Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

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Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Dan Baker
Hello,
First of all sorry if I mispost this somehow, newbie to list alert!
I found this list after I finished my first EV, however I definitely want to
share my build and learn from everyone too on theirs.  I'm hoping this won't
be my last EV, thoughts are already swirling for my next one :-)

Back to my first EV.  Some history:  I live on a small lake just outside
Halifax, NS, Canada.   We have some boats- canoe, dingy, paddleboat and a
couple of seadoos.  They are all fun however I wanted a larger craft for
slow cruises where I could take 6-7 people out on and cruise the lake, fish
etc.  The backside of the lake is now home to a nature reserve and has some
really majestic views that I wanted to show friends and family.  My wife and
I love the seadoos however they are noisy, polluting beasts which I'm
constantly wrenching on (would love to EV one of them).  You can't take a
seadoo for fishing or anyone else with you without presuming that someone
is getting wet.  Canoes and paddle boats tend to be dryer but also have cons
with speed and capacity.  So I got the notion I wanted a pontoon boat,
seemed to fit my requirements  However, costs were a concern as well as
getting into and out of the water.  I have a boat launch which I made as
environmentally friendly as possible (washed pebble, minimal incursion into
the water, etc) however it is quite steep and a bit rocky below
the waterline.  I can get seadoos and floating docks in and out but a
pontoon boat would surely have problems being launched and retrieved.  So I
decided to build my own, a poor man's pontoon boat.

All in told it took me less that 6 weeks from start to a
cruising finish however I have been "accessorising" for a little while now.
Being under a budget (2000-2500 CAD) and some quick time lines, I didn't go
with EV components like controllers, multi volt EV motors and used as much
off the shelf components I could retrofit.  For example the motors are 12V
duramax 32 lb thrust trolling that I mounted on the back and relocated the
tops (control section) to central console.  I ran 6 gauge wire from the tops
to bottoms.  I kept the voltage at 12 volts as not to electrocute anyone and
used fuses everywhere.  The end result is a very simple drive line that
works surprisingly well.  It also steers the boat through skid steering
(tank like control).  Overall I'm extremely happy with the build and
everyone that has seen it asks a thousand questions.  I've had a fishing
party on it already and have had countless evening tours, the 900 LED
lighting it up very well at night.  It's near silence on the water allows me
to crawl up on wildlife (even they are curious of it) and I can't remember
having a quiet conversation on a boat at full throttle!

I have posted some pics on picassa.  Build is here:
http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/BoatBuild#
Some cruise pics are here:  http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/FireflyCruises
#

I have submitted a page to the evalbum but it hasn't been posted yet (not
sure why) but understand that these things take time.  If anyone has any
questions I will be sure to answer as best and when possible, however be
prepared to answer my questions when I start reading your threads too!

Thank you,
Dan
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Bill Dube
It is absolutely gorgeous. I am also jealous that you can go for a
silent cruise on such a beautiful lake.

If I am ever in NS, I will have to stop by and see it in person.

I imagine you can turn it on its own axis by reversing one motor and
leaving the other in forward drive.

Again, my hat is off to you for such an elegant, simple, yet beautiful EV.

Bill Dube'

At 11:54 AM 8/28/2010, you wrote:

>Hello,
>First of all sorry if I mispost this somehow, newbie to list alert!
>I found this list after I finished my first EV, however I definitely want to
>share my build and learn from everyone too on theirs.  I'm hoping this won't
>be my last EV, thoughts are already swirling for my next one :-)
>
>Back to my first EV.  Some history:  I live on a small lake just outside
>Halifax, NS, Canada.   We have some boats- canoe, dingy, paddleboat and a
>couple of seadoos.  They are all fun however I wanted a larger craft for
>slow cruises where I could take 6-7 people out on and cruise the lake, fish
>etc.  The backside of the lake is now home to a nature reserve and has some
>really majestic views that I wanted to show friends and family.  My wife and
>I love the seadoos however they are noisy, polluting beasts which I'm
>constantly wrenching on (would love to EV one of them).  You can't take a
>seadoo for fishing or anyone else with you without presuming that someone
>is getting wet.  Canoes and paddle boats tend to be dryer but also have cons
>with speed and capacity.  So I got the notion I wanted a pontoon boat,
>seemed to fit my requirements  However, costs were a concern as well as
>getting into and out of the water.  I have a boat launch which I made as
>environmentally friendly as possible (washed pebble, minimal incursion into
>the water, etc) however it is quite steep and a bit rocky below
>the waterline.  I can get seadoos and floating docks in and out but a
>pontoon boat would surely have problems being launched and retrieved.  So I
>decided to build my own, a poor man's pontoon boat.
>
>All in told it took me less that 6 weeks from start to a
>cruising finish however I have been "accessorising" for a little while now.
>Being under a budget (2000-2500 CAD) and some quick time lines, I didn't go
>with EV components like controllers, multi volt EV motors and used as much
>off the shelf components I could retrofit.  For example the motors are 12V
>duramax 32 lb thrust trolling that I mounted on the back and relocated the
>tops (control section) to central console.  I ran 6 gauge wire from the tops
>to bottoms.  I kept the voltage at 12 volts as not to electrocute anyone and
>used fuses everywhere.  The end result is a very simple drive line that
>works surprisingly well.  It also steers the boat through skid steering
>(tank like control).  Overall I'm extremely happy with the build and
>everyone that has seen it asks a thousand questions.  I've had a fishing
>party on it already and have had countless evening tours, the 900 LED
>lighting it up very well at night.  It's near silence on the water allows me
>to crawl up on wildlife (even they are curious of it) and I can't remember
>having a quiet conversation on a boat at full throttle!
>
>I have posted some pics on picassa.  Build is here:
>http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/BoatBuild#
>Some cruise pics are here:  http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/FireflyCruises
>#
>
>I have submitted a page to the evalbum but it hasn't been posted yet (not
>sure why) but understand that these things take time.  If anyone has any
>questions I will be sure to answer as best and when possible, however be
>prepared to answer my questions when I start reading your threads too!
>
>Thank you,
>Dan
>-------------- next part --------------
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>
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Dan Baker
In reply to this post by Dan Baker
(Hoping I figured out how to reply correctly)

Thank you, Bill! That comes a lot from someone who probably has the fastest
advanced EV to the guy who has the total opposite  - me :-)
Yes, if u ever make it to NS and it' s in the water (which I hope to keep
until the lake starts to freeze), a cruise is definitely in order.
You are correct on the steering, to hard corner (spin on it's axis),
simply full reverse one and full forward the other.  It's a bit opposite to
what you typically expect, but at 5km/hour you really don't have to worry
about crashing too bad :-)
The only thing I find with this steering system is the boat will change
"track" with weight changes i.e. if someone walks to the other side.  You
have to stay with the controls and correct occasionally.   I'm looking for
some cheap PWM controls instead of the notched resister bank controls
however it's not really pressing.   The resister type controls are eating
power too but I'm getting really good range so that's not much issue
either.  If I stand on the nose (bow) of the boat I can actually steer the
boat with my weight by leaning in the direction I want to go (like a giant
surfboard).

