Elcon Chargers

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Elcon Chargers

Roger Heuckeroth
Anybody have experience (positive or negative) with Elcon chargers?




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Re: Elcon Chargers

shred
I have two (current sharing) prototypes from zivan in Sacramento, CA I've been using for about 10 months without any problems. I bought them used and they had about 8 months on them before I got them.
I think they are isolated as well.
I used to get shocked when I was standing on concrete with no shoes on & my car was pluged in with my old charger. But not anymore. Also I have them set up so I can charge from either 120 or 240 vac.
They put out 7 amps each at 120 volt input and double that pluged into 240.
So I'm charging at 28 amps when pluged into 240 VAC.
My car is a 120 volt system.
Neal
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Re: Elcon Chargers

Roger Heuckeroth

On Sep 28, 2010, at 3:13 PM, shred wrote:

>
> I have two (current sharing) prototypes from zivan in Sacramento, CA  
> I've
> been using for about 10 months without any problems. I bought them  
> used and
> they had about 8 months on them before I got them.
> I think they are isolated as well.
> I used to get shocked when I was standing on concrete with no shoes  
> on & my
> car was pluged in with my old charger. But not anymore. Also I have  
> them set
> up so I can charge from either 120 or 240 vac.
> They put out 7 amps each at 120 volt input and double that pluged  
> into 240.
> So I'm charging at 28 amps when pluged into 240 VAC.
> My car is a 120 volt system.
> Neal

Are these Elcon or Zivan?  What model # are they?


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Re: Elcon Chargers

shred
If I understand correctly Zivan in Sac had these chargers developed for them to sell.
They have no name on them. They have stickers as far as input voltage & current draw.
They are Elcon but they are prototypes of the 1500W HF/PFC and have changed some since.
I have not tried to adjust the charging curve as they were set up for 100 NiMH cells which is what I’m running.. They are almost silent during operation which is a big plus for me. I do wish they were easy to adjust like my Russco was for both charging current and finish voltage though.
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Re: Elcon Chargers

Matt Lacey
In reply to this post by Roger Heuckeroth
I am really pleased with my elcon 1500W charger.

I bought mine from here:
www.evpower.com.au

The charger being able to take a signal directly from the BMS modules
eliminated the need for a master unit.

Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:59 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Elcon Chargers


> Anybody have experience (positive or negative) with Elcon chargers?
>
>
>
>
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Re: Elcon Chargers

Willie McKemie
In reply to this post by Roger Heuckeroth
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 02:59:10PM -0400, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> Anybody have experience (positive or negative) with Elcon chargers?

I have an Elcon 1500w charging 45 LFP cells.  It hasn't quit working,
my Zivan has.  Pluses are:
1) charges from both 110vac and 220vac
2) very quiet, no fan
3) cheap

They advertise "adjustable profiles" and "field programmable".  Horse
hockey.  Maybe in China.

I have not found a seller that will commit to supply a profile that
charges until x volts (~160v for 45 cells), then cuts back to about 1/2
amp up to y volts (~166v for 45 cells), then cut off.  My charger works
fine and I'm happy with it but I must rely on my BMS to cut it off when
a cell goes high.  Just like my Zivan.

I have resorted to using 4 small 48v power supplies in series as a
"balancing charger".  I use it once a week or once a month; it works
well.  Very gently eventually brings all cells up to 3.55-3.6 v.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  16 days 12 hours 45 minutes

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Re: Elcon Chargers

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by Roger Heuckeroth
I have an Elcon 2000+ in my Honda.  It is also charging 45 Thundersky cells.
It seems to be working fine.  It autoswitches between 110 and 220V, but I
haven't tried the 220V yet.  I will soon.

It is very quiet.  Mine does have a fan but it is quiet enough you can't
really hear it.  I hear the fan will blow harder when it is running at 220V.

Mine really abuses a 15A 110V circuit, though.  If the circuit is holding at
the high side of the voltage, it will pull just under 15A.  If the circuit
voltage droops, the charger will compensate by pulling more current.  I've
seen mine at 16A when voltage was low.  It really needs a 20A circuit.

I think the current draw might be adjustable, but I think it can only be
adjusted by sending it in.

It also has thermal protection so it will slow the rate of charging if it
starts to get too hot.

