EVLN status: a running-start to micro-moment satiate

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EVLN status: a running-start to micro-moment satiate

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[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20191109-tp4695553p4695557.html
(Paul sez) ... now posting messages from 5 days in the
future ...
]

(offt)
Actually Paul, its the reverse of what you stated.
Perhaps Paul was afk or asleep when on 20190629 I posted

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVnews-status-slo-newz-dayz-offline-5-20-tp4693595p4693991.html

 stating I had changed my EVLN newswire postings to 1 week's
worth at a time (rather than daily). Which I did, not only
because the amount news items had dried up, and had changed
to be a feast or famine situation, but also, this freed up
my personal time during the week, so I could spend energy
going to my local San Antonio (sa), TX VA Hospital
appointments, and working with my realtor to view sa homes
for sale ...

 (I must schedule all that physical activity to also include
physical recovery/sleep time ...
 remember I'm not the young high-energy/testosterone man
back when I started posting EV news items to the evdl.org
in 1990. I've tuned/adjusted my life to be able to still
contribute to society within my reduced old-age abilities
 ... :sigh: ).

Example: Since posting the last set of EVLN items paced/
doled-out, I won't need to post again until next Monday
(but because readers are hungry for items, I like to
target getting them out on Sunday, along with
onesie-twosie non-EVLN items that might be of EV interest.

My 24hr day is not what it was. I don't sleep 8 to 10 hours
in one setting like when I was younger. Now, its several
3hr naps, with a couple hrs of puttering around trying to
get something accomplished, (repeat ... another nap,
likely sleepiness induced from the 6+ prescribed
medications). Hence, I am never really rested with enough
endurance for a day's efforts, but just happy to be alive
so I'm still able to EV-contribute.

During the week's in-between times, I search the newswires
daily, trying to gather enough EV items to keep EVangels
knowledgeable and the evdl.org archive useful for future
generations.

Another physical energy-draining load is hauling my big
body to the sa VA hospital for appointments (its a long
hike from the VA parking lot, then fathom the maze of
hallways, check-in, wait for your turn to spend time
with staff, then physically haul my tired body out of
there, back to my ride, up the stairs (ouch), and crash
into bed to recover (the next two Fridays, I have VA
appointments like that, etc.).

More demanding is the days I schedule with my realtor to
view homes for sale that are close to the sa VA Hospital.
Usually, I walk through 3 different ones on those days,
thus I'm quite spent/tired by the end (but still have to
make it back, climb the stairs, etc.).

btw, the home purchase task is a steep learning curve for
me. My last home purchase was way back in the 1970's (with
a young wife) which was within walking distance of the then
hp Cupertino-CA site's 11 buildings I supported. A lot has
changed with home buying since then. Its a lot more online
(hi-tech) involved than before (= quite a time sink).

Interestingly, after 15yrs, that $41.5k old house she got,
which is now just a couple blocks from the huge Apple
(ring) spaceship complex
https://www.google.com/search?q=huge+Apple+(ring)+spaceship

(Apple bought that hp site, wiped out everything, mature
redwood trees and all, and spent their mega$ building that
whackadoodle complex) ... her house now lists for $2M ...
(go figure).


Bottom line: the week's worth of EVLN newswire items I post
are from the previous week (note the date of each item I
always make an effort to include along with the URL, etc.).
It now takes a running-start to pump-out enough EV news
items to keep readers satiated for the micro-moment (but
never satisfied as they will always want more).
 Enjoy :-zzz




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: EVLN status: a running-start to micro-moment satiate

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Don't believe any of that stuff.  The truth is that Bruce has a shiny new
Peabody Wayback Machine (tm) that not only goes forward into the past, it
goes backward into the future.  It's powered by a 24MWh lithium battery and
a 12-phase induction drive.  It has level 9 AC charging, and for 10 second
DC charging, he just plugs it into lightning storms.

Bruce doesn't want us to know, though, because we'd all want one.

:-)

Seriously, thanks to Bruce for his many years of effort in keeping us
connected to what the media say about EVs -- even (maybe especially) when
what they say is face-palm ignorant.

