Inline or Parallel Motor configuration

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Inline or Parallel Motor configuration

Joe Plumer
Sorry if the terminology is incorrect I'm still learning.

Is there an advantage to running two of the same motors inline over running
them in
parallel?

If they are parallel (side by side) how much loss is associated with the
coupling of the
two motors in this way instead of mounting them inline?

Thanks for the input.

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Re: Inline or Parallel Motor configuration

Jeff Major

Hi Joe,

My take is the end to end method, coupled shafts or on
the same shaft, would essentially be zero coupling
loss.  And the side by side method would have some
coupling loss, in the chain or gears or whatever.  But
that loss should be very small and be associated with
just half the total power.

Overall, if you use a good chain or gears, I really do
not think you'd be able to tell the difference in
efficency between the two methods.  My guess is
something maybe like 1 percent.  Choice is usually
dictated by space constraints in the vehicle.

The Killacycle uses the side-by-side with a chain.
White Zombie uses the end-to-end, on the same shaft.
Take a look at those web sites.

Hope that helps,

Jeff M



--- Joe Plumer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry if the terminology is incorrect I'm still
> learning.
>
> Is there an advantage to running two of the same
> motors inline over running
> them in
> parallel?
>
> If they are parallel (side by side) how much loss is
> associated with the
> coupling of the
> two motors in this way instead of mounting them
> inline?
>
> Thanks for the input.
>



       
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Re: Inline or Parallel Motor configuration

Marty Hewes
Anybody know if the DE bearings are sized to handle the side loads that must
be created by the belt or chain, or are there additional external bearings
used to handle that when motors are coupled side to side?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Major" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Inline or Parallel Motor configuration


>
> Hi Joe,
>
> My take is the end to end method, coupled shafts or on
> the same shaft, would essentially be zero coupling
> loss.  And the side by side method would have some
> coupling loss, in the chain or gears or whatever.  But
> that loss should be very small and be associated with
> just half the total power.
>
> Overall, if you use a good chain or gears, I really do
> not think you'd be able to tell the difference in
> efficency between the two methods.  My guess is
> something maybe like 1 percent.  Choice is usually
> dictated by space constraints in the vehicle.
>
> The Killacycle uses the side-by-side with a chain.
> White Zombie uses the end-to-end, on the same shaft.
> Take a look at those web sites.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
> --- Joe Plumer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Sorry if the terminology is incorrect I'm still
>> learning.
>>
>> Is there an advantage to running two of the same
>> motors inline over running
>> them in
>> parallel?
>>
>> If they are parallel (side by side) how much loss is
>> associated with the
>> coupling of the
>> two motors in this way instead of mounting them
>> inline?
>>
>> Thanks for the input.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail,
> news, photos & more.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


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Re: Inline or Parallel Motor configuration

paulceps-2
> Anybody know if the DE bearings are sized to handle the side loads that
> must
> be created by the belt or chain, or are there additional external bearings
> used to handle that when motors are coupled side to side?

This one comes up time and time again on the list.

The DE bearings tend to be pretty beefy.

The highest load rating for a deep groove ball race is the radial (sideways)
one. Go look it up on any bearing site. The axial loading is also about 25%
of that, so isn't in any danger from the end loading from any sane poundage
clutch plate, so lets put that one to bed as well.

Take a look at Otmar's 914 with a pair of 9" ADC motors belted together and
enough torque to blow a 911 type transaxle before he upgraded to a 930 turbo
one.

What has sometimes proved a problem on the Corbin Sparrow (wide belt with
quite a bit of overhang on the pulley) is that the belt loading bends the
shaft and puts a 'tilt' load on the output bearing, which can cause
premature failure.

Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named

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GEO G-29 lossing acceleration

mike golub
Hello

I connected the field to a 24 volt source, and I have
pack of 72 volts. But the car takes off, fine, but
then I'll stop, and it won't go up an incline.