Thanks again!
Dan





Message: 22
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:04:39 -0400
From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

It is absolutely gorgeous. I am also jealous that you can go for a
silent cruise on such a beautiful lake.

If I am ever in NS, I will have to stop by and see it in person.

I imagine you can turn it on its own axis by reversing one motor and
leaving the other in forward drive.

Again, my hat is off to you for such an elegant, simple, yet beautiful EV.

Bill Dube'

At 11:54 AM 8/28/2010, you wrote:
>Hello,
>First of all sorry if I mispost this somehow, newbie to list alert!
>I found this list after I finished my first EV, however I definitely want
to
>share my build and learn from everyone too on theirs.  I'm hoping this
won't
>be my last EV, thoughts are already swirling for my next one :-)
>
>Back to my first EV.  Some history:  I live on a small lake just outside
>Halifax, NS, Canada.   We have some boats- canoe, dingy, paddleboat and a
>couple of seadoos.  They are all fun however I wanted a larger craft for
>slow cruises where I could take 6-7 people out on and cruise the lake, fish
>etc.  The backside of the lake is now home to a nature reserve and has some
>really majestic views that I wanted to show friends and family.  My wife
and
>I love the seadoos however they are noisy, polluting beasts which I'm
>constantly wrenching on (would love to EV one of them).  You can't take a
>seadoo for fishing or anyone else with you without presuming that someone
>is getting wet.  Canoes and paddle boats tend to be dryer but also have
cons

>with speed and capacity.  So I got the notion I wanted a pontoon boat,
>seemed to fit my requirements  However, costs were a concern as well as
>getting into and out of the water.  I have a boat launch which I made as
>environmentally friendly as possible (washed pebble, minimal incursion into
>the water, etc) however it is quite steep and a bit rocky below
>the waterline.  I can get seadoos and floating docks in and out but a
>pontoon boat would surely have problems being launched and retrieved.  So I
>decided to build my own, a poor man's pontoon boat.
>
>All in told it took me less that 6 weeks from start to a
>cruising finish however I have been "accessorising" for a little while now.
>Being under a budget (2000-2500 CAD) and some quick time lines, I didn't go
>with EV components like controllers, multi volt EV motors and used as much
>off the shelf components I could retrofit.  For example the motors are 12V
>duramax 32 lb thrust trolling that I mounted on the back and relocated the
>tops (control section) to central console.  I ran 6 gauge wire from the
tops
>to bottoms.  I kept the voltage at 12 volts as not to electrocute anyone
and
>used fuses everywhere.  The end result is a very simple drive line that
>works surprisingly well.  It also steers the boat through skid steering
>(tank like control).  Overall I'm extremely happy with the build and
>everyone that has seen it asks a thousand questions.  I've had a fishing
>party on it already and have had countless evening tours, the 900 LED
>lighting it up very well at night.  It's near silence on the water allows
me
>to crawl up on wildlife (even they are curious of it) and I can't remember
>having a quiet conversation on a boat at full throttle!
>
>I have posted some pics on picassa.  Build is here:
>http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/BoatBuild#
>Some cruise pics are here:
http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/FireflyCruises

>#
>
>I have submitted a page to the evalbum but it hasn't been posted yet (not
>sure why) but understand that these things take time.  If anyone has any
>questions I will be sure to answer as best and when possible, however be
>prepared to answer my questions when I start reading your threads too!
>
>Thank you,
>Dan
>-------------- next part --------------
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Bill Dube
Kelly makes a 12 volt controller for $79
http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=73

With some sort of zero-throttle lock-out, you could put in reversing
contactor, but this would get complicated perhaps. Might be better to
move up to the next level:

http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=78

I wonder how well the regen would work? ;-)  I suppose if you were to
anchor in a strong current, you might be able to generate a bit of power.

You should keep in mind that if you run a controller, you will no
longer be silent to wildlife. They can hear the 16.6 kHz of the PWM
quite clearly. Eva, my wife, can hear that high and finds many
electronic devices load and annoying, as will your furry friends.

You could ask Otmar how he worked the joystick control on his famous
electric couch. It ran two motors and steered by separately throttling each.





At 03:25 PM 8/28/2010, you wrote:

>(Hoping I figured out how to reply correctly)
>
>Thank you, Bill! That comes a lot from someone who probably has the fastest
>advanced EV to the guy who has the total opposite  - me :-)
>Yes, if u ever make it to NS and it' s in the water (which I hope to keep
>until the lake starts to freeze), a cruise is definitely in order.
>You are correct on the steering, to hard corner (spin on it's axis),
>simply full reverse one and full forward the other.  It's a bit opposite to
>what you typically expect, but at 5km/hour you really don't have to worry
>about crashing too bad :-)
>The only thing I find with this steering system is the boat will change
>"track" with weight changes i.e. if someone walks to the other side.  You
>have to stay with the controls and correct occasionally.   I'm looking for
>some cheap PWM controls instead of the notched resister bank controls
>however it's not really pressing.   The resister type controls are eating
>power too but I'm getting really good range so that's not much issue
>either.  If I stand on the nose (bow) of the boat I can actually steer the
>boat with my weight by leaning in the direction I want to go (like a giant
>surfboard).
>
>Thanks again!
>Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>Message: 22
>Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:04:39 -0400
>From: Bill Dube <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>It is absolutely gorgeous. I am also jealous that you can go for a
>silent cruise on such a beautiful lake.
>
>If I am ever in NS, I will have to stop by and see it in person.
>
>I imagine you can turn it on its own axis by reversing one motor and
>leaving the other in forward drive.
>
>Again, my hat is off to you for such an elegant, simple, yet beautiful EV.
>
>Bill Dube'
>
>At 11:54 AM 8/28/2010, you wrote:
> >Hello,
> >First of all sorry if I mispost this somehow, newbie to list alert!
> >I found this list after I finished my first EV, however I definitely want
>to
> >share my build and learn from everyone too on theirs.  I'm hoping this
>won't
> >be my last EV, thoughts are already swirling for my next one :-)
> >
> >Back to my first EV.  Some history:  I live on a small lake just outside
> >Halifax, NS, Canada.   We have some boats- canoe, dingy, paddleboat and a
> >couple of seadoos.  They are all fun however I wanted a larger craft for
> >slow cruises where I could take 6-7 people out on and cruise the lake, fish
> >etc.  The backside of the lake is now home to a nature reserve and has some
> >really majestic views that I wanted to show friends and family.  My wife
>and
> >I love the seadoos however they are noisy, polluting beasts which I'm
> >constantly wrenching on (would love to EV one of them).  You can't take a
> >seadoo for fishing or anyone else with you without presuming that someone
> >is getting wet.  Canoes and paddle boats tend to be dryer but also have
>cons
> >with speed and capacity.  So I got the notion I wanted a pontoon boat,
> >seemed to fit my requirements  However, costs were a concern as well as
> >getting into and out of the water.  I have a boat launch which I made as
> >environmentally friendly as possible (washed pebble, minimal incursion into
> >the water, etc) however it is quite steep and a bit rocky below
> >the waterline.  I can get seadoos and floating docks in and out but a
> >pontoon boat would surely have problems being launched and retrieved.  So I
> >decided to build my own, a poor man's pontoon boat.
> >
> >All in told it took me less that 6 weeks from start to a
> >cruising finish however I have been "accessorising" for a little while now.
> >Being under a budget (2000-2500 CAD) and some quick time lines, I didn't go
> >with EV components like controllers, multi volt EV motors and used as much
> >off the shelf components I could retrofit.  For example the motors are 12V
> >duramax 32 lb thrust trolling that I mounted on the back and relocated the
> >tops (control section) to central console.  I ran 6 gauge wire from the
>tops
> >to bottoms.  I kept the voltage at 12 volts as not to electrocute anyone
>and
> >used fuses everywhere.  The end result is a very simple drive line that
> >works surprisingly well.  It also steers the boat through skid steering
> >(tank like control).  Overall I'm extremely happy with the build and
> >everyone that has seen it asks a thousand questions.  I've had a fishing
> >party on it already and have had countless evening tours, the 900 LED
> >lighting it up very well at night.  It's near silence on the water allows
>me
> >to crawl up on wildlife (even they are curious of it) and I can't remember
> >having a quiet conversation on a boat at full throttle!
> >
> >I have posted some pics on picassa.  Build is here:
> >http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/BoatBuild#
> >Some cruise pics are here:
>http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/FireflyCruises
> >#
> >
> >I have submitted a page to the evalbum but it hasn't been posted yet (not
> >sure why) but understand that these things take time.  If anyone has any
> >questions I will be sure to answer as best and when possible, however be
> >prepared to answer my questions when I start reading your threads too!
> >
> >Thank you,
> >Dan
> >-------------- next part --------------
> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >URL:
> >
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100828/3aeb308c/attachment.html
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> >| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> >| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

rodhower
In reply to this post by Dan Baker
Dan,
That is a really cool EV boat!  I plan on converting my pontoon boat one of these days, the engine noise is really distracting from the boating experience!  Our lake is perfect for EV boating, no wake in most places.
Check out picture 9, it's a Duffy electric,
http://picasaweb.google.com/rodnhower/PortageLakes#
Rod

--- On Sat, 8/28/10, Dan Baker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Dan Baker <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, August 28, 2010, 11:54 AM
> Hello,
> First of all sorry if I mispost this somehow, newbie to
> list alert!
> I found this list after I finished my first EV, however I
> definitely want to
> share my build and learn from everyone too on theirs. 
> I'm hoping this won't
> be my last EV, thoughts are already swirling for my next
> one :-)
>
> Back to my first EV.  Some history:  I live on a
> small lake just outside
> Halifax, NS, Canada.   We have some boats-
> canoe, dingy, paddleboat and a
> couple of seadoos.  They are all fun however I wanted
> a larger craft for
> slow cruises where I could take 6-7 people out on and
> cruise the lake, fish
> etc.  The backside of the lake is now home to a nature
> reserve and has some
> really majestic views that I wanted to show friends and
> family.  My wife and
> I love the seadoos however they are noisy, polluting beasts
> which I'm
> constantly wrenching on (would love to EV one of
> them).  You can't take a
> seadoo for fishing or anyone else with you without
> presuming that someone
> is getting wet.  Canoes and paddle boats tend to be
> dryer but also have cons
> with speed and capacity.  So I got the notion I wanted
> a pontoon boat,
> seemed to fit my requirements  However, costs were a
> concern as well as
> getting into and out of the water.  I have a boat
> launch which I made as
> environmentally friendly as possible (washed pebble,
> minimal incursion into
> the water, etc) however it is quite steep and a bit rocky
> below
> the waterline.  I can get seadoos and floating docks
> in and out but a
> pontoon boat would surely have problems being launched and
> retrieved.  So I
> decided to build my own, a poor man's pontoon boat.
>
> All in told it took me less that 6 weeks from start to a
> cruising finish however I have been "accessorising" for a
> little while now.
> Being under a budget (2000-2500 CAD) and some quick time
> lines, I didn't go
> with EV components like controllers, multi volt EV motors
> and used as much
> off the shelf components I could retrofit.  For
> example the motors are 12V
> duramax 32 lb thrust trolling that I mounted on the back
> and relocated the
> tops (control section) to central console.  I ran 6
> gauge wire from the tops
> to bottoms.  I kept the voltage at 12 volts as not to
> electrocute anyone and
> used fuses everywhere.  The end result is a very
> simple drive line that
> works surprisingly well.  It also steers the boat
> through skid steering
> (tank like control).  Overall I'm extremely happy with
> the build and
> everyone that has seen it asks a thousand questions. 
> I've had a fishing
> party on it already and have had countless evening tours,
> the 900 LED
> lighting it up very well at night.  It's near silence
> on the water allows me
> to crawl up on wildlife (even they are curious of it) and I
> can't remember
> having a quiet conversation on a boat at full throttle!
>
> I have posted some pics on picassa.  Build is here:
> http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/BoatBuild#
> Some cruise pics are here:  http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/FireflyCruises
> #
>
> I have submitted a page to the evalbum but it hasn't been
> posted yet (not
> sure why) but understand that these things take time. 
> If anyone has any
> questions I will be sure to answer as best and when
> possible, however be
> prepared to answer my questions when I start reading your
> threads too!
>
> Thank you,
> Dan
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100828/3aeb308c/attachment.html
>
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Dan Baker
Dan Baker wrote:
> my first EV...

It looks great, Dan! Simple and straightforward so it actually got done,
yet with enough of the details right so it really works. Congratulations!

Comments in case you're in the mood to keep tinkering: I wonder if you
could improve speed and reduce power by adding a prow to each row of
barrels, and a semi-circular sheet of plastic over the bottom of them to
smooth the flow.

On speed control. The simplest method is to add switches or contactors
so you can switch the two motors either in series or parallel. Parallel
puts 12v to each for full speed. Series makes each motor run at half
speed. This is much more efficient than using resistors for speed
control, and doesn't create any ultrasonic noises like a PWM controller.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Dan Baker
Thanks everyone for the comments and ideas so far, so wished I had found
this site earlier!

