Feasibility question

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Feasibility question

Barry Oppenheim
Short version
Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?

Long version
My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been using as my daily car for almost five years.  Given the appearance of OEM EV's I am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years.  This means I will no longer have a need for my Vue.

I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not appear to be high.  Another option is I could try to sell off the parts and use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar.  But again the market for used EV parts is limited.

What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998 F150.  I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use it for winter plowing and hauling stuff.

Really long version
So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum for similar conversions.  Trucks have been done.  Automatics less so.  Don't see any similar four wheel drives.

Question:
1.  Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
2.  Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the automatic and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps needed?
3.  My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted.  Is keeping this feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
4.  Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission vehicle.  Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps, differential associated stuff, etc).

Thanks in advance,
Barry Oppenheim
Wrightstown, PA



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Re: Feasibility question

rodhower
You might want to check out John Lussmyer's F250,
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250



________________________________
 From: Barry <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:40 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Feasibility question
 

Short version
Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?

Long version
My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been using as my daily car for almost five years.  Given the appearance of OEM EV's I am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years.  This means I will no longer have a need for my Vue.

I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not appear to be high.  Another option is I could try to sell off the parts and use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar.  But again the market for used EV parts is limited.

What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998 F150.  I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use it for winter plowing and hauling stuff.

Really long version
So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum for similar conversions.  Trucks have been done.  Automatics less so.  Don't see any similar four wheel drives.

Question:
1.  Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
2.  Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the automatic and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps needed?
3.  My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted.  Is keeping this feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
4.  Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission vehicle.  Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps, differential associated stuff, etc).

Thanks in advance,
Barry Oppenheim
Wrightstown, PA



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Re: Feasibility question

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by Barry Oppenheim

  I find that my 6800 lb pickup with a manual transmission with a WarP 11 and a Z1k start rolling out at 1 rpm, cause the battery ampere to peak at about 300 amps.  The motor ampere to 600 ampere.  Stop on a hill and starting out, could go to 800 amps which is the maximum motor ampere the Z1k is program for.  

  On level grade in town driving with this set up, I use about four AH per mile. I did a lot of research on automatic transmissions that will hold up to this amount of motor torque at start up.  I talk to race car mechanics, transmission shops who modified these transmission for very low rpm lockup which still reduces the life of the transmission,

  Some EV drivers install there automatic transmission in standard mode without changing anything and worn out the clutch pack in with 1000 miles. This is cause by the torque converter having too high of a lock up rpm for a engine.

  The transmission mechanic recommended to change a heavy duty automatic transmission to a manual mode type.  This was done by replacing the valve body to a manual valve body.  Remove the governor control module that controls the rpm shifting.  If the transmission if a electronic control type, than replace computer or reprogram the computer for a lower stall speed  or if it is a vacuum modulator control transmission, this modulator is plug off when using a manual valve body.  

  The new computer control automatics transmissions in the new high performance vehicles have a selector lever on the steering column that can select the automatic or manual mode and can select with a lever on a paddle shifter or a console shifter.

  So I told the transmission shop to build me up a automatic/manual transmission  with direct drive floating shaft from the motor coupler flange to the transmission oil pump.  The EV motor is the drive motor that pumps up the oil pressure in the pump.  At about 200 rpm, the EV will start to move.  The only problem if you press the accelerator too fast, the EV will do a violet acceleration at the start.  This is ok for racing, but not park between two cars.

  The transmission which happen to be a TH-400 has two pump oil ports for connection to a external oil pump.  The shop install a pump and this was more violent start out.  In the transmission shop, we started up the motor and when I just press the accelerator, BAM the EV actual jump a bit and the transmission shot out oil through the vent tube on to the floor.

  Race cars use a oil recovery system to cycle the oil back to the transmission.  They may have to rebuilt the transmission after each race.  So we remove the direct drive shaft and install a low rpm torque converter which can move the EV at 200 rpm.  The bell housing for the TH-400 is very large diameter that will house a 14 inch diameter torque converter which is need for this low starting rpm.

  The torque converter stall rpm is chosen to match the SWEET SPOT of the motor.  This is the rpm of the motor where the maximum torque is at the maximum HP of the motor.  Talking to Net Gain, this happens to be about 1800 for a WarP 11 motor, so that is the stall rpm of the torque is selected.

  I question the amount of lag from 200 to 1800 rpm, the master mechanic said the torque converting start to lock up at 200 rpm adds a 1.8:1 ratio to the overall ratio gear ratios of the EV.

  The first gear of the transmission using the manual transmission was 3,5 in 1st gear and the differential at 5.57.  The overall ratio is 3.5 x 5.57 = 19.495:1 which is 4 ah per mile at 25 mph.

  The first gear of the automatic transmission is 1.8 (torque converter) x 2.75 x 5.57 = 27.57:1  which is 3.3 ah per mile at 25 mph  

  I shift the transmission into the next gear at 1800 motor rpm (maximum  lock) and shift into the next gear when the rpm increases to 1800 again.  The shifting from each gear to the next is so smooth, it not like shifting at all.

  The maximum continuous motor ampere is 200 amperes while the battery ampere is 75 ampere.  Shifting at the 1800 rpm sweet spot, the motor ampere maintains 200 ampere through out the increase of speed and shift points.  

  At a steady speed at 25 to 45 mph (max town driving) the motor ampere drops to 150 motor ampere and 50 battery ampere.  

