" that the wiring on the bike
became a spaghetti nightmare. The show plot and dialog made it seem
that all electric and hybrid vehicles are this complicated by their
nature, rather than say that the complication was due to all the
extra stuff they put on the bike. (A tilt and pan security camera,
for example.) The average person that watches this show will think
that hybrids are hideously complicated, dangerous, and really hard to
understand and maintain.

The protracted "road flare" melt-down discussion was particularly
negative. This was really negative PR for electrics without any
justification.

Nice looking bike in the end. The original proposal was for a pure
series-hybrid bike, which I advised against. It looks like Shawn
managed to convince them to do the more sensible thing and build a
parallel hybrid. I noticed that they are still officially calling it
a series hybrid, however.

Bill Dube'

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Re: Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

Roger Heuckeroth
Paul Sr. did a hack job at describing the bike.  You could tell he  
doesn't give a crap about it.

Where those motors the High Performance Golf Cart 50 HP / 100 ftlb  
motors (HP-50 If I recall correctly)?  And was that a Curtis 3 phase  
controller?

I'm assuming each 115V pack was dedicated to each motor?

Now that the cats out of the bag, so to speak, I would like to here  
about some of the more in depth design details.



On Jan 14, 2010, at 10:57 PM, Bill Dube wrote:

> First, my congratulations to Derek Barger and Shawn Lawless for
> designing building the battery packs and designing and building the
> drive package. Looks like it worked great. The battery packs looked  
> awesome!
>
> From what I knew beforehand, and what I saw on the show, Shawn did a
> lot of work getting the drive package together, up, and running. They
> really glossed over that _huge_ effort he made in the TV show.
>
> It looked like Derek had a good time helping with the build. He
> seemed to get a decent amount of air time and his business, High Tech
> Systems got quite a few plugs on the show. Again, the packs looked  
> fantastic.
>
> It is indeed a landmark moment when they put a hybrid on a such a
> die-hard "gear head" type TV show. I'm glad to see it, but the show
> could have been a lot more positive about the drive package.
>
> They put on so many "bells and whistles" that the wiring on the bike
> became a spaghetti nightmare. The show plot and dialog made it seem
> that all electric and hybrid vehicles are this complicated by their
> nature, rather than say that the complication was due to all the
> extra stuff they put on the bike. (A tilt and pan security camera,
> for example.) The average person that watches this show will think
> that hybrids are hideously complicated, dangerous, and really hard to
> understand and maintain.
>
> The protracted "road flare" melt-down discussion was particularly
> negative. This was really negative PR for electrics without any
> justification.
>
> Nice looking bike in the end. The original proposal was for a pure
> series-hybrid bike, which I advised against. It looks like Shawn
> managed to convince them to do the more sensible thing and build a
> parallel hybrid. I noticed that they are still officially calling it
> a series hybrid, however.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
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> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

KilowattA798
In reply to this post by Bill Dube
Shawn, Great work, It will get all those folks that saw the show talking
EVs!Just what we all want.

Dennis Berube
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Re: Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

Rick Beebe
In reply to this post by Bill Dube
Bill Dube wrote:
> First, my congratulations to Derek Barger and Shawn Lawless for
> designing building the battery packs and designing and building the
> drive package. Looks like it worked great. The battery packs looked awesome!

My congrats too. Great effort. The battery packs were terrific--I'll
take four please.

> From what I knew beforehand, and what I saw on the show, Shawn did a
> lot of work getting the drive package together, up, and running. They
> really glossed over that _huge_ effort he made in the TV show.

Agreed.

> They put on so many "bells and whistles" that the wiring on the bike
> became a spaghetti nightmare. The show plot and dialog made it seem
> that all electric and hybrid vehicles are this complicated by their
> nature, rather than say that the complication was due to all the
> extra stuff they put on the bike. (A tilt and pan security camera,
> for example.)

And all the fancy LED lighting. And, undoubtedly, the other goodies
controlled by the touchscreen. Wow. If that bike runs a month without
something going wrong I'll be amazed. BUT, I'll bet a fair amount of
wiring was sensors, etc, to allow seamless non-driver-controlled
transitions between the gas engine and the electric motors.