To respond to everyone,

Bill:

Yes these would be excellent PM controllers, however they cost as much
or more than the motors (paid $100 each + tax for them at local store).  I
suppose the controller is where most of the money goes.  The motors were the
best price break per lb of thrust and unfortunately the next step up the
price went up considerably in the area I live in and shipping is costly on
these.  Hopefully I will be up in Ontario in October and look at some 50lb
thrust that has a PM controller built in.  I've seen them as as low as $189
up there.   Of course the next step might be to go with a single motor
retrofitted to an old outboard bottom end (more traditional EV if one can
say that yet) with some cable or electric mounts.  There are some high end
trolling motors that have GPS built in and can follow a programmed course.
The regen function might be cool as well, especially if I could use them to
part of the braking as well.  I can currently stop the boat by reversing the
motors and it works fairly well about 10 ft from full speed (need to
measure).  Once I ever get the solar panel built, it will put out 280 watts
in full sunshine. The motors I have been told consume a max of 410 watts
each.  Since a leisure boat spends 99% of it's life parked the panel should
keep the batteries charged for weekend excursions.  I think I have found a
way to build them but I need to find some tempered glass. I've seen others
just glue the cells face down(by their backs only) to the glass with a
corrosion free watertight silicone.

Rod:

Is that your boat with the "jungle theme"?  If so yes that would be the
perfect size to convert.  In fact if I could find someone to buy my "dock" I
would use the funds to retrofit one like that size for sure. You could even
keep the ICE and put the motors on each corner, have a hybrid!
 Those Duffys are gorgeous!


Lee:

I've thought of putting something on the front barrels to smooth the flow
however I haven't found anything yet that is strong enough to take the odd
run a ground or hitting a rock.  I'm gonna keep looking though, would be
nice to even try something experimental just to see how much of an
improvement there would be.  The series/ parallel I have also thought about
(like wiring two subwoofers up in parallel to an amp) but wasn't sure if
damage would occur to the motors.  However now that someone else has
suggested it means that my thoughts weren't completely crazy. Would I be
able to reduce/ increase power to the motors to steer?  If not, I could save
this feature for straight line holeshots or surfboard steering :-)  Would
this increase speed, reduce load, or both?

Thank you everyone!

Dan




On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dan Baker wrote:
> > my first EV...
>
> It looks great, Dan! Simple and straightforward so it actually got done,
> yet with enough of the details right so it really works. Congratulations!
>
> Comments in case you're in the mood to keep tinkering: I wonder if you
> could improve speed and reduce power by adding a prow to each row of
> barrels, and a semi-circular sheet of plastic over the bottom of them to
> smooth the flow.
>
> On speed control. The simplest method is to add switches or contactors
> so you can switch the two motors either in series or parallel. Parallel
> puts 12v to each for full speed. Series makes each motor run at half
> speed. This is much more efficient than using resistors for speed
> control, and doesn't create any ultrasonic noises like a PWM controller.
>
> --
> Lee A. Hart             | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N           | Forget the perfect offering
> Sartell MN 56377        | There is a crack in everything
> leeahart earthlink.net  | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

joe-22
In reply to this post by Dan Baker
Neat idea, Dan! That should give you a lot of pleasure, for sure!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [hidden email]




----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Baker" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 8:54 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!


> Hello,
> First of all sorry if I mispost this somehow, newbie to list alert!
> I found this list after I finished my first EV, however I definitely want
> to
> share my build and learn from everyone too on theirs.  I'm hoping this
> won't
> be my last EV, thoughts are already swirling for my next one :-)
>
> Back to my first EV.  Some history:  I live on a small lake just outside
> Halifax, NS, Canada.   We have some boats- canoe, dingy, paddleboat and a
> couple of seadoos.  They are all fun however I wanted a larger craft for
> slow cruises where I could take 6-7 people out on and cruise the lake,
> fish
> etc.  The backside of the lake is now home to a nature reserve and has
> some
> really majestic views that I wanted to show friends and family.  My wife
> and
> I love the seadoos however they are noisy, polluting beasts which I'm
> constantly wrenching on (would love to EV one of them).  You can't take a
> seadoo for fishing or anyone else with you without presuming that someone
> is getting wet.  Canoes and paddle boats tend to be dryer but also have
> cons
> with speed and capacity.  So I got the notion I wanted a pontoon boat,
> seemed to fit my requirements  However, costs were a concern as well as
> getting into and out of the water.  I have a boat launch which I made as
> environmentally friendly as possible (washed pebble, minimal incursion
> into
> the water, etc) however it is quite steep and a bit rocky below
> the waterline.  I can get seadoos and floating docks in and out but a
> pontoon boat would surely have problems being launched and retrieved.  So
> I
> decided to build my own, a poor man's pontoon boat.
>
> All in told it took me less that 6 weeks from start to a
> cruising finish however I have been "accessorising" for a little while
> now.
> Being under a budget (2000-2500 CAD) and some quick time lines, I didn't
> go
> with EV components like controllers, multi volt EV motors and used as much
> off the shelf components I could retrofit.  For example the motors are 12V
> duramax 32 lb thrust trolling that I mounted on the back and relocated the
> tops (control section) to central console.  I ran 6 gauge wire from the
> tops
> to bottoms.  I kept the voltage at 12 volts as not to electrocute anyone
> and
> used fuses everywhere.  The end result is a very simple drive line that
> works surprisingly well.  It also steers the boat through skid steering
> (tank like control).  Overall I'm extremely happy with the build and
> everyone that has seen it asks a thousand questions.  I've had a fishing
> party on it already and have had countless evening tours, the 900 LED
> lighting it up very well at night.  It's near silence on the water allows
> me
> to crawl up on wildlife (even they are curious of it) and I can't remember
> having a quiet conversation on a boat at full throttle!
>
> I have posted some pics on picassa.  Build is here:
> http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/BoatBuild#
> Some cruise pics are here:
> http://picasaweb.google.ca/vmdano/FireflyCruises
> #
>
> I have submitted a page to the evalbum but it hasn't been posted yet (not
> sure why) but understand that these things take time.  If anyone has any
> questions I will be sure to answer as best and when possible, however be
> prepared to answer my questions when I start reading your threads too!
>
> Thank you,
> Dan
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Dan Baker
On 8/29/2010 8:35 AM, Dan Baker wrote:
> Yes these would be excellent PM controllers, however they cost as much
> or more than the motors (paid $100 each + tax for them at local store).

One source of cheap (in all senses of the word) controllers are junked
electric scooters. They generally have two 12v batteries in series, and
so are 24v input. They drive a single 24v motor, but in your case, you
can connect the two 12v motors in series and the controller won't know
the difference.

You'll want to measure the actual current that the motors draw, and pick
a controller that can deliver at least this much (preferably 2 or 3
times more if you're using Chinese controllers). A "250 watt" controller
means 250w/24v = 10.4 amps max. If you really have 410 watt motors, they
would draw 410w/12v = 34.2 amps, but I suspect that is marketing baloney.