  I find when I was driving my EV with the manual transmission coming to a short stop and go, I would let up the accelerator about a half block from the stop and press in the clutch to allow the motor to continue in spinning.  Press the accelerator again and the power up of the motor is about 100 amps less than if I allow the motor to go to 0 rpm.

  To do this method of stop and go with the automatic transmission, I can switch in another 5k pot in series with the existing 5k accelerator pot.  The 5k pot is pre adjusted  to where the EV will not move, but leaves the motor turning.  I use a 2 position on the dash that selects Idle On and Idle Off.   If I have a long stop, I will switch to idle off and before I start to move again, I will turn on the idle switch again which gives a smooth start out at a lower ampere.

  The idle switch became very handy when stopping on a steep hill with a vehicle in front and rear of a EV.  With the manual transmission this become a hazard when you tried hold the brake and work the accelerator without hitting the car behind you.

  Roland  




  ________________________________
   From: Barry <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
  Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:40 PM
  Subject: [EVDL] Feasibility question
   

  Short version
  Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?

  Long version
  My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been using as my daily car for almost five years. Given the appearance of OEM EV's I am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years. This means I will no longer have a need for my Vue.

  I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not appear to be high. Another option is I could try to sell off the parts and use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar. But again the market for used EV parts is limited.

  What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998 F150. I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use it for winter plowing and hauling stuff.

  Really long version
  So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum for similar conversions. Trucks have been done. Automatics less so. Don't see any similar four wheel drives.

  Question:
  1. Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
  2. Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the automatic and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps needed?
  3. My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted. Is keeping this feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
  4. Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission vehicle. Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps, differential associated stuff, etc).

  Thanks in advance,
  Barry Oppenheim
  Wrightstown, PA



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Re: Feasibility question

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by rodhower
Barry,

I have an '89 Ford Ranger pickup with automatic transmission that was
converted around 1995 but did not get much use until I bought it
last year and have put 5,000 miles on since.
Indeed, driving an EV with automatic transmission is different
and the programmed (usually mechanical in the valve body) switching points might not be the ideal ones for the electric motor, but it works. I find that I need to use the "kickdown" (force the transmission to stay longer in lower gear) quite a lot, but that can also have to do with this truck being under-powered (controller limited: 120V, 300A) so when I am lugging the motor then its acceleration is lackluster.

Anyway, the transmission is exactly original, including the oil cooler behind the grille - the transmission takes care of pumping the oil anyway.
To maintain transmission oil pressure, the motor is spun slowly (only a few
hundred RPM, so there is not the usual creep that you get with ICE idle speed) and this is done using a bypass resistor on the throttle so it never completely shuts off (adjustable resistor to dial in the idle RPM).
I am not familiar with the Zilla, it may be necessary to have the throttle
connected by itself only during booting of the hairball as I do not know if it will allow a throttle value that will command some (low) current from the Zilla.
If so, then you need to add the bypass on the throttle later, for example by detecting it is taken out of Park and closing a small relay, or find a different way by telling the hairball to idle. Otmar and others will know this since some people use idling to run A/C pumps, alternators, steering pumps and so on.

Regarding vacuum: you probably want vacuum for the brake booster anyway, so you can tap off from that to control the transfer box.

Let me know if you have more questions about EV with automatic transmission.
Success,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email] Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626

________________________________
 From: Barry <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:40 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Feasibility question
 

Short version
Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?

Long version
My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been using as my daily car for almost five years.  Given the appearance of OEM EV's I am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years.  This means I will no longer have a need for my Vue.

I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not appear to be high.  Another option is I could try to sell off the parts and use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar.  But again the market for used EV parts is limited.

What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998 F150.  I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use it for winter plowing and hauling stuff.

Really long version
So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum for similar conversions.  Trucks have been done.  Automatics less so.  Don't see any similar four wheel drives.

Question:
1.  Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
2.  Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the automatic and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps needed?
3.  My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted.  Is keeping this feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
4.  Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission vehicle.  Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps, differential associated stuff, etc).

Thanks in advance,
Barry Oppenheim
Wrightstown, PA



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1998 F150 truck conversion : Feasibility question

brucedp5
In reply to this post by Barry Oppenheim
John's site was posted, and Roland and Cor gave their experiences.

But what I did not read in your inquiring post was exactly what
capabilities do you want the converted truck to have:
-what range at what speed on the road
-what top speed will you need on the road
-what range when plowing snow at slow speeds

By knowing what your EV needs are, you could determine if the pack
voltage, motor and controller type you have would give you what you
want.

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/1998/
1998 F150

http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/18940?month=1
Monthly Weather Planner for Newtown, PA (cold,snow)

From what the members have posted and with no exact EV-needs stated,
then I say yes, if you drop your EV components in the truck it will
move. But my questions of will it satisfy your unstated EV needs will go
unanswered, and you may have an e-truck that does not do what you want
it to do.

If I were in your position, and I were to assume that you would not want
to spend too much on this EV-component reuse project, I would suggest
you price an appropriate used manual transmission, and compare that to
the cost of modifying and buying what is needed to use your existing
automatic transmission. If replacing your automatic transmission was the
less costly of the two choices, you would gain a little more range by
going with a manual transmission.

Since you said you would be using the e-truck for plowing/pushing snow,
I will assume you would want to keep the 4x4 option, and the losses of
lugging around the added weight when driving in 2x4 mode would be OK
with you.

