Leaf recommendations?

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Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Hi, folks,

I just got a new job, which is going to have me making changes.
So far, my commute has been adequately met by my GEM e2.

Now I'm looking at 42 miles one way, mainly freeway with a bit of stop
and go at the end.
I'm thinking that, while this might be pushing it a bit, a 2013+ Nissan
Leaf SL might just make it, and I'm liking the pricing I see on used
ones with under 30k miles.

Am I being foolish? What else should I be careful to observe should I
try to buy one?

Thanks!

Best regards,
-- Cal Frye,
 www.calfrye.com <http://www.touchstonehumanists.org/>

"As business replaces civil society, advertising is taking over the
cultural functions that used to be filled by the left. . . . We used to
have movements for change; now we have products." -- Thomas Frank.
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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
You'll need to charge at work in order to make the round trip and, from
time to time, have some excess for a lunch run-around or detours on the
way home.

I have a 2011 Leaf and have found it completely reliable and fine. (Some
gripes, but overall very good.) However, the range decreases
significantly in winter (Seattle) with the A/C and heat on to keep the
humidity down. Also the battery in my model is unheated. My range in
summer is probably about 70+. In winter I get 50ish on a full charge.

You will probably get better mileage than I since you will have a
significant portion on freeway whereas most of my driving is stop & go
at 25-30 mph.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Cal Frye via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc:
Sent: 28-Nov-16 7:05:20 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?

>Hi, folks,
>
>I just got a new job, which is going to have me making changes.
>So far, my commute has been adequately met by my GEM e2.
>
>Now I'm looking at 42 miles one way, mainly freeway with a bit of stop
>and go at the end.
>I'm thinking that, while this might be pushing it a bit, a 2013+ Nissan
>Leaf SL might just make it, and I'm liking the pricing I see on used
>ones with under 30k miles.
>
>Am I being foolish? What else should I be careful to observe should I
>try to buy one?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Best regards,
>-- Cal Frye,
>  www.calfrye.com <http://www.touchstonehumanists.org/>
>
>"As business replaces civil society, advertising is taking over the
>cultural functions that used to be filled by the left. . . . We used to
>have movements for change; now we have products." -- Thomas Frank.
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>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Cal,
I have a 2013 Leaf S
(which I know is not as efficient as an SL)
My commute is 27 to 30 miles depending
on traffic-avoidance maneuvers.

The 24 KWh battery is adequate for me
in Spring, Summer, and Fall.

In the winter, I use more local streets,
I preheat the car and use seat warmers
rather than "air conditioning heat".

I am in a carpool, so I "offer" to drive
the warmest day.

I am discussing whether to buy a 2016 next month.
I would probably lose a bit of money on the trade,
and a 2016 is about a month from becoming
deprecated, so I am really not sure.
The one year that I need next year's car now,
they are not coming out now.


I showed my manager a picture of an outlet
across the parking lot in the same office park.
Clearly, if there is a will, there is a way to convince
the Realty company to do it.   My manager will
ask the CIO to push for it.
The Model 3 might be out before that :-)


One day last week, I had to drive 2 days in a row, with
only Level 1 charging over night...I left the office with 32
miles on the guess guage and 27 to go on Google Maps.

I took local streets  from my office for about the first
10 miles and I followed the 2 dots rule after that,
and I got home with 10 on the guage  (i.e., I saved 8 range miles)
It's not fun to worry so much, but it did work.

I have never gotten stuck, but I have come home on 0
a few times.   I have used DC Quick Charging often,
but it is either 6 miles out of the way to Nissan or $7 nrg.

I hope this helps

Seth


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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Hi Cal,

We purchased a used 2013 LEAF SL, after turning in our leased 2012 SV.  We put
nearly 48k miles on the 2012 car, and had no problems.  It only needed tires,
wiper blades, and its scheduled service visits.

We recommend the SL or above models, because these have the heat pump
heating/cooling system, so using the heater or defroster has very little
effect on range (we're in Portland, OR, pretty much the same climate as Peri).
  Given that your commute is pushing the range of the LEAF, you'll regret
having to live with the old-school heating system (we know, we did so for 42
months in our 2012 car).

We also recommend you make sure you get one with the L3 charging option,
because you can take advantage of quick charging stations if you find you need
to make a side-trip that you hadn't planned on.

Another desirable improvement in the 2013+ SL (or higher) models is a more
powerful onboard charger.  On the more common L2 public charging stations,
this can charge twice as fast as the low-end 3.3KW charger, so if you do get
stuck with a low battery and no L3 stations, you'll be stuck for a shorter
amount of time.

Last comment:  While my wife's daily commute is 60 miles round trip, she has
on occasion done 85 miles on a single charge in our 2013 car (not possible in
the 2012 car).  These were on warm, dry days, and included some light-footed
driving, such as keeping the freeway speeds at 55 instead of 65.  We suspect
that, depending on the hills in your area, you could make your round trip
commute on a single charge on such ideal days if you do some minor
hypermiling, but catching some hours of L1 charge while you're at work (or a
10-20 minute top-off at an L3 charger) should get you home year round.

Regards,

Marion


> Hi, folks,
>
> I just got a new job, which is going to have me making changes.
> So far, my commute has been adequately met by my GEM e2.
>
> Now I'm looking at 42 miles one way, mainly freeway with a bit of stop
> and go at the end.
> I'm thinking that, while this might be pushing it a bit, a 2013+ Nissan
> Leaf SL might just make it, and I'm liking the pricing I see on used
> ones with under 30k miles.
>
> Am I being foolish? What else should I be careful to observe should I
> try to buy one?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best regards,
> -- Cal Frye,
>  www.calfrye.com <http://www.touchstonehumanists.org/>
>
> "As business replaces civil society, advertising is taking over the
> cultural functions that used to be filled by the left. . . . We used to
> have movements for change; now we have products." -- Thomas Frank.
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> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
>


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Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

brucedp5
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676.html
]

Cal sez> '42 miles each way (daily to work and back commute is 82 miles)'

IMO an 82mi daily commute in a used EV like the 2013 Leaf SL has pushed beyond its range limit for a round trip on one charge. Even on the best days: warm weather, no-wind, and light traffic, it would be a challenge to be reliable to be on-time at work or home.

No, you are going to need charging before you make it home. Even a L1 outlet for 8 hours while you are working would give you just enough (~30mi). I am going to assume there is no EVSE at Cal's new work site. Thus he will depend on what public L3&2 or private EVSE he finds on plugshare.com .


For those that do not know a GEM e-2 is a nEV (not-highway speed capable, a short ~30mi range, and has a wimpy L1 charger built-in ( = too slow for an 82+mi daily commute). So, what was an easy (~10mi) bop over to Cal's former work site each day, has changed to a 82+mi or ~2 hour daily grind to wade through and fight traffic.

Cal, your post wording sounds like you are excited. So excited that you might make the mistake of buying before you have spent the time to select an EV that will fit your needs (one that will serve you, not you trying to make the EV fit your needs).