> The protracted "road flare" melt-down discussion was particularly
> negative. This was really negative PR for electrics without any
> justification.

Paul Sr. was at the unveiling for his celebrity value. Too bad
they didn't also send someone more knowledgeable because it was pretty
obvious he didn't have the slightest idea how the thing worked. Or maybe
they did but it got left out of the show.

Thank goodness I recorded the show so I could skip over all the family
drama and commercials. Made for a nice 20 minute show.

--Rick

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Re: EV frustrations

John Lussmyer
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
Okay, at this time I KNOW the Hairball is fried, battery is probably
toast as well.
I left the battery on a good automatic charger overnight.
This morning it was flashing an error indication, and when I reset it,
it said the battery was only 15% charged.  (It had been up to 70% the
night before).
While the charger was running, voltage was around 13.2v.  (i.e. sucking
a lot of juice)
Checked the Hairball.  0v on the SLI input.
The 5A fuse I had to it was blown.  I checked the wiring to be sure it
hadn't come loose, and tried replacing the fuse.
The Hairball proceeded to let out the magic smoke.  Didn't blow the new
fuse - as it wasn't even all the way in when the smoke appeared, and I
removed it VERY quickly.

sigh.

This problem seems to have occurred while the vehicle was parked for a
month or so.  It had been "top off" charged at least once during that time.
Something killed the 12V battery (or it was just a really bad battery to
start with).
The truck itself only has about a 12.5ma parasitic draw.  I know the
Hairball adds considerably to that, but I don't remember how much.

John G. Lussmyer wrote:

> I'm trying to test a new version of my ZillConfig program.  So I headed
> out to the shop where the EV is parked.  I haven't used it in a few
> weeks, but that shouldn't be enough to worry about.
> Hooked up to the Z2K, and my program reported that it was getting bad
> responses from the Zilla.
> hmm, so I ran a terminal program to see what it's getting.  Nothing.  No
> responses at all.
> Very odd, so I tried turning the key on to see if that triggered a
> response.  Nothing.  No dash lights, no open-door dinging, dead.
> AARRGGHH the 12v battery had gone dead.  Looks like I'll have to do some
> checking to see how much parasitic draw there is!
>
> So I put the charger on it for an hour.
> Ran the terminal to check Zilla communcations, and... nothing.  No
> responses at all.
> Turning the car on lights the "main contactor off" (yellow) light, and
> no others.
> Clicking the ignition to "start" doesn't cause the main contactor to
> come on either.
>
> Something is WRONG.
>
>  


--
--
John G. Lussmyer  mailto:[hidden email]
Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com


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Re: EV frustrations

Jeff Major


--- On Fri, 1/15/10, John G. Lussmyer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The truck itself only has about a 12.5ma parasitic
> draw.  I know the
> Hairball adds considerably to that, but I don't remember
> how much.
>

I measured it at 52 mA when the SLI Hairball input was connected and nothing else on.

Took about 10 days to draw my little aux battery down to 4 volts.


     

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Re: Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

lawlessind
In reply to this post by Bill Dube
Thanks Bill.

Here are some"insider" details of the bike's drive system.

