EVangelism

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EVangelism

Seth Rothenberg
Greetings,

It's been a while since I read the list,
but I am getting back to my car soon.
(During construction, I lost my parking
pad and shed where I worked on the car;
now it is a carport and a workshop :-)

But my reason for touching base is that
I am going to be interviewed on the topic
of Electric and hybrid cars.

The interviewer tipped her hand,
that she is researching whether the
total environmental impact is MORE
for a hybrid.   I find that very hard to believe.

If anyone has any references on this
topic, I would be grateful.

The BEST way to reach me is at
my "other" email: [hidden email]

Thanks alot
Seth

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Re: EVangelism

Lee Hart
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
> I am going to be interviewed on the topic
> of Electric and hybrid cars.
> The interviewer tipped her hand,
> that she is researching whether the
> total environmental impact is MORE
> for a hybrid.   I find that very hard to believe.
>
> If anyone has any references on this
> topic, I would be grateful.

Be warned that when interviewers have a preconceived notion, they will
ignore all facts that contradict it, and exaggerate anything (fact or
fiction) that supports it.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: EVangelism

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by Seth Rothenberg
I wouldn't respond to a "journalist" who telegraphed his or her pre-
determined conclusions.  Nor for that matter to one who worked for a "news"
organization known to be shilling for some particular viewpoint.  

To do so is a waste of time.  If you present evidence contrary to the
desired conclusion, you'll be ignored - or, worse, your words will be
twisted to suit the hack's aims.

Better to spend your time in the garage building a real world EV that we all
know works, and has positive benefits for you and others.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: EVangelism

Gary Krysztopik-2
In reply to this post by Seth Rothenberg
Go to pluginamerica.org

http://www.pluginamerica.org/faq/general-question

http://images.pluginamerica.org/EmissionsSummary.pdf

they have a ton of info including a summary of 30 reports on vehicle
emissions.  Be sure to reference the site so people could fact check.

Good luck!

Gary Krysztopik
ZWheelz, LLC - www.ZWheelz.com
Alamo City Electric Auto Association - www.aceaa.org
blog - http://voices.mysanantonio.com/drive_electric_san_antonio/
San Antonio, TX


On 11/21/2011 10:21 AM, Seth Rothenberg wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> It's been a while since I read the list,
> but I am getting back to my car soon.
> (During construction, I lost my parking
> pad and shed where I worked on the car;
> now it is a carport and a workshop :-)
>
> But my reason for touching base is that
> I am going to be interviewed on the topic
> of Electric and hybrid cars.
>
> The interviewer tipped her hand,
> that she is researching whether the
> total environmental impact is MORE
> for a hybrid.   I find that very hard to believe.
>
> If anyone has any references on this
> topic, I would be grateful.
>
> The BEST way to reach me is at
> my "other" email: [hidden email]
>
> Thanks alot
> Seth
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: EVangelism

brucedp5
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Seth Rothenberg

No, a hybrid of any kind has more of an environmental impact than an
EV when you include all aspects. Each vehicle type EV, pih, hev, and
ice has its advantages and disadvantages. The consumer is most likely
to consider the environmental impact less important than costs during
its lifetime. That brings the list down to either an EV or a pih.

Which is better EV or pih? It depends ...

This is where my newswire posting can come in handy (see Bruce's crap
can be useful).

Reading all my EVLN: newswire posts
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date

might be overwhelming, so you may want to focus on the hybrid posts
http://evdl.org/archive/#nabble%2Btemplate%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Duser_nodes%26user%3D204231

and the more important EV newswire posts on users brucedp
http://evdl.org/archive/#nabble%2Btemplate%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Duser_nodes%26user%3D160789

and the second tier ones on brucedp5
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=user_nodes&user=212742

For a good snap shot, a three month window should give you a good
idea. I would not bother going back any further than that as that
would be just history to the reporter.

Yes, I have seen that newswire trend to push for pih purchases rather
than EV. Currently I am seeing a 10 to 1 ratio of pushing hybrids
(hev or pih) to EVs are OK.

