EVLN: Real-World EV Experiences ...

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EVLN: Real-World EV Experiences ...

brucedp2
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Tesla-S: An iPad experience wrapped in four electric wheels
A plethora of media pundits pontificate ...

[unformatted]
http://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahelliott/2012/06/25/tesla-model-s-owner-its-better-than-an-aston-martin/
[images] Tesla Model S Owner: It's Better Than An Aston Martin
by Hannah Elliott  6/25/2012

[image]  Courtesy: www.backtoreality.com

Did you catch the party at the Tesla factory last week in Fremont, Calif.? The mayor was there. So was Elon Musk. And about 1,000 guests hyped up on samba music and George Blankenship raving about the first deliveries of the electric Model S.

Bill Lee was there, too. He actually got one.

“The car is unbelievable,” Lee says. He got the sixth one off the line, a black Model S Founders Signature Performance Edition. “I’ll be honest with you. I thought this was going to be just a phenomenal electric car but when I started playing with that user interface and that big screen in there, I was blown away.”

Yes, but will it beat an Aston Martin—is it faster and more luxe? I ask. Musk had promised it would last year.

“Absolutely,” Lee says. “One hundred percent guaranteed. When people go out and actually get behind the wheel of this thing, they’re going to be. blown. away.”

Lee may be a bit biased—he was an early investor in Tesla, and he’s been friends with the South African inventor since the mid-1990s. But Lee did pay the full retail price for his car and has owned a handful of other high-end whips before now. He knows what’s what.

“It’s the best sedan that’s out there,” he says.

An angel investor who has funded Zaarly, Yammer and SpaceX, Lee splits his time between Silicon Valley and Los Angeles, with a lot of traveling thrown in on the side. He will park his new daily driver at the St. Regis Hotel in San Francisco where they’ve installed a charger specifically for electric cars. He says charging it for a couple of hours at a time will do enough to keep him moving.

Lee has plenty of practice driving electric vehicles. He drove the Tesla Roadster for years until the Model S came out, and he’s already got a deposit down on the “falcon-wing” Model X SUV.

“I remember when gas was only $30 dollars a barrel, and everyone just thought it was the dumbest thing to go after electric cars,” he told me. “Oil was not at $100 bucks a barrel where it is today, and EV cars were just the faintest thing on the horizon. It was, ‘Oh you’re just a tech guy doing this in Silicon Valley.’”

The car does offer plenty of technology, starting with the iPad-like 17-inch touch screen in the center console. When I rode in the Model S last fall the seamless integration of the climate control, radio, navigation and phone made for an intuitive, hassle-free driving experience. Details on the car like the auto-open charging lid and the car-shaped key fob with corresponding pressure points show that innovative thinking found its way into every aspect of the vehicle.

Lee calls it “an Apple iPad experience wrapped in four wheels, all electric.” I think it feels like your car can finally keep up with your iPhone.

That is what inspires him most—Lee thinks it’ll start a wave of innovation when competitors get behind the wheel and can dissect it piece by piece.

“I think people need to wake up and see what you can and can’t do,” he says. “People are going to be like, ‘We can’t have 100-mile range cars anymore. Look at what Tesla did. Why can’t we do that?’ There are no excuses anymore.”

Until then, keep your eyes peeled around Palo Alto. You’re bound to see Lee and his new ride.
[© 2012 Forbes.com  All Rights Reserved]


http://www.washingtonpost.com/tesla-ceo-on-impact-of-romney-win-on-electric-cars/2012/06/25/gJQAVVuq2V_video.html
[video removed] Jun. 25, 2012 - Elon Musk, chief executive officer of Tesla Motors Inc., talks about the possible impact on the U.S. electric-car market should presumptive Republican president nominee Mitt Romney win the election in November. Musk spoke with reporters in Fremont, California, on June 22 at a ceremony marking the delivery of Tesla's first Model S sedans to retail customers. (Source: Bloomberg) (Bloomberg)
...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-25/tesla-s-musk-sees-romney-win-as-minor-impact-on-electric-cars.html
Tesla CEO Sees Romney Win as ‘Minor Impact’ on Electric Cars
By Alan Ohnsman and Shivaune Field  Jun 25 2012

Elon Musk, Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA) chief executive officer, said a victory by Republican Mitt Romney in this year’s U.S. presidential election would have only a “minor impact” on the nation’s electric-car market ... Tesla opened the factory with a low-interest loan obtained in 2009 under a federal program Romney often criticizes in campaign speeches.
...
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Tesla-EV-Electric-Vehicle-car-green-manufacturing-pd20120626-VLVSH?opendocument&src=rss
CLIMATE SPECTATOR: Tesla’s gutsy electric car bet





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Re: EVLN: Real-World EV Experiences ...

tomw
I think he needs to wake up and realize that most people do not have his discretionary spending.

