EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226

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EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on standard
tires (v)
The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to all four
wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short of
driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep, muddy
ruts, Model S and Model X's ...

+
https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-kids-unboxing-video/
Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the Model
S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the miniature
vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off the
miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack. The
Austin Powers star also took ...
https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-not-crashing-grid
Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the existing
electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them—0.19
percent—have actually necessitated distribution system or service line
upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low levels
of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really think
it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
But what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
trucking? What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers,
etc.? What about generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?

Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV, our
electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity
usage is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
assume a 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to
be reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all (considering
time of use).

For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their EVs
at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need grid
storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And how
to store several days worth to even out nature's effects.

Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation
and distribution?

Peri

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-not-crashing-grid

------ Original Message ------
From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226

>
>
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
>EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on
>standard
>tires (v)
>The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to all
>four
>wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
>unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short of
>driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep,
>muddy
>ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
>
>+
>https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-kids-unboxing-video/
>Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
>December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the
>Model
>S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the
>miniature
>vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off
>the
>miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack. The
>Austin Powers star also took ...
>https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
>
>https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-not-crashing-grid
>Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
>Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the
>existing
>electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them—0.19
>percent—have actually necessitated distribution system or service line
>upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low
>levels
>of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
>
>
>
>
>For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
>{brucedp.neocities.org}
>
>--
>Sent from:
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
just like water. if consumption  starts to reach production then they raise prices during peak and/or make rules to only charge during non-peak hours.  this can also be mitigated by having battery backups on houses that are charged during off-peak hours.


      From: Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: Peri Hartman <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 9:28 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
   
I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really think
it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
But what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
trucking? What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers,
etc.? What about generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?

Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV, our
electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity
usage is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
assume a 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to
be reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all (considering
time of use).

For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their EVs
at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need grid
storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And how
to store several days worth to even out nature's effects.

Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation
and distribution?

Peri

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-not-crashing-grid




   
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
These "impact on the grid" scenarios never come to fruition, simply because
every possible impact has not only been envisioned by the person doing the
warning but also has been anticipated by the engineers who design and build
and operate the grid.  The grid evolves every day.  Just ten years ago they
said the grid could not handle more than 10% solar/wind, but now many
countreis have seen days of 100% renewables on some days and the grid held
up just fine.

The "GRID" is a moving and living thing.  Every new demand is a new
opportunity for someone to innovate, and that innovation is running at a
feverish pitch.

By the time there are enough EV's to have even the slightest impact we will
also see all kinds of grid interaction systems balancing in real time and
paying whatever it takes to meet demand, and those with home or grid
batteries will be happy to sell. and or shift demand, etc.

So don't worry about it!  Get on board....

bob, WB4APR

On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 12:52 PM, paul dove via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> just like water. if consumption  starts to reach production then they
> raise prices during peak and/or make rules to only charge during non-peak
> hours.  this can also be mitigated by having battery backups on houses that
> are charged during off-peak hours.
>
>
>       From: Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
>  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Peri Hartman <[hidden email]>
>  Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 9:28 AM
>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
>
> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really think
> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
> But what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
> trucking? What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers,
> etc.? What about generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
>
> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV, our
> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity
> usage is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
> assume a 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to
> be reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all (considering
> time of use).
>
> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their EVs
> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need grid
> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And how
> to store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
>
> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation
> and distribution?
>
> Peri
>
> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-
> not-crashing-grid
>
>
>
>
>
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Peri & All,

I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was being
pushed by mainstream media.
The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times since
the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the utilities
seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer, followed
by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze, followed
by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the device
at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended periods
of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush current
events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.

