Large vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

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Large vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Hi Willie etc,

 

It's hard to find actual published Tesla battery failure numbers since Tesla
sends internal field service guys "Tesla Rangers" out to your house to
replace any bad cells that the car radios help for. When I was at a EV race
about 5 years ago, I asked three Tesla owners if they had any Tesla Rangers
come out to their homes in the past year for battery issues.  All three
raised their hands.  While this business model of impeccable field service
may work for high priced vehicles/wealthy customers, I don't see how it can
be *sustained* for lower priced Model-3's (set to come out next year).

 

Best Regards,

Mark in Roanoke VA

 

Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 06:24:04 -0500

From: Willie <[hidden email]>

 

On 09/08/2018 09:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> Well, does anyone have actual numbers regarding failures of Teslas?

> Overall, they've been out long enough that "we" should know if there are

> reliability problems or not. On my part, I have not heard of any

> widespread Tesla failure. What reliability problems is C.S. referring to?

 

Anecdotal, but I know of quite of few Ss that have had their batteries

replaced/repaired in warranty.  On my ~130k mile 2013 S, the battery was

recently changed.  There was no real obvious issue but the Tesla service

people said it should be changed.  Range was still above 90% of original

and I had not complained of range loss; I considered the loss

reasonable.  I would guess 30-50% of Tesla with more than 100k miles

have had their batteries replaced.  Probably all under warranty; I have

heard of no one who had to buy a battery.  Fact is, cost of replacement

in generally unknown.  It seems Tesla is not replacing with new

batteries.  In some cases they install a loaner battery while the faulty

battery is being refurbished.  In other cases they replace with a

refurbished battery.   I assume the refurbishment involves replacing a

smallish number of bad cells.

 

Much in contrast to Nissan, the battery replacements are painless; as

mentioned, I did not even know I had a battery problem but Tesla was

eager to make it right.  Nissan refuses to replace obviously bad batteries.

 

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Re: Large vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

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On 09/09/2018 08:04 PM, mark hanson via EV wrote:

> Hi Willie etc,
>
>  
>
> It's hard to find actual published Tesla battery failure numbers since Tesla
> sends internal field service guys "Tesla Rangers" out to your house to
> replace any bad cells that the car radios help for. When I was at a EV race
> about 5 years ago, I asked three Tesla owners if they had any Tesla Rangers
> come out to their homes in the past year for battery issues.  All three
> raised their hands.  While this business model of impeccable field service
> may work for high priced vehicles/wealthy customers, I don't see how it can
> be *sustained* for lower priced Model-3's (set to come out next year).

I'm SURE the ranger service will change 12v batteries; that's something
that has to be done as often as yearly and is a couple of hour job.  But
removing and opening the battery case is a BIG job.  In fact, I don't
believe service centers open battery boxes.  Certainly, it is not done
in the owner's driveway.  All battery repairs that I know of have been
sent to California.

Tesla DOES seem to be moving to more ranger service and I contend it is
likely more cost effective than getting cars into the service centers
and then managing all the cars/jobs.  Not to mention being FAR more
convenient to the car buyers.   Generally, service centers supply
loaners; that HAS to be very expensive since the loaners are mostly new
high end cars.  The loaners may eventually get discounted with a few
thousand miles by $5k-$10k and sold as "inventory".

I REALLY hope/believe that we are not far from the point where the cars
will be driving themselves to service centers and then driving
themselves home after repair.


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Re: Large vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Where do you live I already drive a model three. It has different cells than the model s

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 9, 2018, at 8:04 PM, mark hanson via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Willie etc,
>
>
>
> It's hard to find actual published Tesla battery failure numbers since Tesla
> sends internal field service guys "Tesla Rangers" out to your house to
> replace any bad cells that the car radios help for. When I was at a EV race
> about 5 years ago, I asked three Tesla owners if they had any Tesla Rangers
> come out to their homes in the past year for battery issues.  All three
> raised their hands.  While this business model of impeccable field service
> may work for high priced vehicles/wealthy customers, I don't see how it can
> be *sustained* for lower priced Model-3's (set to come out next year).
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark in Roanoke VA
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 06:24:04 -0500
>
> From: Willie <[hidden email]>
>
>
>
>> On 09/08/2018 09:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>
>> Well, does anyone have actual numbers regarding failures of Teslas?
>
>> Overall, they've been out long enough that "we" should know if there are
>
>> reliability problems or not. On my part, I have not heard of any
>
>> widespread Tesla failure. What reliability problems is C.S. referring to?
>
>
>
> Anecdotal, but I know of quite of few Ss that have had their batteries
>
> replaced/repaired in warranty.  On my ~130k mile 2013 S, the battery was
>
> recently changed.  There was no real obvious issue but the Tesla service
>
> people said it should be changed.  Range was still above 90% of original
>
> and I had not complained of range loss; I considered the loss
>
> reasonable.  I would guess 30-50% of Tesla with more than 100k miles
>
> have had their batteries replaced.  Probably all under warranty; I have
>
> heard of no one who had to buy a battery.  Fact is, cost of replacement
>
> in generally unknown.  It seems Tesla is not replacing with new
>
> batteries.  In some cases they install a loaner battery while the faulty
>
> battery is being refurbished.  In other cases they replace with a
>
> refurbished battery.   I assume the refurbishment involves replacing a
>
> smallish number of bad cells.
>
>
>
> Much in contrast to Nissan, the battery replacements are painless; as
>
> mentioned, I did not even know I had a battery problem but Tesla was
>
> eager to make it right.  Nissan refuses to replace obviously bad batteries.
>
>
>
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>

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