EV undercoating options?

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EV undercoating options?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Has anyone here had their EV undercoated?  I know a lot of vehicle's
warranties state that their corrosion coverage could be void if any rust
inhibitors are applied. And some rustproofing products will degrade rubber
and plastic over time- not good for high voltage cables.  But without
rustproofing EVs (even aluminium bodied Teslas) in the salt belt will rust
and eventually perforate.  I have been undercoating my own vehicles for
many years now and have found fluid film to be a great product.  Rubberized
coatings are NOT good rustproofing solutions, they chip with rock / salt
debris, forming a pocket that holds salty water between it and the metal.
So do you undercoat or hope your warranty will hold when major rust comes?
  What happens after the warranty?  Are there any approved good rust
inhibitors for EVs out there?
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Re: EV undercoating options?

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I use fluid film on all my vehicles. I pay for the first coverage and do my own each fall before the winter weather starts here in New England. Never had any issues with degradation or corrosion. I would also tell you my cousin has a plowing business and his salt spreaders are 8 years old with zero rust/corrosion. Other companies get 4-5 years without fluid film. It is a good product just needs to be reapplied.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2019, at 3:09 PM, Dan Baker via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone here had their EV undercoated?  I know a lot of vehicle's
> warranties state that their corrosion coverage could be void if any rust
> inhibitors are applied. And some rustproofing products will degrade rubber
> and plastic over time- not good for high voltage cables.  But without
> rustproofing EVs (even aluminium bodied Teslas) in the salt belt will rust
> and eventually perforate.  I have been undercoating my own vehicles for
> many years now and have found fluid film to be a great product.  Rubberized
> coatings are NOT good rustproofing solutions, they chip with rock / salt
> debris, forming a pocket that holds salty water between it and the metal.
> So do you undercoat or hope your warranty will hold when major rust comes?
>  What happens after the warranty?  Are there any approved good rust
> inhibitors for EVs out there?
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Re: EV undercoating options?

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On 12 Sep 2019 at 8:41, Michael Mike via EV wrote:

> I use fluid film on all my vehicles.

Is that a 20 dollar name for oil spray, by any chance?  

I used to have my ICEVs oil sprayed 40+ years ago. I wouldn't do it today,
nor would I do it to an EV.  Old cars tended to have more steel and less
plastic.  Today's vehicles, especially EVs (for weight saving)  have many
more petroleum-based parts.

Also, bak then I didn't think much about the oil that dripped from the cars
after spraying -- so many cars leaked fluids anyway -- but I'd be more
concerned now.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: EV undercoating options?

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It is actually more than oil. There are really good rust inhibitors in the chemistry. The fluid goes on the consistency of gear oil and congeals in 24 hours. It is always ‘wet’. Here in NE a coating/respray runs $175. You can by the product in line and apply it yourself. One gallon is enough to coat 2 full size trucks.

I will tell you in my younger days I used 50/50 mix of used gear and engine oil. A word of caution as this is flammable if you use it on an ICE. This is much cheaper, has to be reapplied every 6 mos, and smells all the time. Fluid film smells for 24 hours during the cure period. The oil mix above kept my dads 1974 C10 from rusting for over 18 years...a huge accomplishment in the northeast.

 Fluid film is as good or better.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:39 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 12 Sep 2019 at 8:41, Michael Mike via EV wrote:
>>
>> I use fluid film on all my vehicles.
>
> Is that a 20 dollar name for oil spray, by any chance?  
>
> I used to have my ICEVs oil sprayed 40+ years ago. I wouldn't do it today,
> nor would I do it to an EV.  Old cars tended to have more steel and less
> plastic.  Today's vehicles, especially EVs (for weight saving)  have many
> more petroleum-based parts.
>
> Also, bak then I didn't think much about the oil that dripped from the cars
> after spraying -- so many cars leaked fluids anyway -- but I'd be more
> concerned now.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: EV undercoating options?