Tom True



On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really think
> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted. But
> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul trucking?
> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What about
> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
>
> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV, our
> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity usage
> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally assume a
> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be
> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all (considering
> time of use).
>
> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their EVs
> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need grid
> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And how to
> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
>
> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation and
> distribution?
>
> Peri
>
> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> ot-crashing-grid
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
>
>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on standard
>> tires (v)
>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to all
>> four
>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short of
>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep, muddy
>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
>>
>> +
>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-kids-unboxing-video/
>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the
>> Model
>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the miniature
>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off the
>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack. The
>> Austin Powers star also took ...
>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
>>
>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
>> ot-crashing-grid
>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the existing
>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them—0.19
>> percent—have actually necessitated distribution system or service line
>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low
>> levels
>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> /NEDRA)
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> /NEDRA)
>
>


--
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I agree with Tom. As EV are slowly adopted, the grid will find ways to
adapt. Always will and always has.

My state electric utility has asked customers to volunteer (with a nice
cash incentive) to put "black boxes" on their air conditioning loads and
electric water heaters.
The boxes turn off these loads, under the command of the utility, for a
few minutes during peak load periods.
With the thermal inertia, you never notice your A/C was off for a few
extra minutes.
Shaves the tops right off the peak loads on the grid quite nicely.
Little black boxes under remote control are the cheap solution. Everyone
wins.

I would imagine that when EV charging loads become significant, they
will do the same thing. It would be stupid not to.
Only makes sense. Costs very little and you leave the grid pretty much
the same.
Utilities love it. You sell more kWhrs using the identical generation
and distribution equipment. No upgrades whatsoever.
Only folks that volunteer have to do it, and save a bit of money.
Everyone wins.
Simple simple. What's not to like?

The "grid overload" is simply a scare tactic campaign paid for by folks
that will stand to lose by adoption of EVs. (Koch brothers?)

Bill D.


  On 1/1/2018 8:33 PM, Thos True via EV wrote:

> Peri & All,
>
> I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was being
> pushed by mainstream media.
> The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times since
> the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the utilities
> seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
> Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
> refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer, followed
> by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze, followed
> by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
> noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
> stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the device
> at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended periods
> of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
> The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush current
> events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
> according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
> amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
>
> Tom True
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
" Our City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
increased to handle the loads."

You might say that the electric utilities are crashing the grid by not
recognizing the need to respond to change.  EV use will grow, but not too
quickly - in the present when the electric grid should be trying to keep
pace it is not, because of intransigence and the influence of established
interests.

Short term, stockholders may see better returns, but long term building now
would pay off even better. That is not how the market and finance seems to
work these days. Instead it is let's bundle some paper and charge some
fees; not let's rebuild, reinforce and improve infrastructure.

BentMIke

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On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> You paint too broad a brush.
>
> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from the
> grid and increased useage.
>
> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had
> serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for those
> loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
> Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.  Our
> City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity increased to
> handle the loads.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Peri & All,
> >
> > I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was
> being
> > pushed by mainstream media.
> > The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times
> since
> > the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
> utilities
> > seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
> > Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
> > refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer, followed
> > by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze, followed
> > by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
> > noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
> > stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the
> device
> > at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended periods
> > of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
> > The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush current
> > events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
> > according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
> > amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
> >
> > Tom True
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really think
> >> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
> But
> >> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul trucking?
> >> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What
> about
> >> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
> >>
> >> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
> >> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV, our
> >> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
> >> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity
> usage
> >> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
> assume a
> >> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be
> >> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
> >> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all (considering
> >> time of use).
> >>
> >> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their EVs
> >> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need grid
> >> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
> >> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
> >> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And
> how to
> >> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
> >>
> >> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation
> and
> >> distribution?
> >>
> >> Peri
> >>
> >> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> >> ot-crashing-grid
> >>
> >> ------ Original Message ------
> >> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Cc: "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
> >> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
> >> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
> >>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
> >>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
> >>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on
> standard
> >>> tires (v)
> >>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to all
> >>> four
> >>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
> >>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short of
> >>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep,
> muddy
> >>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
> >>>
> >>> +
> >>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-
> kids-unboxing-video/
> >>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
> >>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the
> >>> Model
> >>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the
> miniature
> >>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off
> the
> >>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack. The
> >>> Austin Powers star also took ...
> >>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
> >>>
> >>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> >>> ot-crashing-grid
> >>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
> >>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the
> existing
> >>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them―0.19
> >>> percent―have actually necessitated distribution system or service line
> >>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low
> >>> levels
> >>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> >>> http://evdl.org/archive/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
> nabble.com/
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> >>> /NEDRA)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> >> /NEDRA)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass
> is
> > merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/
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> > _______________________________________________
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>