> Of course the next step might be to go with a single motor
> retrofitted to an old outboard bottom end

A friend of mine has done just that. I think it's an old 24v floor
scrubber motor, rated at roughly 2 HP, mated to a dead outboard motor's
lower end. It worked out extremely well.

> Once I ever get the solar panel built, it will put out 280 watts
> in full sunshine. Since a leisure boat spends 99% of it's life parked the panel should
> keep the batteries charged for weekend excursions.

That's a reasonable strategy. But again, I'd be surprised if the PV
panels ever deliver their rated power.

> I think I have found a way to build them but I need to find some
>tempered glass. I've seen others just glue the cells face down (by
> their backs only) to the glass with a corrosion free watertight
> silicone.

This works, but you need the right sealant. I used Dow Corning 1-2577
conformal coating, which is rated for this application. Lay the cells
face down on the glass, wire them up, and test them. Make a dam around
the edges of the glass with tape, level it, then pour about 1/8" of
1-2577 on it. Look on the bottom, and slide and move the cells as needed
to work out any air bubbles between the cells and glass. When it cures,
you'll have a waterproof assembly that won't degrade or yellow with age
and from UV light.

> I've thought of putting something on the front barrels to smooth the flow
> however I haven't found anything yet that is strong enough to take the odd
> run a ground or hitting a rock.

My cousin built a boat rather like yours, except he made the pontoons
out of plywood for each side. They were square of course. :-) Just a
ramp in the front. But then he filled them with that self-expanding foam
insulation. Beware; it expands quite forcefully; his first attempt
pushed the sides off the plywood pontoons!

So, I imagine you could slice the end from your front barrels, force it
flat with some bolts, and then blow it full of this foam. This would
give you a point on the front, yet it would still be "unsinkable".

> Would I be able to reduce/increase power to the motors to steer?

Generally yes. Electric motors are pretty tough, and can easily run at
2x rated voltage and current for a short time. The propellers might
cavitate though if you run them too fast.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

rumleyfips
Dan:

I have been cutting my lawn ( Oxford Nova Scotia) charging with solar panels
all summer. Images at evalbum.com/3340. I don't like the panel design but I
think I have a better idea. My new panels have 42 cells siliconed to a 1/4
sheet of plywood. The corners of old aluminum windows are cut , glass
siliconed in and the windows screwed to the plywood. They put out about 23
volts each ( I haven't used them to charge, so I have no amperage data.

The panels are for a Japanes Kei truck project if I ever get the truck I
have been promised. I want to use 96 volts in the truck, charge with 126v
nominal solar and integrate the truck pack with the 96v batteries for my
wind turbine.

John McManus
[hidden email]
447-3500
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8/29/2010 8:35 AM, Dan Baker wrote:
> > Yes these would be excellent PM controllers, however they cost as much
> > or more than the motors (paid $100 each + tax for them at local store).
>
> One source of cheap (in all senses of the word) controllers are junked
> electric scooters. They generally have two 12v batteries in series, and
> so are 24v input. They drive a single 24v motor, but in your case, you
> can connect the two 12v motors in series and the controller won't know
> the difference.
>
> You'll want to measure the actual current that the motors draw, and pick
> a controller that can deliver at least this much (preferably 2 or 3
> times more if you're using Chinese controllers). A "250 watt" controller
> means 250w/24v = 10.4 amps max. If you really have 410 watt motors, they
> would draw 410w/12v = 34.2 amps, but I suspect that is marketing baloney.
>
> > Of course the next step might be to go with a single motor
> > retrofitted to an old outboard bottom end
>
> A friend of mine has done just that. I think it's an old 24v floor
> scrubber motor, rated at roughly 2 HP, mated to a dead outboard motor's
> lower end. It worked out extremely well.
>
> > Once I ever get the solar panel built, it will put out 280 watts
> > in full sunshine. Since a leisure boat spends 99% of it's life parked the
> panel should
> > keep the batteries charged for weekend excursions.
>
> That's a reasonable strategy. But again, I'd be surprised if the PV
> panels ever deliver their rated power.
>
> > I think I have found a way to build them but I need to find some
> >tempered glass. I've seen others just glue the cells face down (by
> > their backs only) to the glass with a corrosion free watertight
> > silicone.
>
> This works, but you need the right sealant. I used Dow Corning 1-2577
> conformal coating, which is rated for this application. Lay the cells
> face down on the glass, wire them up, and test them. Make a dam around
> the edges of the glass with tape, level it, then pour about 1/8" of
> 1-2577 on it. Look on the bottom, and slide and move the cells as needed
> to work out any air bubbles between the cells and glass. When it cures,
> you'll have a waterproof assembly that won't degrade or yellow with age
> and from UV light.
>
> > I've thought of putting something on the front barrels to smooth the flow
> > however I haven't found anything yet that is strong enough to take the
> odd
> > run a ground or hitting a rock.
>
> My cousin built a boat rather like yours, except he made the pontoons
> out of plywood for each side. They were square of course. :-) Just a
> ramp in the front. But then he filled them with that self-expanding foam
> insulation. Beware; it expands quite forcefully; his first attempt
> pushed the sides off the plywood pontoons!
>
> So, I imagine you could slice the end from your front barrels, force it
> flat with some bolts, and then blow it full of this foam. This would
> give you a point on the front, yet it would still be "unsinkable".
>
> > Would I be able to reduce/increase power to the motors to steer?
>
> Generally yes. Electric motors are pretty tough, and can easily run at
> 2x rated voltage and current for a short time. The propellers might
> cavitate though if you run them too fast.
>
> --
>  Lee A. Hart             | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N           | Forget the perfect offering
> Sartell MN 56377        | There is a crack in everything
> leeahart earthlink.net  | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Dan Baker
Hey Lee,

Yeah I suspect my motors aren't 32 amps a piece, although I do have a 60 amp
fuse that feeds both motors that did pop once, not sure if something shorted
or just a surge when I turned the key on and both were set on.      I might
have to look into these PM controllers more.  I'm pretty happy with the
speed, especially considering it's a brick I'm pushing through water.  The
foam sounds interesting, might be willing to try that in the off season.
Initially I thought with barrels I could partially fill them with water if
the boat was tippy however it is far from that.

