Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

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Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

brucedp5

Here is a tidbit you might find interesting about Level-1 charging on the Leaf EV. I request more experienced members to correct my numbers / errors on below.

I did some research on trying to help an Aptos Leaf EV driver make better use the level-1 outlets in Monterey. His Leaf EV's level-1 EVSE only draws 12A AC, yet almost all 120VAC level-1 sources in this area are on a 20A breaker.

I thought what if the driver used a level-1 EVSE that drew 16A AC.
(Using 110VAC to account for a voltage drop under load)

110VAC * 12A = 1.32kW or 5.5 miles back into his 24kW 100-mile Leaf pack for every hour of level-1 @12A charging up to 80% SOC.

110VAC * 16A = 1.76kW or 7.3 miles back into his 24kW 100-mile Leaf pack for every hour of level-1 @16A charging up to 80% SOC.

An eight hour period, either overnight or while at work, would regain

44 miles at the 12A level-1 rate or

58.4 miles at the 16A level-1 rate

*That is a ~30% increase in charging ability!

There is a product where a company takes the level-1 EVSE that comes with the Leaf EV and upgrades & reprograms it to be able to operate at both a 120VAC and 220VAC which provides more charging power: level-1 1.3kW and level-2 (either 2.8kW or 3.3kW).

The second higher kW ability is a second model they offer that instead of the regular 12A AC draw Nissan designed for, they bumped the programming up to have it draw 16A AC (cool - more power Scotty!).


But in talking to http://evseupgrade.com , they let me know that their revision-2 model can supply 16A AC on level-1 but the Leaf EV's on-board charger can only draw 12A AC in level-1 mode ... (bummer).

So, the most level-1 AC current a Leaf EV will draw is 12A no matter what EVSE is supplying the level-1.

I find this weak/lame. With all the 20A level-1 sources around and to be limited to a 12A level-1 ability (assumes all level-1 sources are on a 15A  breaker) does not make sense. All plug-in vehicles should be able to tap all the power that is made available to them.

Now, I am curious if this unique to the Leaf EV's on-board charger design, or are all Production plug-in vehicles going to do this?


{brucedp.150m.com}
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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

Cruisin
Public chargers limit the Level 1 110v charge to 15a output thats why.
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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

brucedp5
No, that is not true. The level-1 outlets in Coulomb EVSE are 20A. See
the pdf below where is states it provides 16A. You get 16A draw off a
20A breakered outlet.
http://evo2go.com/wp-content/themes/Cms/CT2100-Data-Sheet-sept2010.pdf


{brucedp.150m.com}



-
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012, at 11:32 AM, Cruisin wrote:
> Public chargers limit the Level 1 110v charge to 15a output thats why.
-

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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by brucedp5
I'm obviously no insider, but my WAG is that this is done to make sure that
those doing opportunity charging are less apt to throw a breaker.  It could
be as much for using a general purpose 20a circuit, which may be shared with
other loads, as for a 15a circuit where the EV is the exclusive load.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

brucedp5
There are lots of reasons Automakers went with the lowest amperage
breaker, but I am calling out to allow a 2 tier level-1 charging
ability:
- switchable so that it could work off a 15A breaker,
- or off a 20A breakered outlet.

When over 90% of the oultets here are 20A, 30% improved charging rate is
a terrible thing to lose.


{brucedp.150m.com}

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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

tesla198
In reply to this post by brucedp5
Actual experience: plugged portable EVSE (which defaults to 16A) into a
NEMA 5-20 port on a dual-ported Coulomb station (L1 + L2) in downtown
SanFrancisco in June2012.  A minute or two later received a TXT message of
"overcurrent detected".  On the Roadster VDS manually dialed down to 12A.
Charged successfully for about 2 hours at the reduced level.  Said portable
EVSE works fine on 20A household circuits.  The TXT notification was from
the Coulomb network.  Next to me a Ford Ranger was already charging on the
Level 2 port.  Unsure if that made a difference.  And not sure how much
current he was pulling.