--
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(19) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

Mark Abramowitz said (in part):
> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from the grid and increased useage.

> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for those loads.
 
Where are you located?  Yes loads have increased, but certainly not causing capacity problems that are not being met by my (not so) local utility - Southern California Edison.
 
 
73
-----
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[hidden email]
 
 
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I have been a commercial electrician for over 20 years now, and have been
around several power sub stations. One thing that you quickly realize at
these sites is a stringent maintenance schedule, which typically recognizes
and implements the most efficient and proactive upgrades available. Maximum
efficiency in smallest footprint equals more income in the long run. This
cost is built into their operating budgets.
Doing this without drawing undue attention is generally in their best
interest, as most people typically don't pay any attention until it
disrupts their plans with an unexpected failure.

-Tom True


On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> " Our City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
> increased to handle the loads."
>
> You might say that the electric utilities are crashing the grid by not
> recognizing the need to respond to change.  EV use will grow, but not too
> quickly - in the present when the electric grid should be trying to keep
> pace it is not, because of intransigence and the influence of established
> interests.
>
> Short term, stockholders may see better returns, but long term building now
> would pay off even better. That is not how the market and finance seems to
> work these days. Instead it is let's bundle some paper and charge some
> fees; not let's rebuild, reinforce and improve infrastructure.
>
> BentMIke
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&
> utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&
> utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > You paint too broad a brush.
> >
> > There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from
> the
> > grid and increased useage.
> >
> > As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had
> > serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for
> those
> > loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
> > Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.  Our
> > City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity increased
> to
> > handle the loads.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Peri & All,
> > >
> > > I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was
> > being
> > > pushed by mainstream media.
> > > The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times
> > since
> > > the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
> > utilities
> > > seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
> > > Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
> > > refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer,
> followed
> > > by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze,
> followed
> > > by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
> > > noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
> > > stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the
> > device
> > > at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended
> periods
> > > of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
> > > The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush
> current
> > > events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
> > > according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
> > > amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
> > >
> > > Tom True
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <
> [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really
> think
> > >> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
> > But
> > >> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
> trucking?
> > >> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What
> > about
> > >> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
> > >>
> > >> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
> > >> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV,
> our
> > >> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
> > >> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity
> > usage
> > >> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
> > assume a
> > >> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be
> > >> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
> > >> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all
> (considering
> > >> time of use).
> > >>
> > >> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their
> EVs
> > >> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need
> grid
> > >> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
> > >> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
> > >> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And
> > how to
> > >> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
> > >>
> > >> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation
> > and
> > >> distribution?
> > >>
> > >> Peri
> > >>
> > >> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> > >> ot-crashing-grid
> > >>
> > >> ------ Original Message ------
> > >> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> > >> To: [hidden email]
> > >> Cc: "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
> > >> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
> > >> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
> > >>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
> > >>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
> > >>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on
> > standard
> > >>> tires (v)
> > >>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to
> all
> > >>> four
> > >>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
> > >>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short
> of
> > >>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep,
> > muddy
> > >>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
> > >>>
> > >>> +
> > >>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-
> > kids-unboxing-video/
> > >>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
> > >>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the
> > >>> Model
> > >>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the
> > miniature
> > >>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off
> > the
> > >>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack.
> The
> > >>> Austin Powers star also took ...
> > >>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
> > >>>
> > >>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> > >>> ot-crashing-grid
> > >>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
> > >>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the
> > existing
> > >>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them―0.19
> > >>> percent―have actually necessitated distribution system or service
> line
> > >>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low
> > >>> levels
> > >>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> > >>> http://evdl.org/archive/
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
> > nabble.com/
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> > >>> /NEDRA)
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> > >> /NEDRA)
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass
> > is
> > > merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/
> > attachments/20180101/107ec2ce/attachment.html>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> > group/NEDRA)
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> > group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 585-6737 Land
> (19) 901-2805 Cell and Text
> (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet,
> Google Phone and Text
> -------------- next part --------------
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> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>


