EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

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EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EVDL Administrator
The above email providers are currently causing major headaches for all
email discussion lists, including ours.  This page explains the problem much
better than I can:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/04/09/2047205/yahoo-dmarc-implementation-
breaks-most-mailing-lists

http://tinyurl.com/onolce6

AT&T uses Yahoo mail servers, so it has the same problem.  AOL has tagged
along on this.  I've also seen indications that the Microsoft services
(Hotmail, Live, Outlook.com) are rejecting some or all such messages.

This appears to potentially affect between 90 and 140 EVDL members.

A workaround in the list software is pending, but I haven't been able to get
a firm commitment from the support crew on when it will be installed.  

Note that this Yahoo/AOL screwup breaks not only email discussion lists, but
also forwarders and website mailtos and scripts. Thus IMO the right long
term fix is for you to walk away from them and get a different email
account.  

Currently gmail is not causing problems, but who knows for how long?  I'd
recommend that you consider a smaller, independent email provider.

If you can't or don't want to switch email addresses, an interim workaround
until the list is fixed is for you to change to digest mode.  (I notice that
many of the above users are already on digest.)  

Instructions here:

http://evdl.org/help/index.html#dige

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

David Nelson-5
I have to say that Gmail has been marking an increasing number of list
emails as spam even though I have the address in my contact list. Even
the test text message you recently sent showed up in my spam box.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 6:25 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The above email providers are currently causing major headaches for all
> email discussion lists, including ours.  This page explains the problem much
> better than I can:
>
> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/04/09/2047205/yahoo-dmarc-implementation-
> breaks-most-mailing-lists
>
> http://tinyurl.com/onolce6
>
> AT&T uses Yahoo mail servers, so it has the same problem.  AOL has tagged
> along on this.  I've also seen indications that the Microsoft services
> (Hotmail, Live, Outlook.com) are rejecting some or all such messages.
>
> This appears to potentially affect between 90 and 140 EVDL members.
>
> A workaround in the list software is pending, but I haven't been able to get
> a firm commitment from the support crew on when it will be installed.
>
> Note that this Yahoo/AOL screwup breaks not only email discussion lists, but
> also forwarders and website mailtos and scripts. Thus IMO the right long
> term fix is for you to walk away from them and get a different email
> account.
>
> Currently gmail is not causing problems, but who knows for how long?  I'd
> recommend that you consider a smaller, independent email provider.
>
> If you can't or don't want to switch email addresses, an interim workaround
> until the list is fixed is for you to change to digest mode.  (I notice that
> many of the above users are already on digest.)
>
> Instructions here:
>
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#dige
>
> David Roden
> EVDL Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>



--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://www.levforum.com
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EVDL Administrator
On 1 May 2014 at 14:57, David Nelson wrote:

> I have to say that Gmail has been marking an increasing number of list
> emails as spam even though I have the address in my contact list.

I hate to sound like the cynic that I am ;-), but I'm afraid that the
spammers have very nearly destroyed email for all of us. Attempts to keep
them out seem to be well on their way to finishing the job.

There's a lesson in there, I think, but it's WAY off topic for this list,
and probably controversial to boot.  So we'll drop that one right now. :-)

Back to the topic at hand.  IMO, your options for usable email (and I don't
mean just "usable with the EVDL") are narrowing.  

I think the "free" (ad-supported) services will soon be untenable.  I find
it ironic that Yahoo and AOL are so concerned with DMARC policy when they
host many webmail accounts held by pirates who've cracked the account
logins.  (The EVDL's spam filters catch messages from these cracked Yahoo
and AOL accounts almost every day.)

I think that the days of widely available "free" email are probably winding
down.  Most folks who want good email will eventually have to pay for it.

At this point I'd recommend to those with a little tech savvy that rather
than contracting with an email provider, they buy a cheap shared webhosting
account, even if they don't expect to ever use the hosting.  I've seen plans
as low as $5 a month, and there are lots of email-only services that cost
that much.  (There are come-ons for around $2/mo, but they're usually
limited-time promotional deals.)

