EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

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EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

brucedp5

[unformatted]
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-ford-focus-electric-instrumented-test-review
[image] 2012 Ford Focus Electric
Electrified, if not quite electrifying.
BY TONY QUIROGA  PHOTOGRAPHY BY ROBERT KERIAN  Aug 2012

Building an electric car from scratch has one major advantage: A clean-sheet design makes it easier to hide a large battery pack. But aside from optimizing the location of ?the heaviest part of the car, purpose-built electrics haven’t exactly been electrifying to drive. From the General Motors EV1 to the Nissan Leaf, electric cars designed from the jump to be electrics drive like fridges. And not even the cool stainless-steel and glass-doored kind. To make an electric car fun, we advise starting with a great gasoline-powered car and converting it to run on electricity. Tesla did just that with the Lotus Elise, which resulted in its sporty Roadster. Now Ford has taken one of our favorite five-door hatchbacks—the 10Best-winning Focus—and converted it to run on amps instead of gas.

Ford aims this vehicle directly at the purpose-built Leaf. We immediately noticed that the electric Focus acts a lot like any other Focus. You get the regular car’s solid chassis, refined manners, precise steering, and playful character. The Leaf is a lot less involving and gratifying to drive; it’s more simulation than stimulation. Score one for the converted car.

That said, the electric Focus is no stoplight king. A 141-hp AC motor sits between the front wheels and offers 188 pound-feet of torque at all times. The motor works against 3612 pounds of mass through a single-speed transaxle. Acceleration has the slow grace of a Lincoln Town Car. We clocked a 0-to-60-mph time of 10.3 seconds, a few tenths off the less powerful, nearly 235-pound-lighter Leaf. Remember 85-mph speedometers? The electric Focus could barely peg one; top speed is reported to be governed at 84 mph, but we managed 85 with our test vehicle. The Focus Electric covers a quarter-mile in 17.9 seconds, reaching 80 mph at that same time.

One interesting result of our evaluation was the discovery that the battery-operated Focus has a slight rearward weight bias—51 percent of the poundage sits over the undriven axle. That's due to the battery placement, which also lowers the center of gravity by about an inch compared to a gas Focus and contributes to this version's handling aptitude. (The Electric weighs 550-ish pounds more than a comparable conventional Focus hatch.) Roadholding is slightly lower than the numbers we've gotten from the Leaf —0.74 g versus the Nissan's best of 0.79. And braking is limited by the low-rolling-resistance tires, resulting in a long, 195-foot stop from 70 mph.
Aston Martin–like grille, a plug in the front fender, and an eerie silence are this electric’s dead giveaways.

Like most alternative-powertrain cars, this EV has a number of information displays that goad drivers into extracting the most mileage from the battery’s electrons. Our favorite is the braking coach that displays what percentage of every stop’s kinetic energy makes its way back into the batteries. In lieu of speed, you can entertain yourself?by trying to maximize your efficiency.

According to EPA tests, the Ford EV has a range of 76 miles on a single charge; on the same test, the Leaf scores 73. The Focus is slightly more efficient than the Leaf and returns a combined mileage number of 105 MPGe (miles per gallon equivalent) compared with the Leaf’s 99. That means the electric Focus can travel 100 miles for about 25 cents less than the Leaf. We saw 94 MPGe in our short test, and managed an 83-mile range on a trip that was roughly half city and half highway driving.

Another advantage for the Ford is that recharging the Focus’s 23-kWh lithium-ion battery from empty takes three to four hours on 240-volt power, or nearly half the time required for the Leaf (although we hear that Nissan will be upgrading the car's onboard charger for quicker refills soon). On 120 volts, a full charge of the Ford takes about 20 hours. Ford credits the battery’s highly effective cooling system for this. Unlike what Nissan offers for the Leaf, Ford isn’t making available a quick-charge 440-volt plug on the Focus, but there is less need for one.

A major disadvantage of the electric Focus is that its battery pack takes up a lot of space. Since this car wasn’t designed as an EV, the pack sits inside, under and behind the rear seat, like a giant suitcase you can’t remove. Say goodbye to hatchback practicality; there’s barely enough room back there for a set of golf clubs. Conversely, Nissan packages the Leaf’s battery under the floor, out of sight and out of the way. We grudgingly grant one point to the purpose-built EV.

For the foreseeable future, Ford’s EV?will be somewhat rare. California, New Jersey, and New York get them first. By the end of the year, Ford will add 16 more markets; and by the middle of 2013, the electric Focus should be available nationwide.