If you could elaborate more on answers to my (above) questions, others
with more experience than I could weigh in with advice/comments.


{brucedp.150m.com}


-
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013, at 09:40 AM, Barry wrote:

> Short version
> Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?
>
> Long version
> My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been
> using as my daily car for almost five years.  Given the appearance of OEM
> EV's I am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years.  This
> means I will no longer have a need for my Vue.
>
> I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not
> appear to be high.  Another option is I could try to sell off the parts
> and use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar.  But again the market
> for used EV parts is limited.
>
> What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998
> F150.  I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use
> it for winter plowing and hauling stuff.
>
> Really long version
> So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum
> for similar conversions.  Trucks have been done.  Automatics less so.
> Don't see any similar four wheel drives.
>
> Question:
> 1.  Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
> 2.  Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the
> automatic and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps
> needed?
> 3.  My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is
> applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted.  Is keeping this
> feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
> 4.  Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission
> vehicle.  Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps,
> differential associated stuff, etc).
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Barry Oppenheim
> Wrightstown, PA
-

--
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Re: 1998 F150 truck conversion : Feasibility question

Barry Oppenheim
Roland, Cor, and Bruce,

Thank you for the information.  Very helpful.  I'm waiting to hear from John (not sure if he is still on the list so I sent him an email).

As an aside it took me a year and a half of planning, reading, etc before doing my first conversion.  So it will take a while for me to research and digest this new information :-)

@Bruce
Basically the truck is my spare utility vehicle.  Plowing and short distance hauling and light towing.  As you mentioned 4WD is a must.  Range not so much (don't know the last time I took the truck for more than 20 miles round trip).  Speed also not so much (can't remember the last time I took it over 50 mph).  Mainly a low speed, around the town vehicle with occasional plowing and salting in the winter.  Maybe 30-50 trips/uses a year.

The current LiFePO4 pack I have is  ~30kWH.  On my current vehicle (current curb weight ~3500 lbs) I have easily gone 70miles on occasion with reserve Ah's to spare.  So ~doubling the weight and a proportional halving the range would be well within the use limits for this vehicle.

Hope that helps.

Thanks in advance,
Barry


On Oct 8, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John's site was posted, and Roland and Cor gave their experiences.
>
> But what I did not read in your inquiring post was exactly what
> capabilities do you want the converted truck to have:
> -what range at what speed on the road
> -what top speed will you need on the road
> -what range when plowing snow at slow speeds
>
> By knowing what your EV needs are, you could determine if the pack
> voltage, motor and controller type you have would give you what you
> want.
>
> http://www.edmunds.com/ford/f-150/1998/
> 1998 F150
>
> http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/18940?month=1
> Monthly Weather Planner for Newtown, PA (cold,snow)
>
> From what the members have posted and with no exact EV-needs stated,
> then I say yes, if you drop your EV components in the truck it will
> move. But my questions of will it satisfy your unstated EV needs will go
> unanswered, and you may have an e-truck that does not do what you want
> it to do.
>
> If I were in your position, and I were to assume that you would not want
> to spend too much on this EV-component reuse project, I would suggest
> you price an appropriate used manual transmission, and compare that to
> the cost of modifying and buying what is needed to use your existing
> automatic transmission. If replacing your automatic transmission was the
> less costly of the two choices, you would gain a little more range by
> going with a manual transmission.
>
> Since you said you would be using the e-truck for plowing/pushing snow,
> I will assume you would want to keep the 4x4 option, and the losses of
> lugging around the added weight when driving in 2x4 mode would be OK
> with you.
>
> If you could elaborate more on answers to my (above) questions, others
> with more experience than I could weigh in with advice/comments.
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
> -
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013, at 09:40 AM, Barry wrote:
>> Short version
>> Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?
>>
>> Long version
>> My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been
>> using as my daily car for almost five years.  Given the appearance of OEM
>> EV's I am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years.  This
>> means I will no longer have a need for my Vue.
>>
>> I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not
>> appear to be high.  Another option is I could try to sell off the parts
>> and use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar.  But again the market
>> for used EV parts is limited.
>>
>> What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998
>> F150.  I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use
>> it for winter plowing and hauling stuff.
>>
>> Really long version
>> So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum
>> for similar conversions.  Trucks have been done.  Automatics less so.
>> Don't see any similar four wheel drives.
>>
>> Question:
>> 1.  Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
>> 2.  Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the
>> automatic and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps
>> needed?
>> 3.  My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is
>> applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted.  Is keeping this
>> feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
>> 4.  Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission
>> vehicle.  Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps,
>> differential associated stuff, etc).
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Barry Oppenheim
>> Wrightstown, PA
> -
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:
>  http://www.fastmail.fm/help/overview_quotes.html
>
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Re: Feasibility question

Dwain Swick
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
Barry
We have been building our version of an automatic transmission for a few years now.  Our EVGlide is a modified Powerglide. We are connecting the motor directly to the transmission thru a coupler and adapter plates. We eliminate the torque converter. We cut off the bell housing as it is no longer needed. This makes a compact motor/transmission unit. We add an auxiliary pump to maintain pressure when stopped. The valve body has been modified to make it a manual shift. Most gear ratio's allow the vehicle to run 40 to 45 mph in low gear so low gear is all that is needed on most city streets.
I don't know much about controlling the four wheel drive, but it seems the drive could be adapted to the EVGlide. I would think  the weight of the F150 and the extra drag of the four wheel drive, you would want an eleven inch motor.
The normal automatic will tend to shift to a higher gear at a lower speed. This will make an electric motor tend to pull more amps which will give you poorer performance and shorter range.  The manual shift puts the driver in control. With the EVGlide, the gears are a planetary and always engaged. The clutches are internal and controlled hydraulically. When you move the shifter to a new position, you instantly get that gear.
Because the unit doesn't use the torque converter, there isn't any need for an oil cooler. The slippage in the torque converter is where the oil gets hot.
Dwain Swick
kansasev.com





