EVLN: TMC sez they're not ready for EVs> (TMC EV$4 India&China, still pushing fcvs)

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EVLN: TMC sez they're not ready for EVs> (TMC EV$4 India&China, still pushing fcvs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list


https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/19/toyota-chairman-tells-der-spiegel-evs-not-ready-mass-production-yet-expensive-slow-charge/
Toyota Chairman Tells Der Spiegel EVs Are Not Ready For Mass Production Yet,
Too Expensive & Too Slow To Charge
November 19th, 2017  James Ayre

[image  
https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/09/Tesla-Model-3-white-pop.png
Tesla-3
]

In keeping with earlier comments from Toyota execs about electric vehicles,
Toyota Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada was recently quoted by the noted German
publication Der Spiegel as saying that plug-in electric vehicles are not yet
ready for mass production and sale.

“Battery-powered cars with a long range are very expensive and it takes a
long time to charge them,” Uchiyamada stated. “Such cars do not fit in our
program.”

The Toyota Chairman also noted that his company didn’t view Tesla as an
enemy or as a role model, but rather perhaps as a problem for the German
auto manufacturers.

“Tesla is not our enemy and not our role model,” Uchiyamada continued. “I
think it’s the German manufacturers that rather see Tesla as a competitor.”

That’s seemingly a true statement in that the market share that Tesla has
been stealing in recent years has largely been that of luxury German auto
manufacturers, but it has also been taking away Toyota Prius buyers — a lot
of them. The Tesla Model 3 will do so to an even greater degree.

Until Tesla begins selling models that are cheap enough that they can
compete with Toyota’s mainstays, however, then Uchiyamada seems to have
somewhat of a point.

Reuters provides more: “Toyota in September established a venture to develop
electric vehicle technology with partner Mazda Motor Corp, seeking to catch
up with rivals in an increasingly frenetic race to produce more
battery-powered cars. … Uchiyamada said that Toyota was working on a new
type of solid-state battery that is able to store more power and can be
recharged much more quickly than current types.”

“This technology will be a big development step. But that will still take
time. We expect mass production in four to five years,” he stated.

In related news, Toyota and Suzuki have come to agreement that will see the
two firms cooperate on the development and sale of plug-in electric vehicles
in the fast growing market in India from 2020 onwards, and Toyota is
considering a strategy in China of producing its electric products locally
with a joint venture. In other words, rather than take bold steps to try to
become a major battery electric car player globally, it is looking at
piecemeal plans for specific locations where governmental policies basically
require it.

In other recent stories, Toyota expressed that it is still hopeful about
hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Seriously.
[© Sustainable Enterprises Media]



http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/electric-cars-not-ready-for-mass-production-yet-toyota-chairman-to-spiegel-2017-11-20
Electric cars not ready for mass production yet – Toyota chairman to Spiegel
20th November 2017  Reuters ... Toyota and Suzuki Motor Corp said they had
agreed to cooperate in selling electric vehicles in India from around 2020,
aiming to give each other a leg up in emerging markets and in low-emission
technology ...
...
https://www.cardekho.com/india-car-news/toyota-to-bring-prius-prime-and-small-electric-car-to-india-20967.htm
Toyota To Bring Prius Prime And Small Electric Car To India
Nov 20, 2017  The small electric city car will most likely come out of the
Toyota-Suzuki joint venture ...
...
http://speedlux.com/toyota-plans-selling-locally-developed-electric-vehicles-china/
Toyota plans of selling locally developed electric vehicles in China
18 November 2017 … we have started thinking about the possibility of having
our China joint-venture partners provide us with EVs,” stated Hiroji Onishi,
Toyota’s head of China operations, during the press conference at the
Guangzhou auto show ...
https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/international/toyota-to-re-enter-electric-vehicles-starting-in-china-from-2020-12049949




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: EVLN: TMC sez they're not ready for EVs> (TMC EV$4 India&China, still pushing fcvs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Toyota on EVs sounds a lot like GM did on small cars in 1970.  We know how
this story ends.

Good luck with that, Mr Uchiyamada.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [SPAM?] EVLN: TMC sez they're not ready for EVs> (TMC EV$4 India&China, still pushing fcvs)

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Classic statements from an entrenched player caught in a disruptive market.  "The new thing is too expensive and doesn't do everything it should" until suddenly it does, and offers new benefits.

I'm actually hoping the Toyota/Mazda joint venture works out because I have always liked Mazda cars and I was concerned they were being left behind.

However, I'm not convinced that Toyota is taking this seriously enough.  Time will tell.