Either I'm not exciting the field enough, or perhaps
the field shouldn't be turned off. I have connected it
to a relay on the microswitch on the PB-6...so maybe
that should on the fan relay. That turns on with the
key switch.

I'm also concerned about the curtis controller getting
too hot...of course, that won't be a problem next
month.

Mike
Fairbanks, Alaska

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Re: GEO G-29 lossing acceleration

Mike.B
Mike, I turn my field winding relay on with the car's
keyswitch, the field stays on until I turn off the
keyswitch.  This way, I know the field is at full
magnetic force before ever applying voltage to the
armature.   Try it like that, and you should get much
better results.  If your inclines are extreme, you
might need to increase to 36vdc on the field, but in
my particular case, 24vdc is enough torque to get over
anything that I've come across so far.

M.Barkley



--- mike golub <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I connected the field to a 24 volt source, and I
> have
> pack of 72 volts. But the car takes off, fine, but
> then I'll stop, and it won't go up an incline.
>
> Either I'm not exciting the field enough, or perhaps
> the field shouldn't be turned off. I have connected
> it
> to a relay on the microswitch on the PB-6...so maybe
> that should on the fan relay. That turns on with the
> key switch.
>
> I'm also concerned about the curtis controller
> getting
> too hot...of course, that won't be a problem next
> month.
>
> Mike
> Fairbanks, Alaska
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: GEO G-29 Curtis overheating?

mike golub
Hey that seems to work, but my curtis controller gets
hot real fast.

There's no heat sink or fan on there.

But I'll start driving and then I start to hear the
controller whine, and I get no power.

Perhaps I need to get some cooler action?

In my truck the first time I ran the truck I had the
controller on the floor of the vehicle, and it didn't
get that hot.

--- Michael Barkley <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mike, I turn my field winding relay on with the
> car's
> keyswitch, the field stays on until I turn off the
> keyswitch.  This way, I know the field is at full
> magnetic force before ever applying voltage to the
> armature.   Try it like that, and you should get
> much
> better results.  If your inclines are extreme, you
> might need to increase to 36vdc on the field, but in
> my particular case, 24vdc is enough torque to get
> over
> anything that I've come across so far.
>
> M.Barkley
>
>
>
> --- mike golub <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello
> >
> > I connected the field to a 24 volt source, and I
> > have
> > pack of 72 volts. But the car takes off, fine, but
> > then I'll stop, and it won't go up an incline.
> >
> > Either I'm not exciting the field enough, or
> perhaps
> > the field shouldn't be turned off. I have
> connected
> > it
> > to a relay on the microswitch on the PB-6...so
> maybe
> > that should on the fan relay. That turns on with
> the
> > key switch.
> >
> > I'm also concerned about the curtis controller
> > getting
> > too hot...of course, that won't be a problem next
> > month.
> >
> > Mike
> > Fairbanks, Alaska
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: GEO G-29 Curtis overheating?

Mike.B
Mike, I cool my controller by mounting as many
Pentium4 computer heatsinks and fans on the flat
surface of the controller that I could get on it. It
held 3 of them.  I wired the fans to come on with the
keyswitch.  I also took the high speed radiator fan
from the original I.C.E. days of the car, and have it
pulling in cool air & blowing that over the controller
and motor , which also turns on with the keyswitch.
I've also installed an inline bilge blower on the
motor, forcing cool air into the motor to help cool
it. All this stuff, fans, field pack, dc/dc converter
are controlled by the keyswitch through individual
bosh style 30amp relays. Check out the photos of all
this at:  www.texomaev.com , under the Eclipse link.