Thanks John and Lee for the design info on solar panels.  Right now I have
some 1/2 inch pressure treated plywood and some 1/8 inch acyclic plastic
clear in 4x8 sheets.  I like your
panels John, seem to what I was thinking on building however a lot of web
info seems to point to that plywood isn't watertight and the cells are very
suspect to corrode easily.  How long have you had your panels built- have
you had issues with moisture?  Lee, is the glass you glued down to
tempered?  I'm trying to find some recycled as buying new is definitely not
cost effective, wondering if I could use regular glass.  I don't think I
will get the 280 watts of full power but then again I don't need all that to
begin with.  I'm charging the boat with a cheap car charger that does 12 or
2 amps. Rarely do I charge at 12, usually plug it in at night on weekends on
2 and it's usually charged back up even after a good day of play.  The
biggest benifit I see with solar is I hopefully won't have to plug in it
anymore or nearly as much, it can be a pain plugging it in and the charger
has to stay outside which worries me around wet weather and the odd beaver
:-)  Last night I was out cruising trying to take some night shots and two
of them were literally circling the boat, glad I made it out of PT wood
and not something tastier!   I believe it's all the lights that kept
attracting them.

John, whenever you are in Halifax you are welcome to stop by and go for a
cruise (as well as anyone else, just give me some heads up).  Unfortunately
my season might be cut short this year as there is now a hurricane now
pointed at us.  I spent yesterday working on my makeshift trailer so
hopefully i will be able to slip it in and out a little easier.




On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM, John McManus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dan:
>
> I have been cutting my lawn ( Oxford Nova Scotia) charging with solar
> panels
> all summer. Images at evalbum.com/3340. I don't like the panel design but
> I
> think I have a better idea. My new panels have 42 cells siliconed to a 1/4
> sheet of plywood. The corners of old aluminum windows are cut , glass
> siliconed in and the windows screwed to the plywood. They put out about 23
> volts each ( I haven't used them to charge, so I have no amperage data.
>
> The panels are for a Japanes Kei truck project if I ever get the truck I
> have been promised. I want to use 96 volts in the truck, charge with 126v
> nominal solar and integrate the truck pack with the 96v batteries for my
> wind turbine.
>
> John McManus
> [hidden email]
> 447-3500
>  On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 8/29/2010 8:35 AM, Dan Baker wrote:
> > > Yes these would be excellent PM controllers, however they cost as much
> > > or more than the motors (paid $100 each + tax for them at local store).
> >
> > One source of cheap (in all senses of the word) controllers are junked
> > electric scooters. They generally have two 12v batteries in series, and
> > so are 24v input. They drive a single 24v motor, but in your case, you
> > can connect the two 12v motors in series and the controller won't know
> > the difference.
> >
> > You'll want to measure the actual current that the motors draw, and pick
> > a controller that can deliver at least this much (preferably 2 or 3
> > times more if you're using Chinese controllers). A "250 watt" controller
> > means 250w/24v = 10.4 amps max. If you really have 410 watt motors, they
> > would draw 410w/12v = 34.2 amps, but I suspect that is marketing baloney.
> >
> > > Of course the next step might be to go with a single motor
> > > retrofitted to an old outboard bottom end
> >
> > A friend of mine has done just that. I think it's an old 24v floor
> > scrubber motor, rated at roughly 2 HP, mated to a dead outboard motor's
> > lower end. It worked out extremely well.
> >
> > > Once I ever get the solar panel built, it will put out 280 watts
> > > in full sunshine. Since a leisure boat spends 99% of it's life parked
> the
> > panel should
> > > keep the batteries charged for weekend excursions.
> >
> > That's a reasonable strategy. But again, I'd be surprised if the PV
> > panels ever deliver their rated power.
> >
> > > I think I have found a way to build them but I need to find some
> > >tempered glass. I've seen others just glue the cells face down (by
> > > their backs only) to the glass with a corrosion free watertight
> > > silicone.
> >
> > This works, but you need the right sealant. I used Dow Corning 1-2577
> > conformal coating, which is rated for this application. Lay the cells
> > face down on the glass, wire them up, and test them. Make a dam around
> > the edges of the glass with tape, level it, then pour about 1/8" of
> > 1-2577 on it. Look on the bottom, and slide and move the cells as needed
> > to work out any air bubbles between the cells and glass. When it cures,
> > you'll have a waterproof assembly that won't degrade or yellow with age
> > and from UV light.
> >
> > > I've thought of putting something on the front barrels to smooth the
> flow
> > > however I haven't found anything yet that is strong enough to take the
> > odd
> > > run a ground or hitting a rock.
> >
> > My cousin built a boat rather like yours, except he made the pontoons
> > out of plywood for each side. They were square of course. :-) Just a
> > ramp in the front. But then he filled them with that self-expanding foam
> > insulation. Beware; it expands quite forcefully; his first attempt
> > pushed the sides off the plywood pontoons!
> >
> > So, I imagine you could slice the end from your front barrels, force it
> > flat with some bolts, and then blow it full of this foam. This would
> > give you a point on the front, yet it would still be "unsinkable".
> >
> > > Would I be able to reduce/increase power to the motors to steer?
> >
> > Generally yes. Electric motors are pretty tough, and can easily run at
> > 2x rated voltage and current for a short time. The propellers might
> > cavitate though if you run them too fast.
> >
> > --
> >  Lee A. Hart             | Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave N           | Forget the perfect offering
> > Sartell MN 56377        | There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart earthlink.net  | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Lee Hart
On 8/30/2010 1:30 PM, Dan Baker wrote:
> Yeah I suspect my motors aren't 32 amps a piece, although I do have a
> 60 amp fuse that feeds both motors that did pop once, not sure if
> something shorted or just a surge when I turned the key on and both
> were set on.

Motors draw a huge surge of current when you first start them. It can
easily be 5-10 times normal running current for a fraction of a second.
Most fuses are built to handle a brief overload like this without
blowing; but when *two* motors are started the current could well be
high enough to blow a 60a fuse.

If you add an electronic controller, it will prevent this inrush current
surge. The motor will start slowly, rather than leap up to full speed
immediately. Easier on the fuses and controller; but the motor doesn't
really care.

> The foam sounds interesting, might be willing to try that in the off
> season.

Experiment with it in a disposable container first. Like I said, my
cousin wrecked his first set of plywood pontoons because it expanded so
forcefully.

> Thanks John and Lee for the design info on solar panels.  Right now I
> have some 1/2 inch pressure treated plywood and some 1/8 inch acyclic
> plastic clear in 4x8 sheets.

Plastics get damaged by UV radiation. Acrylics get brittle, yellow a
bit, and develop lots of little cracks. This is why glass is preferred.

> Lee, is the glass you glued down to tempered?

Mine are plain old double-strength window glass. If it gets broken, the
solar cells are going to also get broken too, whether it is safety glass
or not. So you might as well use the cheaper stuff (unless you are
worried about glass shards cutting someone).