"“I think people need to wake up and see what you can and can’t do,” he says. “People are going to be like, ‘We can’t have 100-mile range cars anymore. Look at what Tesla did. Why can’t we do that?’ There are no excuses anymore.”
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Temperature Increase Acceptable

Bill Dennis
The ambient temperature in Salt Lake City yesterday was 100F (38C), so I thought I'd monitor the mid-pack temperature of my LFP cells to see how they were doing.  As a refresher, my commute home is about 15 miles (24 km), with a 1700-foot (517-meter) elevation gain, most of it in the last 6 miles (9.6 km).  During the day, the car is parked in a covered garage, so it doesn't heat up in the sunlight.  

When I climbed into the car after work at 5PM, the pack was sitting at 80F (27C).  I make one stop (about 5 minutes) to pick up my dog, making the entire traffic-light, stop-and-go trip take about 50 minutes.  I'm pleased to report that when I got home, the pack temperature had risen to only 98.6F (37C).  It didn't even have a fever!! :)

After being charged again overnight, the pack's temperature this morning had fallen back to 80F (27C).  Not bad all around, I think.

Bill

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Re: EVLN: Real-World EV Experiences ...

brucedp5
In reply to this post by tomw
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Real-World-EV-Experiences-tp4656036.html
]

'Bill Lee was there, too. He actually got one' ... "When people go out
and actually get behind the wheel of this thing, they’re going to be.
blown. away.”


His wallet is fatter than most people since he can afford to buy one,
but IMO, his words sound more like he is still under the influence of
the 'high' of the ride. They interviewed him while he still had his
Telsa-S buzz on.


{brucedp.150m.com}


-
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012, at 07:15 AM, tomw wrote:
> I think he needs to wake up and realize that most people do not have his
> discretionary spending.
>
> "“I think people need to wake up and see what you can and can’t do,” he
> says. “People are going to be like, ‘We can’t have 100-mile range cars
> anymore. Look at what Tesla did. Why can’t we do that?’ There are no
> excuses
> anymore.”
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different...


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Re: Temperature Increase Acceptable

David Nelson-5
In reply to this post by Bill Dennis
Thanks for the info, Bill. Are your batteries insulated?

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Bill Dennis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The ambient temperature in Salt Lake City yesterday was 100F (38C), so I thought I'd monitor the mid-pack temperature of my LFP cells to see how they were doing.  As a refresher, my commute home is about 15 miles (24 km), with a 1700-foot (517-meter) elevation gain, most of it in the last 6 miles (9.6 km).  During the day, the car is parked in a covered garage, so it doesn't heat up in the sunlight.
>
> When I climbed into the car after work at 5PM, the pack was sitting at 80F (27C).  I make one stop (about 5 minutes) to pick up my dog, making the entire traffic-light, stop-and-go trip take about 50 minutes.  I'm pleased to report that when I got home, the pack temperature had risen to only 98.6F (37C).  It didn't even have a fever!! :)
>
> After being charged again overnight, the pack's temperature this morning had fallen back to 80F (27C).  Not bad all around, I think.
>
> Bill



--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com

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Re: Temperature Increase Acceptable

Bill Dennis
Yes, there's 1-inch of insulation under the battery box, plus 1/4-inch of insulation in the front and back of the battery box.  In the summer, I also have fans on top of the battery box lid that drive air down through the cells and out the sides of the box.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: David Nelson <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 01:21:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Temperature Increase Acceptable

Thanks for the info, Bill. Are your batteries insulated?