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I’ve got to think that there are better solutions that don’t require contaminating waterways or groundwater.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Michael Mike via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It is actually more than oil. There are really good rust inhibitors in the chemistry. The fluid goes on the consistency of gear oil and congeals in 24 hours. It is always ‘wet’. Here in NE a coating/respray runs $175. You can by the product in line and apply it yourself. One gallon is enough to coat 2 full size trucks.
>
> I will tell you in my younger days I used 50/50 mix of used gear and engine oil. A word of caution as this is flammable if you use it on an ICE. This is much cheaper, has to be reapplied every 6 mos, and smells all the time. Fluid film smells for 24 hours during the cure period. The oil mix above kept my dads 1974 C10 from rusting for over 18 years...a huge accomplishment in the northeast.
>
> Fluid film is as good or better.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:39 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12 Sep 2019 at 8:41, Michael Mike via EV wrote:
>>>
>>> I use fluid film on all my vehicles.
>>
>> Is that a 20 dollar name for oil spray, by any chance?  
>>
>> I used to have my ICEVs oil sprayed 40+ years ago. I wouldn't do it today,
>> nor would I do it to an EV.  Old cars tended to have more steel and less
>> plastic.  Today's vehicles, especially EVs (for weight saving)  have many
>> more petroleum-based parts.
>>
>> Also, bak then I didn't think much about the oil that dripped from the cars
>> after spraying -- so many cars leaked fluids anyway -- but I'd be more
>> concerned now.
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
>> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
>> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>
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>

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leaf senser shutdown damage

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

I'm looking at a leaf that has rather mimor damage to the rear bumper n
trail gate, the air bags did not employe, don't know about seat belt
tensioners.. but it does not run n drive. I've heard about clearing
codes with leaf spy and the car running again.

the car is in another city at a salvge yard so what can I do ?


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Re: leaf senser shutdown damage

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
You'll almost certainly need to charge the 12v battery (or bring your
own) to boot up the system if the car has been sitting for a long time.

When I got a salvage leaf, I had to charge the 12v battery plug in the
bluetooth CAN->Leafspy dongle and then clear trouble codes a few times
with the Leafspy Pro app before it would start up and "drive" around.
(In my case, the drivers airbag did deploy.)

see this link for more details:
https://www.summet.com/blog/2015/03/28/booting-up-a-nissan-leaf

Jay

On 9/12/19 1:36 PM, evtlfp20 via EV wrote:

>
> I'm looking at a leaf that has rather mimor damage to the rear bumper n
> trail gate, the air bags did not employe, don't know about seat belt
> tensioners.. but it does not run n drive. I've heard about clearing
> codes with leaf spy and the car running again.
>
> the car is in another city at a salvge yard so what can I do ?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
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Re: EV undercoating options?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Thanks guys for the info so far.  Michael, I use fluid film too, have my
own shultz gun and buy it by the 5 gallon pail.  It is still expensive at
that size per liter but I can usually do 7-8 cars with it.  David, you must
not be in the rust belt, lucky you. I live in an area where it is a
necessary evil, where Toyota had to replace half of the truck frames on
locally sold Tacomas up to 13 years old.  Factory corrosion inhibitors may
protect vehicles for their warranty but will fail after that or sometimes
even before.  A lot of the warranties have different levels of coverage,
most state they wont cover anything till holes appear.  So having rusty
sills and door bottoms is not covered.  Fluid film isn't petroleum based
but derived from sheep wool.  While it advertises it is safe for all
automotive materials it does state that any overspray on plastics or rubber
should be wiped off.  I have seen other products swell and soften rubber.
 It will be interesting to see how Tesla fairs here, I have seen comments
about rust appearing in crevices in the rear bumper area that can hold
water on Model 3s and grounds failing on their aluminium bodied vehicles.
My Volt has a caveat around coverage if inhibitors are used and rust
through occurs, could void warranty.  I think if the vehicle is sprayed
properly, no additional holes. avoid all the power cabling and rubber,
drains are not blocked they will have a hard time fighting a claim.

Cheers
Dan

On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 1:34 PM EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 12 Sep 2019 at 8:41, Michael Mike via EV wrote:
>
> > I use fluid film on all my vehicles.
>
> Is that a 20 dollar name for oil spray, by any chance?
>
> I used to have my ICEVs oil sprayed 40+ years ago. I wouldn't do it today,
> nor would I do it to an EV.  Old cars tended to have more steel and less
> plastic.  Today's vehicles, especially EVs (for weight saving)  have many
> more petroleum-based parts.
>
> Also, bak then I didn't think much about the oil that dripped from the
> cars
> after spraying -- so many cars leaked fluids anyway -- but I'd be more
> concerned now.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: EV undercoating options?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 12 Sep 2019 at 13:14, Michael Mike via EV wrote:

> It is actually more than oil. There are really good rust inhibitors in the
> chemistry. The fluid goes on the consistency of gear oil and congeals in 24
> hours. It is always ~wetTM.

Thanks.  That sounds more like the stuff I had applied to a used 1970
Plymouth Valiant by a rustproofing chain of the time, Tuff Kote Dinol.  

This would have been around 1973 or so. They used a Cosmolene-like substance
on the exposed underbody areas, and sprayed a thinner liquid similar to what
you describe inside the body panels.  