>________________________________
> From: Cor van de Water <[hidden email]>
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 4:00 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Feasibility question
>
>
>Barry,
>
>I have an '89 Ford Ranger pickup with automatic transmission that was
>converted around 1995 but did not get much use until I bought it
>last year and have put 5,000 miles on since.
>Indeed, driving an EV with automatic transmission is different
>and the programmed (usually mechanical in the valve body) switching points might not be the ideal ones for the electric motor, but it works. I find that I need to use the "kickdown" (force the transmission to stay longer in lower gear) quite a lot, but that can also have to do with this truck being under-powered (controller limited: 120V, 300A) so when I am lugging the motor then its acceleration is lackluster.
>
>Anyway, the transmission is exactly original, including the oil cooler behind the grille - the transmission takes care of pumping the oil anyway.
>To maintain transmission oil pressure, the motor is spun slowly (only a few
>hundred RPM, so there is not the usual creep that you get with ICE idle speed) and this is done using a bypass resistor on the throttle so it never completely shuts off (adjustable resistor to dial in the idle RPM).
>I am not familiar with the Zilla, it may be necessary to have the throttle
>connected by itself only during booting of the hairball as I do not know if it will allow a throttle value that will command some (low) current from the Zilla.
>If so, then you need to add the bypass on the throttle later, for example by detecting it is taken out of Park and closing a small relay, or find a different way by telling the hairball to idle. Otmar and others will know this since some people use idling to run A/C pumps, alternators, steering pumps and so on.
>
>Regarding vacuum: you probably want vacuum for the brake booster anyway, so you can tap off from that to control the transfer box.
>
>Let me know if you have more questions about EV with automatic transmission.
>Success,
>
>Cor van de Water
>Chief Scientist
>Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>Email: [hidden email] Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
>Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
>
>________________________________
>From: Barry <[hidden email]>
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:40 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] Feasibility question
>
>
>Short version
>Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?
>
>Long version
>My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been using as my daily car for almost five years.  Given the appearance of OEM EV's I am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years.  This means I will no longer have a need for my Vue.
>
>I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not appear to be high.  Another option is I could try to sell off the parts and use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar.  But again the market for used EV parts is limited.
>
>What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998 F150.  I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use it for winter plowing and hauling stuff.
>
>Really long version
>So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum for similar conversions.  Trucks have been done.  Automatics less so.  Don't see any similar four wheel drives.
>
>Question:
>1.  Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
>2.  Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the automatic and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps needed?
>3.  My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted.  Is keeping this feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
>4.  Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission vehicle.  Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps, differential associated stuff, etc).
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Barry Oppenheim
>Wrightstown, PA
>
>
>
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Re: Feasibility question

Roger Stockton
Dwain Swick wrote:

> We have been building our version of an automatic transmission for a few
> years now.  Our EVGlide is a modified Powerglide. We are connecting the
> motor directly to the transmission thru a coupler and adapter plates. We
> eliminate the torque converter. We cut off the bell housing as it is no
> longer needed. This makes a compact motor/transmission unit. We add an
> auxiliary pump to maintain pressure when stopped. The valve body has been
> modified to make it a manual shift. Most gear ratio's allow the vehicle to
> run 40 to 45 mph in low gear so low gear is all that is needed on most
> city streets.
> I don't know much about controlling the four wheel drive, but it seems the
> drive could be adapted to the EVGlide. I would think  the weight of the
> F150 and the extra drag of the four wheel drive, you would want an eleven
> inch motor.
> The normal automatic will tend to shift to a higher gear at a lower speed.
> This will make an electric motor tend to pull more amps which will give
> you poorer performance and shorter range.  The manual shift puts the
> driver in control. With the EVGlide, the gears are a planetary and always
> engaged. The clutches are internal and controlled hydraulically. When you
> move the shifter to a new position, you instantly get that gear.
> Because the unit doesn't use the torque converter, there isn't any need
> for an oil cooler. The slippage in the torque converter is where the oil
> gets hot.

I'm not saying that the EVGlide would be a poor choice, however, there are a couple of points that bear clarification.

Retaining the original Ford automatic is the easiest and least costly option.  Going to some other automatic will require more fabrication and swapping the Ford automatic for a Ford manual will require additional work to retrofit the clutch and shifter linkages (for snowplowing with a manual you will probably want the clutch).

Retaining the torque converter provides additional torque multiplication and may allow you to use the 9" motor while going without a torque converter may force you to a larger motor.

The Ford automatics are fully manual shift for first and second gears.  That is, if you select "1", the transmission will start in, and remain in, first gear; if you select "2", it will start in and remain in second gear.  If you select "D", it will start in first and upshift through the gears according to its programming, which will not likely be the same shift points you would choose for a series DC motor.