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 9:41 AM, brucedp5 <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Here is a tidbit you might find interesting about Level-1 charging on the
> Leaf EV. I request more experienced members to correct my numbers / errors
> on below.
>
> I did some research on trying to help an Aptos Leaf EV driver make better
> use the level-1 outlets in Monterey. His Leaf EV's level-1 EVSE only draws
> 12A AC, yet almost all 120VAC level-1 sources in this area are on a 20A
> breaker.
>
> I thought what if the driver used a level-1 EVSE that drew 16A AC.
> (Using 110VAC to account for a voltage drop under load)
>
> 110VAC * 12A = 1.32kW or 5.5 miles back into his 24kW 100-mile Leaf pack
> for
> every hour of level-1 @12A charging up to 80% SOC.
>
> 110VAC * 16A = 1.76kW or 7.3 miles back into his 24kW 100-mile Leaf pack
> for
> every hour of level-1 @16A charging up to 80% SOC.
>
> An eight hour period, either overnight or while at work, would regain
>
> 44 miles at the 12A level-1 rate or
>
> 58.4 miles at the 16A level-1 rate
>
> *That is a ~30% increase in charging ability!
>
> There is a product where a company takes the level-1 EVSE that comes with
> the Leaf EV and upgrades & reprograms it to be able to operate at both a
> 120VAC and 220VAC which provides more charging power: level-1 1.3kW and
> level-2 (either 2.8kW or 3.3kW).
>
> The second higher kW ability is a second model they offer that instead of
> the regular 12A AC draw Nissan designed for, they bumped the programming up
> to have it draw 16A AC (cool - more power Scotty!).
>
>
> But in talking to http://evseupgrade.com , they let me know that their
> revision-2 model can supply 16A AC on level-1 but the Leaf EV's on-board
> charger can only draw 12A AC in level-1 mode ... (bummer).
>
> So, the most level-1 AC current a Leaf EV will draw is 12A no matter what
> EVSE is supplying the level-1.
>
> I find this weak/lame. With all the 20A level-1 sources around and to be
> limited to a 12A level-1 ability (assumes all level-1 sources are on a 15A
> breaker) does not make sense. All plug-in vehicles should be able to tap
> all
> the power that is made available to them.
>
> Now, I am curious if this unique to the Leaf EV's on-board charger design,
> or are all Production plug-in vehicles going to do this?
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-EV-level-1-mode-morsel-tp4657660.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

brucedp5
tesla198 's actual experience is valuable because when we have no other
info other than specs, real-life trials show the variables/truth.

When I was at the Creekside Inn in Palo Alto, CA and they were
installing a dual level-1 & 2 Coulomb EVSE, the installer blueprint
generated by Coulomb specified that the AC input wiring was to be
separate (fed from a 40A double pole breaker and from a 20A single pole
breaker).

Both power sources must be flowing through and sensed by the Coulomb
EVSE's internal circuitry.

I assume the portable EVSE tesla198 used is one that was designed for
the Tesla, and not the EVSE Upgrade retrofit product I previously
mentioned. If so, there may be some other variables because of
differences between the two portable level-1 EVSE.

If both portable level-1 EVSE operated identically, and only drew 16A
AC, why did that Coulomb EVSE generate an over current error. The
breaker is 20A, the EVSE is rated at providing 16A, and the built-in
outlet is a 5-20r (the kind that can take either a 5-20 or 5-15 plug).

Interesting ... Thanks tesla198 for sharing.


