How to do a Cross US EV trip

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How to do a Cross US EV trip

jerryd



          Hi All,
             It isn't that hard a thing to do, one could
even do it fairly fast in lead batts.
              How is using a Sunrise, Freedom EV optimized
would get under 100wthr/mile. The Sunrise EV for range could
pack enough stock lead to get 150 mile usable range, the
Freedom about 120miles+. The Freedom might be able to get as
low as 70wthr/mile optimised at 55mph, especially with a
Li-ion pack.
              Then you just need  30-50amp, 240vac outlets.
These could be arranged by say using campgrounds or someone
like 7-11, Walmart as sponsors for having the power outlets
ready. At 50 amps/240vac you can  charge at the 120mph rate
so drive 1-2 hrs and charge .5-1hr would with a co driver be
able to cross the US in about 100 hrs without any support
vehicles.
              Now using Li-ion both could easily carry a
50kw pack allowing 400+ miles between charges though they
would take longer, about 4hrs.
              With a little planning it could be easily done
on not much money. Other EV's could be an old or race
chassis under an Aero kitcar body could easily do this or a
Karman Ghia with li-ions.  
               The secret is a very low drag EV that can
carry 55% battery weight or more can do this on lead.

The Aptera is a good group of people who are really doing a
good EV. I talked to, helped them with their early EV drive
problems and talked composites and was impressed with them,
their pragmatic approach. As far as crash protection,
probably not bad from the stuff I learned about. The shape
is a high speed racing Human power vehicle one I believe
they adopted.  
 
                                Jerry Dycus







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Re: How to do a Cross US EV trip

Edward Ang
I still don't see the point of trying to do a cross US EV trip.  EV's
are NOT designed to take long trips.  Their advantages shine in local
errands and commuting.

This is like someone trying to promote a Hummer H2 by showing how it
could be driven indoors without killing everyone from CO poisoning.
This is not what it is designed to do.  Not that it is designed for
off-road use either.  But, that is another story.

On 1/3/08, jerryd <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
>          Hi All,
>             It isn't that hard a thing to do, one could
> even do it fairly fast in lead batts.
>              How is using a Sunrise, Freedom EV optimized
> would get under 100wthr/mile. The Sunrise EV for range could
> pack enough stock lead to get 150 mile usable range, the
> Freedom about 120miles+. The Freedom might be able to get as
> low as 70wthr/mile optimised at 55mph, especially with a
> Li-ion pack.
>              Then you just need  30-50amp, 240vac outlets.
> These could be arranged by say using campgrounds or someone
> like 7-11, Walmart as sponsors for having the power outlets
> ready. At 50 amps/240vac you can  charge at the 120mph rate
> so drive 1-2 hrs and charge .5-1hr would with a co driver be
> able to cross the US in about 100 hrs without any support
> vehicles.
>              Now using Li-ion both could easily carry a
> 50kw pack allowing 400+ miles between charges though they
> would take longer, about 4hrs.
>              With a little planning it could be easily done
> on not much money. Other EV's could be an old or race
> chassis under an Aero kitcar body could easily do this or a
> Karman Ghia with li-ions.
>               The secret is a very low drag EV that can
> carry 55% battery weight or more can do this on lead.
>
> The Aptera is a good group of people who are really doing a
> good EV. I talked to, helped them with their early EV drive
> problems and talked composites and was impressed with them,
> their pragmatic approach. As far as crash protection,
> probably not bad from the stuff I learned about. The shape
> is a high speed racing Human power vehicle one I believe
> they adopted.
>
>                                Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


--
Edward Ang

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Re: How to do a Cross US EV trip

Myles Twete
In reply to this post by jerryd
Okay, you don't see the point of a cross country normal speed EV trip.
But to go from not understanding the point of it to concluding that EVs are just not designed to take long trips is a 3000mile stretch.

Rather than a Hummer vs EV analogy, the better analogy would be between a Lotus Elise traveling across country along with a Tesla.  The only reason that the Elise makes it across much quicker is that gasoline infrastructure already exists, while 200kw recharge stations do not.  In a head-head race, with sufficient charging infrastructure and a high enough charge rate charger and batt pack, the race would be on.  And the point would clearly be that it's not a technological challenge, only an infrastructure one and ultimately only a challenge of will.

-MT, Portland, Or.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Edward Ang" <[hidden email]>

> I still don't see the point of trying to do a cross US EV trip. EV's
> are NOT designed to take long trips. Their advantages shine in local
> errands and commuting.
>
> This is like someone trying to promote a Hummer H2 by showing how it
> could be driven indoors without killing everyone from CO poisoning.
> This is not what it is designed to do. Not that it is designed for
> off-road use either. But, that is another story.
>
> On 1/3/08, jerryd wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> > It isn't that hard a thing to do, one could
> > even do it fairly fast in lead batts.
> > How is using a Sunrise, Freedom EV optimized
> > would get under 100wthr/mile. The Sunrise EV for range could
> > pack enough stock lead to get 150 mile usable range, the
> > Freedom about 120miles+. The Freedom might be able to get as
> > low as 70wthr/mile optimised at 55mph, especially with a
> > Li-ion pack.
> > Then you just need 30-50amp, 240vac outlets.
> > These could be arranged by say using campgrounds or someone
> > like 7-11, Walmart as sponsors for having the power outlets
> > ready. At 50 amps/240vac you can charge at the 120mph rate
> > so drive 1-2 hrs and charge .5-1hr would with a co driver be
> > able to cross the US in about 100 hrs without any support
> > vehicles.
> > Now using Li-ion both could easily carry a
> > 50kw pack allowing 400+ miles between charges though they
> > would take longer, about 4hrs.
> > With a little planning it could be easily done
> > on not much money. Other EV's could be an old or race
> > chassis under an Aero kitcar body could easily do this or a
> > Karman Ghia with li-ions.
> > The secret is a very low drag EV that can
> > carry 55% battery weight or more can do this on lead.
> >
> > The Aptera is a good group of people who are really doing a
> > good EV. I talked to, helped them with their early EV drive
> > problems and talked composites and was impressed with them,
> > their pragmatic approach. As far as crash protection,
> > probably not bad from the stuff I learned about. The shape
> > is a high speed racing Human power vehicle one I believe
> > they adopted.
> >
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 
> >
>
>
> --
> Edward Ang
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 
_______________________________________________
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Re: How to do a Cross US EV trip