--
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 2 Jan 2018 at 8:17, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

> You might say that the electric utilities are crashing the grid by not
> recognizing the need to respond to change.

We saw how that kind of manipulation worked out for Enron ...

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 2 Jan 2018 at 9:01, Thos True via EV wrote:

> Doing this without drawing undue attention is generally in their best
> interest, as most people typically don't pay any attention until it
> disrupts their plans with an unexpected failure.
>

Except when you have an anti-EV agenda, and want to blame them for all the
customers' problems.

I'm not saying the power companies do.  How foolish would it be to oppose
something that's going to increase their sales?  They certainly weren't
oppsing them back in the 1970s, as far as I can tell.  

But that was before the big wave of consolidations and leveraged buyouts in
the "energy business."  Today it might be different.  If the utilities are
so short-sighted that they see only the short-term infrastructure expense
and not the long-term revenue increase, I can easily imagine that they might
oppose EVs.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
What city do you live in?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 2, 2018, at 7:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> " Our City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
> increased to handle the loads."
>
> You might say that the electric utilities are crashing the grid by not
> recognizing the need to respond to change.  EV use will grow, but not too
> quickly - in the present when the electric grid should be trying to keep
> pace it is not, because of intransigence and the influence of established
> interests.
>
> Short term, stockholders may see better returns, but long term building now
> would pay off even better. That is not how the market and finance seems to
> work these days. Instead it is let's bundle some paper and charge some
> fees; not let's rebuild, reinforce and improve infrastructure.
>
> BentMIke
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> You paint too broad a brush.
>>
>> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from the
>> grid and increased useage.
>>
>> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had
>> serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for those
>> loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
>> Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.  Our
>> City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity increased to
>> handle the loads.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peri & All,
>>>
>>> I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was
>> being
>>> pushed by mainstream media.
>>> The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times
>> since
>>> the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
>> utilities
>>> seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
>>> Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
>>> refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer, followed
>>> by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze, followed
>>> by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
>>> noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
>>> stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the
>> device
>>> at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended periods
>>> of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
>>> The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush current
>>> events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
>>> according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
>>> amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
>>>
>>> Tom True
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really think
>>>> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
>> But
>>>> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul trucking?
>>>> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What
>> about
>>>> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
>>>>
>>>> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
>>>> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV, our
>>>> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
>>>> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity
>> usage
>>>> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
>> assume a
>>>> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be
>>>> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
>>>> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all (considering
>>>> time of use).
>>>>
>>>> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their EVs
>>>> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need grid
>>>> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
>>>> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
>>>> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And
>> how to
>>>> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation
>> and
>>>> distribution?
>>>>
>>>> Peri
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
>>>> ot-crashing-grid
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Cc: "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
>>>> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
>>>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>>>>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
>>>>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
>>>>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on
>> standard
>>>>> tires (v)
>>>>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to all
>>>>> four
>>>>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
>>>>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short of
>>>>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep,
>> muddy
>>>>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
>>>>>
>>>>> +
>>>>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-
>> kids-unboxing-video/
>>>>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
>>>>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the
>>>>> Model
>>>>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the
>> miniature
>>>>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off
>> the
>>>>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack. The
>>>>> Austin Powers star also took ...
>>>>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
>>>>> ot-crashing-grid
>>>>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
>>>>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the
>> existing
>>>>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them―0.19
>>>>> percent―have actually necessitated distribution system or service line
>>>>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low
>>>>> levels
>>>>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>>>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
>> nabble.com/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>>>>> /NEDRA)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>>>> /NEDRA)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass
>> is
>>> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/
>> attachments/20180101/107ec2ce/attachment.html>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>> group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>> group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 585-6737 Land
> (19) 901-2805 Cell and Text
> (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet,
> Google Phone and Text
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> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
This statement, as written, is dubious.  All flat screen TV's except plasma
use less electricity than the older CRT sets did - a 50" LED set uses less
electricity than a 30" CRT.  Plasma is comparable to CRT, but plasma TVs
never really had a lot of market share, even in their brief heyday. What's
more, the total energy usage by TV sets is minimal compared to HVAC,
refrigeration, cooktops, etc.  I think someone's leg was being pulled.