Others (in temperate west coast areas) have posted the a Leaf is a good EV and works well for them. But an EV that works well in one part of the world, may not in another part.

Cal is in OH, not CA. He has to deal with may issues that are not in his favor to drive a highway speed production EV: not many EV brands/models were offered and supported in OH, not as much public OH EVSE, thus less OH work site managers will have EV knowledge on the importance and benefits of offering EVSE to employees, OH's weather will have a strong affect on Cal's commute (cold, snow,slush, mud, wind eats range), +more factors.

If I were in Cal's shoes I would do my homework
(Aw Bruce, that takes all the fun out of it!).
Else, Cal would be impulse buying (never a good idea when getting an EV).
Actually, even if Cal were buying an ice, he should do his homework and not go to a dealership to be 'sold a car' (sold the wrong car for his actual driving needs).

In the short term, lets assume he ice'd his way 82 miles to the interview to secure the new job. So, he has other ways to get to work and back until he has figured out what his EV options are.
Or if he hasn't access to another car, then rentals can be bagged using
https://www.kayak.com/cars/Cleveland,OH-c4321/2016-11-30/2017-01-30


BTW, the Gem nEV had an on-board L1 charger, so lets assume Cal would need to buy a home L2 (j1772) EVSE. That cost and the amount of time to recoup the range for the next day needs to be factored in.

While a 3kW EVSE would work if you came home each day with plenty of time to charge, IMO a 6kW EVSE @home would be wiser for those rare days when you have less time to charge (stuff-happens).

Along with that, I recommend that your EV have a 6kW on-board charger. This will match the above, but also match what is available at public EVSE (a better bang for the public EVSE use-fee buck$).

As was posted, Cal's EV should also be required to have a L3 DC charging ability. If Cal's EV was only bopping around in the range of his Gem nEV, he would not need the above. But now, he has to be on time at work reliably, so he will need the L3 & L2-6kW charging ability to accomplish that.
IMO, limiting his EV to L2-3kW, and or no L3 is not going to achieve his EV goals.


It would be best to have L2 EVSE at work, but if not, Cal should use plugshare.com to know where the available EVSE is at. He should plan on a daily stop off during lunch or on the way home, to use a L3 EVSE to top off each day. Or find on plugshare.com a home owner near his work that would let him charge each day (you need to be able to login to plugshare to get those private details: its free and easy to do).


Since Cal mentioned a used Leaf, I will assume his wallet is not as full nor his pockets as deep as Donald's, so a Tesla, or waiting until the 200mi, or even the 30kWh (100+mi) EVs come out will not be within Cal's budget. Lets assume Cal's budget will consider an EV that's $10k or less.


Lets talk weather ... take a look at
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/oberlin-oh/44074/month/340017?monyr=1/01/2015
 while the planet 'is' heating up, where Cal lives January is his coldest month running at 35° daytime/21°F nighttime.

If Cal has to leave the EV outside at night, figure on starting out at 21°F. Even if Cal has a garage where he can keep the EV heated, he'll have a daytime temp of 35° or lower when he goes home in the evening (after the EV has sat out in the company's parking lot all day).


Cal lives in OH so he knows its weather (I am not in OH). But here is a 2013 report on what is called lake-effect snow, and Cal lives near Lake Erie
http://sabolscience.blogspot.in/2013/01/the-different-flavors-of-lake-erie-lake.html
 Heavy lake effect snow and wind may be more rare, but once a year is all it takes to disrupt Cal's commute.


From:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082048_nissan-leaf-range-how-much-does-it-lose-in-the-cold
Nissan Leaf Range: How Much Does It Lose In The Cold?
Feb 1, 2013

 look at
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/fleetcarmas-analysis-of-nissan-leaf-driving-range-at-different-temperatures_100417498_l.jpg

 the graph shows a 65 mile max range when it is warm weather and a 50 mile range @ 25F. That is a 25% difference in range between warm and cold weather months.
*You have to plan for the worst (the coldest) to ensure you have enough range.

Plus factor in losing bars (range) during ownership, see
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295

http://livingleaf.info/2015/05/lets-talk-about-battery-degradation/

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/life-used-nissan-leaf-first-month.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/2uro4x/lost_my_3rd_bar_today/

 so, if Cal was three years into ownership, how much range could he lose (be down to) before the multiple charging method got to be no-good for his needs?


The Leaf is a good EV, but at its best in the sunshine U.S. states (it works best if not too hot, nor too cold). Driving a Leaf in OH's cold can be done, and it is available in Cal's area
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=t49105&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&trimNames=SV&trimNames=SL&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

 lets have Cal look at other EV choices:

While the VW e-golf (82mi warm) has OH cold weather range issues like the Leaf
http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=755
 The good news is the e-golf is available in his area
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2284&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=true&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

BMW i3 (114mi, w/ or w/o a rex are near the same used price, an i3+rex has less e-range)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2263&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=500&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC


- EVs not supported, nor available in Cal's area  -

The Spark EV (82mi)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2205&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&maxPrice=20000&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

http://insideevs.com/full-details-released-on-2015-kia-soul-evs-advanced-battery/
The Kia Soul EV (90mi)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2290&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC


And lastly there is an alternate way of thinking about Cal's new daily commute:
drive to the train station (30mi) and let them do the driving: saves on wear and tear on the EV and on Cal (they might have on-board wifi so Cal could get some things done while riding, etc.), it would make his EV commute shorter so he could drive to and from the train station on one charge.
https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=am/am2Station/Station_Page&code=ELY

http://locations.greyhound.com/bus-stations/us/ohio/elyria/bus-station-250459


Bottom line: IMO, if Cal can afford a few more $, a used BMW i3 EV (his choice w/ or w/o a rex, used they are the same price) would be the best choice his needs.
 Good Luck, and let us know what you decide, and your experiences.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.0catch.com}
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Re: Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Not to mention that he said most of the commute is interstate.  You're only
going  to get rated mileage if you keep it slow.  Going at 70 MPH takes
TWICE the range as going at 45 MPH.  A HUGE difference for the same
distance.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 1:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?



[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676.html
]

Cal sez> '42 miles each way (daily to work and back commute is 82 miles)'

IMO an 82mi daily commute in a used EV like the 2013 Leaf SL has pushed
beyond its range limit for a round trip on one charge. Even on the best
days: warm weather, no-wind, and light traffic, it would be a challenge to
be reliable to be on-time at work or home.

No, you are going to need charging before you make it home. Even a L1 outlet
for 8 hours while you are working would give you just enough (~30mi). I am
going to assume there is no EVSE at Cal's new work site. Thus he will depend
on what public L3&2 or private EVSE he finds on plugshare.com .


For those that do not know a GEM e-2 is a nEV (not-highway speed capable, a
short ~30mi range, and has a wimpy L1 charger built-in ( = too slow for an
82+mi daily commute). So, what was an easy (~10mi) bop over to Cal's
82+former
work site each day, has changed to a 82+mi or ~2 hour daily grind to wade
through and fight traffic.