I can't say anything about life yet.  I've been using mine daily for 2
months, but I got it used with the conversion.  I don't think it was used
much before that.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Roger Heuckeroth
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:59 PM
To: [hidden email] Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Elcon Chargers

Anybody have experience (positive or negative) with Elcon chargers?




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Re: Elcon Chargers

Brian Pikkula
In reply to this post by Matt Lacey
>The charger being able to take a signal directly from the BMS modules
eliminated the need for a master unit.

Does this mean that one could input a signal to the charger to have it
scale back the charge and draw less from the AC source?  I'm wondering
if this could be used to reduce the current draw from the wall so that
breakers at my work or a friend's house won't trip with a 15A AC draw.

Or does the BMS signal just turn it off?

What kind of signal does the Elcon expect from the BMS?

Thanks,
Brian



On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 3:09 PM, matt lacey <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am really pleased with my elcon 1500W charger.
>
> I bought mine from here:
> www.evpower.com.au
>
> The charger being able to take a signal directly from the BMS modules
> eliminated the need for a master unit.
>
> Matt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:59 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Elcon Chargers
>
>
>> Anybody have experience (positive or negative) with Elcon chargers?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.

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Re: Elcon Chargers

Matt Lacey
Hi Brian,

> Does this mean that one could input a signal to the charger to have it
> scale back the charge and draw less from the AC source?  I'm wondering
> if this could be used to reduce the current draw from the wall so that
> breakers at my work or a friend's house won't trip with a 15A AC draw.

My one doesn't have that functionality, though you could ask them to make
one with an adjustable current limit.


> Or does the BMS signal just turn it off?
It does, the charger is either off, or following the charge profile


> What kind of signal does the Elcon expect from the BMS?

the signal is an on/off   low/high resistance circuit.

so the modules are low resistance when all is well, and high resistance when
something is wrong.
all modules are in series and connected to the charger.

The charger when it is on applies a low voltage to the circuit, and measures
current draw.

Matt


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Pikkula" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Elcon Chargers


> >The charger being able to take a signal directly from the BMS modules
> eliminated the need for a master unit.
>
> Does this mean that one could input a signal to the charger to have it
> scale back the charge and draw less from the AC source?  I'm wondering
> if this could be used to reduce the current draw from the wall so that
> breakers at my work or a friend's house won't trip with a 15A AC draw.
>
> Or does the BMS signal just turn it off?
>
> What kind of signal does the Elcon expect from the BMS?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 3:09 PM, matt lacey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I am really pleased with my elcon 1500W charger.
>>
>> I bought mine from here:
>> www.evpower.com.au
>>
>> The charger being able to take a signal directly from the BMS modules
>> eliminated the need for a master unit.
>>
>> Matt
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:59 AM
>> Subject: [EVDL] Elcon Chargers
>>
>>
>>> Anybody have experience (positive or negative) with Elcon chargers?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3163 - Release Date: 09/28/10
>> 01:56:00
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
> _______________________________________________
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3165 - Release Date: 09/29/10
01:41:00

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Re: Elcon Chargers

Willie McKemie
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 03:08:08PM +0800, matt lacey wrote:

>
> > Or does the BMS signal just turn it off?
> It does, the charger is either off, or following the charge profile
>
>
> > What kind of signal does the Elcon expect from the BMS?
>
> the signal is an on/off   low/high resistance circuit.
>
> so the modules are low resistance when all is well, and high resistance when
> something is wrong.
> all modules are in series and connected to the charger.
>
> The charger when it is on applies a low voltage to the circuit, and measures
> current draw.

I had forgotten about the trouble those two wires (coming out of the
Elcon) caused me.  I thought the charger was DOA.  Finally figured I
should just twist those two wires together.  Another negative on the
Elcon:  Extremely poor documentation.

Using the high voltage signal on your cell modules to turn off the
charger, doesn't that preclude use as a low voltage alarm?

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  17 days  3 hours 17 minutes

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Re: Elcon Chargers

Matt Lacey
> I had forgotten about the trouble those two wires (coming out of the
> Elcon) caused me.  I thought the charger was DOA.  Finally figured I
> should just twist those two wires together.  Another negative on the
> Elcon:  Extremely poor documentation.

Haha, yup,
the forums are a handy replacement though :)

btw, there has been some work working out how to make the elcons work on a
CAN bus:


> Using the high voltage signal on your cell modules to turn off the
> charger, doesn't that preclude use as a low voltage alarm?