On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 11:42 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> You paint too broad a brush.
>
> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from the
> grid and increased useage.
>
> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had
> serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for those
> loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
> Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.  Our
> City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity increased to
> handle the loads.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Peri & All,
> >
> > I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was
> being
> > pushed by mainstream media.
> > The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times
> since
> > the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
> utilities
> > seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
> > Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
> > refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer, followed
> > by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze, followed
> > by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
> > noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
> > stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the
> device
> > at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended periods
> > of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
> > The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush current
> > events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
> > according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
> > amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
> >
> > Tom True
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really think
> >> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
> But
> >> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul trucking?
> >> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What
> about
> >> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
> >>
> >> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
> >> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV, our
> >> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
> >> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity
> usage
> >> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
> assume a
> >> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be
> >> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
> >> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all (considering
> >> time of use).
> >>
> >> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their EVs
> >> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need grid
> >> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
> >> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
> >> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And
> how to
> >> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
> >>
> >> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation
> and
> >> distribution?
> >>
> >> Peri
> >>
> >> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> >> ot-crashing-grid
> >>
> >> ------ Original Message ------
> >> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Cc: "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
> >> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
> >> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
> >>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
> >>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
> >>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on
> standard
> >>> tires (v)
> >>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to all
> >>> four
> >>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
> >>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short of
> >>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep,
> muddy
> >>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
> >>>
> >>> +
> >>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-
> kids-unboxing-video/
> >>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
> >>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the
> >>> Model
> >>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the
> miniature
> >>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off
> the
> >>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack. The
> >>> Austin Powers star also took ...
> >>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
> >>>
> >>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> >>> ot-crashing-grid
> >>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
> >>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the
> existing
> >>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them―0.19
> >>> percent―have actually necessitated distribution system or service line
> >>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low
> >>> levels
> >>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> >>> http://evdl.org/archive/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
> nabble.com/
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> >>> /NEDRA)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> >> /NEDRA)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass
> is
> > merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/
> attachments/20180101/107ec2ce/attachment.html>
> > _______________________________________________
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Steve Condie via EV wrote:
> This statement, as written, is dubious.  All flat screen TV's except plasma
> use less electricity than the older CRT sets did - a 50" LED set uses less
> electricity than a 30" CRT.

It's difficult to generalize like that. An ancient all-tube TV used
around 200-300 watts. Transistorized TVs with CRTs used 50-100 watts.
Modern TVs vary all over the place, from a few tens of watts, to as much
(or more!) than the old tube TVs.

Screen size is also a major factor in power consumption. Just looking at
the ones I have, the 5" portable uses 8 watts, the 19" uses 75w, and the
40" uses 120 watts.

> What's more, the total energy usage by TV sets is minimal compared to HVAC,
> refrigeration, cooktops, etc.

Here too, there are huge differences between households. Many people
leave multiple TVs on all the time. But their refrigerator only runs a
few hours a day, and the stove may only get used a few times a week.
HVAC electric usage also varies drastically with the seasons, and what
fuel is being used to provide the heat (electric, gas, or oil).