--- mike golub <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey that seems to work, but my curtis controller
> gets
> hot real fast.
>
> There's no heat sink or fan on there.
>
> But I'll start driving and then I start to hear the
> controller whine, and I get no power.
>
> Perhaps I need to get some cooler action?
>
> In my truck the first time I ran the truck I had the
> controller on the floor of the vehicle, and it
> didn't
> get that hot.
>
> --- Michael Barkley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Mike, I turn my field winding relay on with the
> > car's
> > keyswitch, the field stays on until I turn off the
> > keyswitch.  This way, I know the field is at full
> > magnetic force before ever applying voltage to the
> > armature.   Try it like that, and you should get
> > much
> > better results.  If your inclines are extreme, you
> > might need to increase to 36vdc on the field, but
> in
> > my particular case, 24vdc is enough torque to get
> > over
> > anything that I've come across so far.
> >
> > M.Barkley
> >
> >
> >
> > --- mike golub <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello
> > >
> > > I connected the field to a 24 volt source, and I
> > > have
> > > pack of 72 volts. But the car takes off, fine,
> but
> > > then I'll stop, and it won't go up an incline.
> > >
> > > Either I'm not exciting the field enough, or
> > perhaps
> > > the field shouldn't be turned off. I have
> > connected
> > > it
> > > to a relay on the microswitch on the PB-6...so
> > maybe
> > > that should on the fan relay. That turns on with
> > the
> > > key switch.
> > >
> > > I'm also concerned about the curtis controller
> > > getting
> > > too hot...of course, that won't be a problem
> next
> > > month.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > Fairbanks, Alaska
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: GEO G-29 Curtis overheating?

EVDL Administrator
On 17 Aug 2007 at 3:16, Michael Barkley wrote:

> [Three] Pentium4 computer heatsinks and fans on the flat
> surface of the controller ...  the high speed radiator fan
> from the original I.C.E. days of the car ... an inline bilge blower on the
> motor ...

I hate to ask it, but doesn't that make the car awfully noisy?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: GEO G-29 Curtis overheating?

Seppo
In reply to this post by mike golub
Are you sure that your field voltage (and thus field current) is not
too small? That would make the motor back voltage too small, especially
in slow speeds,  and you would get correspondingly very large motor
current that would make Curtis overheat?

Can you try increasing the field voltage to see what happens?

Seppo

>
>> Hey that seems to work, but my curtis controller
>> gets
>> hot real fast.
>>
>> There's no heat sink or fan on there.
>>
>> But I'll start driving and then I start to hear the
>> controller whine, and I get no power.
>>
>> Perhaps I need to get some cooler action?
>>
>> In my truck the first time I ran the truck I had the
>> controller on the floor of the vehicle, and it
>> didn't
>> get that hot.
>>
>> --- Michael Barkley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Mike, I turn my field winding relay on with the
>> > car's
>> > keyswitch, the field stays on until I turn off the
>> > keyswitch.  This way, I know the field is at full
>> > magnetic force before ever applying voltage to the
>> > armature.   Try it like that, and you should get
>> > much
>> > better results.  If your inclines are extreme, you
>> > might need to increase to 36vdc on the field, but
>> in
>> > my particular case, 24vdc is enough torque to get
>> > over
>> > anything that I've come across so far.
>> >
>> > M.Barkley
>> >
>> >

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Re: GEO G-29 Curtis overheating?

Mike.B
In reply to this post by EVDL Administrator
Not really, I'd rather hear the hum of cooling
airflow, than the smell of smoke from the electronics
frying - LOL

I can barely hear any of this inside the car, and most
say to me, when I "START" the car with the keyswitch
while they are standing beside the car;  "Is that all
it does when you start it up?" Then I drive off into
the sunset.....

M.Barkley
www.texomaev.com


--- David Roden <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 17 Aug 2007 at 3:16, Michael Barkley wrote:
>
> > [Three] Pentium4 computer heatsinks and fans on
> the flat
> > surface of the controller ...  the high speed
> radiator fan
> > from the original I.C.E. days of the car ... an
> inline bilge blower on the
> > motor ...
>
> I hate to ask it, but doesn't that make the car
> awfully noisy?
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses
> will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain
> my
> email address from the webpage
> http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
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>

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