IP65-rated charger?

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IP65-rated charger?

Henry Palonen
Hello,

Any suggestions on IP65 protected charger?

Output in the range of 1.5-3 kW. Preferably small size. It will be mounted to motorcycle so there will be plenty of spray-water flying around. We have 220V outlets and BMS wants to control either current or voltage with analog output.

Now I'm using 2x IP21 800W chargrs and I think they won't survive long in harsh envinronment with spray water flying around. I habe build some protection but it would be better to have proper IP protection 'build in'.

--
Henkka

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Re: IP65-rated charger?

Henry Palonen
Sorry - forgot to mention pack voltage = ~100V max charge voltage.

--
Henkka
Sent from iPhone

Henry Palonen <[hidden email]> kirjoitti 4.8.2010 kello 9.22:

> Hello,
>
> Any suggestions on IP65 protected charger?
>
> Output in the range of 1.5-3 kW. Preferably small size. It will be mounted to motorcycle so there will be plenty of spray-water flying around. We have 220V outlets and BMS wants to control either current or voltage with analog output.
>
> Now I'm using 2x IP21 800W chargrs and I think they won't survive long in harsh envinronment with spray water flying around. I habe build some protection but it would be better to have proper IP protection 'build in'.
>
> --
> Henkka

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Re: IP65-rated charger?

Travis Gintz
small and 1.5-3kw might be mutually exclusive. Especially if you want
waterproof.

I know that DeltaQ chargers go to 96V (they can be programmed for lifepo4 at
32cells in series). They're 1000W chargers and waterproof (they're IP46).
I've got a 96V charger programmed for 32s6p of headways.

I think Elcon makes some too, a litttle bigger, not user programmable.

what kind of batteries are you using that can charge at 15-30A?

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Henry Palonen <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Sorry - forgot to mention pack voltage = ~100V max charge voltage.
>
> --
> Henkka
> Sent from iPhone
>
> Henry Palonen <[hidden email]> kirjoitti 4.8.2010 kello 9.22:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Any suggestions on IP65 protected charger?
> >
> > Output in the range of 1.5-3 kW. Preferably small size. It will be
> mounted to motorcycle so there will be plenty of spray-water flying around.
> We have 220V outlets and BMS wants to control either current or voltage with
> analog output.
> >
> > Now I'm using 2x IP21 800W chargrs and I think they won't survive long in
> harsh envinronment with spray water flying around. I habe build some
> protection but it would be better to have proper IP protection 'build in'.
> >
> > --
> > Henkka
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>



--
Travis Gintz
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Re: IP65-rated charger?

Lee Hart
Henry Palonen<[hidden email]>wrote:
>> pack voltage ~100V max charge voltage.
>> Any suggestions on IP65 protected charger?
>> Output in the range of 1.5-3 kW. Preferably small size. It will be
>> mounted to motorcycle... 220VAC outlets and BMS wants to control either current or voltage with
>> analog output.

Travis Gintz wrote:
 > small and 1.5-3kw might be mutually exclusive. Especially if you want
 > waterproof.

I agree. If you can't find an (affordable) commercial charger, it may be
a job for a "bad boy" type charger. Bridge rectifier off the AC line,
series inductor to limit the current, and phase-controlled "light
dimmer" in series with its analog pot replaced with a light dependent
resistor and an LED on it that the BMS can use to control current or
voltage. Include GMCI, fuses etc. for safety, of course.

None of this requires a circuit board, parts susceptible to water
damage, or that need much cooling. It could all be potted, or mounted in
a sealed metal box.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: IP65-rated charger?

Henry Palonen
In reply to this post by Travis Gintz

Travis Gintz kirjoitti 4.8.2010 kello 19.03:

> small and 1.5-3kw might be mutually exclusive. Especially if you want
> waterproof.

Yes usually so. It was more space efficient to have few small chargers in paraller than one big with Finnish "PowerFinn" chargers - their 1.6 kW model was bigger than 2 x 800W model. Still, they don't have anything properly IP-rated.

I have recently got my hands on an charger that was suprisingly small, about 1/3 of the size of other 3.2 kW chargers we have (PAC3200's). It's the Eltek Valere's 3kW CAN controlled charger [1]. We have one sample at TEVC and it certainly is a very small piece of equipment, about 30W per Inch^3 (1.8 kW per liter).  It's the same charger that is used in Think. But it usually requires water cooling or big cooling element. And then I should make some CAN-adapter for connecting it to the Stybrook BMS. The version we have has no water-proofing  but as I looked again to the web-pages, they have different casing for that model that is IP67 rated. It could very well be one option if I can't find other suitable chargers.
 
> I know that DeltaQ chargers go to 96V (they can be programmed for lifepo4 at
> 32cells in series). They're 1000W chargers and waterproof (they're IP46).
> I've got a 96V charger programmed for 32s6p of headways.

Ok, I will look for these, output voltage is ok and IP46 could be just fine.

> I think Elcon makes some too, a litttle bigger, not user programmable.
>
> what kind of batteries are you using that can charge at 15-30A?


For now, cells from the first batch of TS LFP30's ever made - so quite old and "thousands of cycles" in them (thanks goes to Jukka Järvinen for the cells)... Currently I'm currently building a pack using Kokam 70Ah (SLPB 60460330H) cells, 22 of them. They can be charged at 2C rates, so charge currents up to 140A are ok. When used with LFP30's, current has to be turned down.