--
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

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I'm in SCE territory, too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 2, 2018, at 8:52 AM, jim--- via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Mark Abramowitz said (in part):
>> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from the grid and increased useage.
>
>> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for those loads.
>
> Where are you located?  Yes loads have increased, but certainly not causing capacity problems that are not being met by my (not so) local utility - Southern California Edison.
>
>
> 73
> -----
> Jim Walls - K6CCC
> [hidden email]
>
>
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>
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

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So we have an interesting conundrum in my province (Nova Scotia).  NS
decided to concentrate their efforts on saving energy instead of cleaning
it up first.  This makes sense as the most efficient watt is the watt that
was never used which I agree with.  They created an organization called
Efficiency Nova Scotia, which helps our sole power company's residential
and business customers save energy with credits for retrofits on lighting,
industrial equipment, even data centers in which I do audits for.  It has
worked great - the province is using 9% less power since 2008 despite high
growth in many areas.  The power company is happy because it doesn't have
to add more infrastructure, natural gas plants, etc.  The problem of course
is when we start using electric cars, will that 9% disappear with the
additional 10% from EVs?  How will Efficiency NS work if the grid's
requirements increase?  Worse is the fact that the energy created here to
charge electric vehicles still comes mostly from polluting sources - see
article here
http://halifaxchronicle.can.newsmemory.com/publink.php?shareid=034660fc3
There is a somewhat valid argument that an electric car used in NS isn't
that much better than a hybrid or even a gas car which lends some minds
down here to think an EV really isn't worth it to buy or even give an
incentive for.  I have argued there is a lot more EV value than just C02 -
where it is emitted, the lower cost of ownership, our infrastructure and
attracting young talent will eventually suffer if we don't keep up with
this modernization.

Would love to hear your feedback!

Cheers
Dan

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 6:12 PM, paul dove via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What city do you live in?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 2, 2018, at 7:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > " Our City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
> > increased to handle the loads."
> >
> > You might say that the electric utilities are crashing the grid by not
> > recognizing the need to respond to change.  EV use will grow, but not too
> > quickly - in the present when the electric grid should be trying to keep
> > pace it is not, because of intransigence and the influence of established
> > interests.
> >
> > Short term, stockholders may see better returns, but long term building
> now
> > would pay off even better. That is not how the market and finance seems
> to
> > work these days. Instead it is let's bundle some paper and charge some
> > fees; not let's rebuild, reinforce and improve infrastructure.
> >
> > BentMIke
> >
> > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&
> utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> > Virus-free.
> > www.avg.com
> > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&
> utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> You paint too broad a brush.
> >>
> >> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from
> the
> >> grid and increased useage.
> >>
> >> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had
> >> serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for
> those
> >> loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
> >> Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.  Our
> >> City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
> increased to
> >> handle the loads.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Peri & All,
> >>>
> >>> I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was
> >> being
> >>> pushed by mainstream media.
> >>> The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times
> >> since
> >>> the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
> >> utilities
> >>> seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
> >>> Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
> >>> refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer,
> followed
> >>> by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze,
> followed
> >>> by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
> >>> noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
> >>> stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the
> >> device
> >>> at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended
> periods
> >>> of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
> >>> The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush
> current
> >>> events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
> >>> according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
> >>> amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
> >>>
> >>> Tom True
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <
> [hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really
> think
> >>>> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
> >> But
> >>>> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
> trucking?
> >>>> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What
> >> about
> >>>> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
> >>>> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV,
> our
> >>>> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
> >>>> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity
> >> usage
> >>>> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
> >> assume a
> >>>> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be
> >>>> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
> >>>> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all
> (considering
> >>>> time of use).
> >>>>
> >>>> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their
> EVs
> >>>> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need
> grid
> >>>> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
> >>>> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
> >>>> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And
> >> how to
> >>>> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
> >>>>
> >>>> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation
> >> and
> >>>> distribution?
> >>>>
> >>>> Peri
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> >>>> ot-crashing-grid
> >>>>
> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
> >>>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> >>>> To: [hidden email]
> >>>> Cc: "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
> >>>> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
> >>>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
> >>>>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
> >>>>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
> >>>>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on
> >> standard
> >>>>> tires (v)
> >>>>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to
> all
> >>>>> four
> >>>>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
> >>>>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short
> of
> >>>>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep,
> >> muddy
> >>>>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-
> >> kids-unboxing-video/
> >>>>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
> >>>>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the
> >>>>> Model
> >>>>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the
> >> miniature
> >>>>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off
> >> the
> >>>>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack.
> The
> >>>>> Austin Powers star also took ...
> >>>>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> >>>>> ot-crashing-grid
> >>>>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
> >>>>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the
> >> existing
> >>>>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them―0.19
> >>>>> percent―have actually necessitated distribution system or service
> line
> >>>>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low
> >>>>> levels
> >>>>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> >>>>> http://evdl.org/archive/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
> >> nabble.com/
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >>>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> >>>>> /NEDRA)
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> >>>> /NEDRA)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass
> >> is
> >>> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
> >>> -------------- next part --------------
> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >>> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/
> >> attachments/20180101/107ec2ce/attachment.html>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> >> group/NEDRA)
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael E. Ross
> > (919) 585-6737 Land
> > (19) 901-2805 Cell and Text
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Re: Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
First, congrats to NS for a great program. That's significant to use 9%
less energy for the province than in 2008. The first thought that comes
to mind for increased energy demand is to use the grid and buy it
elsewhere. Ultimately, the carbon based plants in NS will need to be
replaced but the grid will likely need improving, too. Why not do that
first? People who choose can even by green power using RECs. In the mean
time, solar and wind will become even more effective than today, giving
a better return on investment if built-out later.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dan Baker via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Dan Baker" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 03-Jan-18 7:38:30 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