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Bill Dennis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The ambient temperature in Salt Lake City yesterday was 100F (38C), so I thought I'd monitor the mid-pack temperature of my LFP cells to see how they were doing.  As a refresher, my commute home is about 15 miles (24 km), with a 1700-foot (517-meter) elevation gain, most of it in the last 6 miles (9.6 km).  During the day, the car is parked in a covered garage, so it doesn't heat up in the sunlight.
>
> When I climbed into the car after work at 5PM, the pack was sitting at 80F (27C).  I make one stop (about 5 minutes) to pick up my dog, making the entire traffic-light, stop-and-go trip take about 50 minutes.  I'm pleased to report that when I got home, the pack temperature had risen to only 98.6F (37C).  It didn't even have a fever!! :)
>
> After being charged again overnight, the pack's temperature this morning had fallen back to 80F (27C).  Not bad all around, I think.
>
> Bill



--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com

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Clutchless on the Interstate

Bill Dennis
In reply to this post by David Nelson-5
Until now, I've been mostly limiting my EV driving to surface roads.  But recently, I've started using I-15 and I-80 for my daily commute. This is the first time that I regret going clutchless in the EV.  The reason is that the Interstates are pretty hilly here.  When the road is flat, I can easily maintain 65 mph in 3rd gear.  But when I have to climb a hill, the only way to keep up to speed is by shifting to 4th.  Then when the road turns flat again, I'd like to downshift back to third to keep the motor rpms high for cooling.  It's a bit of a pain to have to do this 3 or 4 times in a 7-mile stretch of highway.

Bill  

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Willie2
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 09:01:05AM -0400, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Until now, I've been mostly limiting my EV driving to surface roads.  But recently, I've started using I-15 and I-80 for my daily commute. This is the first time that I regret going clutchless in the EV.  The reason is that the Interstates are pretty hilly here.  When the road is flat, I can easily maintain 65 mph in 3rd gear.  But when I have to climb a hill, the only way to keep up to speed is by shifting to 4th.  Then when the road turns flat again, I'd like to downshift back to third to keep the motor rpms high for cooling.  It's a bit of a pain to have to do this 3 or 4 times in a 7-mile stretch of highway.

WOW!  What is you motor speed at 65mph in 3rd?

I'm happy keeping my motor speed above 2000rpm.  Whenever I get above
4000rpm, I think about upshifting.  I have my controller cut out set at
5000rpm.  At 65 mph, I'm thinking about going from 4th to 5th which is
an overdrive.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  100 days  3 hours 20 minutes

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Bill Dennis
I calculate 5800 rpm in 3rd.  It's an ADC 8-inch motor, and the specs I've seen say 8000 rpm red line and 6000 max continuous.   Would 4th be better on the highway anyway?

Bill
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Willie McKemie <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:26:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Clutchless on the Interstate

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 09:01:05AM -0400, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Until now, I've been mostly limiting my EV driving to surface roads.  But recently, I've started using I-15 and I-80 for my daily commute. This is the first time that I regret going clutchless in the EV.  The reason is that the Interstates are pretty hilly here.  When the road is flat, I can easily maintain 65 mph in 3rd gear.  But when I have to climb a hill, the only way to keep up to speed is by shifting to 4th.  Then when the road turns flat again, I'd like to downshift back to third to keep the motor rpms high for cooling.  It's a bit of a pain to have to do this 3 or 4 times in a 7-mile stretch of highway.

WOW!  What is you motor speed at 65mph in 3rd?

I'm happy keeping my motor speed above 2000rpm.  Whenever I get above
4000rpm, I think about upshifting.  I have my controller cut out set at
5000rpm.  At 65 mph, I'm thinking about going from 4th to 5th which is
an overdrive.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  100 days  3 hours 20 minutes

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Voltswagon
In reply to this post by Bill Dennis
WILLIAM DENNIS Owner wrote
when I have to climb a hill, the only way to keep up to speed is by shifting to 4th.  Then when the road turns flat again, I'd like to downshift back to third to keep the motor rpms high for cooling.  It's a bit of a pain to have to do this 3 or 4 times in a 7-mile stretch of highway.
Do you already have forced air cooling?  If not, you could add that then just leave it in 4th.  You would probably be closer to your motor's more efficient band that way anyway.
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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Bill Dennis
It's also a balancing act with the controller.  I think I will indeed add forced air cooling to the motor soon, but I like to keep the Curtis 1231C under 200 amps.  I think its max continuous rating is around 187 amps.  The controller has a heat sink already.  Next week, I'll try driving the whole trip in 4th and monitor the motor amps to see if they're acceptable.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: Voltswagon <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:18:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Clutchless on the Interstate