Most such accounts let you create large or unlimited numbers of mailboxes
and email forwarders.  You can usually access them with a POP3 or IMAP mail
client.  Most also provide webmail, and without the ads you get on the
"free" services.

With hosting accounts, you can usually choose whether you use spam
filtering, and how aggressive it should be.  You can leave your mail
unfiltered; when the address starts attracting spam, junk it, and open a new
mailbox.

If you have to give an address to a website and don't trust it, create a new
forwarder.  If that source does spam you, or sells your address to a spammer
(this happens more often than you might think), just delete the forwarder.

Such a service is useful for folks who have EVDL memberships, and/or are
members of other email discussion lists.  

You can have a read-only address for the list, from which you never send
email.  Since no one but you ever sees this address, you're unlikely to get
spam on it as long as you make it a hard-to-guess address.

When you post, use a write-only address (one whose mailbox dumps right into
the bit bucket).  This list, like most, tries to protect your posting
address; but let's face it, if someone reads one of your posts and leaves it
on his computer, and that computer gets invaded by malware, a spammer is apt
to get your write-only posting address.  It won't matter to you, though,
since you never see incoming spam on that account.

The downside of using a cheap hosting accounts for email is that some hosts
host spammers.  Now and then you'll find your IP address blacklisted.  Then
you have to file a support request, hoping they throw the bums off and get
the blacklist lifted for you.

Ah, for the early days of the net, when it was mostly just academics and
computer hobbyists, and you could publish your address on the then-new web
with the  expectation that only reasonable, decent folks would use it.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EV professor
I recieved a message from AOL where-in they explained their concern for my
safety and blocking spam and they said G-Mail was following soon.  Perhaps
we should convert to the system "DYI Electric Car" uses and check in
occassionally on the conversations instead of having the torrents of
E-Mails we are accustomed to. Changing with the times, so to speak.

*Dennis Lee Miles *

*Director   **E.V.T.I. Inc.*

*E-Mail:*  *[hidden email]* <[hidden email]>

   *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913*

Dade City, Florida 33523

 USA




On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 7:02 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1 May 2014 at 14:57, David Nelson wrote:
>
> > I have to say that Gmail has been marking an increasing number of list
> > emails as spam even though I have the address in my contact list.
>
> I hate to sound like the cynic that I am ;-), but I'm afraid that the
> spammers have very nearly destroyed email for all of us. Attempts to keep
> them out seem to be well on their way to finishing the job.
>
> There's a lesson in there, I think, but it's WAY off topic for this list,
> and probably controversial to boot.  So we'll drop that one right now. :-)
>
> Back to the topic at hand.  IMO, your options for usable email (and I don't
> mean just "usable with the EVDL") are narrowing.
>
> I think the "free" (ad-supported) services will soon be untenable.  I find
> it ironic that Yahoo and AOL are so concerned with DMARC policy when they
> host many webmail accounts held by pirates who've cracked the account
> logins.  (The EVDL's spam filters catch messages from these cracked Yahoo
> and AOL accounts almost every day.)
>
> I think that the days of widely available "free" email are probably winding
> down.  Most folks who want good email will eventually have to pay for it.
>
> At this point I'd recommend to those with a little tech savvy that rather
> than contracting with an email provider, they buy a cheap shared webhosting
> account, even if they don't expect to ever use the hosting.  I've seen
> plans
> as low as $5 a month, and there are lots of email-only services that cost
> that much.  (There are come-ons for around $2/mo, but they're usually
> limited-time promotional deals.)
>
> Most such accounts let you create large or unlimited numbers of mailboxes
> and email forwarders.  You can usually access them with a POP3 or IMAP mail
> client.  Most also provide webmail, and without the ads you get on the
> "free" services.
>
> With hosting accounts, you can usually choose whether you use spam
> filtering, and how aggressive it should be.  You can leave your mail
> unfiltered; when the address starts attracting spam, junk it, and open a
> new
> mailbox.
>
> If you have to give an address to a website and don't trust it, create a
> new
> forwarder.  If that source does spam you, or sells your address to a
> spammer
> (this happens more often than you might think), just delete the forwarder.
>
> Such a service is useful for folks who have EVDL memberships, and/or are
> members of other email discussion lists.
>
> You can have a read-only address for the list, from which you never send
> email.  Since no one but you ever sees this address, you're unlikely to get
> spam on it as long as you make it a hard-to-guess address.
>
> When you post, use a write-only address (one whose mailbox dumps right into
> the bit bucket).  This list, like most, tries to protect your posting
> address; but let's face it, if someone reads one of your posts and leaves
> it
> on his computer, and that computer gets invaded by malware, a spammer is
> apt
> to get your write-only posting address.  It won't matter to you, though,
> since you never see incoming spam on that account.
>
> The downside of using a cheap hosting accounts for email is that some hosts
> host spammers.  Now and then you'll find your IP address blacklisted.  Then
> you have to file a support request, hoping they throw the bums off and get
> the blacklist lifted for you.
>
> Ah, for the early days of the net, when it was mostly just academics and
> computer hobbyists, and you could publish your address on the then-new web
> with the  expectation that only reasonable, decent folks would use it.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EVDL Administrator
On 1 May 2014 at 22:40, Dennis Miles wrote:

> Perhaps we should convert to the system "DYI Electric Car" uses and
> check in occassionally on the conversations instead of having the
> torrents of E-Mails we are accustomed to. Changing with the times, so
> to speak.

This is a discussion we've had countless times over the years.  It's been a
while, so I suppose we're going to have to go over it again.  ;-)

Though I'm not a regular at DIY, as far as I can tell, they do the webforum
thing pretty well.   What would an EVDL webforum have to offer over that?
What would prompt people to give some of their valuable time to us, when
there's already an ongoing and effective resource of the same type?  

An EVDL webforum would probably be ad-free and noncommercial.  However, my
perception is that while that matters to me and a few other people, most
folks just block the ads.  Some block them with browser plugins; others
block them in their minds, or at least they think they do.

We'd certainly be more for privacy.  We wouldn't track our users or sell
their preference data (I don't know for sure that DIY does this, but most ad-
supported sites do; just view the page source to see all the calls to third-
party URLs).  Again, though, I think that matters to only a small number of
people.

IMO, the fact that the EVDL uses email is its main advantage.  Maybe I'm not
typical, but I have logins on several webforums for my other interests.  I
find one that's interesting, sign up, read it for a while, contribute here
and there - and then get busy and drift away.  I have links for lots of them
in my browser's bookmarks toolbar, but I still don't visit most daily, or
even weekly.

I read EVDL mail every day, simply because it's there when I open my mail.  
But would I visit it on a webforum daily?  Doubtful.  Would you?  Really?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EV professor
I see your point David. I would note that on DIY electric car, they do
e-mail whenever a comment is made after you comment , And I am not sure if
it can be programmed to notify via E-Mail in case of a new discussion you
have not commented in.  The software for the program DIY EC uses was free
and I use an net-hosting service which only charges $2 monthly including
the web domain registration and they have been giving me good service on my
8 domains for about 5 years...www.EVprofessor.com , www.evti.org , and
www.electricVehicleTechnicalinstitute.com (and the same .org ) And
www.DennisLeeMiles.com and others... I also have faded away from DIY ec in
the past four or five years. but I did have an icon on my desktop which fed
it right in whenever I had time and the multiple discussion groups let me
find items which appealed to me at the time and delay others until I had
more time... It would seem to me if AOL and others are going to block our
E-Mail we need a "Work-Around" and a forum like FYI or a Google group might
be a reasonable alternative to consider, that is only my opinion, but now
is perhaps the time to get ready...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 It seems the major AOL gripe is using an alias for a return (FROM) address
Cannot we use the true "FROM" and place a comment in the e-mail to direct
all replies to the "EVDL.com" , or whatever is appropriate ???