Cal, your post wording sounds like you are excited. So excited that you
might make the mistake of buying before you have spent the time to select
and EV that will fit your needs (it will serve you, not you trying to make
the EV fit your needs).

Others (in temperate west coast areas) have posted the a Leaf is a good EV
and works well for them. But an EV that works well in one part of the world,
may not in another part.

Cal is in OH, not CA. He has to deal with may issues that are not in his
favor to drive a highway speed production EV: not many EV brands/models were
offered and supported in OH, not as much public OH EVSE, thus less OH work
site managers will have EV knowledge on the importance and benefits of
offering EVSE to employees, OH's weather will have a strong affect on Cal's
commute (cold, snow,slush, mud, wind eats range), +more factors.

If I were in Cal's shoes I would do my homework (Aw Bruce, that takes all
the fun out of it!) Else, Cal would be impulse buying (never a good idea
when getting an EV).
Actually, even if Cal were buying an ice, he should do his homework and not
go to a dealership to be 'sold a car' (the wrong car for his actual driving
needs).

In the short term, lets assume he ice'd his way 82 miles to the interview to
secure the new job. So, he has other ways to get to work and back until he
has figured out what his EV options are.
Or if he hasn't access to another car, then rentals can be bagged using
https://www.kayak.com/cars/Cleveland,OH-c4321/2016-11-30/2017-01-30


BTW, the Gem nEV had an on-board L1 charger, so lets assume Cal would need
to buy a home L2 (j1772) EVSE. That cost and the amount of time to recoup
the range for the next day needs to be factored in.

While a 3kW EVSE would work if you came home each day with plenty of time to
charge, IMO a 6kW EVSE @home would be wiser for those rare days when you
have less time to charge (stuff-happens).

Along with that, I recommend that your EV have a 6kW on-board charger. This
will match the above, but also match what is available at public EVSE (a
better bang for the public EVSE use-fee buck$).

As was posted, Cal's EV should also be required to have a L3 DC charging
ability. If Cal's EV was only bopping around in the range of his Gem nEV, he
would not need the above. But now, he has to be on time at work reliably, so
he will need the L3 & L2-6kW charging ability to accomplish that.
IMO, limiting his EV to L2-3kW, and or no L3 is not going to achieve his EV
goals.


It would be best to have L2 EVSE at work, but if not, Cal should use
plugshare.com to know where the available EVSE is at. He should plan on a
daily stop off during lunch or on the way home, to use a L3 EVSE to top off
each day. Or find on plugshare.com a home owner near his work that would let
him charge each day (you need to be able to login to plugshare to get those
private details: its free and easy to do).


Since Cal mentioned a used Leaf, I will assume his wallet is not as full nor
his pockets as deep as Donald's, so a Tesla, or waiting until the 200mi, or
even the 30kWh (100+mi) EVs come out will not be within Cal's budget. Lets
assume Cal's budget will consider an EV that's $10k or less.


Lets talk weather ... take a look at
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/oberlin-oh/44074/month/340017?monyr=1/01/2015
 while the planet 'is' heating up, where Cal lives January is his coldest
month running at 35° daytime/21°F nighttime.

If Cal has to leave the EV outside at night, figure on starting out at 21°F.
Even if Cal has a garage where he can keep the EV heated, he'll have a
daytime temp of 35° or lower when he goes home in the evening (after the EV
has sat out in the company's parking lot all day).

Cal lives in OH so he knows its weather (I am not in OH). But he is a 2013
report on what is called lake-effect snow, and Cal lives near Lake Erie
http://sabolscience.blogspot.in/2013/01/the-different-flavors-of-lake-erie-lake.html
 Heavy lake effect snow and wind may be more rare, but once a year is all it
takes to disrupt Cal's commute.


From:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082048_nissan-leaf-range-how-much-does-it-lose-in-the-cold
Nissan Leaf Range: How Much Does It Lose In The Cold?
Feb 1, 2013

 look at
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/fleetcarmas-analysis-of-nissan-leaf-driving-range-at-different-temperatures_100417498_l.jpg

 the graph shows a 65 mile max range when it is warm weather and a 50 mile
range @ 25F. That is a 25% difference in range between warm and cold weather
months.
*You have to plan for the worst (the coldest) to ensure you have enough
range.

Plus factor in losing bars (range) during ownership, see
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295

http://livingleaf.info/2015/05/lets-talk-about-battery-degradation/

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/life-used-nissan-leaf-first-month.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/2uro4x/lost_my_3rd_bar_today/

 so, if Cal was three years into ownership, how much range could he lose (be
down to) before the multiple charging method got to be no-good for his
needs?


The Leaf is a good EV, but at its best in the sunshine U.S. states (it works
best if not too hot, nor too cold). Driving a Leaf in OH's cold can be done,
and it is available in Cal's area
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=t49105&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&trimNames=SV&trimNames=SL&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

 lets have Cal look at other EV choices:

While the VW e-golf (82mi warm) has OH cold weather range issues like the
Leaf
http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=755
 The good news is the e-golf is available in his area
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2284&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=true&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

BMW i3 (114mi, w/ or w/o a rex are near the same used price, an i3+rex has
less e-range)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2263&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=500&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC


- EVs not supported, nor available in Cal's area  -

The Spark EV (82mi)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2205&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&maxPrice=20000&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC

http://insideevs.com/full-details-released-on-2015-kia-soul-evs-advanced-battery/
The Kia Soul EV (90mi)
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2290&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC


And lastly there is an alternate way of thinking about Cal's new daily
commute:
drive to the train station (30mi) and let them do the driving: saves on wear
and tear on the EV and on Cal (likely they would have on-board wifi so Cal
could get so things done what riding, etc.), it would make his EV commute
shorter so he could drive to and from the train station on one charge.
https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=am/am2Station/Station_Page&code=ELY

http://locations.greyhound.com/bus-stations/us/ohio/elyria/bus-station-250459


Bottom line: IMO, if Cal can afford a few more $, a BMW i3 EV (his choice w/
or w/o a rex, used they are the same price) would be the best choice his
needs.
Good Luck, and let us know what you decide, and your experiences.






For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.0catch.com}

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676p4684688.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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Re: Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by brucedp5
Thanks, Bruce, for the truly exhaustive analysis.
You guessed rather accurately from the meagre information I gave you.

Leaves (Leafs?) of the 2013-2014 vintage, SL or SV (I dislike leather
seats, but that's a personal problem) seem to be in the $13-15,000
range, which is attractive.

But yes, the weather is a concern. There are non-freeway routes
available, and a much shorter drive to the light rail station is also an
option. I am eager, but not in such a hurry that I will stint on the
homework. Part of that homework is to poll you all, especially those
with hands-on experience with the Leaf, for advice.

I will be working at Case Western Reserve University, and there are
several EVSE's available on campus, but I'm also warned that parking is
marginally adequate and competition for spaces is fierce. L1 might be
more widely available, but not advertised so I need to reconnoiter
before committing to a vehicle.

For that matter, the Democratic People's Republic of Oberlin provides,
through our municipal utility, a pair of 5-6kW charging stations
downtown, only a mile from the house.