WILLIAM DENNIS Owner wrote
>
> when I have to climb a hill, the only way to keep up to speed is by
> shifting to 4th.  Then when the road turns flat again, I'd like to
> downshift back to third to keep the motor rpms high for cooling.  It's a
> bit of a pain to have to do this 3 or 4 times in a 7-mile stretch of
> highway.
>
Do you already have forced air cooling?  If not, you could add that then
just leave it in 4th.  You would probably be closer to your motor's more
efficient band that way anyway.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Real-World-EV-Experiences-tp4656036p4656116.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

John Lussmyer
On Thu Jun 28 08:13:03 PDT 2012 [hidden email] said:
>It's also a balancing act with the controller.  I think I will indeed add forced air cooling to the motor soon, but I like to keep the Curtis 1231C under 200 amps.  I think its max continuous rating is around 187 amps.  The controller has a heat sink already.  Next week, I'll try driving the whole trip in 4th and monitor the motor amps to see if they're acceptable.
>

I'm trying to understand this.
In order to maintain the same speed up a hill, you shift up to reduce RPM and increase current draw?
That seems backwards.


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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Bill Dennis
Yes, there was some discussion about this on the list recently.  In 3rd gear, at the higher RPM, there isn't enough torque to maintain 65 mph.  By shifting to 4th, rpms decrease, which increases amperage.  Now there is enough torque to get up the hill.  

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: [hidden email]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:30:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Clutchless on the Interstate

On Thu Jun 28 08:13:03 PDT 2012 [hidden email] said:
>It's also a balancing act with the controller.  I think I will indeed add forced air cooling to the motor soon, but I like to keep the Curtis 1231C under 200 amps.  I think its max continuous rating is around 187 amps.  The controller has a heat sink already.  Next week, I'll try driving the whole trip in 4th and monitor the motor amps to see if they're acceptable.
>

I'm trying to understand this.
In order to maintain the same speed up a hill, you shift up to reduce RPM and increase current draw?
That seems backwards.


--

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

brucedp5
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
Though I had a clutch, I have experienced what Bill stated (shifting up
to a higher gear to maintain speed).

When I originally got my S-10 Blazer back from the converter, its
differential was the highest gear ratio type (its what was on the donor
vehicle from the Auto Dismantler - one donor made out of 5 vehicles).
When I wanted more torque to say, climb a steep grade, shifting-up did
the trick.

But where I am at in CA, I found it less useful to have this high
differential ratio, so I paid to have the differential swapped out for a
the second to the lowest ratio one (the S-10 has 4 different ratios to
choose from). Afterward, though I could no longer wind-up and cruise on
the highway at 85 to 90 mph, I now had a much better handle on climbing
steep mountain grades in the low gears.

After the differential change my top speed wound up at 75mph, but my 1st
gear was super low for climbing China Grade in the Santa Cruz mountains
(see the video link below, 2:00 it begins, 3:00 it gets tighter, and at
6:00 is when it is most hairy). Or if a show/EVent coordinator wanted me
to position my EV up on a steep lawn hump/hill for display [
http://blog.illumind.com/wp-content/gallery/paris/butteschamont-hillkids-custom.jpg
].

That lower geared differential is what I would recommend when looking
for a S-10 donor, if you, like me, want to cruise at 55mph to minimize
the wind-pusher/amount-of-aerodynamic-drag a S-10 has. If I had to I
could wind up to higher speeds, but I preferred to let the good nedra.com
folk do the fast/performance EV driving (my EV was more of a rolling
test-bench/lead-sled).


{Informational links:
China Grade Road
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sherwoodh/3410276299/
http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/santacruzmtns.htm
http://www.trek4fun.com/trails/big%20basin%20gazos%20creek%20butano.htm

[video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qCed8MVs_tY
China Grade Road
daflyinpig on Oct 8, 2010
This is my first excursion on China Grade Road on my sportbike.
If you want to work your suspension, this is the road to do it on!
]

I-80 & I-15
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_80#Utah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_80_in_Utah
}