The factory transmission "cooler" is *inside* one of the end caps of the engine radiator.  It serves two purposes: if the tranny fluid temperature exceeds that of the engine coolant, it cools the fluid; if the tranny fluid temperature is lower than that of the engine coolant, it *heats* the tranny fluid.  This latter point is important since you plan to use the truck for snow plowing, which typically occurs in cold climates.  The clutch packs in automatic transmissions rely on o-rings to hold the oil pressure behind the pistons that applies the clutches.  With age, these seals tend to harden; they also tend to harden at low temperatures.  If you put the vehicle in gear at low temperature, oil pressure can leak around the seal and prevent the clutches from engaging properly.  The natural instinct when the vehicle doesn't begin moving is to apply more throttle, which raises the oil pressure.  Eventually the oil pressure reaches the point where the piston suddenly (violently) applies, sometimes with the result that the o-ring is dislodged completely.  If the o-ring becomes dislodged, that set of clutches becomes non-functional and you "lose" that gear (and possibly others, depending on the transmission design).

For snow plowing, I would suggest plumbing in an electric heater into the tranny fluid loop.  Indeed, I would consider circulating the heated tranny fluid through the stock heater core as a means of providing cabin heat (which you will certainly need anyway).

If you keep the stock automatic, the easiest option is to use the stock tranny pump and simply idle the motor to maintain line pressure.  This is likely to be less efficient than using a separate pump to maintain line pressure since once the motor RPM exceeds some level, the stock pump will build more pressure than necessary and you will be wasting energy circulating fluid through bypass circuits.

What sort of DC/DC converter do you have in your present EV?  I did a lot of snow plowing growing up, and we had to run pair of 12V batteries because the alternator could have difficulty keeping up due to the additional lights and the load of the pump to raise and/or angle the blade every few minutes.  Depending on how much snow you have to plow, you may have to do something similar or look to a beefier DC/DC converter.

Cheers,

Roger.

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Re: 1998 F150 truck conversion : Feasibility question

brucedp5
In reply to this post by Barry Oppenheim
It sounds like range and top speed are not that big a deal for you.
Since the truck ice does those plowing/towing tasks now, I would want to
know the performance (hp & torques, etc.) the truck ice has, and then
calculate what the converted truck EV will have to know if it will still
do those tasks to your satisfaction.

Also, I will assume the truck ice has sufficient low gears. If the
calculated EV performance was less, I would want to see if more
experienced members think lowering the gear ratio would help that.

Here is a newswire that I had planned for posting later, but bumped it
up as it might be helpful for your project
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Aussies-determine-manual-tranny-more-efficient-tp4665664.html
EVLN: Aussies determine manual tranny more efficient

Some of the ol' timers might say, "Well we knew that ...", but for
others, the piece reaffirms that point.
 
The only personal experience I can share that might relate to having
less performance after the conversion than when the vehicle was an ice
is:

Originally, my 2wd S-10 Blazer donor came from an auto-dismantler, that
came without an ice, or the rest of the nasty, unwanted junk. After the
conversion, I found out they had given me a differential that had the
highest gear ratio of the four available. This was fine and kind of fun
if I wanted to wind this 2 ton Blazer conversion EV (a lead sled) to up
over 90+mph. But that wasn't the way I drive.

I am that guy in the right lane, slowing for merging on-ramp drivers, or
driving at a constant 55mph no matter what vehicle I drive (clearly I do
not have a need for speed). Also, the shows and EVents I was attending
to show off my conversion EV (circa 1990's) would want me to drive up
and park on steep grassy locations. That turned out to be difficult with
the high differential gear ratio (it would take some clutch burning to
achieve).

I had the differential swapped out for the lowest one of four gear
ratios offered on the model. Then my top speed could be wound-up to over
75mph, but was just fine around 55mph (at the motor rpm sweet spot).
Climbing up and down the tight turns and steep grades in the Santa Cruz
mountains on China-Grade were a snap for such an EV heavy-weight. And I
could put the Blazer EV in 1st and just tractor my way up steep hills,
parking pretty-much anywhere I wanted.

So, whether it is the differential or the tranny, find out what your
performance will be with the EV components you plan to put in, and
consider if you need to lower the gear ratios so your low becomes really
low, and 2nd becomes like 1st gear is now.


{brucedp.150m.com}



-
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013, at 05:31 PM, Barry wrote: ...

> @Bruce
> Basically the truck is my spare utility vehicle.  Plowing and short
> distance hauling and light towing.  As you mentioned 4WD is a must.
> Range not so much (don't know the last time I took the truck for more
> than 20 miles round trip).  Speed also not so much (can't remember the
> last time I took it over 50 mph).  Mainly a low speed, around the town
> vehicle with occasional plowing and salting in the winter.  Maybe 30-50
> trips/uses a year.
>
> The current LiFePO4 pack I have is  ~30kWH.  On my current vehicle
> (current curb weight ~3500 lbs) I have easily gone 70miles on occasion
> with reserve Ah's to spare.  So ~doubling the weight and a proportional
> halving the range would be well within the use limits for this vehicle.
-

--
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                          wherever you are

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Re: Feasibility question

rustybkts
In reply to this post by Roger Stockton
Is it just me or is the idea of using an automatic transmission with an electric motor more than a little silly?
Noting that the transmission oil will get hot enough to heat the cabin confirms it.
Surely using AC motors is the way to go as all the manufacturers use them for a reason and they are readily available these days as are the inverters.

Direct couple it to a manual gearbox fixed in second or third. So much simpler.