And best wishes in your house hunting, Bruce.  I hope you find the perfect
place, with a nice garage for an EV SUV, and plenty of roof space for the PV
to charge it.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: EVLN status: a running-start to micro-moment satiate

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> (Paul sez) ... now posting messages from 5 days in the
> future ...

Actually, Bruce has so much experience with this that he probably *can*
write EV news from the future. Most EV press releases are fiction
anyway. Let's see...

"Revolutionary electric motor has twice the efficiency"

"Battery breakthrough promises ICE-like range for electric cars"

"OPEC study proves electric cars make pollution worse, not better"

Lee Hart
--
There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.

My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
mile ?

verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?

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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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My leaf averages 4.1 kWh/mi. Mostly in-town, which is close to your speed spec.

Sincerely,
Bob Bath

Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54 y.o. vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not cluelessness.


> On Nov 12, 2019, at 7:45 PM, evtlfp20 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per mile ?
>
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
40a x 72v = 2880 Watts of power.
This is 2880 Wh (Watthour) of energy in an hour.
In that hour you go 40 mi, so your efficiency is 2880/40 = 72 Wh/mi
This is very low for an EV, but that is also due to low speed.
At Freeway speed your consumption per mile will be much higher.
My truck can achieve about 15kW at 60 MPH, which means 1/4 kWh/mi.
Most EVs are capable of going 3-5 mi per kWh, which means an efficiency of
between 200-333 Wh/mi. But this is typically spec'ed in mixed driving with
freeway and city driving cycle. In city most EVs shine due to great
efficiency at lower speeds, combined with regen.
Cor.

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 8:02 PM evtlfp20 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
> mile ?
>
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Another way of computing that is you get about 13.7 miles/kWh (40/2.88).
This compares with 4.3 miles/kWh over 10,000 miles for my long range Tesla
model 3

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 7:45 PM evtlfp20 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
> mile ?
>
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
An small motorcycle and rider has roughly the same drag at 60mpg as a small car.

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 05:02, evtlfp20 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
> mile ?
>
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>


--
Paul Compton
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel)
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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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On 11/13/2019 8:44 PM, Paul Compton via EV wrote:
> An small motorcycle and rider has roughly the same drag at 60mpg as a small car.

     This is the main problem with typical motorcycles. They are
basically a brick, aerodynamically. This is compounded by the lack of
space and load carrying ability for a decent battery pack. Very
difficult to make an electric bike with decent range.

Bill D.

>
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 05:02, evtlfp20 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
>> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>>
>> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
>> mile ?
>>
>> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>

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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
True but it probably pulls 300 amps during acceleration

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2019, at 11:01 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 40a x 72v = 2880 Watts of power.
> This is 2880 Wh (Watthour) of energy in an hour.
> In that hour you go 40 mi, so your efficiency is 2880/40 = 72 Wh/mi
> This is very low for an EV, but that is also due to low speed.
> At Freeway speed your consumption per mile will be much higher.
> My truck can achieve about 15kW at 60 MPH, which means 1/4 kWh/mi.
> Most EVs are capable of going 3-5 mi per kWh, which means an efficiency of
> between 200-333 Wh/mi. But this is typically spec'ed in mixed driving with
> freeway and city driving cycle. In city most EVs shine due to great
> efficiency at lower speeds, combined with regen.
> Cor.
>
>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 8:02 PM evtlfp20 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
>> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>>
>> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
>> mile ?
>>
>> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Harley-Davidson's fleet average fuel economy for 2018 was 44 mpg.

What car gets 44 mpg?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2019, at 3:33 AM, Bill Dube via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 11/13/2019 8:44 PM, Paul Compton via EV wrote:
>> An small motorcycle and rider has roughly the same drag at 60mpg as a small car.
>
>     This is the main problem with typical motorcycles. They are basically a brick, aerodynamically. This is compounded by the lack of space and load carrying ability for a decent battery pack. Very difficult to make an electric bike with decent range.
>
> Bill D.
>
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 05:02, evtlfp20 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
>>> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>>>
>>> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
>>> mile ?
>>>
>>> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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On 2019-11-13 7:06 a.m., paul dove via EV wrote:
> Harley-Davidson's fleet average fuel economy for 2018 was 44 mpg.
>
> What car gets 44 mpg?
Hybrids and diesels can easily get 44 mpg, the last diesel I had got 4.5 l/100km
about 52 US mpg.
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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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On 12 Nov 2019 at 21:45, evtlfp20 via EV wrote:

> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph, so whats my watts
> per mile ?