Without taking tax incentives into account, the Focus starts at $39,995, and it comes nearly loaded, with MyFord Touch, a navigation system, and a Sony-branded ­stereo. The only available options are metallic paint ($395 or $495), leather-trimmed seats ($995), and the 32-amp, 240-volt home charger ($1499 installed). The electric Focus costs a couple grand more than a similarly well-equipped Leaf SL, at $38,100, but not only does the Ford replenish its battery faster, it is also not a fridge. View Photo Gallery


Highs and Lows >
Highs:
Drives as well as a regular Focus, entertaining eco screens, quick charge time.

Lows:
EV range issues, EV pricing, 85-mph speed limit.
Ford Focus Research>

Specifications >
VEHICLE TYPE: front-motor, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 5-door hatchback

PRICE AS TESTED: $40,390 (base price: $39,995)

MOTOR TYPE: AC permanent magnet synchronous, 141 hp, 188 lb-ft

TRANSMISSION: 1-speed direct drive

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 104.3 in
Length: 172.9 in
Width: 71.8 in Height: 58.2 in
Curb weight: 3612 lb

PERFORMANCE:
Zero to 60 mph: 10.3 sec
Zero to 80 mph: 17.9 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 10.1 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.9 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 6.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 17.9 sec at 80 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 85 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 195 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.74 g

FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway: 110/99 MPGe
C/D observed: 94 MPGe
[© 2012 Hearst Communications  All Rights Reserved]




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{brucedp.150m.com}
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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

gottdi
it is also not a fridge
Well I guess they didn't put the Leaf to a real test. It handles better than any other vehicle I have ever owned and hardy consider it a Fridge. It's not a race car but It's faster and quicker than the Focus and has a real good low center of gravity for excellent cornering. It feels well balanced.

Pete :)
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still build one too.
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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-builtadvantages

Peri Hartman
Me, too.  I've never driven a Lotus (or a Tesla), but in spite of all my
gripes with the Leaf, it certainly seems to handle well and is fun to drive!

Peri

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of gottdi
Sent: 03 August, 2012 6:30 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's
not-purpose-builtadvantages



> it is also not a fridge
>

Well I guess they didn't put the Leaf to a real test. It handles better than
any other vehicle I have ever owned and hardy consider it a Fridge. It's not
a race car but It's faster and quicker than the Focus and has a real good
low center of gravity for excellent cornering. It feels well balanced.

Pete :)



-----
http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the shelf. You can still
build one too.
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2012-Ford-
Focus-Electric-s-not-purpose-built-advantages-tp4656949p4656951.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

anthony c
In reply to this post by gottdi
This article is a joke...the EV-1 NOT a good ev?  Was this person paying attention?  200 MPC based on the EPA!  Lowest Co of drag of any vehicle...and if Tesla was serious about a non-purpose built...why is Model S an EV from the ground up?

I love my 2000 Ford Ranger EV NiMH...but wish Ford didn't leave the gasoline door on it.

A

--- On Fri, 8/3/12, gottdi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: gottdi <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 9:29 AM
>
>
> > it is also not a fridge
> >
>
> Well I guess they didn't put the Leaf to a real test. It
> handles better than
> any other vehicle I have ever owned and hardy consider it a
> Fridge. It's not
> a race car but It's faster and quicker than the Focus and
> has a real good
> low center of gravity for excellent cornering. It feels well
> balanced.
>
> Pete :)
>
>
>
> -----
> http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
> No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the
> shelf. You can still build one too.
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2012-Ford-Focus-Electric-s-not-purpose-built-advantages-tp4656949p4656951.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
> archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email]
> only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

Dave Davidson-3
I had a chance to test drive a Focus EV today. It was a nice driving
car, very quiet with no noise maker, and larger than I expected.
However, it seems Ford went to great lengths to make it feel like a
gas car.  It feels more like a gas car than my Leaf.  Of course part
of it may be because it shares underpinnings with the gas Focus. I had
plenty of leg room, but had the seat pushed all the way back, so no
one could sit behind me.  In my Leaf, there is more rear seat room and
people can ride behind me.  There is not as much trunk room as the
Leaf, but there should be enough. Acceleration seemed on par with my
Leaf.  Regen is very light, perhaps lighter than the Leaf, and the
Leaf's regen is too light for my liking.

The Focus seems designed to directly compete with the Leaf.  I
personally prefer the Leaf, but that may be because I'm familiar with
it. My opinion is that the Focus is a well built, fun to drive EV.
However, price wise, the Leaf seems a better car for the money.  If
Ford could sell the Focus EV for $5000 less than the Leaf, they would
have a winner. It will be interesting to see how things pan out once
it is widely available.