I especially thank you for the vehicle research you provided -- I will
indeed investigate the other options. We do somewhat long for the
options you folks on the west coast enjoy.

The approval process for even placing a deposit on a Tesla is taking
years, but again, that's a personal problem ;-)

Thanks very much!
Cal

> *From:* brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]>
> *Date:* November 29, 2016 at 1:30 PM
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?
>
> [ref
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676.html
> ]
>
> Cal sez> '42 miles each way (daily to work and back commute is 82 miles)'
>
> IMO an 82mi daily commute in a used EV like the 2013 Leaf SL has pushed
> beyond its range limit for a round trip on one charge. Even on the best
> days: warm weather, no-wind, and light traffic, it would be a challenge to
> be reliable to be on-time at work or home.
>
> No, you are going to need charging before you make it home. Even a L1
> outlet
> for 8 hours while you are working would give you just enough (~30mi). I am
> going to assume there is no EVSE at Cal's new work site. Thus he will
> depend
> on what public L3&2 or private EVSE he finds on plugshare.com .
>
>
> For those that do not know a GEM e-2 is a nEV (not-highway speed
> capable, a
> short ~30mi range, and has a wimpy L1 charger built-in ( = too slow for an
> 82+mi daily commute). So, what was an easy (~10mi) bop over to Cal's
> former
> work site each day, has changed to a 82+mi or ~2 hour daily grind to wade
> through and fight traffic.
>
> Cal, your post wording sounds like you are excited. So excited that you
> might make the mistake of buying before you have spent the time to select
> and EV that will fit your needs (it will serve you, not you trying to make
> the EV fit your needs).
>
> Others (in temperate west coast areas) have posted the a Leaf is a good EV
> and works well for them. But an EV that works well in one part of the
> world,
> may not in another part.
>
> Cal is in OH, not CA. He has to deal with may issues that are not in his
> favor to drive a highway speed production EV: not many EV
> brands/models were
> offered and supported in OH, not as much public OH EVSE, thus less OH work
> site managers will have EV knowledge on the importance and benefits of
> offering EVSE to employees, OH's weather will have a strong affect on
> Cal's
> commute (cold, snow,slush, mud, wind eats range), +more factors.
>
> If I were in Cal's shoes I would do my homework
> (Aw Bruce, that takes all the fun out of it!)
> Else, Cal would be impulse buying (never a good idea when getting an EV).
> Actually, even if Cal were buying an ice, he should do his homework
> and not
> go to a dealership to be 'sold a car' (the wrong car for his actual
> driving
> needs).
>
> In the short term, lets assume he ice'd his way 82 miles to the
> interview to
> secure the new job. So, he has other ways to get to work and back until he
> has figured out what his EV options are.
> Or if he hasn't access to another car, then rentals can be bagged using
> https://www.kayak.com/cars/Cleveland,OH-c4321/2016-11-30/2017-01-30
>
>
> BTW, the Gem nEV had an on-board L1 charger, so lets assume Cal would need
> to buy a home L2 (j1772) EVSE. That cost and the amount of time to recoup
> the range for the next day needs to be factored in.
>
> While a 3kW EVSE would work if you came home each day with plenty of
> time to
> charge, IMO a 6kW EVSE @home would be wiser for those rare days when you
> have less time to charge (stuff-happens).
>
> Along with that, I recommend that your EV have a 6kW on-board charger.
> This
> will match the above, but also match what is available at public EVSE (a
> better bang for the public EVSE use-fee buck$).
>
> As was posted, Cal's EV should also be required to have a L3 DC charging
> ability. If Cal's EV was only bopping around in the range of his Gem
> nEV, he
> would not need the above. But now, he has to be on time at work
> reliably, so
> he will need the L3 & L2-6kW charging ability to accomplish that.
> IMO, limiting his EV to L2-3kW, and or no L3 is not going to achieve
> his EV
> goals.
>
>
> It would be best to have L2 EVSE at work, but if not, Cal should use
> plugshare.com to know where the available EVSE is at. He should plan on a
> daily stop off during lunch or on the way home, to use a L3 EVSE to
> top off
> each day. Or find on plugshare.com a home owner near his work that
> would let
> him charge each day (you need to be able to login to plugshare to get
> those
> private details: its free and easy to do).
>
>
> Since Cal mentioned a used Leaf, I will assume his wallet is not as
> full nor
> his pockets as deep as Donald's, so a Tesla, or waiting until the
> 200mi, or
> even the 30kWh (100+mi) EVs come out will not be within Cal's budget. Lets
> assume Cal's budget will consider an EV that's $10k or less.
>
>
> Lets talk weather ... take a look at
> http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/oberlin-oh/44074/month/340017?monyr=1/01/2015
> while the planet 'is' heating up, where Cal lives January is his coldest
> month running at 35° daytime/21°F nighttime.
>
> If Cal has to leave the EV outside at night, figure on starting out at
> 21°F.
> Even if Cal has a garage where he can keep the EV heated, he'll have a
> daytime temp of 35° or lower when he goes home in the evening (after
> the EV
> has sat out in the company's parking lot all day).
>
> Cal lives in OH so he knows its weather (I am not in OH). But he is a 2013
> report on what is called lake-effect snow, and Cal lives near Lake Erie
> http://sabolscience.blogspot.in/2013/01/the-different-flavors-of-lake-erie-lake.html
> Heavy lake effect snow and wind may be more rare, but once a year is
> all it
> takes to disrupt Cal's commute.
>
>
> From:
> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082048_nissan-leaf-range-how-much-does-it-lose-in-the-cold
> Nissan Leaf Range: How Much Does It Lose In The Cold?
> Feb 1, 2013
>
> look at
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/fleetcarmas-analysis-of-nissan-leaf-driving-range-at-different-temperatures_100417498_l.jpg
>
> the graph shows a 65 mile max range when it is warm weather and a 50 mile
> range @ 25F. That is a 25% difference in range between warm and cold
> weather
> months.
> *You have to plan for the worst (the coldest) to ensure you have enough
> range.
>
> Plus factor in losing bars (range) during ownership, see
> http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295
>
> http://livingleaf.info/2015/05/lets-talk-about-battery-degradation/
>
> http://www.treehugger.com/cars/life-used-nissan-leaf-first-month.html
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/2uro4x/lost_my_3rd_bar_today/
>
> so, if Cal was three years into ownership, how much range could he
> lose (be
> down to) before the multiple charging method got to be no-good for his
> needs?
>
>
> The Leaf is a good EV, but at its best in the sunshine U.S. states (it
> works
> best if not too hot, nor too cold). Driving a Leaf in OH's cold can be
> done,
> and it is available in Cal's area
> https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=t49105&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&trimNames=SV&trimNames=SL&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC
>
> lets have Cal look at other EV choices:
>
> While the VW e-golf (82mi warm) has OH cold weather range issues like the
> Leaf
> http://www.myvwegolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=755
> The good news is the e-golf is available in his area
> https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2284&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=true&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC
>
> BMW i3 (114mi, w/ or w/o a rex are near the same used price, an i3+rex has
> less e-range)
> https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2263&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=500&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC
>
>
> - EVs not supported, nor available in Cal's area -
>
> The Spark EV (82mi)
> https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2205&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&maxPrice=20000&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC
>
> http://insideevs.com/full-details-released-on-2015-kia-soul-evs-advanced-battery/
> The Kia Soul EV (90mi)
> https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2290&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=200&searchChanged=true&showNegotiable=false&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC
>
>
> And lastly there is an alternate way of thinking about Cal's new daily
> commute:
> drive to the train station (30mi) and let them do the driving: saves
> on wear
> and tear on the EV and on Cal (likely they would have on-board wifi so Cal
> could get so things done what riding, etc.), it would make his EV commute
> shorter so he could drive to and from the train station on one charge.
> https://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=am/am2Station/Station_Page&code=ELY
>
> http://locations.greyhound.com/bus-stations/us/ohio/elyria/bus-station-250459
>
>
> Bottom line: IMO, if Cal can afford a few more $, a BMW i3 EV (his
> choice w/
> or w/o a rex, used they are the same price) would be the best choice his
> needs.
> Good Luck, and let us know what you decide, and your experiences.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
> {brucedp.0catch.com}
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-recommendations-tp4684676p4684688.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
> *From:* Cal Frye via EV <[hidden email]>
> *Date:* November 28, 2016 at 10:05 PM
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?
> Hi, folks,
>
> I just got a new job, which is going to have me making changes.
> So far, my commute has been adequately met by my GEM e2.
>
> Now I'm looking at 42 miles one way, mainly freeway with a bit of stop
> and go at the end.
> I'm thinking that, while this might be pushing it a bit, a 2013+ Nissan
> Leaf SL might just make it, and I'm liking the pricing I see on used
> ones with under 30k miles.
>
> Am I being foolish? What else should I be careful to observe should I
> try to buy one?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best regards,
> -- Cal Frye,
> www.calfrye.com <http://www.touchstonehumanists.org/>
>
> "As business replaces civil society, advertising is taking over the
> cultural functions that used to be filled by the left. . . . We used to
> have movements for change; now we have products." -- Thomas Frank.
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
> You will probably get better mileage than I
> since you will have a significant portion on freeway
> whereas most of my driving is stop & go at 25-30 mph.