On Wednesday, 9 October 2013, 15:17, Roger Stockton <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
Dwain Swick wrote:

> We have been building our version of an automatic transmission for a few
> years now.  Our EVGlide is a modified Powerglide. We are connecting the
> motor directly to the transmission thru a coupler and adapter plates. We
> eliminate the torque converter. We cut off the bell housing as it is no
> longer needed. This makes a compact motor/transmission unit. We add an
> auxiliary pump to maintain pressure when stopped. The valve body has been
> modified to make it a manual shift. Most gear ratio's allow the vehicle to
> run 40 to 45 mph in low gear so low gear is all that is needed on most
> city streets.
> I don't know much about controlling the four wheel drive, but it seems the
> drive could be adapted to the EVGlide. I would think  the weight of the
> F150 and the extra drag of the four wheel drive, you would want an eleven
> inch motor.
> The normal automatic will tend to shift to a higher gear at a lower speed.
> This will make an electric motor tend to pull more amps which will give
> you poorer performance and shorter range.  The manual shift puts the
> driver in control. With the EVGlide, the gears are a planetary and always
> engaged. The clutches are internal and controlled hydraulically. When you
> move the shifter to a new position, you instantly get that gear.
> Because the unit doesn't use the torque converter, there isn't any need
> for an oil cooler. The slippage in the torque converter is where the oil
> gets hot.

I'm not saying that the EVGlide would be a poor choice, however, there are a couple of points that bear clarification.

Retaining the original Ford automatic is the easiest and least costly option.  Going to some other automatic will require more fabrication and swapping the Ford automatic for a Ford manual will require additional work to retrofit the clutch and shifter linkages (for snowplowing with a manual you will probably want the clutch).

Retaining the torque converter provides additional torque multiplication and may allow you to use the 9" motor while going without a torque converter may force you to a larger motor.

The Ford automatics are fully manual shift for first and second gears.  That is, if you select "1", the transmission will start in, and remain in, first gear; if you select "2", it will start in and remain in second gear.  If you select "D", it will start in first and upshift through the gears according to its programming, which will not likely be the same shift points you would choose for a series DC motor.

The factory transmission "cooler" is *inside* one of the end caps of the engine radiator.  It serves two purposes: if the tranny fluid temperature exceeds that of the engine coolant, it cools the fluid; if the tranny fluid temperature is lower than that of the engine coolant, it *heats* the tranny fluid.  This latter point is important since you plan to use the truck for snow plowing, which typically occurs in cold climates.  The clutch packs in automatic transmissions rely on o-rings to hold the oil pressure behind the pistons that applies the clutches.  With age, these seals tend to harden; they also tend to harden at low temperatures.  If you put the vehicle in gear at low temperature, oil pressure can leak around the seal and prevent the clutches from engaging properly.  The natural instinct when the vehicle doesn't begin moving is to apply more throttle, which raises the oil pressure.  Eventually the oil pressure reaches the point where the
 piston suddenly (violently) applies, sometimes with the result that the o-ring is dislodged completely.  If the o-ring becomes dislodged, that set of clutches becomes non-functional and you "lose" that gear (and possibly others, depending on the transmission design).

For snow plowing, I would suggest plumbing in an electric heater into the tranny fluid loop.  Indeed, I would consider circulating the heated tranny fluid through the stock heater core as a means of providing cabin heat (which you will certainly need anyway).

If you keep the stock automatic, the easiest option is to use the stock tranny pump and simply idle the motor to maintain line pressure.  This is likely to be less efficient than using a separate pump to maintain line pressure since once the motor RPM exceeds some level, the stock pump will build more pressure than necessary and you will be wasting energy circulating fluid through bypass circuits.

What sort of DC/DC converter do you have in your present EV?  I did a lot of snow plowing growing up, and we had to run pair of 12V batteries because the alternator could have difficulty keeping up due to the additional lights and the load of the pump to raise and/or angle the blade every few minutes.  Depending on how much snow you have to plow, you may have to do something similar or look to a beefier DC/DC converter.

Cheers,

Roger.

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Russ Sciville
Vortex GT EV
Lotus Elise EV
Stiga Villa EV lawnmower
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Re: Feasibility question

Roger Stockton
Russ Sciville wrote:

> Is it just me or is the idea of using an automatic transmission with an
> electric motor more than a little silly?

Not at all, especially with a series DC motor.  Placing an automatic transmission and torque converter behind a series DC motor makes it virtually idiot-proof.  With a manual tranny, you need to worry about the driver burning up the motor by running current through it while stalled (e.g. holding one's position on a hill using the throttle instead of the brake).

It will be at least a bit less efficient than a manual tranny, but if the donor vehicle has an automatic tranny and range is not that important, then it can be a perfectly sensible choice.

> Noting that the transmission oil will get hot enough to heat the cabin
> confirms it.

You didn't read carefully enough; I suggested *heating* the transmission fluid using an added heater.  The transmission is intended to operate with warm oil; removing the ICE heat source and possibly removing the torque converter (where much, but by no means all of the transmission-generated heat originates) makes it quite likely that the transmission will be operated with cooler oil than it is intended to, especially in cold weather.

> Surely using AC motors is the way to go as all the manufacturers use them
> for a reason and they are readily available these days as are the
> inverters.

By that reasoning, surely the way to go is to use an ICE engine, as all the manufacturers use them ;^>

The challenge facing hobbyist builders tends to be that the AC motor/inverter choices are relatively limited, and it can be impossible or prohibitively expensive to obtain a drive system with adequate power for an application such as this.