{brucedp.150m.com}


-
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 09:30 AM, Cougar@casadelgato.com wrote:
> On Thu Jun 28 08:13:03 PDT 2012 ev1@q.com said:
> >It's also a balancing act with the controller.  I think I will indeed add forced air cooling to the motor soon, but I like to keep the Curtis 1231C under 200 amps.  I think its max continuous rating is around 187 amps.  The controller has a heat sink already.  Next week, I'll try driving the whole trip in 4th and monitor the motor amps to see if they're acceptable.
> >
>
> I'm trying to understand this.
> In order to maintain the same speed up a hill, you shift up to reduce RPM
> and increase current draw?
> That seems backwards.
-

-
From:  Bill Dennis <ev1@q.com>
>When the road is flat, I can easily maintain 65 mph in 3rd gear.  But when I have to climb a hill, the only way to keep up to speed is by shifting to 4th.<

Yes, there was some discussion about this on the list recently.  In 3rd
gear, at the higher RPM, there isn't enough torque to maintain 65 mph.
By shifting to 4th, rpms decrease, which increases amperage.  Now there
is enough torque to get up the hill.  
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
On 6/28/2012 11:30 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> I'm trying to understand this. In order to maintain the same speed up
> a hill, you shift up to reduce RPM and increase current draw? That
> seems backwards.

It may seem backwards, but it is correct.

Since battery voltage is (roughly) constant, you get maximum horsepower
at maximum battery current. This occurs at the point where the
controller is 100% on but not in current limit. It will be at some
particular motor RPM, which depends on the motor, pack voltage, and
controller's current limit.

So, to climb a hill at the fastest possible speed, shift to maximize
battery current. This will be a downshift if motor RPM was too low, or
an *upshift* if motor speed was too high.

--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!    -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by brucedp5
Yup, that is why I was happy to find out that my truck has the 4.10
differential ratio (4.1 rotations of the driveshaft to get 1
rotation of both rear wheels) so I can even consider going
direct drive, which would be more difficult with the other
ratios that are lower and give less torque multiplication and
motor speed reduction to the wheels.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Bruce EVangel Parmenter
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:41 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Clutchless on the Interstate

Though I had a clutch, I have experienced what Bill stated (shifting up
to a higher gear to maintain speed).

When I originally got my S-10 Blazer back from the converter, its
differential was the highest gear ratio type (its what was on the donor
vehicle from the Auto Dismantler - one donor made out of 5 vehicles).
When I wanted more torque to say, climb a steep grade, shifting-up did
the trick.

But where I am at in CA, I found it less useful to have this high
differential ratio, so I paid to have the differential swapped out for a
the second to the lowest ratio one (the S-10 has 4 different ratios to
choose from). Afterward, though I could no longer wind-up and cruise on
the highway at 85 to 90 mph, I now had a much better handle on climbing
steep mountain grades in the low gears.

After the differential change my top speed wound up at 75mph, but my 1st
gear was super low for climbing China Grade in the Santa Cruz mountains
(see the video link below, 2:00 it begins, 3:00 it gets tighter, and at
6:00 is when it is most hairy). Or if a show/EVent coordinator wanted me
to position my EV up on a steep lawn hump/hill for display [
http://blog.illumind.com/wp-content/gallery/paris/butteschamont-hillkids
-custom.jpg
].

That lower geared differential is what I would recommend to S-10 donors
if you, like me, want to cruise at 55mph to minimize the
wind-pusher/amount-of-aerodynamic-drag a S-10 has. If I had to I could
wind up to higher speeds, but I preferred to let the good nedra.com folk
do the fast/performance EV driving (my EV was more of a rolling
test-bench/lead-sled).


{Informational links:
China Grade Road
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sherwoodh/3410276299/
http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/santacruzmtns.htm
http://www.trek4fun.com/trails/big%20basin%20gazos%20creek%20butano.htm

[video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qCed8MVs_tY
China Grade Road
daflyinpig on Oct 8, 2010
This is my first excursion on China Grade Road on my sportbike.
If you want to work your suspension, this is the road to do it on!
]

I-80 & I-15
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_80#Utah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_80_in_Utah
}


{brucedp.150m.com}


-
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 09:30 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> On Thu Jun 28 08:13:03 PDT 2012 [hidden email] said:
> >It's also a balancing act with the controller.  I think I will indeed
add forced air cooling to the motor soon, but I like to keep the Curtis
1231C under 200 amps.  I think its max continuous rating is around 187
amps.  The controller has a heat sink already.  Next week, I'll try
driving the whole trip in 4th and monitor the motor amps to see if
they're acceptable.
> >
>
> I'm trying to understand this.
> In order to maintain the same speed up a hill, you shift up to reduce
> RPM and increase current draw?
> That seems backwards.
-