Huh???  Is that a typo?

AN EV going stop and go at 30 MPH can get more than double the range of an
EV going at freeway speeds.

Bob, WB4AOPR

------ Original Message ------
From: "Cal Frye via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc:
Sent: 28-Nov-16 7:05:20 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?

>Hi, folks,
>
>I just got a new job, which is going to have me making changes.
>So far, my commute has been adequately met by my GEM e2.
>
>Now I'm looking at 42 miles one way, mainly freeway with a bit of stop
>and go at the end.
>I'm thinking that, while this might be pushing it a bit, a 2013+ Nissan
>Leaf SL might just make it, and I'm liking the pricing I see on used
>ones with under 30k miles.
>
>Am I being foolish? What else should I be careful to observe should I
>try to buy one?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Best regards,
>-- Cal Frye,
>  www.calfrye.com <http://www.touchstonehumanists.org/>
>
>"As business replaces civil society, advertising is taking over the
>cultural functions that used to be filled by the left. . . . We used to
>have movements for change; now we have products." -- Thomas Frank.
>-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
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>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag
>racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Avoiding braking under all conditions is crucial for efficiency.  As you
know.  "Stop and go" MAY mean lots of braking.

On Nov 29, 2016 6:38 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > You will probably get better mileage than I
> > since you will have a significant portion on freeway
> > whereas most of my driving is stop & go at 25-30 mph.
>
> Huh???  Is that a typo?
>
> AN EV going stop and go at 30 MPH can get more than double the range of an
> EV going at freeway speeds.
>
> Bob, WB4AOPR
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Cal Frye via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: 28-Nov-16 7:05:20 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?
>
> >Hi, folks,
> >
> >I just got a new job, which is going to have me making changes.
> >So far, my commute has been adequately met by my GEM e2.
> >
> >Now I'm looking at 42 miles one way, mainly freeway with a bit of stop
> >and go at the end.
> >I'm thinking that, while this might be pushing it a bit, a 2013+ Nissan
> >Leaf SL might just make it, and I'm liking the pricing I see on used
> >ones with under 30k miles.
> >
> >Am I being foolish? What else should I be careful to observe should I
> >try to buy one?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Best regards,
> >-- Cal Frye,
> >  www.calfrye.com <http://www.touchstonehumanists.org/>
> >
> >"As business replaces civil society, advertising is taking over the
> >cultural functions that used to be filled by the left. . . . We used to
> >have movements for change; now we have products." -- Thomas Frank.
> >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> >scrubbed...
> >URL:
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> >753c8/attachment.html> _______________________________________________
> >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag
> >racing at NEDRA
> >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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> racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Not a typo. 25-30 mph with lots of hills and stop and go takes about
350-450 wh / mile. Going 40 mph on hwy 99 with few stops gets as low as
200 wh /mile. Going 60 mph on I5 is some where around 300 wh / mile.
These numbers are undocumented, though I've observed them many times
while driving.

Don't forget about having heat and defrost on. At an average city speed
of 12mph, those accessories eat up quite a bit of power.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc:
Sent: 29-Nov-16 4:38:01 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?

>>  You will probably get better mileage than I
>>  since you will have a significant portion on freeway
>>  whereas most of my driving is stop & go at 25-30 mph.
>
>Huh???  Is that a typo?
>
>AN EV going stop and go at 30 MPH can get more than double the range of
>an
>EV going at freeway speeds.
>
>Bob, WB4AOPR
>
>------ Original Message ------
>From: "Cal Frye via EV" <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Cc:
>Sent: 28-Nov-16 7:05:20 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?
>
>>Hi, folks,
>>
>>I just got a new job, which is going to have me making changes.
>>So far, my commute has been adequately met by my GEM e2.
>>
>>Now I'm looking at 42 miles one way, mainly freeway with a bit of stop
>>and go at the end.
>>I'm thinking that, while this might be pushing it a bit, a 2013+
>>Nissan
>>Leaf SL might just make it, and I'm liking the pricing I see on used
>>ones with under 30k miles.
>>
>>Am I being foolish? What else should I be careful to observe should I
>>try to buy one?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Best regards,
>>-- Cal Frye,
>>   www.calfrye.com <http://www.touchstonehumanists.org/>
>>
>>"As business replaces civil society, advertising is taking over the
>>cultural functions that used to be filled by the left. . . . We used
>>to
>>have movements for change; now we have products." -- Thomas Frank.
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>>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag
>>racing at NEDRA
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Cal's work commute ...

brucedp5
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list


[ref
https://www.mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/msg18795.html
]

Cal's response lets me know he has a plan in mind to gather information.

IMO, I see his post as a good example of how a person, anywhere, could work toward knowing which plugin would work best for them to fit their EV driving needs, plus how to work out all the details of its use.

