Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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Hi Folks
I’m trying to decide (with the Corona discount), a trip car like the Prius Prime vs Chevy Bolt (both about $18k, low miles 1-2 years old).  On the one hand, the 50Mpg Prime is a no brainer, but with the complexity/service of ICE.  What is the cost per KWH to charge at a fast charger?  Still 36c per KWH (vs 12c at home)?  50Mpg is about 4c per mile   I still have my Spark and Leaf for my son (free solar plug in at home) and I but the wife drives a Prius with 180k miles on it, thinking of something newer since used car prices are down during Corona.  Maybe a RAV4 plug in to pull the speedboat instead of the truck? Oh, they’re $40k, never mind.  I liked Dave’s email, crank windows and key start are fine with me, can’t afford a Tesla.  But with long range EVs (like the Chevy Bolt) now selling for $18k with 250 miles range, makes more sense.  Just worried about taking long trips in the winter with less range. (Usually go to Wash DC from Roanoke or to Atlanta for Bens Robot Battles).
Best regards
Mark in Roanoke Va

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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Early Leafs were $10,000 not long ago.

A hybrid?

“Give a hoot, don’t pollute!”

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Jul 10, 2020, at 8:23 AM, Mark Hanson via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks
> I’m trying to decide (with the Corona discount), a trip car like the Prius Prime vs Chevy Bolt (both about $18k, low miles 1-2 years old).  On the one hand, the 50Mpg Prime is a no brainer, but with the complexity/service of ICE.  What is the cost per KWH to charge at a fast charger?  Still 36c per KWH (vs 12c at home)?  50Mpg is about 4c per mile   I still have my Spark and Leaf for my son (free solar plug in at home) and I but the wife drives a Prius with 180k miles on it, thinking of something newer since used car prices are down during Corona.  Maybe a RAV4 plug in to pull the speedboat instead of the truck? Oh, they’re $40k, never mind.  I liked Dave’s email, crank windows and key start are fine with me, can’t afford a Tesla.  But with long range EVs (like the Chevy Bolt) now selling for $18k with 250 miles range, makes more sense.  Just worried about taking long trips in the winter with less range. (Usually go to Wash DC from Roanoke or to Atlanta for Bens Robot Battles).
> Best regards
> Mark in Roanoke Va
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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 Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com

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Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com

Save $3,735 on Used Tesla Under $20,000. Search 1,255 listings to find the best deals. iSeeCars.com analyzes pri...
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    On Friday, July 10, 2020, 10:23:50 AM CDT, Mark Hanson via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:  
 
 Hi Folks
I’m trying to decide (with the Corona discount), a trip car like the Prius Prime vs Chevy Bolt (both about $18k, low miles 1-2 years old).  On the one hand, the 50Mpg Prime is a no brainer, but with the complexity/service of ICE.  What is the cost per KWH to charge at a fast charger?  Still 36c per KWH (vs 12c at home)?  50Mpg is about 4c per mile  I still have my Spark and Leaf for my son (free solar plug in at home) and I but the wife drives a Prius with 180k miles on it, thinking of something newer since used car prices are down during Corona.  Maybe a RAV4 plug in to pull the speedboat instead of the truck? Oh, they’re $40k, never mind.  I liked Dave’s email, crank windows and key start are fine with me, can’t afford a Tesla.  But with long range EVs (like the Chevy Bolt) now selling for $18k with 250 miles range, makes more sense.  Just worried about taking long trips in the winter with less range. (Usually go to Wash DC from Roanoke or to Atlanta for Bens Robot Battles).
Best regards
Mark in Roanoke Va

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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Looks like the Chevy Bolt is the best price for a long range EV slightly used.  
Have a renewable energy day
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 10, 2020, at 12:23 PM, paul dove <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 
> Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com
>
> Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com
> Save $3,735 on Used Tesla Under $20,000. Search 1,255 listings to find the best deals. iSeeCars.com analyzes pri...
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 10, 2020, 10:23:50 AM CDT, Mark Hanson via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Folks
> I’m trying to decide (with the Corona discount), a trip car like the Prius Prime vs Chevy Bolt (both about $18k, low miles 1-2 years old).  On the one hand, the 50Mpg Prime is a no brainer, but with the complexity/service of ICE.  What is the cost per KWH to charge at a fast charger?  Still 36c per KWH (vs 12c at home)?  50Mpg is about 4c per mile  I still have my Spark and Leaf for my son (free solar plug in at home) and I but the wife drives a Prius with 180k miles on it, thinking of something newer since used car prices are down during Corona.  Maybe a RAV4 plug in to pull the speedboat instead of the truck? Oh, they’re $40k, never mind.  I liked Dave’s email, crank windows and key start are fine with me, can’t afford a Tesla.  But with long range EVs (like the Chevy Bolt) now selling for $18k with 250 miles range, makes more sense.  Just worried about taking long trips in the winter with less range. (Usually go to Wash DC from Roanoke or to Atlanta for Bens Robot Battles).
> Best regards
> Mark in Roanoke Va
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Looks like the Chevy Bolt is the best price for a long range EV slightly used.  
Have a renewable energy day
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