Some of the liquid ran out in hot weather, but I don't know that much
actually dripped onto the road. Mostly it just gooped up the rocker panels
and other areas under the body drain holes.

Lanolin from sheep is pretty tenacious stuff.  It takes strong detergent to
get it off.  However, it's still an oil, and I'm not sure it would be any
healthier for all the plastic in modern EVs than a petoleum based oil would
be.

BTW, I thought that Tuff Kote Dinol went out of business, but it seems that
it still exists -- in Singapore!

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: EV undercoating options?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I've found Lanoguard to be an effective corrosion inhibitor and I
believe they do use it as a vehicle underseal in New Zealand.

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 at 19:09, Mark Abramowitz via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I’ve got to think that there are better solutions that don’t require contaminating waterways or groundwater.
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Sep 12, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Michael Mike via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > It is actually more than oil. There are really good rust inhibitors in the chemistry. The fluid goes on the consistency of gear oil and congeals in 24 hours. It is always ‘wet’. Here in NE a coating/respray runs $175. You can by the product in line and apply it yourself. One gallon is enough to coat 2 full size trucks.
> >
> > I will tell you in my younger days I used 50/50 mix of used gear and engine oil. A word of caution as this is flammable if you use it on an ICE. This is much cheaper, has to be reapplied every 6 mos, and smells all the time. Fluid film smells for 24 hours during the cure period. The oil mix above kept my dads 1974 C10 from rusting for over 18 years...a huge accomplishment in the northeast.
> >
> > Fluid film is as good or better.
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >>> On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:39 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 12 Sep 2019 at 8:41, Michael Mike via EV wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I use fluid film on all my vehicles.
> >>
> >> Is that a 20 dollar name for oil spray, by any chance?
> >>
> >> I used to have my ICEVs oil sprayed 40+ years ago. I wouldn't do it today,
> >> nor would I do it to an EV.  Old cars tended to have more steel and less
> >> plastic.  Today's vehicles, especially EVs (for weight saving)  have many
> >> more petroleum-based parts.
> >>
> >> Also, bak then I didn't think much about the oil that dripped from the cars
> >> after spraying -- so many cars leaked fluids anyway -- but I'd be more
> >> concerned now.
> >>
> >> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> >> EVDL Administrator
> >>
> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> >> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> >> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
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> >
> >
>
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--
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Re: EV undercoating options?

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I’m just happy that I no longer live where these things are thought to be needed.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Paul Compton via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I've found Lanoguard to be an effective corrosion inhibitor and I
> believe they do use it as a vehicle underseal in New Zealand.
>
>> On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 at 19:09, Mark Abramowitz via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I’ve got to think that there are better solutions that don’t require contaminating waterways or groundwater.
>>
>> - Mark
>>
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Michael Mike via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is actually more than oil. There are really good rust inhibitors in the chemistry. The fluid goes on the consistency of gear oil and congeals in 24 hours. It is always ‘wet’. Here in NE a coating/respray runs $175. You can by the product in line and apply it yourself. One gallon is enough to coat 2 full size trucks.
>>>
>>> I will tell you in my younger days I used 50/50 mix of used gear and engine oil. A word of caution as this is flammable if you use it on an ICE. This is much cheaper, has to be reapplied every 6 mos, and smells all the time. Fluid film smells for 24 hours during the cure period. The oil mix above kept my dads 1974 C10 from rusting for over 18 years...a huge accomplishment in the northeast.
>>>
>>> Fluid film is as good or better.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:39 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12 Sep 2019 at 8:41, Michael Mike via EV wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I use fluid film on all my vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> Is that a 20 dollar name for oil spray, by any chance?
>>>>
>>>> I used to have my ICEVs oil sprayed 40+ years ago. I wouldn't do it today,
>>>> nor would I do it to an EV.  Old cars tended to have more steel and less
>>>> plastic.  Today's vehicles, especially EVs (for weight saving)  have many
>>>> more petroleum-based parts.
>>>>
>>>> Also, bak then I didn't think much about the oil that dripped from the cars
>>>> after spraying -- so many cars leaked fluids anyway -- but I'd be more
>>>> concerned now.
>>>>
>>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>>> EVDL Administrator
>>>>
>>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>>> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
>>>> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
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>
> --
> Paul Compton
> www.morini-mania.co.uk
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Re: EV undercoating options?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
The problem with undercoating is it acts like bowl that holds all the corrosive material you will pickup on the road. Your only hope is full rinsing after every drive in challenging conditions.  You chances of hermetically sealing your car chassis is very unlikely. The places that will be attacked are every crack and crevice on your vehicle.  The only chance of success is not to live anywhere East of the Rockies.  Lawrence Rhodes   
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