Cal's new job shows several things to me that fit the northern U.S., our Canadian neighbors, and any other part of the Earth where cold weather can eat up EV range (will the driver's wallet allow them a larger range EV, or will they go for a pih because of their reactive driving needs, etc.). So, I hope that what I and others post will be helpful to people seeking an EVgrin (now and in the future).


Cal's new work site  Case Western Reserve University (case.edu)  is to the east of Cleveland, OH. Which is, now coming from his home (west of there), just beyond the range of a typical more affordable used Leaf EV. This becomes even more a problem when cold OH weather eat range. So, I spent some time doing a little on-line research as to what he has in the way of public charging.

[sidebar
BTW, I found an IT video warning students to protect their account security:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcmwFV34ck8&feature=youtu.be
(@53 seconds in) (love that hat)
]

As Cal has stated there are EVSE on campus, but my research leaves me with concerns with securing daily access. Not having an EVSE when Cal arrives at work is IMO a deal breaker. Here are the EVSE I have found:

https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/89602
University Hospitals - Rainbow Parking Garage on Adelbert
Ports 3 EV Plug (J1772)s Stations SemaCharge
Address 2121 Adelbert Rd, Cleveland‎ OH‎ 44106, United States
Phone (800) 663-5633
Cost Charging is FREE 24/7. Garage Parking Fees apply.
Hours 24 hrs
Description SEMA connect chargers. Two hours of free parking in the garage. Parking rates apply.
[comment: Gregory Rutledge Oct 14, 2016 1:33 PM
Was there and called the number and office was on west coast time no answer then parking manager came and said I couldn't park there I showed him I had an EV he left me alone had to use 110 outlet
]

https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/94438
University Hospitals - Employee Parking Garage 59
Ports 3 EV Plug (J1772)s Stations SemaCharge
Address 2100 Circle Dr, Cleveland, OH 44106, USA
Cost Charging is FREE 24/7. Garage Parking Fees apply.
Hours 24 hours
Description Employees only - 3 Sema Connect EV charging stations on ground floor
[*Not for public use]

https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/20218
University Hospitals - UH Drive Parking Garage
Ports 6 EV Plug (J1772)s Stations SemaCharge
Address 11100 Euclid Avenue Cleveland, OH 44106
Phone (800) 663-5633
Cost UH charges $1/hour, 24/7  Pay with PlugShare, iPhone app
Hours  24 / 7
Description 6 EVSE located on the 1st floor of the parking deck (access from UH Dr.) Parking rates apply. Requires payment, either call the toll free number (800-663-5633) to pay or use your SemaConnect EV charge card.


 The above public EVSE is max'd out, or ice'd. The public EVSE that is farther away (below), is available, but how is Cal going to get to work from there and back?:

https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/89315
CWRU - Veale Parking Garage
Ports EV Plug (J1772)
Address 2158 Adelbert Rd, Cleveland‎ OH‎ 44106, United States
Cost $1.50/hr parking fees
Description
L2 EVSE located near 2nd floor elevators, next to the Enterprise Car Share Program spot. Standard parking rates apply. EV spot not reserved/marked, very TIGHT/narrow spot (fold in your side mirrors).

https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/93711
Cleveland Museum of Natural History
Ports Wall Outlet (120V)
Address 1 Wade Oval Dr, Cleveland, OH 44106
Cost Cost unknown
Description Top floor of new parking deck.

https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/13519
Uptown Parking - University Circle
Ports EV Plug (J1772)
Address 1732 E 115th St, Cleveland, OH, 44106
Hours 24/7
Description 4 L2 EVSE located in the parking lot behind Constantino's Market. The entrance is the 1st driveway on the left on East 115th street after turning from Euclid Ave. EV spots are free but time limited, & ice'd mid-day but open-up in the late afternoon/evening.


 So Cal can return home, he should work toward getting half of a Leaf EV's charge back during his work hours. To do that, he is going to need a daily 4 hours of L2 charging at work, and I do not see reliable public L2 EVSE to support that. It looks like each day would be hit or miss for Cal (he may not get the charge he would require - I hope I am wrong).


 If Cal could secure a guaranteed L1 outlet for ~8 hours, that would regain ~30 miles each day. To find which L1 outlets that are working/live, I used to carry with me a nema 5-15 outlet tester:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Receptacle-Outlet-Tester-RT110/206517828?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D27E-Electrical%7c&gclid=CMeh2YrW0tACFQmTaQod710FYg&gclsrc=aw.ds

 Once Cal found an available L1 outlet, he could approach the owners of the outlet to mark the space reserved for his use only (with tow-away signage in red lettering, so no other plugin could block it - Cal may have to pay for this to happen).


 Else, the short 30 mile drive in his EV to the closest train station near Cal's home:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Elyria,+OH/Case+Western+Reserve+University,+10900+Euclid+Avenue,+Cleveland,+OH+44106/@41.4406914,-81.8568404,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x88309918045a2cc5:0xa5f04aa87a7fb0b6!2m2!1d-82.1076486!2d41.3683798!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830fb893658122d:0x719069e07bb00b91!2m2!1d-81.6083838!2d41.5043413!3e3

 and then use the light rail system in Cleveland that goes directly to his work site.


 Lastly, if Cal really wanted to make that long drive each day, an i3 with the rex option would fit his needs:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePage_false_0&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2263&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=44074&distance=500&searchChanged=true&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true#


 Curiously, in looking at how Cal would drive his purchased i3 home from one of the cheaper farther away listings, I came across a plugshare listing that showed a GM Bolt plugged into a Toledo-OH public EVSE (view the images below):

https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/67696
University of Toledo - East Ramp Parking Garage

https://13dd3533ebd96a38e097-ffd458871468d7801be60d93d5d79b26.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/161196.jpg

https://13dd3533ebd96a38e097-ffd458871468d7801be60d93d5d79b26.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/159214.jpg

https://13dd3533ebd96a38e097-ffd458871468d7801be60d93d5d79b26.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/156892.jpg

https://13dd3533ebd96a38e097-ffd458871468d7801be60d93d5d79b26.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/151586.jpg


 The above images show a different brand of L3 DC 50kW EVSE that has a dual coupler (both CHAdeMO and a ccs):

https://13dd3533ebd96a38e097-ffd458871468d7801be60d93d5d79b26.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/89711.jpg
dual l3

https://13dd3533ebd96a38e097-ffd458871468d7801be60d93d5d79b26.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/121133.jpg
plate

 Further research shows that company also offers a low-cost ~20kW dual coupler L3 DC EVSE model:

http://evcharger.biz/products/signet
DC Fast Chargers
Multi-standard 20kW fast charger – for both CHAdeMO & CC

http://signetusa.com/mcEvCharger.html



 I hope Cal will have time to get back to us to let us know what he has found out, and which commute method he decides on.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.0catch.com}
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Re: Cal's work commute ...