*Dennis Lee Miles *

*Director   **E.V.T.I. Inc.*

*E-Mail:*  *[hidden email]* <[hidden email]>

   *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913*

Dade City, Florida 33523

 USA




On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 11:51 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1 May 2014 at 22:40, Dennis Miles wrote:
>
> > Perhaps we should convert to the system "DYI Electric Car" uses and
> > check in occassionally on the conversations instead of having the
> > torrents of E-Mails we are accustomed to. Changing with the times, so
> > to speak.
>
> This is a discussion we've had countless times over the years.  It's been a
> while, so I suppose we're going to have to go over it again.  ;-)
>
> Though I'm not a regular at DIY, as far as I can tell, they do the webforum
> thing pretty well.   What would an EVDL webforum have to offer over that?
> What would prompt people to give some of their valuable time to us, when
> there's already an ongoing and effective resource of the same type?
>
> An EVDL webforum would probably be ad-free and noncommercial.  However, my
> perception is that while that matters to me and a few other people, most
> folks just block the ads.  Some block them with browser plugins; others
> block them in their minds, or at least they think they do.
>
> We'd certainly be more for privacy.  We wouldn't track our users or sell
> their preference data (I don't know for sure that DIY does this, but most
> ad-
> supported sites do; just view the page source to see all the calls to
> third-
> party URLs).  Again, though, I think that matters to only a small number of
> people.
>
> IMO, the fact that the EVDL uses email is its main advantage.  Maybe I'm
> not
> typical, but I have logins on several webforums for my other interests.  I
> find one that's interesting, sign up, read it for a while, contribute here
> and there - and then get busy and drift away.  I have links for lots of
> them
> in my browser's bookmarks toolbar, but I still don't visit most daily, or
> even weekly.
>
> I read EVDL mail every day, simply because it's there when I open my mail.
> But would I visit it on a webforum daily?  Doubtful.  Would you?  Really?
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

David Chapman-9
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
David,
I have tried to change to digest as you suggest but I cannot seem to retrieve my password using the method you suggest. I enter my email address, hit the "remind" button (twice now) and it says its sending my pw but after quite a wait (1/2 hour) still nothing. I probably have not changed my settings in years so I have no idea what my PW might have been. Any suggestions? Dach.

 

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 11:44 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
The above email providers are currently causing major headaches for all
email discussion lists, including ours.  This page explains the problem much
better than I can:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/04/09/2047205/yahoo-dmarc-implementation-
breaks-most-mailing-lists

http://tinyurl.com/onolce6

AT&T uses Yahoo mail servers, so it has the same problem.  AOL has tagged
along on this.  I've also seen indications that the Microsoft services
(Hotmail, Live, Outlook.com) are rejecting some or all such messages.

This appears to potentially affect between 90 and 140 EVDL members.

A workaround in the list software is pending, but I haven't been able to get
a firm commitment from the support crew on when it will be installed. 

Note that this Yahoo/AOL screwup breaks not only email discussion lists, but
also forwarders and website mailtos and scripts. Thus IMO the right long
term fix is for you to walk away from them and get a different email
account. 

Currently gmail is not causing problems, but who knows for how long?  I'd
recommend that you consider a smaller, independent email provider.

If you can't or don't want to switch email addresses, an interim workaround
until the list is fixed is for you to change to digest mode.  (I notice that
many of the above users are already on digest.) 

Instructions here:

http://evdl.org/help/index.html#dige

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by EV professor
On 2 May 2014 at 2:51, Dennis Miles wrote:

> It seems the major AOL gripe is using an alias for a return (FROM)
> address Cannot we use the true "FROM" and place a comment in the e-mail
> to direct all replies to the "EVDL.com" , or whatever is appropriate
> ???