IMO this is another funded push  to continue to burn petrol and keep
the oil addiction without the public being properly informed how to
truly look at both their driving 'needs' and what is available on
the market.

The choice is up to the consumer, but many of the public only
'parrot' (repeat) what they are told by the media outlets that are
paid to release. Writers may be given a topic to do a story on, but
it is the media's Editor that decides and adjusts stories to fit
what the business paying for the piece wants.

...
A recent example: at a new EVSE install local to me, I took a little
time to talk to the adults that use the facility it was installed at
(a community center for family use).

The young adults knew of the EVSE and EVs, but were too focused on
being cool and getting tight to spend any time talking to an ol'
duffer.

A young mother with her newborn slung on her chest knew about them
because she had read the EV signage, and was coo-ing to her baby
that its' world would be a better place because of EV use.

And then there was the soccer coach in his late forties, sitting on
the back of his five year old pick up truck with the bed lid lifted
up exposing the stowed gear. Him and his buddies were nice enough to
not cut me off, but he did repeat (parrot) what he had read or heard
from the media (that plug-in vehicles had too high an up front cost
thus too expensive, did not have the range, and were too untested to
fit anyone's needs). Pointing to the free EV charging did not impact
him as he did not equate free EV charging to not having to pay for
gas.

If you cut through all the pre-programing he had been fed, was there
a vehicle that fit his needs? Since he was staunch family type
(undoubtedly by volunteering to be the sports coach on his evenings)
a pih truck or large SUV would be what he would be interested in. But
since there were few of these currently on the market, and most
importantly, none of his peers (the ol' let the other guy find a
cheaper/better way) was driving his family in these new fangled
vehicles, he would not even bother to consider them (what worked for,
works for me thinking).

All that will change soon, as large pih vehicles will entering the
market. Once others have proven it is the way-to-go, this coach might
consider a purchase of one in a few years when his wife complains that
his beloved ol' truck needs replacing (its ugly dear, and I won't be
caught dead in it).
...

Lee and David make good points, so leaving the reporter with a concise
blurb would be what I would do, so that the EV/pih communities at
least have some input:

The public needs to know what their needs are and see if the new
vehicle technology fits those needs for at least the next 5+ years.

They also need to tap into all the free information of EV drivers by
reading the forums of actual driver experiences. That last bit is the
best tool for dispelling new buyer fears by asking the questions from
real drivers. Dealer reps are not an information source, real drivers
are (they will tell you like it is).

Also, knowing of all the free public EVSE in their area by exploring
EV finder sites, like http://recargo.com/search


So, there is no quick answer as to which is better, EV or pih. It
depends on the consumer's needs. De-programing them to let them
discover what their real driving needs are, and then letting them make
up their own minds, ... priceless.



brucedp5@operamail.com
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Re: EVangelism

Danpatgal
In reply to this post by Seth Rothenberg
I recommend you get William Kemp's book, "Zero Carbon Car" or read some online comments he has made.  He details full lifecycle costs of vehicles and goes into a lot of detail on efficient modes of transport, ultimately deciding to build a plug-in hybrid (from a Mazda Miata) that is net zero carbon AND gives the range and utility drivers in North America expect.  

I love my EV and love the tips, tricks, science, and shop-talk on this site.  But the first two responses to your question (with very due huge respect to Lee and David) were somewhat troubling: talking to a journalist with a preconception is pointless.  We shouldn't talk to, even perhaps already misguided, journalists?   EVs need more coverage, not less.  And we can use those moments to teach the journalist (and those who listen to them) to change their preconception.  

I think we need to be honest with the limitations that EVs have and explain how our society/government still favors the ICE because of external costs not born, primarily, by gasoline production (wars/pollution).  We can then promote how EVs are more efficient, are easily charged up, have less maintenance costs, and more fun to drive.  If we over promise (or hide the "problems" EVs have) and under-deliver, we're always creating disappointment in the end.