> The biggest benefit I see with solar is I hopefully won't have to plug
> in it anymore or nearly as much

Yes, I think a 280w panel will definitely cut way back on the need for
AC charging (even if it only delivers half its rated power). If
anything, you may want to add a charge controller so the PV panels can't
*over* charge the batteries.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Dennis Miles
In reply to this post by Dan Baker
Regarding the solar panels if you want inexpensive tempered glass use
sliding glass door panels they are cheep as salvage, when the doors are
upgraded . check with your local home center to find out who they recommend
as a contractor to replace them then ask the contractor to save some for
you. I got 4 free for the hauling them away.  To make plywood waterproof
paint it with glossy trim paint.  We use paint for a vapor barrier, in
Florida!
Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles   (Director)     E.V.T.I. inc.
www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM    (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
   It’s estimated that the existing U.S. electrical grid has sufficient
capacity to fully fuel three-quarters of the nation’s 217 million passenger
vehicles.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Dan Baker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey Lee,
>
> Yeah I suspect my motors aren't 32 amps a piece, although I do have a 60
> amp
> fuse that feeds both motors that did pop once, not sure if something
> shorted
> or just a surge when I turned the key on and both were set on.      I might
> have to look into these PM controllers more.  I'm pretty happy with the
> speed, especially considering it's a brick I'm pushing through water.  The
> foam sounds interesting, might be willing to try that in the off season.
> Initially I thought with barrels I could partially fill them with water if
> the boat was tippy however it is far from that.
>
> Thanks John and Lee for the design info on solar panels.  Right now I have
> some 1/2 inch pressure treated plywood and some 1/8 inch acyclic plastic
> clear in 4x8 sheets.  I like your
> panels John, seem to what I was thinking on building however a lot of web
> info seems to point to that plywood isn't watertight and the cells are very
> suspect to corrode easily.  How long have you had your panels built- have
> you had issues with moisture?  Lee, is the glass you glued down to
> tempered?  I'm trying to find some recycled as buying new is definitely not
> cost effective, wondering if I could use regular glass.  I don't think I
> will get the 280 watts of full power but then again I don't need all that
> to
> begin with.  I'm charging the boat with a cheap car charger that does 12 or
> 2 amps. Rarely do I charge at 12, usually plug it in at night on weekends
> on
> 2 and it's usually charged back up even after a good day of play.  The
> biggest benifit I see with solar is I hopefully won't have to plug in it
> anymore or nearly as much, it can be a pain plugging it in and the charger
> has to stay outside which worries me around wet weather and the odd beaver
> :-)  Last night I was out cruising trying to take some night shots and two
> of them were literally circling the boat, glad I made it out of PT wood
> and not something tastier!   I believe it's all the lights that kept
> attracting them.
>
> John, whenever you are in Halifax you are welcome to stop by and go for a
> cruise (as well as anyone else, just give me some heads up).  Unfortunately
> my season might be cut short this year as there is now a hurricane now
> pointed at us.  I spent yesterday working on my makeshift trailer so
> hopefully i will be able to slip it in and out a little easier.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM, John McManus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Dan:
> >
> > I have been cutting my lawn ( Oxford Nova Scotia) charging with solar
> > panels
> > all summer. Images at evalbum.com/3340. I don't like the panel design
> but
> > I
> > think I have a better idea. My new panels have 42 cells siliconed to a
> 1/4
> > sheet of plywood. The corners of old aluminum windows are cut , glass
> > siliconed in and the windows screwed to the plywood. They put out about
> 23
> > volts each ( I haven't used them to charge, so I have no amperage data.
> >
> > The panels are for a Japanes Kei truck project if I ever get the truck I
> > have been promised. I want to use 96 volts in the truck, charge with 126v
> > nominal solar and integrate the truck pack with the 96v batteries for my
> > wind turbine.
> >
> > John McManus
> > [hidden email]
> > 447-3500
> >  On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 8/29/2010 8:35 AM, Dan Baker wrote:
> > > > Yes these would be excellent PM controllers, however they cost as
> much
> > > > or more than the motors (paid $100 each + tax for them at local
> store).
> > >
> > > One source of cheap (in all senses of the word) controllers are junked
> > > electric scooters. They generally have two 12v batteries in series, and
> > > so are 24v input. They drive a single 24v motor, but in your case, you
> > > can connect the two 12v motors in series and the controller won't know
> > > the difference.
> > >
> > > You'll want to measure the actual current that the motors draw, and
> pick
> > > a controller that can deliver at least this much (preferably 2 or 3
> > > times more if you're using Chinese controllers). A "250 watt"
> controller
> > > means 250w/24v = 10.4 amps max. If you really have 410 watt motors,
> they
> > > would draw 410w/12v = 34.2 amps, but I suspect that is marketing
> baloney.
> > >
> > > > Of course the next step might be to go with a single motor
> > > > retrofitted to an old outboard bottom end
> > >
> > > A friend of mine has done just that. I think it's an old 24v floor
> > > scrubber motor, rated at roughly 2 HP, mated to a dead outboard motor's
> > > lower end. It worked out extremely well.
> > >
> > > > Once I ever get the solar panel built, it will put out 280 watts
> > > > in full sunshine. Since a leisure boat spends 99% of it's life parked
> > the
> > > panel should
> > > > keep the batteries charged for weekend excursions.
> > >
> > > That's a reasonable strategy. But again, I'd be surprised if the PV
> > > panels ever deliver their rated power.
> > >
> > > > I think I have found a way to build them but I need to find some
> > > >tempered glass. I've seen others just glue the cells face down (by
> > > > their backs only) to the glass with a corrosion free watertight
> > > > silicone.
> > >
> > > This works, but you need the right sealant. I used Dow Corning 1-2577
> > > conformal coating, which is rated for this application. Lay the cells
> > > face down on the glass, wire them up, and test them. Make a dam around
> > > the edges of the glass with tape, level it, then pour about 1/8" of
> > > 1-2577 on it. Look on the bottom, and slide and move the cells as
> needed
> > > to work out any air bubbles between the cells and glass. When it cures,
> > > you'll have a waterproof assembly that won't degrade or yellow with age
> > > and from UV light.
> > >
> > > > I've thought of putting something on the front barrels to smooth the
> > flow
> > > > however I haven't found anything yet that is strong enough to take
> the
> > > odd
> > > > run a ground or hitting a rock.
> > >
> > > My cousin built a boat rather like yours, except he made the pontoons
> > > out of plywood for each side. They were square of course. :-) Just a
> > > ramp in the front. But then he filled them with that self-expanding
> foam
> > > insulation. Beware; it expands quite forcefully; his first attempt
> > > pushed the sides off the plywood pontoons!
> > >
> > > So, I imagine you could slice the end from your front barrels, force it
> > > flat with some bolts, and then blow it full of this foam. This would
> > > give you a point on the front, yet it would still be "unsinkable".
> > >
> > > > Would I be able to reduce/increase power to the motors to steer?
> > >
> > > Generally yes. Electric motors are pretty tough, and can easily run at
> > > 2x rated voltage and current for a short time. The propellers might
> > > cavitate though if you run them too fast.
> > >
> > > --
> > >  Lee A. Hart             | Ring the bells that still can ring
> > > 814 8th Ave N           | Forget the perfect offering
> > > Sartell MN 56377        | There is a crack in everything
> > > leeahart earthlink.net  | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
> > >
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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Myles Twete
In reply to this post by Bill Dube
Bill offered: You should keep in mind that if you run a controller, you will
no
longer be silent to wildlife. They can hear the 16.6 kHz of the PWM
quite clearly. Eva, my wife, can hear that high and finds many
electronic devices load and annoying, as will your furry friends.