This situation is also rather unique as the builder already has a complete DC drivetrain on-hand as well as a donor with automatic transmission.  If they had neither, it might well make sense to buy a manual tranny donor and source a different (perhaps AC) drivetrain.

Cheers,

Roger.


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Re: Feasibility question

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by rustybkts
Russ Sciville wrote:
> Is it just me or is the idea of using an automatic transmission with an electric motor more than a little silly?

Not at all. An automatic transmission is useful, especially in a budget
EV conversion.

It is completely practical to build EVs with *no* transmission.
Essentially all purpose-built EVs have no transmission. You use a larger
motor and controller to make up for the lack of a transmission. It needs
enough RPM to reach the highest speed you will need, and enough torque
to climb the biggest hill without a transmission. It turns out that the
overall cost and weight are lower this way.

But in an EV conversion, the transmission is already there, so it's
"free". In many cases, it's integrated into the differential
(transaxle), so you can't remove it even if you wanted to. Having it
allows you to use a smaller (cheaper) electric motor and controller; one
that doesn't have enough speed and torque to cover your entire operating
range.

An automatic transmission protects against "driver error". Many people
today don't know how to drive with a manual transmission; they would
burn out the clutch, or destroy the motor from lugging it (excessive
current) or excessive RPM.

An automatic lets you idle the traction motor, and run all the usual
accessories from it with belts (alternator, air conditioner, power
steering pump, vacuum pump, etc.) This is a cheap and easy way to avoid
buying new electric versions of all these.

Most of the extra losses in an automatic transmission come from the
torque converter. But most modern automatics have locking torque
converters. When it is locked, efficiency is essentially the same as a
manual transmission, and only 5-10% worse than no transmission at all.

> Noting that the transmission oil will get hot enough to heat the
> cabin confirms it.

I think Roger meant that you may need to *heat* the automatic
transmission fluid when there is no ICE engine heat. Once the torque
converter is locked, the transmission doesn't produce much heat. The
transmission and its are designed to operate the best when hot; not cold.

> Surely using AC motors is the way to go as all the manufacturers use them for a reason and they are readily available these days as are the inverters.

AC happens to be fashionable at the moment. But DC works just as well.
Both are completely suitable for transmissionless EVs. Trains have used
them for 50+ years without transmissions, and they certainly need
tremendous pulling power.

--
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        Elon Musk
--
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Re: Feasibility question

Barry Oppenheim
In reply to this post by Roger Stockton
Lot of good info from everyone.  Bottom line is it looks doable.

I'll have to do some specific research on the F150 tranny.  Looks like it is solenoid activated and controlled by a PCM.

Thanks again
Barry
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Re: 1998 F150 truck conversion : Feasibility question

Steve Clunn-2
In reply to this post by brucedp5
You didn't say what your plans were for your old conversion.

 I have a 1986 F150 Ford Pick up. with a standard 4 speed
Transmission, , Clutchless adapter plate and a 9" Net Gain Motor.  It
has a super low Grannie Gear that is not used often, but if you are
plowing snow, you might want to use that. Top speed in 1st is about 15
mph.   I would be happy to trade the whole truck for the vehicle you
are taking the parts out of.  You keep your motor, controller etc. I
ll keep my motor.   The only problem I see, is that there might be
something with your 4 wheel drive that can't be shifted over.

--
Steve Clunn
Merging the best of the past with
the best of the future.
www.Greenshedconversions.com
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Re: 1998 F150 truck conversion : Feasibility question

Barry Oppenheim
Steve,

Thanks for the offer.  Something to consider.  But right now I'm in the planning phase since I still need my current EV for at least 18 more months.  The EV I want to replace my current EV won't be available till 1st quarter 2015.

As for the old conversion, once all the parts are out and it is a shell I'll either donate it or give it to someone to tow away.  By then it will be a 13 year old chassis with around a 150000 miles on it.

Barry
On Oct 9, 2013, at 6:35 PM, Steve Clunn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You didn't say what your plans were for your old conversion.
>
> I have a 1986 F150 Ford Pick up. with a standard 4 speed
> Transmission, , Clutchless adapter plate and a 9" Net Gain Motor.  It
> has a super low Grannie Gear that is not used often, but if you are
> plowing snow, you might want to use that. Top speed in 1st is about 15
> mph.   I would be happy to trade the whole truck for the vehicle you
> are taking the parts out of.  You keep your motor, controller etc. I
> ll keep my motor.   The only problem I see, is that there might be
> something with your 4 wheel drive that can't be shifted over.
>
> --
> Steve Clunn
> Merging the best of the past with
> the best of the future.
> www.Greenshedconversions.com
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Re: Feasibility question

Mike Nickerson
In reply to this post by Barry Oppenheim
One question that I'm not sure I've seen directly addressed:  

Make sure your battery system can put out the kind of power you need.  How
many kW can you get out of the battery on a sustained basis?  Convert that
to horsepower.  Will that be enough power?  

This is partly a matter of gearing (already well discussed), but also how
big a pile of snow you're trying to deal with.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Barry
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 4:23 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Feasibility question
>
> Lot of good info from everyone.  Bottom line is it looks doable.
>
> I'll have to do some specific research on the F150 tranny.  Looks like it
is
> solenoid activated and controlled by a PCM.
>
> Thanks again
> Barry
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Re: Feasibility question (Truck, F150)

John Lussmyer
In reply to this post by rodhower
I've been traveling and didn't have access to email for a week.
I tried replying directly to barry - but it bounced back with "invalid address".