In TEVC I have 5 units of 1.5 kW 40-60V telecom power supplies and I'm thinking sort of "quick charge" station for "homebase", just to test the concept and to say "it's possible to charge in 1 hr" when various visitors and media comes by and ask how long it takes to charge. That will need 2 x 16A@220V sockets and suitable "trolley" where that stack of 4 x 1.5 kW chargers can be pushed right beside the bike. It would be 2s2p configuration and would give about 1C charge rate. I'll look at that during wintertime.

But I would very much like to have smaller charger(s) onboard also.  

Thanks for the tip regarding DeltaQ and for Lee's "bad boy" charger. I'll definitely look at DeltaQ.

[1] http://www.eltekvalere.com/wip4/e-mobility/c/detail.epl?cat=18541

With very best regards,

Henkka


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Re: IP65-rated charger?

Jeffrey Jenkins
In reply to this post by Travis Gintz
Travis Gintz wrote
I know that DeltaQ chargers go to 96V (they can be programmed for lifepo4 at
32cells in series). They're 1000W chargers and waterproof (they're IP46).
I've got a 96V charger programmed for 32s6p of headways.
Hey Travis - you sure that IP rating for your DeltaQ isn't the other way around? I can't imagine how something could resist powerful water jets yet only be able to block dust/foreign objects greater than 1mm in size?!?  

(As an aside for those not familiar, IP ratings are supposed to codify standard levels of "Ingress Protection". The first number is for dust/foreign object ingress (fingers, tools, insects, etc.) while the second is for water (dripping, splashing, etc.). The Wikipedia entry is pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code

It's generally a good idea that anything mounted in the engine compartment of a vehicle be rated to at least IP54, btw. The higher ratings on the second number are more nebulous/less meaningful, in my opinion. Nobody really knows what "powerful jets" means - a garden hose nozzle set to "stream" or a 3500psi pressure washer??? Big difference between those two!)


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Re: IP65-rated charger?

Travis Gintz
Jeffrey,

IP46 is an IP Level 6 waterproof enclosure. The IP46 (NEMA4) came straight
off of their datasheet.
http://delta-q.com/products/QuiQ-datasheet.pdf

The first digit includes hazardous parts (in this case conductors on the
connectors). This prevents objects larger than 1mm from touching conductors.
Straight from your Wikipedia link:
"The first digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure
provides against access to hazardous parts (e.g., electrical conductors,
moving parts) and the ingress of solid foreign objects."

the second deals with Protection of the equipment inside the enclosure
against harmful ingress of water. In this case, its a level 6.

It can have a larger second number than the first. I deal (and have dealt)
with IP and NEMA enclosures for quite some time in my work (food processing,
lumber processing, lighting control) and I know it gets confusing, but the I
think you're confusing NEMA and IP. One number is distinguish the ability of
objects to come into contact with harmful parts (including conductors/risk
of shock). The other is its water protection.

I prefer the NEMA rating personally. A little easier to distinguish its
protection.

The defintion for NEMA 4 is:
"nclosures constructed for either indoor or outdoor use to provide a degree
of protection to personnel against access to hazardous parts; to provide a
degree of protection of the equipment inside the enclosure against ingress
of solid foreign objects (falling dirt and windblown dust); to provide a
degree of protection with respect to harmful effects on the equipment due to
the ingress of water (rain, sleet, snow, splashing water, and hose directed
water); and that will be undamaged by the external formation of ice on the
enclosure."

Regards,
Travis

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Jeffrey Jenkins
<[hidden email]>wrote:

>
>
> Travis Gintz wrote:
> >
> > I know that DeltaQ chargers go to 96V (they can be programmed for lifepo4
> > at
> > 32cells in series). They're 1000W chargers and waterproof (they're IP46).
> > I've got a 96V charger programmed for 32s6p of headways.
> >
>
> Hey Travis - you sure that IP rating for your DeltaQ isn't the other way
> around? I can't imagine how something could resist powerful water jets yet
> only be able to block dust/foreign objects greater than 1mm in size?!?
>
> (As an aside for those not familiar, IP ratings are supposed to codify
> standard levels of "Ingress Protection". The first number is for
> dust/foreign object ingress (fingers, tools, insects, etc.) while the
> second
> is for water (dripping, splashing, etc.). The Wikipedia entry is pretty
> good:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code
>
> It's generally a good idea that anything mounted in the engine compartment
> of a vehicle be rated to at least IP54, btw. The higher ratings on the
> second number are more nebulous/less meaningful, in my opinion. Nobody
> really knows what "powerful jets" means - a garden hose nozzle set to
> "stream" or a 3500psi pressure washer??? Big difference between those two!)
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/IP65-rated-charger-tp2312986p2314634.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
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--
Travis Gintz
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Re: IP65-rated charger?

Jeffrey Jenkins
Travis Gintz wrote
The first digit includes hazardous parts (in this case conductors on the
connectors). This prevents objects larger than 1mm from touching conductors.
...
It can have a larger second number than the first. I deal (and have dealt)
with IP and NEMA enclosures for quite some time in my work (food processing,
lumber processing, lighting control) and I know it gets confusing, but the I
think you're confusing NEMA and IP...
D'oh! You are absolutely right, Travis. I totally forgot about exposed terminals - mostly because I don't usually design things with them (the Soliton1 is an exception - and even then I argued for protected terminals for the battery and motor connections) and, yes, I have mainly worked with NEMA ratings. I do like the IP rating system.

Anyway, thanks for pointing that out.

-Jeffrey