LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

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LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

Theoldcars@aol.com
Anyone know of any manufacturers selling the LifePo4 for replacing AGM  
Accessory Battery?
 
If not any ideas on what you feel would be the best way to  construct one?
 
Thank you
Don Blazer
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

Mark Grasser
Don,
I am developing LiFePO4 12 volt batteries for marine, motor home and now
Government vehicles that are mandated to shut off the vehicle engine
(Canada). Please contact me off list.  Markgrasseratbalyntec.com


Sincerely,
Mark Grasser
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EVDL] LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

Anyone know of any manufacturers selling the LifePo4 for replacing AGM  
Accessory Battery?
 
If not any ideas on what you feel would be the best way to  construct one?
 
Thank you
Don Blazer
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

Bill Dube
In reply to this post by Theoldcars@aol.com
There are countless 12 volt "drop-in" Li-Ion batteries on the market
these days. I'll list a few:

http://aeroakku.com/product_info.php/info/p452_A123-ALM-12V7.html/XTCsid/6080bc8403c1394e5f4a290fc5971132

http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/lithium-iron-phosphate/12v

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/lifepo4-12v.html

Bill D.



At 02:17 PM 7/17/2011, you wrote:

>Anyone know of any manufacturers selling the LifePo4 for replacing AGM
>Accessory Battery?
>
>If not any ideas on what you feel would be the best way to  construct one?
>
>Thank you
>Don Blazer
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

Cruisin
In reply to this post by Theoldcars@aol.com
I configure batteries for EV, motorcyles and scooters using Sanyo 18650 Li-ion 3.75v cells. Same cell used in the Tesla only these are 2.7ah. I can figure you a 12v or 16v pack any ah you want. My conversion uses the cells (6080 cells) in a 16v cifiguration 112v total 235ah for 26300kwh. Cost is about $1.00 per ah at 3.75v. For more info contact me at cruisin@live.com located in Livermore, CA.
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

Ricky Suiter
In reply to this post by Theoldcars@aol.com
This list is the first to hear this, but I've been running a 40Ah GBS pack in my Prius for the 12 volt battery for several months now without issue.

http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=90

*Disclaimer* I work for Elite Power Solutions which sells GBS cells.

In this case the 12 volt sees about a 13.6 volt constant float charge which puts it at about 3.4 volts per cell average, which is a slight under charge, but this should extend the cell life actually vs going to 100% at 3.6 volts per cell. I have individual cell balancers.

http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=152

The battery is buried away in the trunk area so I don't see it much if at all, but in the first few days of keeping an eye on it I am yet to see the balancers light, likely due to the slight under charge (balancers come on at 3.7 volts) but I feel better knowing they are there to help prevent SOC drift over time. I look at it this way, it's a bit of an experiment to see how well suited the battery will be for this type of application, it will either work or it won't so I intend to ignore it, but might run a capacity test on it after a year or so to see how it's holding up.

Granted for this application that battery does not start the engine, nor is this battery intended to do so. I'm hoping it will last for the rest of the life of the car. So far it's been through Phoenix summer and doesn't bat an eye at it.

To go this route you at least need a consistent 12 volt supply in about the 13.6 to 14.4 volt range, which is consistent with lead acid. As mentioned under charging will only cost you a few Ah and will extend the battery life. Without some means of low voltage cut out you risk permanently killing the pack if it is ever over discharged however. In my case the car is used at least weekly so it never has the change to be left to go dead, but if someone were to leave an interior light on accidentally it could immediately kill the battery if it is allowed to discharge to 0 volts. This is true for any lithium cell.

Regards,
Rick Suiter
Elite Power Solutions LLC
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 16:17:12 EDT
From: [hidden email]
Subject: [EVDL] LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Anyone know of any manufacturers selling the LifePo4 for replacing AGM 
Accessory Battery?
 
If not any ideas on what you feel would be the best way to  construct one?
 
Thank you
Don Blazer
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

jstack6
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
FYI, using LiPo to replace the starter battery would be for light use hybrids and EVs like the LEAF. A regular Internal Combustion or Diesel would pull way to much to start,especially in COLD weather areas.  
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

AMPhibian
I think some of the people who have done so might disagree with you.

jstack6 wrote
FYI, using LiPo to replace the starter battery would be for light use hybrids and EVs like the LEAF. A regular Internal Combustion or Diesel would pull way to much to start,especially in COLD weather areas.
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

Bill Dube
I have been running a 3.7 lb LiFePO4 starting battery in my 4.3 liter
GMC van for over four years here in Colorado. Winter and summer, hot
weather and cold weather, the van never fails to start. (Even at -20 F.)

Starting when it is _really_ cold is a bit different than it was the
stock lead-acid battery. With the original lead-acid battery, if it
didn't start on the first try, it was not going to start. With the
LiFePO4 battery in -20 F weather, the first attempt is a bit slow.
You then wait ~10 seconds, and crank it again. It will crank faster.
Repeat the process a third time, and it will crank much faster. It
always starts, no matter how cold it is, in three attempts or less. Always.

Above 10 F, the engine snaps right over and starts instantly with
just a tap of the starter.

The 3.7 lb LiFePO4 battery has ~720 cranking amps. It will start
pretty much any internal combustion engine.

I have started a turbine engine in a rocket drag car (Blaze of Glory)
with a 6.4 lb LiFePO4 battery. 1200+ amp initial draw at 24 volts.
The start sequence takes 30 seconds and requires that you spin the
engine up to at least 10% of maximum RPM.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1282730881951

Not "light duty", wouldn't you agree?

Bill D.


At 02:54 PM 7/24/2011, you wrote:

>I think some of the people who have done so might disagree with you.
>
>
>jstack6 wrote:
> >
> > FYI, using LiPo to replace the starter battery would be for light use
> > hybrids and EVs like the LEAF. A regular Internal Combustion or Diesel
> > would pull way to much to start,especially in COLD weather areas.
> >
>
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/LifePo4-for-replacing-AGM-Accessory-Battery-tp3673973p3690942.html
>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive
>at Nabble.com.
>
>_______________________________________________
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

jstack6
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
I'm impressed, what the amp hour size of the LiFePO4 you are using as a starter battery. The 3.7lbs doesn't give me much info. I've been told not to pull more that 2x the 2C rating of the Li battery.

I have a set of 3 parallel 40 amp 12v LiFePO4 that I use to start my PHEV50 prius. But that hardly pulls any amps.
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Re: LifePo4 for replacing AGM Accessory Battery

AMPhibian
It depends on the cell.  A123 has a much higher C rating than the cells you are using, assuming that's what Bill has.
jstack6 wrote
I'm impressed, what the amp hour size of the LiFePO4 you are using as a starter battery. The 3.7lbs doesn't give me much info. I've been told not to pull more that 2x the 2C rating of the Li battery.

I have a set of 3 parallel 40 amp 12v LiFePO4 that I use to start my PHEV50 prius. But that hardly pulls any amps.