Well, that's sort of what the updated list sotware will do.

RIght now, when you send a post to the list, it sends it on to Yahoo, AOL,
Gmail, Roadrunner, and so on.  When it arrives at the destination server it
says, "Hi, I'm from Dennis Miles.  I know it looks like I come from the
EVDL, but I'm really from Dennis.  Trust me."

In the new version, the message will tell Yahoo and the other guys, "Hi, I'm
from the EVDL.  I have a message here from Dennis Miles."

This change makes Yahoo (and AOL) happy again.  The only downside I know of
is that some (many?) emali systems will show this in their message list as
FROM the EVDL, with no indication of who wrote it until you open it.  But at
least it will get to all the users, no matter who sent it.*

This fix is on its way.  I just haven't been able to get a firm date for its
arrival from the folks who are supposed to install it on the server.

In the meantime, I'm suggesting that AOL, AT&T, Yahoo, and possibly
Microsoft Mail users switch to digest mode.  That does essentially the same
thing the update does, except that it bundles multiple messages into the
"package" instead of just one.

*One important thing to realize is that the current problem affects only
people on Yahoo/AT&T, AOL, and (maybe) Microsoft Mail (this last isn't clear
to me yet).  This means that 80-85% of EVDL users are NOT affected AT ALL.

Also, Yahoo/AT&T/AOL/MS users will receive EVDL messages from you and me and
other folks who DO NOT use Yahoo/AT&T/AOL/MS mail.  We will get the messages
they send.  No sweat there.

However, until the list software update lands, messages sent to the EVDL
from Yahoo/AT&T/AOL/MS peole will NOT reach other Yahoo/AT&T/AOL/MS folks -
unless they are using digest mode.

I hope that makes some sense.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EV professor
OK, I am glad you and the administration are on top of it.. Looking forward
to the change, before G-Mail messes our list message distribution up, as
AOL has promised G-Mail will...

*Dennis Lee Miles *

*Director   **E.V.T.I. Inc.*

*E-Mail:*  *[hidden email]* <[hidden email]>

   *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913*

Dade City, Florida 33523

 USA




On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 4:27 AM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2 May 2014 at 2:51, Dennis Miles wrote:
>
> > It seems the major AOL gripe is using an alias for a return (FROM)
> > address Cannot we use the true "FROM" and place a comment in the e-mail
> > to direct all replies to the "EVDL.com" , or whatever is appropriate
> > ???
>
> Well, that's sort of what the updated list sotware will do.
>
> RIght now, when you send a post to the list, it sends it on to Yahoo, AOL,
> Gmail, Roadrunner, and so on.  When it arrives at the destination server it
> says, "Hi, I'm from Dennis Miles.  I know it looks like I come from the
> EVDL, but I'm really from Dennis.  Trust me."
>
> In the new version, the message will tell Yahoo and the other guys, "Hi,
> I'm
> from the EVDL.  I have a message here from Dennis Miles."
>
> This change makes Yahoo (and AOL) happy again.  The only downside I know of
> is that some (many?) emali systems will show this in their message list as
> FROM the EVDL, with no indication of who wrote it until you open it.  But
> at
> least it will get to all the users, no matter who sent it.*
>
> This fix is on its way.  I just haven't been able to get a firm date for
> its
> arrival from the folks who are supposed to install it on the server.
>
> In the meantime, I'm suggesting that AOL, AT&T, Yahoo, and possibly
> Microsoft Mail users switch to digest mode.  That does essentially the same
> thing the update does, except that it bundles multiple messages into the
> "package" instead of just one.
>
> *One important thing to realize is that the current problem affects only
> people on Yahoo/AT&T, AOL, and (maybe) Microsoft Mail (this last isn't
> clear
> to me yet).  This means that 80-85% of EVDL users are NOT affected AT ALL.
>
> Also, Yahoo/AT&T/AOL/MS users will receive EVDL messages from you and me
> and
> other folks who DO NOT use Yahoo/AT&T/AOL/MS mail.  We will get the
> messages
> they send.  No sweat there.
>
> However, until the list software update lands, messages sent to the EVDL
> from Yahoo/AT&T/AOL/MS peole will NOT reach other Yahoo/AT&T/AOL/MS folks -
> unless they are using digest mode.
>
> I hope that makes some sense.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by David Chapman-9
On 2 May 2014 at 0:43, David Chapman wrote:

>  I cannot seem to retrieve my password using the method you suggest.