Finally, I'm surprised David didn't say it, but this site is concerned primarily with electric vehicles, not hybrids.  I think a very efficient gas car CAN do better than a hybrid, which is why I'm an EVangelist, not a Hybridangelist.  EVs do better (see Chip Gribben's analysis here: http://www.evdl.org/docs/powerplant.pdf), but with plug-in hybrids you can get close to an EV efficiency and still have longer range; I see that as a good compromise going forward for American drivers.

Good luck with whatever information you can get for the interview.
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Negative NPR Story

Bill Dennis
In reply to this post by brucedp5
I heard a story on NPR this morning that was pretty negative on EVs:  http://www.npr.org/2011/11/21/142464818/can-electric-cars-help-automakers-reach-55-mpg

Here are some excerpts:
 1) Regarding the Leaf:  "What Brockman doesn't say is you're only going to reach the 100-mile range on cool spring days doing about 40 mph, with the air conditioning off and the car going downhill."

 2) "Once people actually find out about the cars, they like them even less."

 3) "The problem is, the chances of there being a 500-mile range electric car, at this point, it seems pretty unlikely. You can go to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mich., and see electric cars. To me, that's not great progress."

Bill

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Re: EVangelism

Peter Gabrielsson
In reply to this post by Seth Rothenberg
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/08/notter-20100810.html#more

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Seth Rothenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> It's been a while since I read the list,
> but I am getting back to my car soon.
> (During construction, I lost my parking
> pad and shed where I worked on the car;
> now it is a carport and a workshop :-)
>
> But my reason for touching base is that
> I am going to be interviewed on the topic
> of Electric and hybrid cars.
>
> The interviewer tipped her hand,
> that she is researching whether the
> total environmental impact is MORE
> for a hybrid.   I find that very hard to believe.
>
> If anyone has any references on this
> topic, I would be grateful.
>
> The BEST way to reach me is at
> my "other" email: [hidden email]
>
> Thanks alot
> Seth
>
> _______________________________________________
> | Moratorium on drag racing discussion is in effect.
> | Please take those discussions elsewhere.  Thanks.
> |
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | CONFIGURE: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

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Re: Negative NPR Story

Mark Grasser
In reply to this post by Bill Dennis
I heard it also. It was pretty sad. They came into it not liking it. Why
can't they come to grips with the fact that if your daily commute is less
that the per charge distance that your EV will then be your PRIMARY vehicle?

Mark Grasser
Balyntec Products
>From my shop PC


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of WILLIAM DENNIS Owner
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:36 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Negative NPR Story

I heard a story on NPR this morning that was pretty negative on EVs:
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/21/142464818/can-electric-cars-help-automakers-re
ach-55-mpg

Here are some excerpts:
 1) Regarding the Leaf:  "What Brockman doesn't say is you're only going to
reach the 100-mile range on cool spring days doing about 40 mph, with the
air conditioning off and the car going downhill."

 2) "Once people actually find out about the cars, they like them even
less."

 3) "The problem is, the chances of there being a 500-mile range electric
car, at this point, it seems pretty unlikely. You can go to the Henry Ford
Museum in Dearborn, Mich., and see electric cars. To me, that's not great
progress."

Bill

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Re: EVangelism

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Danpatgal
Danpatgal wrote:
> I love my EV and love the tips, tricks, science, and shop-talk on this site.
> But the first two responses to your question (with very due huge respect to
> Lee and David) were somewhat troubling: talking to a journalist with a
> preconception is pointless.  We shouldn't talk to, even perhaps already
> misguided, journalists?   EVs need more coverage, not less.  And we can use
> those moments to teach the journalist (and those who listen to them) to
> change their preconception.

If you have the charisma to charm a journalist out of their preconceived
notions, by all means *do it*! Some people can. For example, I've seen
John Wayland and Rick Woodbury in action. They can impress an
interviewer into becoming their staunchest supporter.