Dave


On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 8:03 PM, anthony c <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This article is a joke...the EV-1 NOT a good ev?  Was this person paying attention?  200 MPC based on the EPA!  Lowest Co of drag of any vehicle...and if Tesla was serious about a non-purpose built...why is Model S an EV from the ground up?
>
> I love my 2000 Ford Ranger EV NiMH...but wish Ford didn't leave the gasoline door on it.
>
> A
>
> --- On Fri, 8/3/12, gottdi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: gottdi <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Friday, August 3, 2012, 9:29 AM
>>
>>
>> > it is also not a fridge
>> >
>>
>> Well I guess they didn't put the Leaf to a real test. It
>> handles better than
>> any other vehicle I have ever owned and hardy consider it a
>> Fridge. It's not
>> a race car but It's faster and quicker than the Focus and
>> has a real good
>> low center of gravity for excellent cornering. It feels well
>> balanced.
>>
>> Pete :)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> http://onegreenev.blogspot.com/
>> No need to wait any longer. You can now buy one off the
>> shelf. You can still build one too.
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2012-Ford-Focus-Electric-s-not-purpose-built-advantages-tp4656949p4656951.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
>> archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
>> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
>> |
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email]
>> only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

brucedp5
This post was updated on .
Thanks Dave for checking the Focus Electric out, and posting your review.

I am happy you mentioned the Focus Electric has more leg room. When I sat in the ice version's driver seat I had a little more room than the Leaf. I am surprised that you felt that with both the Leaf and Focus driver's seats all the way back, the Leaf had more passenger leg room directly behind the driver.

The very informed and helpful Ford Rep. at a Santa Clara, CA dealership did not mention a mode ability for the Focus Electric that I believe the Leaf has (Normal and Eco/longer-range). This is a huge negative in my book.

I would like to see at least four modes: performance, normal, eco/long-range, and user-definable (amount of regen, acceleration, top-speed, etc.). I would rarely only use performance for short trips to show off, and likely would normally drive in either eco/long-range or my user-defined mode (perhaps a more aggressive regen than eco for driving the twisty-turny roads in the Santa Cruz mountains, etc.).

Even if as you suggested, the Focus Electric's price were lower at a more competitive purchase price, there still are the inefficiencies of the Focus' converted ice design to Electric causing the Focus Electric's range to be less than the Leaf (IMO with the same conditions following each other on the same highway, the Focus will have less range).

The Focus Electric's 23kWh pack and the Leaf's 24kWh pack are close in capacity, so their pack cost should be about the same. To make the Focus Electric range competitive with the Leaf, Ford or an approved OEM could offer a pack upgrade to bump it up to ~30kWh.

And lastly, the Focus does not have a Level-3 ability. That is another item either Ford or an approved OEM could offer. The amount of Leaf EV driver usage of the L3 in my area shows me, it is an item that needs to be part of the purchase decision.

BTW, there is a small flurry of negative newswire items touting Ford Electric is not selling well, with the same previous fervor that the conservative paid media made when they attacked the Volt pih. At the same time, I already posted about how Ford, like GM, is more inclined to sell pih than EVs.

That last bit is something we will have to keep our eye on. If the only reason major automakers (Nissan excepted) are selling plug-in vehicles are for the California CARB credits, and several pih sold will garner as many CARB credits as when an Electric sold, automakers are not going to putting much effort into selling EVs, and then later, like GM did, tell CARB no one wanted them.

Ford's pih adverti$ing far out promotes there Electric efforts. It has me thinking everyone on Ford's Electric team is GO, except their upper management's marketing department. Any wonder why Ford's EV sales are not outstanding?

IMO Though I like the Focus Electric's looks, its 6kW charging ability, and the skosh more leg/wiggle room, the Focus Electric's:
- higher price,
- less range, and
- no level-3 ability
does not position the Focus Electric well enough to be considered competing with the Leaf EV. An informed buyer will see that the Leaf EV is (at this point in time) a better deal for them.