>So we have an interesting conundrum in my province (Nova Scotia).  NS
>decided to concentrate their efforts on saving energy instead of
>cleaning
>it up first.  This makes sense as the most efficient watt is the watt
>that
>was never used which I agree with.  They created an organization called
>Efficiency Nova Scotia, which helps our sole power company's
>residential
>and business customers save energy with credits for retrofits on
>lighting,
>industrial equipment, even data centers in which I do audits for.  It
>has
>worked great - the province is using 9% less power since 2008 despite
>high
>growth in many areas.  The power company is happy because it doesn't
>have
>to add more infrastructure, natural gas plants, etc.  The problem of
>course
>is when we start using electric cars, will that 9% disappear with the
>additional 10% from EVs?  How will Efficiency NS work if the grid's
>requirements increase?  Worse is the fact that the energy created here
>to
>charge electric vehicles still comes mostly from polluting sources -
>see
>article here
>http://halifaxchronicle.can.newsmemory.com/publink.php?shareid=034660fc3
>There is a somewhat valid argument that an electric car used in NS
>isn't
>that much better than a hybrid or even a gas car which lends some minds
>down here to think an EV really isn't worth it to buy or even give an
>incentive for.  I have argued there is a lot more EV value than just
>C02 -
>where it is emitted, the lower cost of ownership, our infrastructure
>and
>attracting young talent will eventually suffer if we don't keep up with
>this modernization.
>
>Would love to hear your feedback!
>
>Cheers
>Dan
>
>On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 6:12 PM, paul dove via EV <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>
>>What city do you live in?
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jan 2, 2018, at 7:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV <[hidden email]>
>>wrote:
>> >
>> > " Our City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
>> > increased to handle the loads."
>> >
>> > You might say that the electric utilities are crashing the grid by
>>not
>> > recognizing the need to respond to change.  EV use will grow, but
>>not too
>> > quickly - in the present when the electric grid should be trying to
>>keep
>> > pace it is not, because of intransigence and the influence of
>>established
>> > interests.
>> >
>> > Short term, stockholders may see better returns, but long term
>>building
>>now
>> > would pay off even better. That is not how the market and finance
>>seems
>>to
>> > work these days. Instead it is let's bundle some paper and charge
>>some
>> > fees; not let's rebuild, reinforce and improve infrastructure.
>> >
>> > BentMIke
>> >
>> > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&
>>utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>> > Virus-free.
>> > www.avg.com
>> > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&
>>utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <
>>[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> You paint too broad a brush.
>> >>
>> >> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn
>>from
>>the
>> >> grid and increased useage.
>> >>
>> >> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my
>>city had
>> >> serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed
>>for
>>those
>> >> loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
>> >> Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.  
>>Our
>> >> City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
>>increased to
>> >> handle the loads.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV <[hidden email]>
>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Peri & All,
>> >>>
>> >>> I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear
>>was
>> >> being
>> >>> pushed by mainstream media.
>> >>> The reality is no different than events that have occurred many
>>times
>> >> since
>> >>> the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
>> >> utilities
>> >>> seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
>> >>> Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having
>>a
>> >>> refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer,
>>followed
>> >>> by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze,
>>followed
>> >>> by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have
>>a
>> >>> noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid
>>already
>> >>> stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using
>>the
>> >> device
>> >>> at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended
>>periods
>> >>> of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
>> >>> The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush
>>current
>> >>> events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely
>>noticeable,
