Lithium battery comparisons

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Lithium battery comparisons

Mark Hanson-2

Hi Folk's,
 
I'm trying to decide which is best:
 
T-Sky/Winston LiFePO4 2.8V - 3.8V (min to max charge)
CALB LiFePO4 2.5V - 3.6V
GBS LiFeMNPO4 (don't see spec, max 100ah)
 
I'm doing a 2k lb Karmann Ghia with 36 cells (if 130ah) or 40 cells (if 100ah) about 300wh per mile for a 30 mile range.
 
The Thundersky with a bit higher taper voltage is good for the charger since the current drops off more at the higher voltage so the balancers don't fry.  Is that what the "Y" yttrium does for the battery, make it a bit higher in voltage?
 
Which battery has the best longevity?  Most distributors seam to think CALB.
 
I saw 8 packs of T-Sky 100ah batteries on Ebay for $1k each but were dated 08'.  What is the shelf life of Tsky's vs others?  Weren't there quality issues with T-Sky back in 08'?
 
Is there any advantage of adding "MN" into the mix as GBS does?  Also they have a 4 screw weird termination and I have the copper single hole strips I already bought.
 
I'll probably mount the balancers (shunt regulators) set to 3.6V or 3.8V under the dash to see with the 4.0V charger emergency cutt-off and 2.8 or 2.5V minimum led/beeper there with the battery scanner.
 
Have a renewable energy day,
mark
www.reevadiy.org community service RE & EV's.    
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Re: Lithium battery comparisons

KilowattA798
In a message dated 10/28/2011 5:30:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:
> Subj:[EVDL] Lithium battery comparisons
> Date:10/28/2011 5:30:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[hidden email]
> Reply-to:[hidden email]
> To:[hidden email]
> Received from Internet:
>
> Mark,

I have driven  my S 10 on GBS 100ah cells for 1545 miles now in the last 7
weeks. There are also 60 + 1/4 mile timeslips.I am happy with the Cells. The
cells come with great interconnects that in my case have taken the 10 C
output without problems. I like the 4 screws per terminal. The cells have
stainless inserts in the terminals so they will not strip.
I use the truck almost every day now for my service calls. Its a great
calling card.

Super Chevy is at Firebird this weekend. It would be nice to see some VOLTS
there.

Dennis Berube

>
>
> Hi Folk's,
>
> I'm trying to decide which is best:
>
> T-Sky/Winston LiFePO4 2.8V - 3.8V (min to max charge)
> CALB LiFePO4 2.5V - 3.6V
> GBS LiFeMNPO4 (don't see spec, max 100ah)
>
> I'm doing a 2k lb Karmann Ghia with 36 cells (if 130ah) or 40 cells (if
> 100ah) about 300wh per mile for a 30 mile range.
>
> The Thundersky with a bit higher taper voltage is good for the charger
> since the current drops off more at the higher voltage so the balancers don't
> fry.  Is that what the "Y" yttrium does for the battery, make it a bit
> higher in voltage?
>
> Which battery has the best longevity?  Most distributors seam to think
> CALB.
>
> I saw 8 packs of T-Sky 100ah batteries on Ebay for $1k each but were dated
> 08'.  What is the shelf life of Tsky's vs others?  Weren't there quality
> issues with T-Sky back in 08'?
>
> Is there any advantage of adding "MN" into the mix as GBS does?  Also they
> have a 4 screw weird termination and I have the copper single hole strips
> I already bought.
>
> I'll probably mount the balancers (shunt regulators) set to 3.6V or 3.8V
> under the dash to see with the 4.0V charger emergency cutt-off and 2.8 or
> 2.5V minimum led/beeper there with the battery scanner.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> mark
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Re: Lithium battery comparisons

Ken Fry
I'll second this.  I like GBS and Rick at Elite Power.
Think Big.
Drive Small.  
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Re: Lithium battery comparisons

AMPhibian
In reply to this post by Mark Hanson-2
My advice is to check with any supplier as to how closely matched the cells will be for capacity and resistance and what documentation will come with them to prove it.  That's one thing that seems to be very good with CALB cells, recent shipments have come within 1% of each others which makes balancing issues easier and should make the cells age more evenly.

Mark Hanson-2 wrote
Hi Folk's,
 
I'm trying to decide which is best:
 
T-Sky/Winston LiFePO4 2.8V - 3.8V (min to max charge)
CALB LiFePO4 2.5V - 3.6V
GBS LiFeMNPO4 (don't see spec, max 100ah)
 
I'm doing a 2k lb Karmann Ghia with 36 cells (if 130ah) or 40 cells (if 100ah) about 300wh per mile for a 30 mile range.
 