EVDL member's comments, corrections, views/opinions welcome :-)


{brucedp.150m.com}




On Sat, Aug 4, 2012, at 04:22 PM, Dave Davidson wrote:
> I had a chance to test drive a Focus EV today. It was a nice driving
> car, very quiet with no noise maker, and larger than I expected.
> However, it seems Ford went to great lengths to make it feel like a
> gas car.  It feels more like a gas car than my Leaf.  Of course part
> of it may be because it shares underpinnings with the gas Focus. I had
> plenty of leg room, but had the seat pushed all the way back, so no
> one could sit behind me.  In my Leaf, there is more rear seat room and
> people can ride behind me.  There is not as much trunk room as the
> Leaf, but there should be enough. Acceleration seemed on par with my
> Leaf.  Regen is very light, perhaps lighter than the Leaf, and the
> Leaf's regen is too light for my liking.
>
> The Focus seems designed to directly compete with the Leaf.  I
> personally prefer the Leaf, but that may be because I'm familiar with
> it. My opinion is that the Focus is a well built, fun to drive EV.
> However, price wise, the Leaf seems a better car for the money.  If
> Ford could sell the Focus EV for $5000 less than the Leaf, they would
> have a winner. It will be interesting to see how things pan out once
> it is widely available.
>
> Dave
-
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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-builtadvantages

Cor van de Water
I used to have a colleague who was at least 7' tall
(and his hobby was competition flying in glider planes, go figure)
so he always had a custom made (I believe Recaro brand) car seat
but with that, he could ride most standard cars - just change the
seat out. I noticed also on my Daewoo Matiz that the driver seat
does not go back very far - I can drive it without my knees
hitting the dash or steering column, but there is not much
space left. In the back however there is an amazing amount of
space for such a small car - even if I shift my seat max back,
still a normal person has enough leg room to sit behind me.
For taller drivers (I am 6'3") the easiest solution would be to
install longer rails for the seat, which would then reduce
the leg room of the passenger behind the driver...

My point is that if you want to drive a specific car and
find that you do not fit lengthwise, then there are
relatively simple solutions by fitting a different seat.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of brucedp5
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 6:33 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's
not-purpose-builtadvantages


Thanks Dave for checking the Focus Electric out, and posting your
review.

I am happy you mentioned the Focus Electric has more leg room. When I
sat in the ice version's driver seat I had a little more room than the
Leaf. I am surprised that you felt that with both the Leaf and Focus
driver's seats all the way back, the Leaf had more passenger leg room
directly behind the driver.

The very informed and helpful Ford Rep. at a Santa Clara, CA dealership
did not mention a mode ability for the Focus Electric that I believe the
Leaf has (Normal and Eco/longer-range). This is a huge negative in my
book.

I would like to see at least four modes: performance, normal,
eco/long-range, and user-definable (amount of regen, acceleration,
top-speed, etc.). I would rarely only use performance for short trips to
show off, and likely would normally drive in either eco/long-range or my
user-defined mode (perhaps a more aggressive regen than eco for driving
the twisty-turny roads in the Santa Cruz mountains, etc.).

Even if as you suggested, the Focus Electric's price were lower at a
more competitive purchase price, the inefficiencies of the Focus'
converted ice design to Electric mean the Focus Electric's range is less
than the Leaf (IMO with the same conditions following each other on the
same highway, the Focus will have less range).

The Focus Electric's 23kWh pack and the Leaf's 24kWh pack are close in
capacity, so their pack cost should be about the same. To make the Focus
Electric range competitive with the Leaf, Ford or an approved OEM could
offer a pack upgrade to bump it up to ~30kWh.

And lastly, the Focus does not have a Level-3 ability. That is another
item either Ford or an approved OEM could offer. The amount of Leaf EV
driver usage of the L3 in my area shows me, it is an item that needs to
be part of the purchase decision.

BTW, there is a small flurry of negative newswire items touting Ford
Electric is not selling well, with the same previous fervor that the
conservative paid media made when they attacked the Volt pih. At the
same time, I already posted about how Ford, like GM, is more inclined to
sell pih than EVs.

That last bit is something we will have to keep our eye on. If the only
reason major automakers (Nissan excepted) are selling plug-in vehicles
are for the California CARB credits, and several pih sold will garner as
many CARB credits as an Electric sold, automakers are not going to
putting much effort into selling EVs, and then later, like GM did, tell
CARB no one wanted them.

Ford's pih adverti$ing far out promotes there Electric efforts. It has
me thinking everyone on Ford's Electric team is GO, except their upper
management's marketing Department. Any wonder why Ford's EV sales are
not outstanding.

IMO Though I like the Focus Electric's looks, and the skosh more
leg/wiggle room, the Focus Electric's:
- higher price,
- less range,
- no level-3 ability, and
- no driving modes
does not position the Focus Electric well enough to be considered
competing with the Leaf EV. An informed EV buyer see that the Leaf is a
better deal.