Let me check this .....

Hmm, it does appear that Yahoo is blocking confirmation and password
messages from the listserver.  I'll try to find out why, and how to fix it.

Until I can, I guess we'll have to do this the hard way.  David, I set your
account to digest mode manually.  Other folks who want me to do the same -
email me OFF LIST at the address shown here :

http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

And specify that you want your account switched to digest mode.

Or else dump your Yahoo / AT&T / AOL account and get something saner.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

Darryl McMahon
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
Just to lend my support to David's stance re: keeping EVDL as an e-mail
distribution service, and staying away from the web forum format.  EVDL
has been working for a long time this way, while forums have come and
gone.  EVDL is not the only example of this in my experience.

I also appreciated David's recent post on e-mail options - it made for
good reading.

I would also like to take this opportunity to say a big thank you to
David for his work (and from some personal experience, I know it is
work) keeping the EVDL humming and civilized.  As a result, the EVDL is
a phenomenal resource, drawing on the knowledge and talent of some truly
amazing people.

Darryl McMahon

On 02/05/2014 4:55 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 01 May 2014 23:51:49 -0400
> From: "EVDL Administrator"<[hidden email]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users
> Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On 1 May 2014 at 22:40, Dennis Miles wrote:
>
>> >Perhaps we should convert to the system "DYI Electric Car" uses and
>> >check in occassionally on the conversations instead of having the
>> >torrents of E-Mails we are accustomed to. Changing with the times, so
>> >to speak.
> This is a discussion we've had countless times over the years.  It's been a
> while, so I suppose we're going to have to go over it again.;-)
>
> Though I'm not a regular at DIY, as far as I can tell, they do the webforum
> thing pretty well.   What would an EVDL webforum have to offer over that?
> What would prompt people to give some of their valuable time to us, when
> there's already an ongoing and effective resource of the same type?
>
> An EVDL webforum would probably be ad-free and noncommercial.  However, my
> perception is that while that matters to me and a few other people, most
> folks just block the ads.  Some block them with browser plugins; others
> block them in their minds, or at least they think they do.
>
> We'd certainly be more for privacy.  We wouldn't track our users or sell
> their preference data (I don't know for sure that DIY does this, but most ad-
> supported sites do; just view the page source to see all the calls to third-
> party URLs).  Again, though, I think that matters to only a small number of
> people.
>
> IMO, the fact that the EVDL uses email is its main advantage.  Maybe I'm not
> typical, but I have logins on several webforums for my other interests.  I
> find one that's interesting, sign up, read it for a while, contribute here
> and there - and then get busy and drift away.  I have links for lots of them
> in my browser's bookmarks toolbar, but I still don't visit most daily, or
> even weekly.
>
> I read EVDL mail every day, simply because it's there when I open my mail.
> But would I visit it on a webforum daily?  Doubtful.  Would you?  Really?
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator

--
Darryl McMahon
Author, The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

Willie2
On 05/02/2014 07:05 AM, Darryl McMahon wrote:
> Just to lend my support to David's stance re: keeping EVDL as an
> e-mail distribution service, and staying away from the web forum
> format. EVDL has been working for a long time this way, while forums
> have come and gone.  EVDL is not the only example of this in my
> experience.
>
Agree.