I don't know, how many horsepower per mile does your gas car use? :-\

Obviously horsepower per mile is a nonsense unit, and so is watts per mile
(watts and horsepower both measure power).  What you want is Watt HOURS per
mile.  

watts = volts * amps = 72 * 40 = 2880W at 40mph
A Watt-hour is defined as one watt expended for one hour.
Ride for one hour as described above, and you'll use 2880 watt hours to go
40 miles.  So your energy use for that ride in watt-hours per mile is 2880 /
40 == 72 Wh/mi.

Hope this helps.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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On 13 Nov 2019 at 6:06, paul dove via EV wrote:

> Harley-Davidson's fleet average fuel economy for 2018 was 44 mpg.
>
> What car gets 44 mpg?

2016 Toyota Prius, 54mpg city.

2015 Toyota Prius C (aka Yaris Hybrid), 53mpg city.

2000 Honda Insight, 61mpg highway.  

1995 Honda Civic VX, 52mpg highway.

1989 Honda Civic CRX HF, 62mpg highway.  

1986 Chevrolet Sprint, 53mpg highway.  

(BTW, that old Sprint weighed just 1500lb.  For obvious reasons, it made a
pretty decent EV conversion.  So did some of the Hondas.)

(I also think it's intriguing and entertaining that the 1989 2-seat Honda
CRX HF, with a more or less normal ICE, got better highway mpg than the
highly streamlined and hybridized 2-seat 2000 Insight of about the same
size.)

I expect that I could find more examples with a more exhaustive search, but  
I don't really see the point of comparing a motorcycle's mpg to a car's.  
They're totally different vehicles and are used totally differently.

For a more useful comparison,

https://www.liveabout.com/fuel-efficient-motorcycles-two-wheeled-2399396

has a list of ICE motorcycles that return from 63 to 85 mpg.

In the early 1960s, a "nifty, thrifty" Honda 50 got 225mpg.  You coudn't
really call that a motorcycle, though  It was more like a bike with a leaf
blower engine strapped to it.

To put this in even better perspective (and bring it back on topic), I've
seen an E-motorcycle -- can't recall which -- claiming something like 460
mpg-equivalent.  I don'l know how they computed that, or how valid it is,
but it beats 44mpg by better than ten to one.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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Re: increasing MC range, New EV, was watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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          Hi  Bill and All,                 As you know there is a solution to long range MCs and it is aerodynamics.    As the E Tracer, others have showed.                 By  turning the brick into a clean airflow you can double range at speed for about 15lbs of plastic in the form of a real aero fairing and most any E MC.                It is far cheaper, lighter than more batteries and amazes me EV MC companies,  people have put them on saving $1,000s in battery.              The only thing keeping me back from building a 200 mile range aero 2 wheel streamliner is 4-5 Tesla battery modules as my Volt modules are too heavy, take too much space, can't be used.               Though putting a full aero  body on my newest E Woody trike MC that does have the room for Volt modules and can put up to 300 miles worth, likely just 180 miles though.   Not only room for more batteries but enough to lay down, sleep in for when my back gives out.               I'm putting 2  K91 motors from a Crown Pallet Jack  in and chain driven to a golf cart transaxle with 1 to move the trike and the second  to tow an aero trailer  at 65mph long distance power.                The GC motor didn't have the power, top speed only 45mph and was too much unsprung weight giving a harsh ride.  By putting the motors on the 'firewall'  it gives me the gearing, power I need at less unsprung weight, more comfort.                My other news is just got a near free 26' Chrysler sailboat that a marina seized for non payment but no one bid.              I'm turning it into a solar boat to live on as I move to St Pete.  Luckily I already have lead batteries from a lead to lithium conversion I  did and some free solar panels, other things I'll have little money in it.             You can now buy a well founded liveaboard size sailboat in Florida ready to sail for under $3k and ones like mine that need work, much, much  less.                Many have bad motors ready to switch to E drive and if you anchor in a tidal current, can recharge your batteries with it.   Look on craigslist for them.                    Jerry Dycus                        
    On Wednesday, November 13, 2019, 09:33:22 AM UTC, Bill Dube via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:  
 
 On 11/13/2019 8:44 PM, Paul Compton via EV wrote:
> An small motorcycle and rider has roughly the same drag at 60mpg as a small car.