Edward Ang-2
Say you have a 200kW charging station every 30 miles or so on the
Interstates.  From the San Fancisco to LA is about 400 miles.  You
will need about 14 stations.  And, say 10 cars (5 from each direction)
are fuelling at the same time at each station at anytime, you will
need to supply 200kW x 10 x 14 = 28 MW.  This is only a short I5 from
SF to LA.  Now, imagine you want to cover the entire nations with
these stations.  You electrical grid is simply not able to support
this load.  FYI:  The typical peak electrical load this time of the
year for the entire state of California is only 32,000 MW
(http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html).

Now, try doing this in the summer time when the grid is maxed out.

Don't get me wrong.  I own an EV technology company
(www.airlabcorp.com).  And, I commute in my Nimh Sparrow (> 40,000
miles now).  I fully support the EV cause.  I just don't think showing
the weakest point of an EV is a wise way to promote EV's.  But, for
long distant travels, nothing could beat the high energy density of a
liquid fuel.

On the other hand, for local errands and for commuting, nothing beats
the overnight charging in the comfort of the garage.

On 1/3/08, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Okay, you don't see the point of a cross country normal speed EV trip.
> But to go from not understanding the point of it to concluding that EVs are
> just not designed to take long trips is a 3000mile stretch.
>
> Rather than a Hummer vs EV analogy, the better analogy would be between a
> Lotus Elise traveling across country along with a Tesla.  The only reason
> that the Elise makes it across much quicker is that gasoline infrastructure
> already exists, while 200kw recharge stations do not.  In a head-head race,
> with sufficient charging infrastructure and a high enough charge rate
> charger and batt pack, the race would be on.  And the point would clearly be
> that it's not a technological challenge, only an infrastructure one and
> ultimately only a challenge of will.
>
> -MT, Portland, Or.
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Edward Ang" <[hidden email]>
>
> > I still don't see the point of trying to do a cross US EV trip. EV's
> > are NOT designed to take long trips. Their advantages shine in local
> > errands and commuting.
> >
> > This is like someone trying to promote a Hummer H2 by showing how it
> > could be driven indoors without killing everyone from CO poisoning.
> > This is not what it is designed to do. Not that it is designed for
> > off-road use either. But, that is another story.
> >
> > On 1/3/08, jerryd wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > > It isn't that hard a thing to do, one could
> > > even do it fairly fast in lead batts.
> > > How is using a Sunrise, Freedom EV optimized
> > > woul! d get u nder 100wthr/mile. The Sunrise EV for range could
>
> > > pack enough stock lead to get 150 mile usable range, the
> > > Freedom about 120miles+. The Freedom might be able to get as
> > > low as 70wthr/mile optimised at 55mph, especially with a
> > > Li-ion pack.
> > > Then you just need 30-50amp, 240vac outlets.
> > > These could be arranged by say using campgrounds or someone
> > > like 7-11, Walmart as sponsors for having the power outlets
> > > ready. At 50 amps/240vac you can charge at the 120mph rate
> > > so drive 1-2 hrs and charge .5-1hr would with a co driver be
> > > able to cross the US in about 100 hrs without any support
> > > vehicles.
> > > Now using Li-ion both could easily carry a
> > > 50kw pack allowing 400+ miles between charges though they
> > > would take longer, about 4hrs.
> > > With a little planning it could be easily done
> > ! > on not much money. Other EV's could be an old or race
> > > chassis under an Aero kitcar body could easily do this or a
> > > Karman Ghia with li-ions.
> > > The secret is a very low drag EV that can
> > > carry 55% battery weight or more can do this on lead.
> > >
> > > The Aptera is a good group of people who are really doing a
> > > good EV. I talked to, helped them with their early EV drive
> > > problems and talked composites and was impressed with them,
> > > their pragmatic approach. As far as crash protection,
> > > probably not bad from the stuff I learned about. The shape
> > > is a high speed racing Human power vehicle one I believe
> > > they adopted.
> > >
> > > Jerry Dycus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subsc! ription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Edward Ang
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


--
Edward Ang
AIR Lab Corp

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Re: How to do a Cross US EV trip

Zeke Yewdall
On Jan 3, 2008 3:48 PM, Edward Ang <[hidden email]> wrote:
> But, for
> long distant travels, nothing could beat the high energy density of a
> liquid fuel.

Or electric trains running on really long extension cords (overhead wires).

>
> On the other hand, for local errands and for commuting, nothing beats
> the overnight charging in the comfort of the garage.

Yeah... going to the gas station can be a hassle, but the car is
almost always in the garage every night...

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