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On Sat, 12/10/2016 08:12 AM, brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [sidebar
> BTW, I found an IT video warning students to protect their account security:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcmwFV34ck8&feature=youtu.be
> (@53 seconds in) (love that hat)
> ]
That hat's on top of my new boss, whose email signature reads "Putting the Western in Western Reserve"
Western Reserve, in this case, refers to the Connecticut Western Reserve, lands awarded to Revolutionary War veterans in lieu of better payment for their service. They were given land in the Northwest Territory to settle or sell, as they saw fit.

As for EVSE charging, I will know more after speaking with the parking folks. Once there, of course, I'll add my voice to the cause of keeping the available charging stations in order and available.
But this one will take some experimentation and thought before I commit to any particular solution.

Best regards,
- Cal Frye, ​www.calfrye.com
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Re: Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
UPDATE

[as reported last November to the list, my new job is taking me from
Oberlin to Case Western Reserve University, a one-way distance of 41.5
miles. This is, of course, NE Ohio, so weather is a concern. A used Leaf
can be obtained for around $10-11,000. Is this possible?]

I have test-driven a 2015 Leaf S on my commute today. Arrived at the
office with 44 miles remaining range on the guessometer. This model
displays all the battery capacity bars, a consideration in my selection.
This works for me. I believe I'm about to have a new EV grin.
Caveats and considerations:

There are five level 2 charging spaces, offering 3kW, available
convenient to my office. There are two charging spaces near my home in
Oberlin, unmarked but at least 3kW, possibly 6kW. Both ends of the trip
are adequately supplied, so the distance requirement is easily within
the Leaf's capacity. Further, there are DC charging spots offered at
random Walmarts between the two endpoints, should one have to hunt for
backup or extra range. This model does have the 6kW charger.

Today, while February, the temperature starting out was 54F. No cabin
heat or defrost was necessary, and the seat heater was determined to be,
if anything, too warm. I might need warmer socks. I recognize the
climate will have an impact, but I believe I can afford to lose range
for comfort and still make the trip work.

I did not feel terribly inconvenienced by selecting both the
regenerative braking and eco modes when I set out. I did drive for
perhaps 20 miles at 70mph, while being passed on the left by folks at
even higher speeds. I can learn to live with that ;-)

There was exactly one BMW i3 available on the used market within 250
miles of me, and for rather more money than the Leaf. A couple months of
looking didn't turn up a single VW e-golf. For the difference in price,
I can easily afford to instal a 240v outlet in my garage and have the
convenience charger modified for 240v operation or install some other
charger at home.

Plus, my wife drives a Honda ICE and has a shorter commute, so if
conditions suggest range is too short, we can swap. I will strive to
keep this from happening too often ;-)


      Cal Frye

[hidden email]
Oberlin, OH 44074


"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." -- Richard Feynmann (1918 - 1988).

 



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Re: Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Cal,

Great that you are considering an EV !

You have detailed this pretty well. If you are buying a used Leaf, say
2011 model, it will probably be down to 9 bars capacity or will be soon.
I suspect, in winter, you might see your range drop below 50 or less
miles on a full charge. Still should be adequate, considering you have
41 miles. But you will need to ensure a complete, full charge before
your return trip. It sounds like that is doable. Just want to point it
out.

I'm basing this on my 2011 Leaf experience. Since I'm doing mostly
hilly, stop & go city driving my range is likely less than what you will
get at 70mph on the freeway. The power consumption gage is usually
around 2.5 miles / kwh in winter. We have more modest temps than you.
So, in that respect, you would get poorer mileage.

Also, you need to take into account power used for the heat and defrost.

I recommend doing some more research to see what other people get in
your area. How many miles / kwh. Maybe even how many kw the heater and
defrost take once up to temp.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Cal Frye via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Cal Frye" <[hidden email]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[hidden email]>
Cc:
Sent: 24-Feb-17 11:05:32 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cal's OH EV : Leaf recommendations?

>UPDATE
>
>[as reported last November to the list, my new job is taking me from
>Oberlin to Case Western Reserve University, a one-way distance of 41.5
>miles. This is, of course, NE Ohio, so weather is a concern. A used
>Leaf can be obtained for around $10-11,000. Is this possible?]
>
>I have test-driven a 2015 Leaf S on my commute today. Arrived at the
>office with 44 miles remaining range on the guessometer. This model
>displays all the battery capacity bars, a consideration in my
>selection. This works for me. I believe I'm about to have a new EV
>grin.
>Caveats and considerations:
>
>There are five level 2 charging spaces, offering 3kW, available
>convenient to my office. There are two charging spaces near my home in
>Oberlin, unmarked but at least 3kW, possibly 6kW. Both ends of the trip
>are adequately supplied, so the distance requirement is easily within
>the Leaf's capacity. Further, there are DC charging spots offered at
>random Walmarts between the two endpoints, should one have to hunt for
>backup or extra range. This model does have the 6kW charger.
>
>Today, while February, the temperature starting out was 54F. No cabin
>heat or defrost was necessary, and the seat heater was determined to
>be, if anything, too warm. I might need warmer socks. I recognize the
>climate will have an impact, but I believe I can afford to lose range
>for comfort and still make the trip work.
>
>I did not feel terribly inconvenienced by selecting both the
>regenerative braking and eco modes when I set out. I did drive for
>perhaps 20 miles at 70mph, while being passed on the left by folks at
>even higher speeds. I can learn to live with that ;-)
>
>There was exactly one BMW i3 available on the used market within 250
>miles of me, and for rather more money than the Leaf. A couple months
>of looking didn't turn up a single VW e-golf. For the difference in
>price, I can easily afford to instal a 240v outlet in my garage and
>have the convenience charger modified for 240v operation or install
>some other charger at home.
>
>Plus, my wife drives a Honda ICE and has a shorter commute, so if
>conditions suggest range is too short, we can swap. I will strive to
>keep this from happening too often ;-)
>
>
>      Cal Frye
>
>[hidden email]
>Oberlin, OH 44074
>
>
>"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly
>universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by
>uncertainty cannot be the truth." -- Richard Feynmann (1918 - 1988).
>
>
>
>
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>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: Leaf recommendations?

tomw
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
"Don't forget about having heat and defrost on. At an average city speed of 12mph, those accessories eat up quite a bit of power."

That's the main effect. Those are constant power loads so the energy per mile consumed increases with decreasing speed. A graph of total energy per mile the vehicle uses, traction plus these constant power loads is a somewhat U-shaped curve, increasing greatly at low speeds due to the constant power loads, and increasing again a very high speeds due to increasing traction power.  On my car there is a fairly broad "sweet spot" centered around 40-45 mph. Plus all the re-acceleration on hills. I can easily believe energy consumption is that high.

More on topic...When you scope out charging options Cal keep in mind that you need redundancy. You have to be able to get to work each day, so you can't afford to place all your bets on one or two EVSE or outlets that may not be available, may not be working, or may go away.  I think I would use the light rail if it doesn't require fairly long walks in Cleveland winters.  I'd also consider a Volt since your gas consumption and carbon emissions would be small for such a commute, especially if you get to charge at work much of the time.