     This is the main problem with typical motorcycles. They are
basically a brick, aerodynamically. This is compounded by the lack of
space and load carrying ability for a decent battery pack. Very
difficult to make an electric bike with decent range.

Bill D.

>
> On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 05:02, evtlfp20 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
>> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>>
>> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
>> mile ?
>>
>> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>>
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>

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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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Those are all hybrids .... you would need to compare them to a hybrid motorcycle

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2019, at 8:47 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 13 Nov 2019 at 6:06, paul dove via EV wrote:
>
>> Harley-Davidson's fleet average fuel economy for 2018 was 44 mpg.
>>
>> What car gets 44 mpg?
>
> 2016 Toyota Prius, 54mpg city.
>
> 2015 Toyota Prius C (aka Yaris Hybrid), 53mpg city.
>
> 2000 Honda Insight, 61mpg highway.  
>
> 1995 Honda Civic VX, 52mpg highway.
>
> 1989 Honda Civic CRX HF, 62mpg highway.  
>
> 1986 Chevrolet Sprint, 53mpg highway.  
>
> (BTW, that old Sprint weighed just 1500lb.  For obvious reasons, it made a
> pretty decent EV conversion.  So did some of the Hondas.)
>
> (I also think it's intriguing and entertaining that the 1989 2-seat Honda
> CRX HF, with a more or less normal ICE, got better highway mpg than the
> highly streamlined and hybridized 2-seat 2000 Insight of about the same
> size.)
>
> I expect that I could find more examples with a more exhaustive search, but  
> I don't really see the point of comparing a motorcycle's mpg to a car's.  
> They're totally different vehicles and are used totally differently.
>
> For a more useful comparison,
>
> https://www.liveabout.com/fuel-efficient-motorcycles-two-wheeled-2399396
>
> has a list of ICE motorcycles that return from 63 to 85 mpg.
>
> In the early 1960s, a "nifty, thrifty" Honda 50 got 225mpg.  You coudn't
> really call that a motorcycle, though  It was more like a bike with a leaf
> blower engine strapped to it.
>
> To put this in even better perspective (and bring it back on topic), I've
> seen an E-motorcycle -- can't recall which -- claiming something like 460
> mpg-equivalent.  I don'l know how they computed that, or how valid it is,
> but it beats 44mpg by better than ten to one.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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Re: watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

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On 14 Nov 2019 at 5:50, paul dove via EV wrote:

> Those are all hybrids .... you would need to compare them to a hybrid
> motorcycle

No, they're not all hybrds.  The Honda Civic VX (52mpg), Honda Civic CRX HF
(62mpg), and Chevrolet Sprint (53mpg) are all conventional ICEVs.  The
Sprint even has a carburetor!  

There are probably dozens more totally conventional ICEVs that have gotten
44mpg and more.  But they're no longer being made.  Modern ICEVs are grossly
overpowered, and much less efficient than they could and should be.  

The reason for that is that most auto buyers

(1) no longer care about efficiency;

(2) insist on land-yacht-style luxuries that add weight and burn up energy;

(3) want vehicles big enough to haul around a literal ton of stuff; even
though they're usually driven empty; and

(4) have been convinced by ads that they need to be able to accelerate to
60mph in less than 10 seconds.

Besides, you missed my two main points from later in the post, and might
again.  Maybe you should try using something with a more readable screen
than an Iphone. :-)

(1) Comparing cars and motorcycles isn't all that useful, because they're
such different vehicles and are used so differently.  

(2) The mpg-equivalent of e-motorcycles vs conventional MCs is a more useful
comparison, and at about 460mpg-equivalent, at least one e-motorcycle
outdoes Harley's 44mpg by more than 10 to 1.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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reconditioning prius cells

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  I appreaers prius pack has no bms circut, so on an aged pack can I use
my  i charger 306b in nicad intilze  mode  to help revive it ? if it has
not gone belew 1.5 or some thing like that ?
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