Mike

> On November 21, 2017 at 5:15 AM brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/19/toyota-chairman-tells-der-spiegel-evs-not-ready-mass-production-yet-expensive-slow-charge/
> Toyota Chairman Tells Der Spiegel EVs Are Not Ready For Mass Production Yet,
> Too Expensive & Too Slow To Charge
> November 19th, 2017  James Ayre
>
> [image  
> https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/09/Tesla-Model-3-white-pop.png
> Tesla-3
> ]
>
> In keeping with earlier comments from Toyota execs about electric vehicles,
> Toyota Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada was recently quoted by the noted German
> publication Der Spiegel as saying that plug-in electric vehicles are not yet
> ready for mass production and sale.
>
> “Battery-powered cars with a long range are very expensive and it takes a
> long time to charge them,” Uchiyamada stated. “Such cars do not fit in our
> program.”
>
> The Toyota Chairman also noted that his company didn’t view Tesla as an
> enemy or as a role model, but rather perhaps as a problem for the German
> auto manufacturers.
>
> “Tesla is not our enemy and not our role model,” Uchiyamada continued. “I
> think it’s the German manufacturers that rather see Tesla as a competitor.”
>
> That’s seemingly a true statement in that the market share that Tesla has
> been stealing in recent years has largely been that of luxury German auto
> manufacturers, but it has also been taking away Toyota Prius buyers — a lot
> of them. The Tesla Model 3 will do so to an even greater degree.
>
> Until Tesla begins selling models that are cheap enough that they can
> compete with Toyota’s mainstays, however, then Uchiyamada seems to have
> somewhat of a point.
>
> Reuters provides more: “Toyota in September established a venture to develop
> electric vehicle technology with partner Mazda Motor Corp, seeking to catch
> up with rivals in an increasingly frenetic race to produce more
> battery-powered cars. … Uchiyamada said that Toyota was working on a new
> type of solid-state battery that is able to store more power and can be
> recharged much more quickly than current types.”
>
> “This technology will be a big development step. But that will still take
> time. We expect mass production in four to five years,” he stated.
>
> In related news, Toyota and Suzuki have come to agreement that will see the
> two firms cooperate on the development and sale of plug-in electric vehicles
> in the fast growing market in India from 2020 onwards, and Toyota is
> considering a strategy in China of producing its electric products locally
> with a joint venture. In other words, rather than take bold steps to try to
> become a major battery electric car player globally, it is looking at
> piecemeal plans for specific locations where governmental policies basically
> require it.
>
> In other recent stories, Toyota expressed that it is still hopeful about
> hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Seriously.
> [© Sustainable Enterprises Media]
>
>
>
> http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/electric-cars-not-ready-for-mass-production-yet-toyota-chairman-to-spiegel-2017-11-20
> Electric cars not ready for mass production yet – Toyota chairman to Spiegel
> 20th November 2017  Reuters ... Toyota and Suzuki Motor Corp said they had
> agreed to cooperate in selling electric vehicles in India from around 2020,
> aiming to give each other a leg up in emerging markets and in low-emission
> technology ...
> ...
> https://www.cardekho.com/india-car-news/toyota-to-bring-prius-prime-and-small-electric-car-to-india-20967.htm
> Toyota To Bring Prius Prime And Small Electric Car To India
> Nov 20, 2017  The small electric city car will most likely come out of the
> Toyota-Suzuki joint venture ...
> ...
> http://speedlux.com/toyota-plans-selling-locally-developed-electric-vehicles-china/
> Toyota plans of selling locally developed electric vehicles in China
> 18 November 2017 … we have started thinking about the possibility of having
> our China joint-venture partners provide us with EVs,” stated Hiroji Onishi,
> Toyota’s head of China operations, during the press conference at the
> Guangzhou auto show ...
> https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/international/toyota-to-re-enter-electric-vehicles-starting-in-china-from-2020-12049949
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: [SPAM?] EVLN: TMC sez they're not ready for EVs> (TMC EV$4 India&China, still pushing fcvs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I think, for better or worse, they are simply saying that they want to
stay out of the early adopter market. I don't think they are saying they
want to stay out of EVs, long run.

The prius, although its initial market was small, was instantly a mass
market vehicle. It was a comfortably sized sedan, not too expensive, and
operated in a way people were used to. Short range (100 miles) EVs or
long range EVs don't have all those characteristics yet.

My guess is that once battery technology allows a cheaper, lighter pack
and charging infrastructure typically provides, say, 100kW, Toyota will
jump in.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "- - via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "- -" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 21-Nov-17 9:57:41 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: TMC sez they're not ready for EVs>
(TMC EV$4 India&China, still pushing fcvs)