As you said, their original plan was for a straight series hybrid bike.
  My argument to them was that a 50hp, 850 lb bike with a 100 cubic inch
Vtwin wasn't going to be a win for them even if everything went
perfect.  It would be too nerdy and wimpy for the performance and
Harley crowd, and burn way too many dead dinosaurs and make way too
much noise for the green folks.  I came up with the 4 mode hybrid
system and pitched it at our initial design meeting at OCC.  They loved
the idea but the schedule was ridiculously tight and there wasn't any
room for error.  I had two weeks to prove out the electrical and
mechanical design.  The best way was to build a prototype so while I
got busy on design and procurement  I had my shop tear down the ANGUS
drag bike and prep the chassis for use as a test mule. It was the
perfect candidate.  We first replaced the GE drag motors with two AC-20
units I bought from Brian Hall.  Brian also supplied the matching
Curtis AC inverters and software cable.  Next we removed the big A123
pack and installed a 108 volt 9S-2P pack of Deka 14 amp-hr batteries
left over from AGNS's lead acid racing days.  Behind the pack I mounted
an old Briggs 5hp horizontal shaft engine.  I built the mechanical link
design around two 250 ft-lb rated 12volt clutches.  We adapted one of
them to fit the Honda engine and the other to fit one of the AC20's.  
We machined special sprockets to fit them as well.  The configuration
was as follows: The engine was in front and had an on or off clutch.  
This clutch drove a sprocket with a 50 series chain that went to a
sprocket on the shaft of the front AC-20 motor.  Another sprocket on
that same shaft was connected by a second chain to the second clutch on
the rear AC-20.  The live portion of the rear AC-20 had a sprocket
which directly connected to the rear wheel by use of a third chain.  We
mounted a bank of potentiometers and switches where the gas take use to
be to control the whole thing.  These are the 4 modes I wanted.

Mode 1: Default Mode.  This was a simple, single motor electric bike.
When the ignition switch was turned on this is what you got.  The rear
motor drove the rear wheel.  Excellent for trade shows, amateur riders,
parades ( love those parades!), etc... Variable regen was intiated by a
rotary pot, (later replaced by a pot brake lever).

Mode 2: Series Hybrid.  This was single motor rear drive with the
engine powering the front AC-20 which acted as a generator.  Cruise
till you run out of gas then ride home on electric.

Mode 3: Full Power.  This was the mode that Skeeter from OCC and I
really pushed for.  The engine and both AC-20's locked together and
driving the rear wheel.

Mode 4: Twin motor Pure Electric.  I called this the Plug in Hybrid
mode.  No engine. Both AC-20 motors locked together to provide high
power, high speed, silent electric cruising.


Drawing on oodles of experience with our drag bikes, my crew at Lawless
Industries pulled off an outstanding feat of putting this all together
in a reliable test package in less than a week.   I took the bike to
Quaker City and ran it thru all 4 modes.  We needed to find out if this
whole thing would work like it was drawn on paper.  I haven't had so
much fun at the drag strip in a long while.

This was my run in mode 3:

Remove the fwd run demand from the rear motor and turn it on for the
front.
Lock in the front clutch
Blip the throttle and use the front motor to start the engine.
Open the front clutch
Lock in the rear clutch
Turn on fwd demand for rear motor
Stage the bike
Run the engine throttle to full
Launch the bike full throttle in twin electric mode
100 ft out lock in the front clutch
Hang on
At 3/4 track disengage the front clutch to avoid scattering the poor
little engine
After finish line (100 mph or so) let go of handlebar with left hand
and turn both regen pots to slow the bike.
Breathe

What you saw on the show that I rode into OCC was what is described
above.    One would not think that  the 5hp engine would even be
noticeable but when I pulled it in on the strip I could actually feel a
difference in acceleration.  The system worked just like it was
supposed to.   We had ourselves a mean, green, be what you want to be
machine.

My experience at OCC to follow..........


Shawn Lawless






-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2010 10:57 pm
Subject: [EVDL] Hybrid Bike on American Chopper


First, my congratulations to Derek Barger and Shawn Lawless for
designing building the battery packs and designing and building the
drive package. Looks like it worked great. The battery packs looked
awesome!

 From what I knew beforehand, and what I saw on the show, Shawn did a
lot of work getting the drive package together, up, and running. They
really glossed over that _huge_ effort he made in the TV show.

It looked like Derek had a good time helping with the build. He
seemed to get a decent amount of air time and his business, High Tech
Systems got quite a few plugs on the show. Again, the packs looked
fantastic.

It is indeed a landmark moment when they put a hybrid on a such a
die-hard "gear head" type TV show. I'm glad to see it, but the show
could have been a lot more positive about the drive package.

They put on so many "bells and whistles" that the wiring on the bike
became a spaghetti nightmare. The show plot and dialog made it seem
that all electric and hybrid vehicles are this complicated by their
nature, rather than say that the complication was due to all the
extra stuff they put on the bike. (A tilt and pan security camera,
for example.) The average person that watches this show will think
that hybrids are hideously complicated, dangerous, and really hard to
understand and maintain.