They know how the interviewers think, and know how to respond to
"loaded" questions that are designed to trap the average person into
saying something that makes a great sound bite but doesn't reflect the
full situation. They'll control the conversation and steer the topics;
and not let the interviewer do it. For instance:

Interviewer: "How much did it cost?"
Naive EV'er: "I spent about $20,000 on it. It was way more than the
                same car costs as an ICE, but it was worth it to me.
Pro EV'er: It's been fantastic! I haven't spent a cent on gas,
                and "fill the tank" on my EV for a couple dollars
                worth of electricity.

Interviewer" "What kind of range do you get?"
Naive EV'er: "Oh, about 50 miles on a charge. More if I drive slow."
Pro EV'er: "It goes just as far as I drove my gas car every day!
                I only use my gas car for long trips, maybe once a
                month."

See what's happening? The "Pro" isn't lying, but he's answering the
questions he wants to answer; not the ones being asked. The "Pro" is
running the interview, not the reporter.

The reporter wants a performance; so you'd better be a good actor, with
well rehearsed lines.

*I* can't do it. When someone sticks a microphone in my face, I get
flustered and am likely to forget my own birthday. If they ask a
question, I'll answer it with the bald truth, or whatever comes to the
top of my head. I'll come across as a nut.

> I think we need to be honest with the limitations that EVs have and explain
> how our society/government still favors the ICE because of external costs
> not born, primarily, by gasoline production (wars/pollution).  We can then
> promote how EVs are more efficient, are easily charged up, have less
> maintenance costs, and more fun to drive.  If we over promise (or hide the
> "problems" EVs have) and under-deliver, we're always creating disappointment
> in the end.

I think you're wrong. Honesty is not what they want. They want
entertainment. Tell them something interesting and entertaining. Sound
bites. Memorable photos. Give 'em a show!

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: Negative NPR Story

Bill Dube
In reply to this post by Mark Grasser
It was a story about how stressful it is to drive an EV told by a
reporter that had no personal experience driving an EV.

Somewhat like a story about how upsetting air travel is, told by a
reporter than had never actually flown on an airplane.

Bill D.

At 11:50 AM 11/21/2011, you wrote:

>I heard it also. It was pretty sad. They came into it not liking it. Why
>can't they come to grips with the fact that if your daily commute is less
>that the per charge distance that your EV will then be your PRIMARY vehicle?
>
>Mark Grasser
>Balyntec Products
> >From my shop PC
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
>Of WILLIAM DENNIS Owner
>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:36 PM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>Subject: [EVDL] Negative NPR Story
>
>I heard a story on NPR this morning that was pretty negative on EVs:
>http://www.npr.org/2011/11/21/142464818/can-electric-cars-help-automakers-re
>ach-55-mpg
>
>Here are some excerpts:
>  1) Regarding the Leaf:  "What Brockman doesn't say is you're only going to
>reach the 100-mile range on cool spring days doing about 40 mph, with the
>air conditioning off and the car going downhill."
>
>  2) "Once people actually find out about the cars, they like them even
>less."
>
>  3) "The problem is, the chances of there being a 500-mile range electric
>car, at this point, it seems pretty unlikely. You can go to the Henry Ford
>Museum in Dearborn, Mich., and see electric cars. To me, that's not great
>progress."
>
>Bill
>
>_______________________________________________
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>
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Re: EVangelism

Danpatgal
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Lee Hart wrote
The "Pro" isn't lying, but he's answering the
questions he wants to answer; not the ones being asked. The "Pro" is
running the interview, not the reporter.

I think you're wrong. Honesty is not what they want. They want
entertainment. Tell them something interesting and entertaining. Sound
bites. Memorable photos. Give 'em a show!
Hi Lee - I agree, you must be prepared to do a "Pro" interview.   If you're afraid you're going to make EVs sound like a fringe, difficult, net losing proposition then by all means, don't do it. Your second post is clear in this regard.  Your original reply sounded a little bit like EV's have this huge problem to hide.  