>> >>> according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the
>>same
>> >>> amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
>> >>>
>> >>> Tom True
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <
>>[hidden email]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't
>>really
>>think
>> >>>> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly
>>impacted.
>> >> But
>> >>>> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
>>trucking?
>> >>>> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.?
>>What
>> >> about
>> >>>> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about
>>10%. I
>> >>>> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our
>>EV,
>>our
>> >>>> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's
>>only
>> >>>> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial
>>electricity
>> >> usage
>> >>>> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally
>> >> assume a
>> >>>> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to
>>be
>> >>>> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term,
>>cause a
>> >>>> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all
>>(considering
>> >>>> time of use).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging
>>their
>>EVs
>> >>>> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll
>>need
>>grid
>> >>>> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a
>>significant
>> >>>> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to
>>the
>> >>>> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina.
>>And
>> >> how to
>> >>>> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on
>>generation
>> >> and
>> >>>> distribution?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Peri
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
>> >>>> ot-crashing-grid
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
>> >>>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
>> >>>> To: [hidden email]
>> >>>> Cc: "brucedp5" <[hidden email]>
>> >>>> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
>> >>>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> >>>>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
>> >>>>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
>> >>>>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on
>> >> standard
>> >>>>> tires (v)
>> >>>>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power
>>to
>>all
>> >>>>> four
>> >>>>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors,
>>providing
>> >>>>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions.
>>Short
>>of
>> >>>>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with
>>deep,
>> >> muddy
>> >>>>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> +
>> >>>>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-
>> >> kids-unboxing-video/
>> >>>>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a
>>beast
>> >>>>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing”
>>of the
>> >>>>> Model
>> >>>>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the
>> >> miniature
>> >>>>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer
>>showed off
>> >> the
>> >>>>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery
>>pack.
>>The
>> >>>>> Austin Powers star also took ...
>> >>>>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
>> >>>>> ot-crashing-grid
>> >>>>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
>> >>>>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the
>> >> existing
>> >>>>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of
>>them―0.19
>> >>>>> percent―have actually necessitated distribution system or
>>service
>>line
>> >>>>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively
>>low
>> >>>>> levels
>> >>>>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> >>>>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
>> >> nabble.com/
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> >>>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> >>>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> >>>>> /NEDRA)
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> >>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> >>>> /NEDRA)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the
>>glass
>> >> is
>> >>> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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>> >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>> >> group/NEDRA)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>> >> group/NEDRA)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michael E. Ross
>> > (919) 585-6737 Land
>> > (19) 901-2805 Cell and Text
>> > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones>
>>Tablet,
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>> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>>group/NEDRA)
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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