{brucedp.150m.com}



-
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012, at 11:04 PM, tesla198 wrote:

> Actual experience: plugged portable EVSE (which defaults to 16A) into a
> NEMA 5-20 port on a dual-ported Coulomb station (L1 + L2) in downtown
> SanFrancisco in June2012.  A minute or two later received a TXT message
> of
> "overcurrent detected".  On the Roadster VDS manually dialed down to 12A.
> Charged successfully for about 2 hours at the reduced level.  Said
> portable
> EVSE works fine on 20A household circuits.  The TXT notification was from
> the Coulomb network.  Next to me a Ford Ranger was already charging on
> the
> Level 2 port.  Unsure if that made a difference.  And not sure how much
> current he was pulling.
-

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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

tesla198
The portable EVSE was a RFMC (Roadster Foundry Mobile Charger) designed and
built by the man himself (Martin Eberhard).  At 120V it defaults to 16A
pilot signal, and at 240/208V it defaults to what the pig-tail used tells
it (NEMA 14-30 = 24A, 10-30 = 24A, 14-50 = 40A, etc).

A standard Roadster Spare Mobile Connector defaults to 15A not requiring a
pilot signal (the pilot is grounded).

HTH :-)

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> tesla198 's actual experience is valuable because when we have no other
> info other than specs, real-life trials show the variables/truth.
>
> ....
>


> I assume the portable EVSE tesla198 used is one that was designed for
> the Tesla, and not the EVSE Upgrade retrofit product I previously
> mentioned. If so, there may be some other variables because of
> differences between the two portable level-1 EVSE.
>
> If both portable level-1 EVSE operated identically, and only drew 16A
> AC, why did that Coulomb EVSE generate an over current error. The
> breaker is 20A, the EVSE is rated at providing 16A, and the built-in
> outlet is a 5-20r (the kind that can take either a 5-20 or 5-15 plug).
>
> Interesting ... Thanks tesla198 for sharing.
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

Rush Dougherty
My TucsonEV-SE is based upon  Martin's Roadster Foundry Mobile Charger. Not
as sophisticated as his, just 3 charging choices and I have a  contactor in
mine, his didn't.

See www.TucsonEV.com/TucsonEV-SE.html.

Thanks
Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of tesla198
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 3:33 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel
>
> The portable EVSE was a RFMC (Roadster Foundry Mobile Charger) designed
> and built by the man himself (Martin Eberhard).  At 120V it defaults to
16A
> pilot signal, and at 240/208V it defaults to what the pig-tail used tells
it

> (NEMA 14-30 = 24A, 10-30 = 24A, 14-50 = 40A, etc).
>
> A standard Roadster Spare Mobile Connector defaults to 15A not requiring a
> pilot signal (the pilot is grounded).
>
> HTH :-)
>
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > tesla198 's actual experience is valuable because when we have no
> > other info other than specs, real-life trials show the variables/truth.
> >
> > ....
> >
>
>
> > I assume the portable EVSE tesla198 used is one that was designed for
> > the Tesla, and not the EVSE Upgrade retrofit product I previously
> > mentioned. If so, there may be some other variables because of
> > differences between the two portable level-1 EVSE.
> >
> > If both portable level-1 EVSE operated identically, and only drew 16A
> > AC, why did that Coulomb EVSE generate an over current error. The
> > breaker is 20A, the EVSE is rated at providing 16A, and the built-in
> > outlet is a 5-20r (the kind that can take either a 5-20 or 5-15 plug).
> >
> > Interesting ... Thanks tesla198 for sharing.
> >
> >
> > {brucedp.150m.com}
> >
> >
> >
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Re: Leaf EV level-1 mode morsel

brucedp5
In reply to this post by brucedp5
>Now, I am curious if this unique to the Leaf EV's on-board charger design, or are all Production plug-in vehicles going to do this? <

So, my original post's question (above) will need the help of other Production EV/pih drivers. If they can measure the AC current being drawn by their portable level-1 EVSE and post to the evdl, we could know which EVSE are pumping 16A by design.

Later, if anyone of those drivers are adventurous, connect an EVSE upgrade rev2 (16A model) to their vehicle and see what AC current it draws.

It might be that like the Tesla Roadster, other Production Plug-in vehicles can also charge at the higher 16A level-1 rate.


{brucedp.150m.com}