Sure.  But not all animals and controllers are the same.  On my boat I'm
running with an ALLTRAX 48v controller at 36v and don't have any of the
"curtis whine".  Perhaps there's some whine that I don't hear, but despite
that, I was able to attract, hook and land a 22# salmon from my boat earlier
this year, so it can't be too bad.  Further, harbor seals or sea lions on
the Columbia River and other critters seem to prefer the electric over other
boats.

-myles twete
The Reach Of Tide electric barge cruiser: www.evalbum.com/492


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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
BTW,

Just last month Dow Corning released a new pottant for
solar cells.
I have no experience with it (yet) but they claim that
it has lower viscosity (I presume to make handling easier
and get less air bubbles around the cells) while after
curing the remaining film is identical to the 1-2577
pottant. It is numbered 1-2620:
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/etronics/etronicscoat/etronics_cc_solo
v.asp  


Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:45 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

On 8/29/2010 8:35 AM, Dan Baker wrote:
> Yes these would be excellent PM controllers, however they cost as much

> or more than the motors (paid $100 each + tax for them at local
store).

One source of cheap (in all senses of the word) controllers are junked
electric scooters. They generally have two 12v batteries in series, and
so are 24v input. They drive a single 24v motor, but in your case, you
can connect the two 12v motors in series and the controller won't know
the difference.

You'll want to measure the actual current that the motors draw, and pick
a controller that can deliver at least this much (preferably 2 or 3
times more if you're using Chinese controllers). A "250 watt" controller
means 250w/24v = 10.4 amps max. If you really have 410 watt motors, they
would draw 410w/12v = 34.2 amps, but I suspect that is marketing
baloney.

> Of course the next step might be to go with a single motor retrofitted

> to an old outboard bottom end

A friend of mine has done just that. I think it's an old 24v floor
scrubber motor, rated at roughly 2 HP, mated to a dead outboard motor's
lower end. It worked out extremely well.

> Once I ever get the solar panel built, it will put out 280 watts in
> full sunshine. Since a leisure boat spends 99% of it's life parked the

> panel should keep the batteries charged for weekend excursions.

That's a reasonable strategy. But again, I'd be surprised if the PV
panels ever deliver their rated power.

> I think I have found a way to build them but I need to find some
>tempered glass. I've seen others just glue the cells face down (by  
>their backs only) to the glass with a corrosion free watertight  
>silicone.

This works, but you need the right sealant. I used Dow Corning 1-2577
conformal coating, which is rated for this application. Lay the cells
face down on the glass, wire them up, and test them. Make a dam around
the edges of the glass with tape, level it, then pour about 1/8" of
1-2577 on it. Look on the bottom, and slide and move the cells as needed
to work out any air bubbles between the cells and glass. When it cures,
you'll have a waterproof assembly that won't degrade or yellow with age
and from UV light.

> I've thought of putting something on the front barrels to smooth the
> flow however I haven't found anything yet that is strong enough to
> take the odd run a ground or hitting a rock.

My cousin built a boat rather like yours, except he made the pontoons
out of plywood for each side. They were square of course. :-) Just a
ramp in the front. But then he filled them with that self-expanding foam
insulation. Beware; it expands quite forcefully; his first attempt
pushed the sides off the plywood pontoons!

So, I imagine you could slice the end from your front barrels, force it
flat with some bolts, and then blow it full of this foam. This would
give you a point on the front, yet it would still be "unsinkable".

> Would I be able to reduce/increase power to the motors to steer?

Generally yes. Electric motors are pretty tough, and can easily run at
2x rated voltage and current for a short time. The propellers might
cavitate though if you run them too fast.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Currentways Battery Charger???

Jeff Major
http://www.currentways.com/our-products/air-cooled.html 

Has anyone heard of or had any experience with these guys?

Thanks,

Jeff M


     

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Re: Currentways Battery Charger???

Douglas A. Stansfield-2
Jeff,

I haven't purchased one but know that they will be advertising in the next
issue of the EAA newsletter CURRENT EVENTS.

Their chargers are isolated and can be put in series so they have a pretty
innovative charger.

Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com
973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS



 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Jeff Major
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 2:22 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Currentways Battery Charger???

http://www.currentways.com/our-products/air-cooled.html 

Has anyone heard of or had any experience with these guys?

Thanks,

Jeff M


     

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Re: Hello/ new to the scene/ my wooden electric boat!

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
On 11/1/2010 1:04 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Just last month Dow Corning released a new pottant for
> solar cells.
> I have no experience with it (yet) but they claim that
> it has lower viscosity (I presume to make handling easier
> and get less air bubbles around the cells) while after
> curing the remaining film is identical to the 1-2577
> pottant. It is numbered 1-2620:
> http://www.dowcorning.com/content/etronics/etronicscoat/etronics_cc_solo
> v.asp

Thanks, Cor! I have used 1-2577 for years, so it's good to know of this
improved version.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: Currentways Battery Charger???

Roger Stockton
In reply to this post by Douglas A. Stansfield-2
Douglas A. Stansfield wrote:

> Their chargers are isolated and can be put in series so they
> have a pretty innovative charger.

Their literature indicates that the charger outputs can be connected in *parallel*; I didn't see any mention of supporting connection of the outputs in series.

What are you building that you need a charger output higher than 450V? ;^>

Cheers,

Roger.

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Re: Currentways Battery Charger???

Douglas A. Stansfield-2
Dear Roger,

My mistake.  Sorry.  Thanks for catching that Roger.  I don't rep for them
so to everyone please read their statements on their website for product
claims.

The Level 3 chargers that Coulomb is installing at various institutions will
be 480v.  So if you want to "FAST CHARGE" I suppose you will need a charger
that can handle that much voltage.  I just have no idea what a fast charge
at that voltage will do to a pack of batteries.  I think my Trojan T1275s in
my EV will boil to death at that voltage.


Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com
973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS





-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 4:37 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Currentways Battery Charger???

Douglas A. Stansfield wrote:

> Their chargers are isolated and can be put in series so they
> have a pretty innovative charger.

Their literature indicates that the charger outputs can be connected in
*parallel*; I didn't see any mention of supporting connection of the outputs
in series.

What are you building that you need a charger output higher than 450V? ;^>

Cheers,

Roger.

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