So...

1) For my F-250 (base weight without batteries about 5000 lbs, plus 3000 lbs of lead), NetGain recommended dual 9" motors.
    I'm also using a Z2K as I wanted to be able to handle enough motor current for good acceleration. (which should be possible once I finish converting to a much lighter Lithium pack.)

2) I switched to a manual, partly because my donor didn't have the automatic anymore. (got the truck cheap because the owner lunched the automatic transmission.)  I also didn't want to fiddle with external pumps or an "idler" circuit.

3) Depends on your hubs.  Mine has automatic locking hubs, which just work.  (basically, if the front axles start turning, they lock.)

4) Not much.  I'm using a Miata electric power steering pump, and a good electric vacuum pump.  Since the speedometer sensor is on the differential, the speedometer works fine.  The factory cruise control still works as well, since I kept the factory pedal setup, and just have it pulling on the Zilla hall-effect pedal under the hood.

The truck pretty much drives like an automatic.  Put it in 3rd gear and go.  Good for up to 65mph.
I never got around to installing a clutch actuator - so I have a clutch, but no way to disengage it.


On Tue Oct 08 10:33:55 PDT 2013 [hidden email] said:

>You might want to check out John Lussmyer's F250,
>http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
>
>________________________________
>From: Barry <[hidden email]>
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:40 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] Feasibility question
>
>Short version
>Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?
>
>Long version
>My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been using as my daily car for almost five years.  Given the appearance of OEM EV's I am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years.  This means I will no longer have a need for my Vue.
>
>I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not appear to be high.  Another option is I could try to sell off the parts and use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar.  But again the market for used EV parts is limited.
>
>What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998 F150.  I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use it for winter plowing and hauling stuff.
>
>Really long version
>So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum for similar conversions.  Trucks have been done.  Automatics less so.  Don't see any similar four wheel drives.
>
>Question:
>1.  Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
>2.  Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the automatic and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps needed?
>3.  My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted.  Is keeping this feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
>4.  Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission vehicle.  Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps, differential associated stuff, etc).
--

Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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Re: Feasibility question (Truck, F150)

Barry Oppenheim
John,

Thanks for the info.

Barry

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of John Lussmyer
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 6:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Feasibility question (Truck, F150)

I've been traveling and didn't have access to email for a week.
I tried replying directly to barry - but it bounced back with "invalid
address".

So...

1) For my F-250 (base weight without batteries about 5000 lbs, plus 3000 lbs
of lead), NetGain recommended dual 9" motors.
    I'm also using a Z2K as I wanted to be able to handle enough motor
current for good acceleration. (which should be possible once I finish
converting to a much lighter Lithium pack.)

2) I switched to a manual, partly because my donor didn't have the automatic
anymore. (got the truck cheap because the owner lunched the automatic
transmission.)  I also didn't want to fiddle with external pumps or an
"idler" circuit.

3) Depends on your hubs.  Mine has automatic locking hubs, which just work.
(basically, if the front axles start turning, they lock.)

4) Not much.  I'm using a Miata electric power steering pump, and a good
electric vacuum pump.  Since the speedometer sensor is on the differential,
the speedometer works fine.  The factory cruise control still works as well,
since I kept the factory pedal setup, and just have it pulling on the Zilla
hall-effect pedal under the hood.

The truck pretty much drives like an automatic.  Put it in 3rd gear and go.
Good for up to 65mph.
I never got around to installing a clutch actuator - so I have a clutch, but
no way to disengage it.


On Tue Oct 08 10:33:55 PDT 2013 [hidden email] said:

>You might want to check out John Lussmyer's F250,
>http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
>
>________________________________
>From: Barry <[hidden email]>
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:40 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] Feasibility question
>
>Short version
>Is an F150 with 4 x4 and automatic transmission possible?
>
>Long version
>My current EV is a Saturn Vue, which I converted myself and have been using
as my daily car for almost five years.  Given the appearance of OEM EV's I
am planning on getting an OEM EV in the next two years.  This means I will
no longer have a need for my Vue.
>
>I could try to sell the Vue but the resale value of DIY EV's does not
appear to be high.  Another option is I could try to sell off the parts and
use the Lithium batteries for my backup solar.  But again the market for
used EV parts is limited.
>
>What I would like to do is re-task all of the EV components to my 1998
F150.  I put less that 2000 mile a year on this vehicle and primarily use it
for winter plowing and hauling stuff.
>
>Really long version
>So I've looked over the EVDL archives, diyelectriccar.com, and evalbum for
similar conversions.  Trucks have been done.  Automatics less so.  Don't see
any similar four wheel drives.
>
>Question:
>1.  Will my 9" net gain and 1K Zilla be sufficient?
>2.  Is it easier to swap the automatic with a manual or keep the automatic
and run a separate electric motor for any transmission pumps needed?
>3.  My understanding is that the hubs are unlocked (2WD) when vacuum is
applied and locked (4WD) when the vacuum is interrupted.  Is keeping this
feature as simple as just having a vacuum pump for the 4WD?
>4.  Other than this truck I've never had an automatic transmission
vehicle.  Anything else I might be missing (transmission cooler pumps,
differential associated stuff, etc).
--

Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
_______________________________________________
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(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



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