The Thundersky with a bit higher taper voltage is good for the charger since the current drops off more at the higher voltage so the balancers don't fry.  Is that what the "Y" yttrium does for the battery, make it a bit higher in voltage?
 
Which battery has the best longevity?  Most distributors seam to think CALB.
 
I saw 8 packs of T-Sky 100ah batteries on Ebay for $1k each but were dated 08'.  What is the shelf life of Tsky's vs others?  Weren't there quality issues with T-Sky back in 08'?
 
Is there any advantage of adding "MN" into the mix as GBS does?  Also they have a 4 screw weird termination and I have the copper single hole strips I already bought.
 
I'll probably mount the balancers (shunt regulators) set to 3.6V or 3.8V under the dash to see with the 4.0V charger emergency cutt-off and 2.8 or 2.5V minimum led/beeper there with the battery scanner.
 
Have a renewable energy day,
mark
www.reevadiy.org community service RE & EV's.    
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Re: Lithium battery comparisons

Lee Hart
On 10/28/2011 4:22 PM, AMPhibian wrote:
> My advice is to check with any supplier as to how closely matched the cells
> will be for capacity and resistance and what documentation will come with
> them to prove it.  That's one thing that seems to be very good with CALB
> cells, recent shipments have come within 1% of each others which makes
> balancing issues easier and should make the cells age more evenly.

I wish I knew of a supplier I could trust. Most of them are tiny new
businesses with no track record. They're big on promises, and short on
guarantees. I worry that they simply buy them from China, raises the
price, and ship 'em to you. Their "quality control" is a 5-second visual
inspection and quick voltage check; then it's out the door to the customer.

They have *no idea* how well matched they are, because they don't do any
testing. Simply measuring voltage tells you nothing except that the cell
isn't completely dead or totally defective.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Re: Lithium battery comparisons

David Dymaxion
Rich Rudman has been around for many years and sells batteries, and gave me a warranty period. http://www.manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.browse&category_id=28&vmcchk=1 It cost more to go through Rich, but his stability as an EV supplier and some warranty made me feel it was worth the extra cost.


Carl Clark http://www.electriccarinternational.com/ had a customer's pack go bad, and China HiPower replaced it, even though just a few cells were bad. A key part of that the BMS showed the batteries were bad, not a human factor.



________________________________
From: Lee Hart <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium battery comparisons

I wish I knew of a supplier I could trust. Most of them are tiny new
businesses with no track record. They're big on promises, and short on
guarantees. I worry that they simply buy them from China, raises the
price, and ship 'em to you. Their "quality control" is a 5-second visual
inspection and quick voltage check; then it's out the door to the customer.

They have *no idea* how well matched they are, because they don't do any
testing. Simply measuring voltage tells you nothing except that the cell
isn't completely dead or totally defective.
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Re: Lithium battery comparisons

Willie McKemie
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 05:20:21PM -0500, Lee Hart wrote:

> On 10/28/2011 4:22 PM, AMPhibian wrote:
> > My advice is to check with any supplier as to how closely matched the cells
> > will be for capacity and resistance and what documentation will come with
> > them to prove it.  That's one thing that seems to be very good with CALB
> > cells, recent shipments have come within 1% of each others which makes
> > balancing issues easier and should make the cells age more evenly.
>
> I wish I knew of a supplier I could trust. Most of them are tiny new
> businesses with no track record. They're big on promises, and short on
> guarantees. I worry that they simply buy them from China, raises the
> price, and ship 'em to you. Their "quality control" is a 5-second visual
> inspection and quick voltage check; then it's out the door to the customer.
>
> They have *no idea* how well matched they are, because they don't do any
> testing. Simply measuring voltage tells you nothing except that the cell
> isn't completely dead or totally defective.

Over the past three years or so, I've made four buys of TS cells from
three sources.  Total of about 145 cells.  Each of those sources has
delivered the promised cells in the promised time window.  I did not
ask for closely matched cells; each supplier told me they would supply
closely match cells.  Each batch of cells has seemed well matched; I
encounter mis-match trouble only when I mix cells from one batch to
another.  And that trouble has not been severe. With every purchase
I've received assurances of guarantees.  I've never had the need to
invoke a guarantee.  I've had several cells go bad but I attribute all
those failures to my mis-handling.
 
I opine: If you attempt to satisfy the needs of LFP cells, primarily
keeping them within a voltage range, your LFP pack will be the least
troublesome of your EV conversion components.

Coming soon: semi-detailed report of 30k miles on a LFP pack.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  29 days 13 hours 13 minutes

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