EVDL member's comments, corrections, views/opinions welcome :-)


{brucedp.150m.com}




On Sat, Aug 4, 2012, at 04:22 PM, Dave Davidson wrote:
> I had a chance to test drive a Focus EV today. It was a nice driving
> car, very quiet with no noise maker, and larger than I expected.
> However, it seems Ford went to great lengths to make it feel like a
> gas car.  It feels more like a gas car than my Leaf.  Of course part
> of it may be because it shares underpinnings with the gas Focus. I had

> plenty of leg room, but had the seat pushed all the way back, so no
> one could sit behind me.  In my Leaf, there is more rear seat room and

> people can ride behind me.  There is not as much trunk room as the
> Leaf, but there should be enough. Acceleration seemed on par with my
> Leaf.  Regen is very light, perhaps lighter than the Leaf, and the
> Leaf's regen is too light for my liking.
>
> The Focus seems designed to directly compete with the Leaf.  I
> personally prefer the Leaf, but that may be because I'm familiar with
> it. My opinion is that the Focus is a well built, fun to drive EV.
> However, price wise, the Leaf seems a better car for the money.  If
> Ford could sell the Focus EV for $5000 less than the Leaf, they would
> have a winner. It will be interesting to see how things pan out once
> it is widely available.
>
> Dave
-



--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2012-F
ord-Focus-Electric-s-not-purpose-built-advantages-tp4656949p4656970.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

Dave Davidson-3
In reply to this post by brucedp5
Bruce,

Ford does have 2 driving modes like the Leaf. Their selector looks like the
ICE and is labeled P R N D L. L is the equivalent of Eco in the Leaf.

Ford has said they will support the SAE quick charge standard when
finalized. We'll see. The Focus is not yet available here. The one we got
to drive had Michigan manufacturer's plates on it. I believe the Ford rep
was out of New Jersey and mentioned that they had people coming in from
other areas to get them.

She didn't know when they were going to be available here but I would
assume soon as I believe it was being taken around to show the dealerships.
She works in marketing and graciously brought it out to our meetup at FedEx
Field (which also has a 2 megawatt solar array and 10 level 2 charging
stations).

Dave
On Aug 4, 2012 9:33 PM, "brucedp5" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Thanks Dave for checking the Focus Electric out, and posting your review.
>
> I am happy you mentioned the Focus Electric has more leg room. When I sat
> in
> the ice version's driver seat I had a little more room than the Leaf. I am
> surprised that you felt that with both the Leaf and Focus driver's seats
> all
> the way back, the Leaf had more passenger leg room directly behind the
> driver.
>
> The very informed and helpful Ford Rep. at a Santa Clara, CA dealership did
> not mention a mode ability for the Focus Electric that I believe the Leaf
> has (Normal and Eco/longer-range). This is a huge negative in my book.
>
> I would like to see at least four modes: performance, normal,
> eco/long-range, and user-definable (amount of regen, acceleration,
> top-speed, etc.). I would rarely only use performance for short trips to
> show off, and likely would normally drive in either eco/long-range or my
> user-defined mode (perhaps a more aggressive regen than eco for driving the
> twisty-turny roads in the Santa Cruz mountains, etc.).
>
> Even if as you suggested, the Focus Electric's price were lower at a more
> competitive purchase price, the inefficiencies of the Focus' converted ice
> design to Electric mean the Focus Electric's range is less than the Leaf
> (IMO with the same conditions following each other on the same highway, the
> Focus will have less range).
>
> The Focus Electric's 23kWh pack and the Leaf's 24kWh pack are close in
> capacity, so their pack cost should be about the same. To make the Focus
> Electric range competitive with the Leaf, Ford or an approved OEM could
> offer a pack upgrade to bump it up to ~30kWh.
>
> And lastly, the Focus does not have a Level-3 ability. That is another item
> either Ford or an approved OEM could offer. The amount of Leaf EV driver
> usage of the L3 in my area shows me, it is an item that needs to be part of
> the purchase decision.
>
> BTW, there is a small flurry of negative newswire items touting Ford
> Electric is not selling well, with the same previous fervor that the
> conservative paid media made when they attacked the Volt pih. At the same
> time, I already posted about how Ford, like GM, is more inclined to sell
> pih
> than EVs.
>
> That last bit is something we will have to keep our eye on. If the only
> reason major automakers (Nissan excepted) are selling plug-in vehicles are
> for the California CARB credits, and several pih sold will garner as many
> CARB credits as an Electric sold, automakers are not going to putting much
> effort into selling EVs, and then later, like GM did, tell CARB no one
> wanted them.
>
> Ford's pih adverti$ing far out promotes there Electric efforts. It has me
> thinking everyone on Ford's Electric team is GO, except their upper
> management's marketing Department. Any wonder why Ford's EV sales are not
> outstanding.
>
> IMO Though I like the Focus Electric's looks, and the skosh more leg/wiggle
> room, the Focus Electric's:
> - higher price,
> - less range,
> - no level-3 ability, and
> - no driving modes
> does not position the Focus Electric well enough to be considered competing
> with the Leaf EV. An informed EV buyer see that the Leaf is a better deal.
>
> EVDL member's comments, corrections, views/opinions welcome :-)
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 4, 2012, at 04:22 PM, Dave Davidson wrote:
> > I had a chance to test drive a Focus EV today. It was a nice driving
> > car, very quiet with no noise maker, and larger than I expected.
> > However, it seems Ford went to great lengths to make it feel like a
> > gas car.  It feels more like a gas car than my Leaf.  Of course part
> > of it may be because it shares underpinnings with the gas Focus. I had
> > plenty of leg room, but had the seat pushed all the way back, so no
> > one could sit behind me.  In my Leaf, there is more rear seat room and
> > people can ride behind me.  There is not as much trunk room as the
> > Leaf, but there should be enough. Acceleration seemed on par with my
> > Leaf.  Regen is very light, perhaps lighter than the Leaf, and the
> > Leaf's regen is too light for my liking.
> >
> > The Focus seems designed to directly compete with the Leaf.  I
> > personally prefer the Leaf, but that may be because I'm familiar with
> > it. My opinion is that the Focus is a well built, fun to drive EV.
> > However, price wise, the Leaf seems a better car for the money.  If
> > Ford could sell the Focus EV for $5000 less than the Leaf, they would
> > have a winner. It will be interesting to see how things pan out once
> > it is widely available.
> >
> > Dave
> -
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2012-Ford-Focus-Electric-s-not-purpose-built-advantages-tp4656949p4656970.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