The protracted "road flare" melt-down discussion was particularly
negative. This was really negative PR for electrics without any
justification.

Nice looking bike in the end. The original proposal was for a pure
series-hybrid bike, which I advised against. It looks like Shawn
managed to convince them to do the more sensible thing and build a
parallel hybrid. I noticed that they are still officially calling it
a series hybrid, however.

Bill Dube'

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rechargeamerica.net

Osmo Sarin
For you folks in USA and Canada:

http://www.rechargeamerica.net/progs/road2/road2.html

Not sure if this has been mentioned on this list yet. Seems  
interesting though, if it really works.  More info about the  
application here:

http://celadonapps.com/


-Osmo




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Fwd: Re: Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

lawlessind
In reply to this post by lawlessind



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2010 9:40 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Bike on American Chopper



Thanks Bill.

Here are some"insider" details of the bike's drive system.

As you said, their original plan was for a straight series hybrid bike.
My argument to them was that a 50hp, 850 lb bike with a 100 cubic inch
Vtwin wasn't going to be a win for them even if everything went
perfect.  It would be too nerdy and wimpy for the performance and
Harley crowd, and burn way too many dead dinosaurs and make way too
much noise for the green folks.  I came up with the 4 mode hybrid
system and pitched it at our initial design meeting at OCC.  They loved
the idea but the schedule was ridiculously tight and there wasn't any
room for error.  I had two weeks to prove out the electrical and
mechanical design.  The best way was to build a prototype so while I
got busy on design and procurement  I had my shop tear down the ANGUS
drag bike and prep the chassis for use as a test mule. It was the
perfect candidate.  We first replaced the GE drag motors with two AC-20
units I bought from Brian Hall.  Brian also supplied the matching
Curtis AC inverters and software cable.  Next we removed the big A123
pack and installed a 108 volt 9S-2P pack of Deka 14 amp-hr batteries
left over from AGNS's lead acid racing days.  Behind the pack I mounted
an old Briggs 5hp horizontal shaft engine.  I built the mechanical link
design around two 250 ft-lb rated 12volt clutches.  We adapted one of
them to fit the Honda engine and the other to fit one of the AC20's.
We machined special sprockets to fit them as well.  The configuration
was as follows: The engine was in front and had an on or off clutch.
This clutch drove a sprocket with a 50 series chain that went to a
sprocket on the shaft of the front AC-20 motor.  Another sprocket on
that same shaft was connected by a second chain to the second clutch on
the rear AC-20.  The live portion of the rear AC-20 had a sprocket
which directly connected to the rear wheel by use of a third chain.  We
mounted a bank of potentiometers and switches where the gas take use to
be to control the whole thing.  These are the 4 modes I wanted.

Mode 1: Default Mode.  This was a simple, single motor electric bike.
When the ignition switch was turned on this is what you got.  The rear
motor drove the rear wheel.  Excellent for trade shows, amateur riders,
parades ( love those parades!), etc... Variable regen was intiated by a
rotary pot, (later replaced by a pot brake lever).

Mode 2: Series Hybrid.  This was single motor rear drive with the
engine powering the front AC-20 which acted as a generator.  Cruise
till you run out of gas then ride home on electric.

Mode 3: Full Power.  This was the mode that Skeeter from OCC and I
really pushed for.  The engine and both AC-20's locked together and
driving the rear wheel.

Mode 4: Twin motor Pure Electric.  I called this the Plug in Hybrid
mode.  No engine. Both AC-20 motors locked together to provide high
power, high speed, silent electric cruising.

Drawing on oodles of experience with our drag bikes, my crew at Lawless
Industries pulled off an outstanding feat of putting this all together
in a reliable test package in less than a week.   I took the bike to
Quaker City and ran it thru all 4 modes.  We needed to find out if this
whole thing would work like it was drawn on paper.  I haven't had so
much fun at the drag strip in a long while.

This was my run in mode 3:

Remove the fwd run demand from the rear motor and turn it on for the
front.