Not only do I personally prefer maillists, but there is quite a history,
not be be abandoned, behind EVDL.  Though I am a relative newcomer.  
EVDL has some famous and not so famous graduates.  I was surprised when
I learned a few years ago that Mary Ann Chapman is an alum.  Also, the
Tesla battery guy, J. B. Straubel.  Bob Rice as well as all the current
notables.  Someone should write a history of EVDL and the significant
participants.

I've used DIYEV but haven't gone there in many months.  There are plenty
of good folks there but it is more tedious to use than I would like.
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

Willie2
In reply to this post by Darryl McMahon
I can offer free privately hosted email addresses to a few.  Either
austinfarm.org or austinfarm.net.  I can make no commitment on
longevity, but austinfarm.org has been up and functional for about 20 years.
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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

Peri Hartman
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
A few more thoughts on email distribution vs thread based forums.

Who is the audience?  I think (but can really only speak for myself) that
most members of EVDL prefer to be aware of all threads active on EVDL.
While you (or I) may not read all posts on a thread, at least you know a
discussion occurred and, maybe, who provided substantial information.  This
is a different sort of user from those who want info on specific topics and
will search for those topics rather than monitor a stream of topics.  With
that in mind:

PROS of an email distribution list:
- all posts show up "in your face"
- you know who the poster is (not a generic "new EVDL post" message).
- it's easy to save posts that you are interested in
- it's easy to filter and categorize posts in your own way (as opposed to an
organization imposed by a thread based forum).

PROS of a thread based forum:
- searching is easy (assuming it's a well written forum; searching isn't
possible on a email list, though EVDL has a search-based database as well).
- keeping clutter out of your email
- possible to handle large data items (e.g. photos, pdfs) without
replicating that data to each user through email.

I'm sure there are more pros and cons.  

What might work is a blend of the two. I've seen various forums that try to
do this.  But, as others have pointed out, they lack one or another
"requirement" of EVDL, such as knowing who the poster is.  I'm wondering if,
for example, Word Press can be configured to put the poster in the subject
line.  I think it meets all the other requirements, although it has some
annoying "features" too.  For that matter, can EVDL be modified to do so?
Maybe that would solve the spam filter problem.

Peri


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of EVDL Administrator
Sent: 01 May, 2014 8:52 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

On 1 May 2014 at 22:40, Dennis Miles wrote:

> Perhaps we should convert to the system "DYI Electric Car" uses and
> check in occassionally on the conversations instead of having the
> torrents of E-Mails we are accustomed to. Changing with the times, so
> to speak.

This is a discussion we've had countless times over the years.  It's been a
while, so I suppose we're going to have to go over it again.  ;-)

Though I'm not a regular at DIY, as far as I can tell, they do the webforum
thing pretty well.   What would an EVDL webforum have to offer over that?
What would prompt people to give some of their valuable time to us, when
there's already an ongoing and effective resource of the same type?  

An EVDL webforum would probably be ad-free and noncommercial.  However, my
perception is that while that matters to me and a few other people, most
folks just block the ads.  Some block them with browser plugins; others
block them in their minds, or at least they think they do.

We'd certainly be more for privacy.  We wouldn't track our users or sell
their preference data (I don't know for sure that DIY does this, but most
ad-
supported sites do; just view the page source to see all the calls to third-
party URLs).  Again, though, I think that matters to only a small number of
people.

IMO, the fact that the EVDL uses email is its main advantage.  Maybe I'm not

typical, but I have logins on several webforums for my other interests.  I
find one that's interesting, sign up, read it for a while, contribute here
and there - and then get busy and drift away.  I have links for lots of them

in my browser's bookmarks toolbar, but I still don't visit most daily, or
even weekly.

I read EVDL mail every day, simply because it's there when I open my mail.  
But would I visit it on a webforum daily?  Doubtful.  Would you?  Really?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EVDL Administrator
On 2 May 2014 at 7:26, Peri Hartman wrote:

> What might work is a blend of the two [email discussion list and
> webforum). I've seen various forums that try to do this.  

That's what EVDL has tried to do with the Nabble front end.  