anthony c
Amusing, I've heard zero of the incredible Ballard/Ecostar transaxle/3 phase ACs from the 1999-2001 Ranger EV is incorporated in the Focus...they love to reinvent the wheel....before the public even understands the wheel.


--- On Sun, 8/5/12, Dave Davidson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Dave Davidson <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sunday, August 5, 2012, 8:42 PM
> Bruce,
>
> Ford does have 2 driving modes like the Leaf. Their selector
> looks like the
> ICE and is labeled P R N D L. L is the equivalent of Eco in
> the Leaf.
>
> Ford has said they will support the SAE quick charge
> standard when
> finalized. We'll see. The Focus is not yet available here.
> The one we got
> to drive had Michigan manufacturer's plates on it. I believe
> the Ford rep
> was out of New Jersey and mentioned that they had people
> coming in from
> other areas to get them.
>
> She didn't know when they were going to be available here
> but I would
> assume soon as I believe it was being taken around to show
> the dealerships.
> She works in marketing and graciously brought it out to our
> meetup at FedEx
> Field (which also has a 2 megawatt solar array and 10 level
> 2 charging
> stations).
>
> Dave
> On Aug 4, 2012 9:33 PM, "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks Dave for checking the Focus Electric out, and
> posting your review.
> >
> > I am happy you mentioned the Focus Electric has more
> leg room. When I sat
> > in
> > the ice version's driver seat I had a little more room
> than the Leaf. I am
> > surprised that you felt that with both the Leaf and
> Focus driver's seats
> > all
> > the way back, the Leaf had more passenger leg room
> directly behind the
> > driver.
> >
> > The very informed and helpful Ford Rep. at a Santa
> Clara, CA dealership did
> > not mention a mode ability for the Focus Electric that
> I believe the Leaf
> > has (Normal and Eco/longer-range). This is a huge
> negative in my book.
> >
> > I would like to see at least four modes: performance,
> normal,
> > eco/long-range, and user-definable (amount of regen,
> acceleration,
> > top-speed, etc.). I would rarely only use performance
> for short trips to
> > show off, and likely would normally drive in either
> eco/long-range or my
> > user-defined mode (perhaps a more aggressive regen than
> eco for driving the
> > twisty-turny roads in the Santa Cruz mountains, etc.).
> >
> > Even if as you suggested, the Focus Electric's price
> were lower at a more
> > competitive purchase price, the inefficiencies of the
> Focus' converted ice
> > design to Electric mean the Focus Electric's range is
> less than the Leaf
> > (IMO with the same conditions following each other on
> the same highway, the
> > Focus will have less range).
> >
> > The Focus Electric's 23kWh pack and the Leaf's 24kWh
> pack are close in
> > capacity, so their pack cost should be about the same.
> To make the Focus
> > Electric range competitive with the Leaf, Ford or an
> approved OEM could
> > offer a pack upgrade to bump it up to ~30kWh.
> >
> > And lastly, the Focus does not have a Level-3 ability.
> That is another item
> > either Ford or an approved OEM could offer. The amount
> of Leaf EV driver
> > usage of the L3 in my area shows me, it is an item that
> needs to be part of
> > the purchase decision.
> >
> > BTW, there is a small flurry of negative newswire items
> touting Ford
> > Electric is not selling well, with the same previous
> fervor that the
> > conservative paid media made when they attacked the
> Volt pih. At the same
> > time, I already posted about how Ford, like GM, is more
> inclined to sell
> > pih
> > than EVs.
> >
> > That last bit is something we will have to keep our eye
> on. If the only
> > reason major automakers (Nissan excepted) are selling
> plug-in vehicles are
> > for the California CARB credits, and several pih sold
> will garner as many
> > CARB credits as an Electric sold, automakers are not