Lock in the front clutch

Blip the throttle and use the front motor to start the engine.

Open the front clutch

Lock in the rear clutch

Turn on fwd demand for rear motor

Stage the bike

Run the engine throttle to full

Launch the bike full throttle in twin electric mode

100 ft out lock in the front clutch

Hang on

At 3/4 track disengage the front clutch to avoid scattering the poor
little engine

After finish line (100 mph or so) let go of handlebar with left hand
and turn both regen pots to slow the bike.

Breathe

What you saw on the show that I rode into OCC was what is described
above.    One would not think that  the 5hp engine would even be
noticeable but when I pulled it in on the strip I could actually feel a
difference in acceleration.  The system worked just like it was
supposed to.   We had ourselves a mean, green, be what you want to be
machine.

My experience at OCC to follow..........

Shawn Lawless

-----Original Message-----

From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]>

To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>

Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2010 10:57 pm

Subject: [EVDL] Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

First, my congratulations to Derek Barger and Shawn Lawless for

designing building the battery packs and designing and building the

drive package. Looks like it worked great. The battery packs looked
awesome!

 From what I knew beforehand, and what I saw on the show, Shawn did a

lot of work getting the drive package together, up, and running. They

really glossed over that _huge_ effort he made in the TV show.

It looked like Derek had a good time helping with the build. He

seemed to get a decent amount of air time and his business, High Tech

Systems got quite a few plugs on the show. Again, the packs looked
fantastic.

It is indeed a landmark moment when they put a hybrid on a such a

die-hard "gear head" type TV show. I'm glad to see it, but the show

could have been a lot more positive about the drive package.

They put on so many "bells and whistles" that the wiring on the bike

became a spaghetti nightmare. The show plot and dialog made it seem

that all electric and hybrid vehicles are this complicated by their

nature, rather than say that the complication was due to all the

extra stuff they put on the bike. (A tilt and pan security camera,

for example.) The average person that watches this show will think

that hybrids are hideously complicated, dangerous, and really hard to

understand and maintain.

The protracted "road flare" melt-down discussion was particularly

negative. This was really negative PR for electrics without any

justification.

Nice looking bike in the end. The original proposal was for a pure

series-hybrid bike, which I advised against. It looks like Shawn

managed to convince them to do the more sensible thing and build a

parallel hybrid. I noticed that they are still officially calling it

a series hybrid, however.

Bill Dube'

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Re: Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

Lawrence Rhodes
In reply to this post by Bill Dube
Impressive design.  Will the gas motor work on alcohol?  What kind of economy do you expect?  Will the gen system run the electric system and if so with what performance?  Is this a run as far as you can vehicle or does it need to be charged for full power?  Lawrence Rhodes.

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Re: Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

Morgan LaMoore
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Lawrence Rhodes
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Impressive design.  Will the gas motor work on alcohol?  What kind of economy do you expect?  Will the gen system run the electric system and if so with what performance?  Is this a run as far as you can vehicle or does it need to be charged for full power?  Lawrence Rhodes.

At the end of his e-mail, he said it's a 5HP ICE. I don't think that's
even enough to cruise on, much less accelerate. It should be a great
range extender, though.

-Morgan LaMoore

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Re: Hybrid Bike on American Chopper

lawlessind
Clarification.  I originally installed a Honda ohv  6.5 hp engine.  The
clutch field confused the electronic ignition so I switched to an old
Briggs with points ignition and it worked great.  The finished OCC bike
had a 100 cubic inch  SS motor with over 100 ft-lbs and 100 hp.

Shawn


-----Original Message-----
From: Morgan LaMoore <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2010 5:54 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Bike on American Chopper


On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Lawrence Rhodes
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Impressive design.  Will the gas motor work on alcohol?  What kind of
economy
do you expect?  Will the gen system run the electric system and if so
with what
performance?  Is this a run as far as you can vehicle or does it need
to be
charged for full power?  Lawrence Rhodes.

At the end of his e-mail, he said it's a 5HP ICE. I don't think that's
even enough to cruise on, much less accelerate. It should be a great
range extender, though.

-Morgan LaMoore

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