My car is a conversion, but it has about 80 mile range like the Leaf, and I've been driving it for over 7 years as my main car.  I've never been stuck, but that's because I always have a back up plan for charging when I drive far enough away that I must charge to get home.
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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Peri, Tom (and others, particularly Bruce),
I appreciate all the concern and good suggestions. You folks have
greatly helped me feel I've thought this through very thoroughly.

I purchased the Leaf today. Peri, it's a 2015 model S, with the battery
apparently in top condition. It does come with the quick charger, so I'm
set there.

It does have the resistance heater, but so far I can see that the heated
seats are almost all I need there. I think I will get a pair of
fleece-lined boots for driving that will help keep my toes warm without
having to resort to the cabin heater unless really necessary. I do see
what effect that has on the miles remaining gauge.

Overall, in my admittedly limited testing so far, I'm averaging 4 mi/kW,
so I'm pleased. I've ordered an OBDII dongle for use with LeafSpy to
keep better tabs on it.

Tom, I do indeed have redundant charging options at work, four choices,
actually, within easy walking distance from the office. There is a
backup 3kW charger a mile from my house, but I will next be putting a
240v outlet in the garage for a home charger, too.

Along the route, there are a couple of quick charger locations at two
Walmarts, along with charging at two Nissan dealerships, all near the
highways I would routinely use on my commute.

I really think I've got charging covered with reasonable alternatives
available should my preferred be ICEd or otherwise unavailable. I have
not personally tested in our coldest weather, but I think there's
sufficient reserve for this to work, and there's always an ICE for
backup, but I'm adventurous enough to want to avoid that unless
absolutely necessary.

The biggest problem I find with the Leaf so far is it's so quiet I often
am exceeding the speed limit without recognizing just how fast I'm
going. I will learn to cope.

Best regards, -- Cal Frye,
www.calfrye.com /Be an Internet Sceptic/ Stop. Think. Connect.
www.stopthinkconnect.org - Be at least as safe on the Internet as you
are crossing the street!

"Good generally conquers evil. Unless, of course, good is stupid."


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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Glad to hear, Cal. I think you will be fine.

Use the cruise control. I do, even at 25mph. No, especially at 25mph :)

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Cal Frye via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc:
Sent: 25-Feb-17 12:19:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?

>Peri, Tom (and others, particularly Bruce),
>I appreciate all the concern and good suggestions. You folks have
>greatly helped me feel I've thought this through very thoroughly.
>
>I purchased the Leaf today. Peri, it's a 2015 model S, with the battery
>apparently in top condition. It does come with the quick charger, so
>I'm
>set there.
>
>It does have the resistance heater, but so far I can see that the
>heated
>seats are almost all I need there. I think I will get a pair of
>fleece-lined boots for driving that will help keep my toes warm without
>having to resort to the cabin heater unless really necessary. I do see
>what effect that has on the miles remaining gauge.
>
>Overall, in my admittedly limited testing so far, I'm averaging 4
>mi/kW,
>so I'm pleased. I've ordered an OBDII dongle for use with LeafSpy to
>keep better tabs on it.
>
>Tom, I do indeed have redundant charging options at work, four choices,
>actually, within easy walking distance from the office. There is a
>backup 3kW charger a mile from my house, but I will next be putting a
>240v outlet in the garage for a home charger, too.
>
>Along the route, there are a couple of quick charger locations at two
>Walmarts, along with charging at two Nissan dealerships, all near the
>highways I would routinely use on my commute.
>
>I really think I've got charging covered with reasonable alternatives
>available should my preferred be ICEd or otherwise unavailable. I have
>not personally tested in our coldest weather, but I think there's
>sufficient reserve for this to work, and there's always an ICE for
>backup, but I'm adventurous enough to want to avoid that unless
>absolutely necessary.
>
>The biggest problem I find with the Leaf so far is it's so quiet I
>often
>am exceeding the speed limit without recognizing just how fast I'm
>going. I will learn to cope.
>
>Best regards, -- Cal Frye,
>www.calfrye.com /Be an Internet Sceptic/ Stop. Think. Connect.
>www.stopthinkconnect.org - Be at least as safe on the Internet as you
>are crossing the street!
>
>"Good generally conquers evil. Unless, of course, good is stupid."
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
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Cal, we just acquired our second Leaf. My wife charges it with 120vac and is fully charged over night. You may try this before going to the expense of the 240vac outlet. Because then you need to convert the charger to work on 240vac if it is the one that comes with the car. Best of luck. Congrats with your purchase.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Cal Frye via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:19:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?

Peri, Tom (and others, particularly Bruce),
I appreciate all the concern and good suggestions. You folks have
greatly helped me feel I've thought this through very thoroughly.

I purchased the Leaf today. Peri, it's a 2015 model S, with the battery
apparently in top condition. It does come with the quick charger, so I'm
set there.

It does have the resistance heater, but so far I can see that the heated
seats are almost all I need there. I think I will get a pair of
fleece-lined boots for driving that will help keep my toes warm without
having to resort to the cabin heater unless really necessary. I do see
what effect that has on the miles remaining gauge.

Overall, in my admittedly limited testing so far, I'm averaging 4 mi/kW,
so I'm pleased. I've ordered an OBDII dongle for use with LeafSpy to
keep better tabs on it.

Tom, I do indeed have redundant charging options at work, four choices,
actually, within easy walking distance from the office. There is a
backup 3kW charger a mile from my house, but I will next be putting a
240v outlet in the garage for a home charger, too.

Along the route, there are a couple of quick charger locations at two
Walmarts, along with charging at two Nissan dealerships, all near the
highways I would routinely use on my commute.

I really think I've got charging covered with reasonable alternatives
available should my preferred be ICEd or otherwise unavailable. I have
not personally tested in our coldest weather, but I think there's
sufficient reserve for this to work, and there's always an ICE for
backup, but I'm adventurous enough to want to avoid that unless
absolutely necessary.

The biggest problem I find with the Leaf so far is it's so quiet I often
am exceeding the speed limit without recognizing just how fast I'm
going. I will learn to cope.

Best regards, -- Cal Frye,
www.calfrye.com /Be an Internet Sceptic/ Stop. Think. Connect.
www.stopthinkconnect.org - Be at least as safe on the Internet as you
are crossing the street!

"Good generally conquers evil. Unless, of course, good is stupid."


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Re: Leaf recommendations?

tomw
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Wow! You have all kinds of charging options! Should be no problem.  

Please say hi to Ben Brown of the Chargecar team if he is still around.  I think he may have retired.
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Re: Leaf recommendations?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
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Do not use cruise control at all times it will reduce your range.  It will however work well going up hills at a set speed.  The reason cruise control wastes energy is it always draws power or regens.  It never coasts so you lose that component you would have if you had your foot on the pedal.  With the foot on the pedal you can more efficiently back off rather than regening which wastes energy.  I know it's counter intuitive but if you put the power out and regen it's worse than just backing off.  Reclaimed energy is not as good as energy not used.  Does that make sense?  Lawrence Rhodes 
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