> going to putting much
> > effort into selling EVs, and then later, like GM did,
> tell CARB no one
> > wanted them.
> >
> > Ford's pih adverti$ing far out promotes there Electric
> efforts. It has me
> > thinking everyone on Ford's Electric team is GO, except
> their upper
> > management's marketing Department. Any wonder why
> Ford's EV sales are not
> > outstanding.
> >
> > IMO Though I like the Focus Electric's looks, and the
> skosh more leg/wiggle
> > room, the Focus Electric's:
> > - higher price,
> > - less range,
> > - no level-3 ability, and
> > - no driving modes
> > does not position the Focus Electric well enough to be
> considered competing
> > with the Leaf EV. An informed EV buyer see that the
> Leaf is a better deal.
> >
> > EVDL member's comments, corrections, views/opinions
> welcome :-)
> >
> >
> > {brucedp.150m.com}
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 4, 2012, at 04:22 PM, Dave Davidson wrote:
> > > I had a chance to test drive a Focus EV today. It
> was a nice driving
> > > car, very quiet with no noise maker, and larger
> than I expected.
> > > However, it seems Ford went to great lengths to
> make it feel like a
> > > gas car.  It feels more like a gas car than
> my Leaf.  Of course part
> > > of it may be because it shares underpinnings with
> the gas Focus. I had
> > > plenty of leg room, but had the seat pushed all
> the way back, so no
> > > one could sit behind me.  In my Leaf, there
> is more rear seat room and
> > > people can ride behind me.  There is not as
> much trunk room as the
> > > Leaf, but there should be enough. Acceleration
> seemed on par with my
> > > Leaf.  Regen is very light, perhaps lighter
> than the Leaf, and the
> > > Leaf's regen is too light for my liking.
> > >
> > > The Focus seems designed to directly compete with
> the Leaf.  I
> > > personally prefer the Leaf, but that may be
> because I'm familiar with
> > > it. My opinion is that the Focus is a well built,
> fun to drive EV.
> > > However, price wise, the Leaf seems a better car
> for the money.  If
> > > Ford could sell the Focus EV for $5000 less than
> the Leaf, they would
> > > have a winner. It will be interesting to see how
> things pan out once
> > > it is widely available.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2012-Ford-Focus-Electric-s-not-purpose-built-advantages-tp4656949p4656970.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing
> list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> > | Please take those discussions elsewhere. 
> Thanks.
> > |
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email]
> only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
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> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email]
> only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>

_______________________________________________
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| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

brucedp5
In reply to this post by Dave Davidson-3
Dave, this is good to know, thanks.
My local Ford dealer rep. just did not know to point that out, and if I
had been sitting in their EV instead of their ice, I would have asked
about it seeing it on the drive selector.

So, the Ford Focus Electric does have a 'normal' and an 'Eco' mode. I
would likely drive around all day in Eco mode, and only use Normal mode
when showing off in EVangel mode. Yea, I am that guy in the right lane
driving 55mph no matter what vehicle I am driving.

 ...
[Ref anthony c 's post]
IMO While the trans axle design Ford used for the Ford Ranger Electric
was interesting, it did have its own inefficiencies that added to the
other factors that reduced the truck's range when at highway speeds. The
Ranger's design was more for sub-highway speed driving anyway as at the
time, Ford's target market back then was for their Electric truck to be
used in parks, forestry, or for low-speed security patrols, etc.