In theory, not really, the charger only puts a small signal when its
actually on.
theres a fairly high value resistor inside the charger, so it doesn't matter
so much if you wire a low voltage sense in parrallel.

in practice, I haven't tried it.
My pack is in a motorbike, which I have yet to find an elegant way to do
cell level low voltage cutout.

atm i'm just using the BMS to prevent overcharge, and an Ah counter to not
go past 80%dod.

fortunately im the only one who ever rides my bike, so i don't have to make
it all that idiot proof.

Matt



----- Original Message -----
From: "Willie McKemie" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Elcon Chargers


> On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 03:08:08PM +0800, matt lacey wrote:
>>
>> > Or does the BMS signal just turn it off?
>> It does, the charger is either off, or following the charge profile
>>
>>
>> > What kind of signal does the Elcon expect from the BMS?
>>
>> the signal is an on/off   low/high resistance circuit.
>>
>> so the modules are low resistance when all is well, and high resistance
>> when
>> something is wrong.
>> all modules are in series and connected to the charger.
>>
>> The charger when it is on applies a low voltage to the circuit, and
>> measures
>> current draw.
>
> I had forgotten about the trouble those two wires (coming out of the
> Elcon) caused me.  I thought the charger was DOA.  Finally figured I
> should just twist those two wires together.  Another negative on the
> Elcon:  Extremely poor documentation.
>
> Using the high voltage signal on your cell modules to turn off the
> charger, doesn't that preclude use as a low voltage alarm?
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  17 days  3 hours 17 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3165 - Release Date: 09/29/10
01:41:00

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Re: Elcon Chargers

Rick Beebe
matt lacey wrote:

>> I had forgotten about the trouble those two wires (coming out of the
>> Elcon) caused me.  I thought the charger was DOA.  Finally figured I
>> should just twist those two wires together.  Another negative on the
>> Elcon:  Extremely poor documentation.
>
> Haha, yup,
> the forums are a handy replacement though :)
>
> btw, there has been some work working out how to make the elcons work on a
> CAN bus:

Back in March, Davide posted a link to some CAN documentation for it:

> This page has the correct specs on the ElCon Charger CAN format (unlike the
> spec sheet issued by ElCon).
> http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/controller_can_specs.php#ElCon_messages

--Rick

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Re: Elcon Chargers

Chuck Hursch-2
Rick Beebe wrote:

> matt lacey wrote:
>>> I had forgotten about the trouble those two wires (coming out of the
>>> Elcon) caused me.  I thought the charger was DOA.  Finally figured I
>>> should just twist those two wires together.  Another negative on the
>>> Elcon:  Extremely poor documentation.
>> Haha, yup,
>> the forums are a handy replacement though :)
>>
>> btw, there has been some work working out how to make the elcons work on a
>> CAN bus:
>
> Back in March, Davide posted a link to some CAN documentation for it:
>
>> This page has the correct specs on the ElCon Charger CAN format (unlike the
>> spec sheet issued by ElCon).
>> http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/controller_can_specs.php#ElCon_messages
>
> --Rick

Just where can one get info (like an owner's manual and options)?  Elcon
forum?

A charger that can't be adjusted is pretty much totally useless to me.
Why does such stuff exist...?  What I'm looking for in terms of
adjustability for a charger is, aside from the usual dials controlling
bulk charge current and constant voltage (second stage), is some kind of
USB port or other allowing a computer or other device to do the same.

I initially became interested in the Elcon because it had good PF, it
was isolated, had dual AC voltage input, and oh the price looked real
good.  I also heard things about interfacing, like CANbus (which I know
nothing about), which led me to believe there were some possibilities there.

Somebody on the EVDL suggested the Elcon in regards to my mention of
charging my US2200 pack at 8.5-9A, where Nawaz (USB) insists I charge at
C/10 = 23A.  A better PF would help in that dept.

I'd also had thoughts of making the Elcon my primary charger, and using
the Zivan K2 for a backup.  When the charger goes pop, charging with a
variac for days on end gets old...

Some months ago I took a quick pass through Greg McCrea's site, et.al.,
looking for info.  I don't recall finding much of interest on this
charger.  Time was up, moved on...  What's the scoop now?

Chuck

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