>Classic statements from an entrenched player caught in a disruptive
>market.  "The new thing is too expensive and doesn't do everything it
>should" until suddenly it does, and offers new benefits.
>
>I'm actually hoping the Toyota/Mazda joint venture works out because I
>have always liked Mazda cars and I was concerned they were being left
>behind.
>
>However, I'm not convinced that Toyota is taking this seriously enough.
>  Time will tell.
>
>Mike
>
>>On November 21, 2017 at 5:15 AM brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/19/toyota-chairman-tells-der-spiegel-evs-not-ready-mass-production-yet-expensive-slow-charge/
>>Toyota Chairman Tells Der Spiegel EVs Are Not Ready For Mass
>>Production Yet,
>>Too Expensive & Too Slow To Charge
>>November 19th, 2017  James Ayre
>>
>>[image
>>https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/09/Tesla-Model-3-white-pop.png
>>Tesla-3
>>]
>>
>>In keeping with earlier comments from Toyota execs about electric
>>vehicles,
>>Toyota Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada was recently quoted by the noted
>>German
>>publication Der Spiegel as saying that plug-in electric vehicles are
>>not yet
>>ready for mass production and sale.
>>
>>“Battery-powered cars with a long range are very expensive and it
>>takes a
>>long time to charge them,” Uchiyamada stated. “Such cars do not fit in
>>our
>>program.”
>>
>>The Toyota Chairman also noted that his company didn’t view Tesla as
>>an
>>enemy or as a role model, but rather perhaps as a problem for the
>>German
>>auto manufacturers.
>>
>>“Tesla is not our enemy and not our role model,” Uchiyamada continued.
>>“I
>>think it’s the German manufacturers that rather see Tesla as a
>>competitor.”
>>
>>That’s seemingly a true statement in that the market share that Tesla
>>has
>>been stealing in recent years has largely been that of luxury German
>>auto
>>manufacturers, but it has also been taking away Toyota Prius buyers —
>>a lot
>>of them. The Tesla Model 3 will do so to an even greater degree.
>>
>>Until Tesla begins selling models that are cheap enough that they can
>>compete with Toyota’s mainstays, however, then Uchiyamada seems to
>>have
>>somewhat of a point.
>>
>>Reuters provides more: “Toyota in September established a venture to
>>develop
>>electric vehicle technology with partner Mazda Motor Corp, seeking to
>>catch
>>up with rivals in an increasingly frenetic race to produce more
>>battery-powered cars. … Uchiyamada said that Toyota was working on a
>>new
>>type of solid-state battery that is able to store more power and can
>>be
>>recharged much more quickly than current types.”
>>
>>“This technology will be a big development step. But that will still
>>take
>>time. We expect mass production in four to five years,” he stated.
>>
>>In related news, Toyota and Suzuki have come to agreement that will
>>see the
>>two firms cooperate on the development and sale of plug-in electric
>>vehicles
>>in the fast growing market in India from 2020 onwards, and Toyota is
>>considering a strategy in China of producing its electric products
>>locally
>>with a joint venture. In other words, rather than take bold steps to
>>try to
>>become a major battery electric car player globally, it is looking at
>>piecemeal plans for specific locations where governmental policies
>>basically
>>require it.
>>
>>In other recent stories, Toyota expressed that it is still hopeful
>>about
>>hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Seriously.
>>[© Sustainable Enterprises Media]
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/electric-cars-not-ready-for-mass-production-yet-toyota-chairman-to-spiegel-2017-11-20
>>Electric cars not ready for mass production yet – Toyota chairman to
>>Spiegel
>>20th November 2017  Reuters ... Toyota and Suzuki Motor Corp said they
>>had
>>agreed to cooperate in selling electric vehicles in India from around
>>2020,
>>aiming to give each other a leg up in emerging markets and in
>>low-emission
>>technology ...
>>...
>>https://www.cardekho.com/india-car-news/toyota-to-bring-prius-prime-and-small-electric-car-to-india-20967.htm
>>Toyota To Bring Prius Prime And Small Electric Car To India
>>Nov 20, 2017  The small electric city car will most likely come out of
>>the
>>Toyota-Suzuki joint venture ...
>>...
>>http://speedlux.com/toyota-plans-selling-locally-developed-electric-vehicles-china/
>>Toyota plans of selling locally developed electric vehicles in China
>>18 November 2017 … we have started thinking about the possibility of
>>having
>>our China joint-venture partners provide us with EVs,” stated Hiroji
>>Onishi,
>>Toyota’s head of China operations, during the press conference at the
>>Guangzhou auto show ...
>>https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/international/toyota-to-re-enter-electric-vehicles-starting-in-china-from-2020-12049949
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>>{brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>>--
>>Sent from:
>>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>>_______________________________________________
>>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [SPAM?] EVLN: TMC sez they're not ready for EVs> (TMC EV$4 India&China, still pushing fcvs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I think Toyota viewed the Prius as a risk, and it took several years for it to start making money. Perhaps it was also their way damping criticism of pulling the RAV-4 EV from the market. I don't know.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think, for better or worse, they are simply saying that they want to stay out of the early adopter market. I don't think they are saying they want to stay out of EVs, long run.
>
> The prius, although its initial market was small, was instantly a mass market vehicle. It was a comfortably sized sedan, not too expensive, and operated in a way people were used to. Short range (100 miles) EVs or long range EVs don't have all those characteristics yet.
>
> My guess is that once battery technology allows a cheaper, lighter pack and charging infrastructure typically provides, say, 100kW, Toyota will jump in.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "- - via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "- -" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 21-Nov-17 9:57:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: TMC sez they're not ready for EVs> (TMC EV$4 India&China, still pushing fcvs)
>
>> Classic statements from an entrenched player caught in a disruptive market.  "The new thing is too expensive and doesn't do everything it should" until suddenly it does, and offers new benefits.
>>
>> I'm actually hoping the Toyota/Mazda joint venture works out because I have always liked Mazda cars and I was concerned they were being left behind.
>>
>> However, I'm not convinced that Toyota is taking this seriously enough.  Time will tell.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>> On November 21, 2017 at 5:15 AM brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)