Concerning the Focus Electric, I do not think Ford tried to reinvent the
wheel here, and more likely they were rightly wanting to use current
technology. If I remember preliminary newswires, Ford worked with a
vendor for the motor/controller/drive-train to adapted it for their
integrated use in the Focus ice chassis. I thought I saw that vendor's
name on one of the videos I posted on the Focus Electric (they are in
the evdl archive). It was one of the videos showing the new Focus
production line.


{brucedp.150m.com}



On Sun, Aug 5, 2012, at 05:42 PM, Dave Davidson wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> Ford does have 2 driving modes like the Leaf. Their selector looks like
> the
> ICE and is labeled P R N D L. L is the equivalent of Eco in the Leaf.
>
> Ford has said they will support the SAE quick charge standard when
> finalized. We'll see. The Focus is not yet available here. The one we got
> to drive had Michigan manufacturer's plates on it. I believe the Ford rep
> was out of New Jersey and mentioned that they had people coming in from
> other areas to get them.
>
> She didn't know when they were going to be available here but I would
> assume soon as I believe it was being taken around to show the
> dealerships.
> She works in marketing and graciously brought it out to our meetup at
> FedEx
> Field (which also has a 2 megawatt solar array and 10 level 2 charging
> stations).
>
> Dave
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.

_______________________________________________
| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
| Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
|
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: EVLN: 2012 Ford Focus Electric's not-purpose-built advantages

anthony c
In reply to this post by brucedp5

Ranger EV has Econ and Drive...Difference is in regen....you dont always want full regen....after charge, better to allow batteries to cool, so begin in D.  Down a hill, sometime D is better as you can maintain speed...the super hypermilers even throw it in neutral!
------------------------------
 On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:47 AM EDT Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
 
 >Dave, this is good to know, thanks.
 >My local Ford dealer rep. just did not know to point that out, and if I
 >had been sitting in their EV instead of their ice, I would have asked
 >about it seeing it on the drive selector.
 >
 >So, the Ford Focus Electric does have a 'normal' and an 'Eco' mode. I
 >would likely drive around all day in Eco mode, and only use Normal mode
 >when showing off in EVangel mode. Yea, I am that guy in the right lane
 >driving 55mph no matter what vehicle I am driving.
 >
 > ...
 >[Ref anthony c 's post]
 >IMO While the trans axle design Ford used for the Ford Ranger Electric
 >was interesting, it did have its own inefficiencies that added to the
 >other factors that reduced the truck's range when at highway speeds. The
 >Ranger's design was more for sub-highway speed driving anyway as at the
 >time, Ford's target market back then was for their Electric truck to be
 >used in parks, forestry, or for low-speed security patrols, etc.
 >
 >Concerning the Focus Electric, I do not think Ford tried to reinvent the
 >wheel here, and more likely they were rightly wanting to use current
 >technology. If I remember preliminary newswires, Ford worked with a
 >vendor for the motor/controller/drive-train to adapted it for their
 >integrated use in the Focus ice chassis. I thought I saw that vendor's
 >name on one of the videos I posted on the Focus Electric (they are in
 >the evdl archive). It was one of the videos showing the new Focus
 >production line.
 >
 >
 >{brucedp.150m.com}
 >
 >
 >
 >On Sun, Aug 5, 2012, at 05:42 PM, Dave Davidson wrote:
 >> Bruce,
 >>
 >> Ford does have 2 driving modes like the Leaf. Their selector looks like
 >> the
 >> ICE and is labeled P R N D L. L is the equivalent of Eco in the Leaf.
 >>
 >> Ford has said they will support the SAE quick charge standard when
 >> finalized. We'll see. The Focus is not yet available here. The one we got
 >> to drive had Michigan manufacturer's plates on it. I believe the Ford rep
 >> was out of New Jersey and mentioned that they had people coming in from
 >> other areas to get them.
 >>
 >> She didn't know when they were going to be available here but I would
 >> assume soon as I believe it was being taken around to show the
 >> dealerships.
 >> She works in marketing and graciously brought it out to our meetup at
 >> FedEx
 >> Field (which also has a 2 megawatt solar array and 10 level 2 charging
 >> stations).
 >>
 >> Dave
 >-
 >
 >--
 >http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.
 >
 >_______________________________________________
 >| Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
 >| Please take those discussions elsewhere. Thanks.
 >|
 >| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
 >| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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 >| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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