-
From:  Bill Dennis <[hidden email]>
>When the road is flat, I can easily maintain 65 mph in 3rd gear.  But
>when I have to climb a hill, the only way to keep up to speed is by
>shifting to 4th.<

Yes, there was some discussion about this on the list recently.  In 3rd
gear, at the higher RPM, there isn't enough torque to maintain 65 mph.
By shifting to 4th, rpms decrease, which increases amperage.  Now there
is enough torque to get up the hill.  
-

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

martinwinlow
In reply to this post by Lee Hart

On 28 Jun 2012, at 20:05, Lee Hart wrote:

> On 6/28/2012 11:30 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> I'm trying to understand this. In order to maintain the same speed up
>> a hill, you shift up to reduce RPM and increase current draw? That
>> seems backwards.
>
> It may seem backwards, but it is correct.
>
> Since battery voltage is (roughly) constant, you get maximum horsepower
> at maximum battery current. This occurs at the point where the
> controller is 100% on but not in current limit. It will be at some
> particular motor RPM, which depends on the motor, pack voltage, and
> controller's current limit.
>
> So, to climb a hill at the fastest possible speed, shift to maximize
> battery current. This will be a downshift if motor RPM was too low, or
> an *upshift* if motor speed was too high.
>
> --
> Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!    -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net
>
>

... which (to me) immediately begs the question 'Is there an app for that?" or some easy way of modifying ones instrumentation to give the driver a clue as to what s/he should do to maximise efficiency in such a scenario - or are there too many variables?

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Cor van de Water
For decades, the "app" was run by the nut behind the wheel
using fuzzy logic, often simply trying which gives the
desired result and repeating that behavior in similar
circumstances...


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Martin WINLOW
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:59 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Clutchless on the Interstate


On 28 Jun 2012, at 20:05, Lee Hart wrote:

> On 6/28/2012 11:30 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> I'm trying to understand this. In order to maintain the same speed up

>> a hill, you shift up to reduce RPM and increase current draw? That
>> seems backwards.
>
> It may seem backwards, but it is correct.
>
> Since battery voltage is (roughly) constant, you get maximum
> horsepower at maximum battery current. This occurs at the point where
> the controller is 100% on but not in current limit. It will be at some

> particular motor RPM, which depends on the motor, pack voltage, and
> controller's current limit.
>
> So, to climb a hill at the fastest possible speed, shift to maximize
> battery current. This will be a downshift if motor RPM was too low, or

> an *upshift* if motor speed was too high.
>
> --
> Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!    -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at
> earthlink.net
>
>

... which (to me) immediately begs the question 'Is there an app for
that?" or some easy way of modifying ones instrumentation to give the
driver a clue as to what s/he should do to maximise efficiency in such a
scenario - or are there too many variables?

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk

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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

tomw
In reply to this post by martinwinlow
The HPEVS AC motors with Curtis AC controllers come with the Curtis "Spyglass" gauge which reads out things like motor rpm and temperature, controller temperature, battery voltage...  It also has LEDs that light to indicate regenerative braking, and poor, fair, and good motor efficiency based on motor slip.
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Re: Clutchless on the Interstate

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by martinwinlow
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Since battery voltage is (roughly) constant, you get maximum
>> horsepower at maximum battery current. This occurs at the point
>> where the controller is 100% on but not in current limit. It will
>> be at some particular motor RPM, which depends on the motor, pack
>> voltage, and controller's current limit.
>>
>> So, to climb a hill at the fastest possible speed, shift to
>> maximize battery current. This will be a downshift if motor RPM was
>> too low, or an *upshift* if motor speed was too high.

Martin WINLOW wrote:
> ... which (to me) immediately begs the question 'Is there an app for
> that?" or some easy way of modifying ones instrumentation to give the
> driver a clue as to what s/he should do to maximise efficiency in
> such a scenario - or are there too many variables?

It's not that hard. If you want maximum horsepower, shift to get maximum
battery current.

If you want maximum efficiency, shift to get *minimum* battery current.

--
First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they fight you; then you
win.
        -- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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