Still, I think if we're not honest about some of the disadvantages we risk overpromising and underdelivering and you'll get more people who once they ...

WILLIAM DENNIS Owner wrote
" ... actually find out about the cars, they like them even less."
This is no way to convert people.  I'd rather have 10 true believers than 50 kind 'of believers who will later be your worst enemy because you used well-intentioned, but perhaps misleading, promotional techniques.

Honestly, our energy policy in the US is stranger than fiction and provides a good enough "show".  We have got to make people aware that the costs to drive a gasoline car are, well to wheels, way more than the comparable energy to drive an EV.  Many of the costs for gasoline are paid through other taxes (for our military), health impacts, and environmental degradation that the true costs or using gasoline are not reflected in the price (I've seen estimates in the $10/gal with these other costs included).  This is a huge advantage of EVs over ICEs.

Not every EV driver cares about this aspect of EVs, but I guess most do.  And in an interview I think the details about energy efficiency, foreign policy, and climate change (if you're so inclined) should be made loud and clear.  This can be a show - just mention the servicemen (myself included) sent to the Middle East or Afghanistan for oil, many never to return.  Or the air pollution caused by ICE vehicles (my county in Central PA is one of the worst - yet I keep cycling).  These can be a show - should be the show.  We need to draw these connections and see the big picture of our actions.
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Re: EVangelism

Seth Rothenberg
Thanks for all the great answers.
I think I do OK in front of a microphone,
even when they cut like crazy.

For those who have not seen "my" video...
www.tinyurl.com/leafgas
("leave gas" in a European accent :-)

Of course, the interviewers were being
paid to look for EV supporting footage.

The interviewer in the upcoming case
is a grad student doing a research paper.

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Re: Negative NPR Story

Jay Donnaway
In reply to this post by Bill Dennis

My response to NPR....

Rarely do I hear a story on NPR that displays such clearly (and inaccurately) preconceived notions.  One would think that a Detroit-based automotive reporter might have actually driven the subject vehicle before parroting such buzzkills as 'range anxiety" and "Once people actually find out about the cars, they like them even less.".  At least the electric cars constantly display a reasonably accurate estimate of remaining range, rather than offering no more guidance than a needle pointing in the general vicinity of "E".
Yes,  EV drivers must take a moment to plan out their day's journey.  If they fail to plan accordingly, the worst case is that just about any building in the country can provide fuel at a minimum rate of 7 miles per hour.  (1800 watts from a 15 amp, 120V circuit will put enough charge to cover 7 miles at 250 watt-hours per mile into an average electric car, for each hour of charging).  Yes, I have failed to make it home twice in my experimental, homebuilt electric car that lacks the advanced instrumentation of modern EVs.  Both times I made a  new friend while borrowing a few American-made electrons from their wall for less than 30 minutes.  This is more pleasant a situation than any traffic jam I've ever been in, and the smooth, silent electric torque that lets my tree-hugging antique econobox leap away from stoplights makes it all worthwhile.

Jay Donnaway
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com

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Re: Negative NPR Story

Sean Korb
If you "plan" your commute by plugging in, I don't see a problem.

sean

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Jay Donnaway <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> My response to NPR....
>
> Rarely do I hear a story on NPR that displays such clearly (and inaccurately) preconceived notions.  One would think that a Detroit-based automotive reporter might have actually driven the subject vehicle before parroting such buzzkills as 'range anxiety" and "Once people actually find out about the cars, they like them even less.".  At least the electric cars constantly display a reasonably accurate estimate of remaining range, rather than offering no more guidance than a needle pointing in the general vicinity of "E".
> Yes,  EV drivers must take a moment to plan out their day's journey.  If they fail to plan accordingly, the worst case is that just about any building in the country can provide fuel at a minimum rate of 7 miles per hour.  (1800 watts from a 15 amp, 120V circuit will put enough charge to cover 7 miles at 250 watt-hours per mile into an average electric car, for each hour of charging).  Yes, I have failed to make it home twice in my experimental, homebuilt electric car that lacks the advanced instrumentation of modern EVs.  Both times I made a  new friend while borrowing a few American-made electrons from their wall for less than 30 minutes.  This is more pleasant a situation than any traffic jam I've ever been in, and the smooth, silent electric torque that lets my tree-hugging antique econobox leap away from stoplights makes it all worthwhile.
>
> Jay Donnaway
> www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
>
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--
Sean Korb [hidden email] http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso

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Re: Negative NPR Story

Zeke Yewdall
In reply to this post by Bill Dennis
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:36 AM, WILLIAM DENNIS Owner <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  3) "The problem is, the chances of there being a 500-mile range electric car, at this point, it seems pretty unlikely. You can go to the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Mich., and see electric cars. To me, that's not great progress."


"The problem is, the chances of there being a 80mpg ICE, at this point
it seems pretty unlikely.  You can go to the Henry Ford Museum in
Dearborn, Mich., and see ICE cars.   To me, that's not great progress.

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Re: Negative NPR Story

Peri Hartman
And, you could have said about computers in 1975, "You can go to the museum
and see the ENIAC; microcomputers are just a toy and chances of there being
a 1 megaflop micro seems pretty unlikely".

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: 22 November, 2011 6:13 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Negative NPR Story

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:36 AM, WILLIAM DENNIS Owner <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  3) "The problem is, the chances of there being a 500-mile range electric
car, at this point, it seems pretty unlikely. You can go to the Henry Ford
Museum in Dearborn, Mich., and see electric cars. To me, that's not great
progress."


"The problem is, the chances of there being a 80mpg ICE, at this point it
seems pretty unlikely.  You can go to the Henry Ford Museum in
Dearborn, Mich., and see ICE cars.   To me, that's not great progress.

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Re: Negative NPR Story

Michael Clark
In reply to this post by Bill Dennis
People will not change their driving habits to be able to get the full
benefit of EVs the ev will have to be built for the average joe or the ev
will die again. The only way to change average joe is to FORCE him... ie
dropping the national speed limit to 55 and states were forced to do that
by threat of being cut off from highway funds.
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Re: Negative NPR Story

Cal Frye
On 11/22/11 4:02 PM, Michael Clark wrote:
> People will not change their driving habits to be able to get the full
> benefit of EVs the ev will have to be built for the average joe or the ev
> will die again. The only way to change average joe is to FORCE him... ie
> dropping the national speed limit to 55 and states were forced to do that
> by threat of being cut off from highway funds.

And that, of course, is a headache the Democrats don't need to take on,
and the Republicans won't. So likely the real forcing factor will be
another increase in gasoline prices...

--
Regards,
-- Cal Frye, www.calfrye.com/MyGEM.html

"Fascism is capitalism plus murder." --Upton Sinclair, Presidential
Agent II (1944).

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Re: Negative NPR Story

Mike Willmon
In reply to this post by Michael Clark
You are right Michael.  There are some people that will continue to pay $5,
$10... $20 per gallon of gasoline to make their 20 to 50 mile daily
commutes.  But I think many people are reasonable in the use of their
money.  Meaning that when the costs associated with buying gasoline becomes
too high, then the behavior will change easily.

I think it would be a good exercise in peoples honesty with themselves to
determine what gas would have to cost for them to switch to an electric
car.  Its not out of line to think that people would consider moving closer
to work so they could take advantage of electric vehicles with limited
range.  In fact people do just that even to save money and continue driving
their gas car.  Why is it unreasonable to think people don't like saving
money.  I think many of these reporters that poo-poo electrics would drive
one too when gas prices start eating away their measly paycheck for writing
bogus stories.

Mike

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Michael Clark
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> People will not change their driving habits to be able to get the full
> benefit of EVs the ev will have to be built for the average joe or the ev
> will die again. The only way to change average joe is to FORCE him... ie
> dropping the national speed limit to 55 and states were forced to do that
> by threat of being cut off from highway funds.
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