I was looking for a new archive just as Nabble was getting started.  Since
one of the recurring themes here for at least a decade has been "why don't
you convert to a webforum - that's the modern way," having an archive that
also could be a "front end" to make the EVDL look like a webforum seemed
like a good idea.  So even though they were untested, I took a chance with
them.  (Not really much of a chance, since I don't pay anything for the
account.)

Nabble's a bit clunky, and you still have to have an EVDL account (though
Nabble makes the signup process a little easier, IMO).  It also requires
javascript and third-party browser cookies, and has ads, none of which I'm
happy about. But some folks use it as their exclusive connection to the EVDL
and seem to find it OK.  


> I'm wondering if, for example, Word Press can be configured to put the
> poster in the subject line.  I think it meets all the other
> requirements, although it has some annoying "features" too.  

I use WP as a CMS for one "newsy" website that I run.  It does OK, though I
find I often have to write bare markup anyway, to make the pages look the
way I want them to.  

OTOH, I'm not sure I see how blogging software would make a particularly
good webforum.  Maybe I'm missing something.

From what I've seen, there are plenty of good webforum managers, many FOSS.  
If we really wanted to go that way, we'd have lots of choices that were
actually intended for the purpose.  But I don't see that happening.

> For that matter, can EVDL be modified to do so? Maybe that would solve
> the spam filter problem.

I wish.  Regrettably, as it's set up now, I don't have access to the server
source or raw configuration files.  To get there I'd have to pay for
dedicated or semi-dedicated hosting, and that's WAY out of the budget.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
On 2 May 2014 at 5:30, EVDL Administrator wrote:

> Hmm, it does appear that Yahoo is blocking confirmation and password
> messages from the listserver.  I'll try to find out why, and how to fix it.

I did finally receive the password reminder I requested on my Yahoo test
account.  I have no idea why it was delayed for many hours, but it did come
through.

My offer stands, though.  Any Yahoo, AT&T, or AOL EVDL user who wants to be
switched to digest mode and has trouble making it work should contact me at
the address here

http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

and I'll switch you to digest manually.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Re: EVDL problems for Yahoo, AT&T, AOL users

EV professor
I am unaware at this time whether the E-Mail situation need concern me or
not. I use about 12 E-Mail accounts . three are on G-Mail, AOL, and
Mail.com and I have been using them sinse before 2008. The Gmail.com and
Mail.com readers both invite you to forward messages on your other E-Mail
accounts to them to read. I have 6 E-Mail accounts on each of GMail.com and
Mail.com , so I only have to visit two domains to read all my  E-Mail
messages from 12 different E-Mail addresses.Eight of my e-mail accounts are
on my domains which host my various web sites (All are demonstrations of my
support for Electric Vehicles and EV Tech Training) (See:  WWW.EVTI.ORG  as
an example.)     ;^)     I used "Nabble" for a couple years but I found I
was only visiting it once a week and I got lost because it doesn't sort
like G-Mail which is my favorite bur both Gmail and  Mail.com let me send
e-mails out with the "From" being the e-mail address I choose of any I
have...

*Dennis Lee Miles *

*Founder:*
  *E.V.T.I. Inc.*

*E-Mail:*  *[hidden email]* <[hidden email]>

   *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913*

Dade City, Florida 33523

 USA




On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:30 PM, EVDL Administrator <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2 May 2014 at 5:30, EVDL Administrator wrote:
>
> > Hmm, it does appear that Yahoo is blocking confirmation and password
> > messages from the listserver.  I'll try to find out why, and how to fix
> it.
>
> I did finally receive the password reminder I requested on my Yahoo test
> account.  I have no idea why it was delayed for many hours, but it did come
> through.
>
> My offer stands, though.  Any Yahoo, AT&T, or AOL EVDL user who wants to be
> switched to digest mode and has trouble making it work should contact me at
> the address here
>
> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> and I'll switch you to digest manually.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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