>> On Jul 10, 2020, at 12:23 PM, paul dove <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 
> Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com
>
> Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com
> Save $3,735 on Used Tesla Under $20,000. Search 1,255 listings to find the best deals. iSeeCars.com analyzes pri...
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 10, 2020, 10:23:50 AM CDT, Mark Hanson via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Folks
> I’m trying to decide (with the Corona discount), a trip car like the Prius Prime vs Chevy Bolt (both about $18k, low miles 1-2 years old).  On the one hand, the 50Mpg Prime is a no brainer, but with the complexity/service of ICE.  What is the cost per KWH to charge at a fast charger?  Still 36c per KWH (vs 12c at home)?  50Mpg is about 4c per mile  I still have my Spark and Leaf for my son (free solar plug in at home) and I but the wife drives a Prius with 180k miles on it, thinking of something newer since used car prices are down during Corona.  Maybe a RAV4 plug in to pull the speedboat instead of the truck? Oh, they’re $40k, never mind.  I liked Dave’s email, crank windows and key start are fine with me, can’t afford a Tesla.  But with long range EVs (like the Chevy Bolt) now selling for $18k with 250 miles range, makes more sense.  Just worried about taking long trips in the winter with less range. (Usually go to Wash DC from Roanoke or to Atlanta for Bens Robot Battles).
> Best regards
> Mark in Roanoke Va
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
> Early Leafs were $10,000 not long ago.
>
> A hybrid?
>
> “Give a hoot, don’t pollute!”

Well, my only ICE car is a plug-in Prius. I had to buy it used in
Massachusetts to get it, as Toyota won't sell them here. It has about a
20-mile range as an EV, which is enough for one trip around town at a
time (but then it charges back up pretty fast at home). The ICE is only
used for long trips.

Actually, I don't even get to drive it much. It's my son's "daily driver".

Do what works for you,
Lee Hart

--
If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
  - something to do
  - something to look forward to
  - someone to love
  - someone to take good care of
  - and misbehave, just a little
  --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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FWIW those $12k-$14k Teslas are wrecked, lots of damage, probably considered "totaled"

The cheapest listed Tesla without obvious damage is $25k

July 10, 2020 9:12 AM, "paul dove via EV" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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Yeah sounds like a year old Chevy Bolt or Prius Prime makes the most sense.  As Consumer Reports noted in last months issue, used EVs are the most cost effective way to go, typically 30-50% in the first year or two ). Teslas are like Harleys, paying for the name and don’t drop much.  The other long range EVs are too pricey now and not much on the used car market.  Let someone else pay that first year big depreciation (and get the bugs worked out on new models )
Best regards
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 10, 2020, at 3:20 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> FWIW those $12k-$14k Teslas are wrecked, lots of damage, probably considered "totaled"
>
> The cheapest listed Tesla without obvious damage is $25k
>
> July 10, 2020 9:12 AM, "paul dove via EV" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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Hello Mark,

Some Chevy dealers have installed Level 3 charging and they allow
Chevy EV owners to connect their Bolts to their system for free.  I
don't know if this is still the case.  I was pumping 20 kwhr into a
pack but it slowed up so a complete top off from almost empty takes
about 4 hours.  I visited one dealer in particular and the service
tech saw the charger was ICE'd and he ran on it, got the key and moved
the offending vehicle without asking!!

I would also opt for the Premium level as this provides a lot of
safety features that can save you from dings.  The rear view video in
the rear view mirror allows for a sweeping uncluttered view from a
camera mounted in the trunk door.  Anti-collision warnings when
pulling out of a parking spot work really well both for cars and
pedestians.  There are also Blind Spot indicator lights that light up
in the corners of the side mirrors.  While not great at the time but
when lit, you don't want to change lanes. When unlit, you need to
verify.

The seats tend to be narrow but I found adding some padding to the
seat back really helps.  The heated seats and steering wheel save on
electrons versus heating the cabin.

I would love to see the Chevy safety philosophy merged into the
Teslas.  Chevy warns and lets you make up your mind while Tesla seems
to say: "Technology knows best."  Teslas do have some amazing
technologies along with their quirks.

Peter


On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 3:43 AM Mark Hanson via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Looks like the Chevy Bolt is the best price for a long range EV slightly used.
> Have a renewable energy day
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> >> On Jul 10, 2020, at 12:23 PM, paul dove <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > 
> > Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com
> >
> > Used Tesla Under $20,000: 1,255 Cars from $12,900 - iSeeCars.com
> > Save $3,735 on Used Tesla Under $20,000. Search 1,255 listings to find the best deals. iSeeCars.com analyzes pri...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, July 10, 2020, 10:23:50 AM CDT, Mark Hanson via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Folks
> > I’m trying to decide (with the Corona discount), a trip car like the Prius Prime vs Chevy Bolt (both about $18k, low miles 1-2 years old).  On the one hand, the 50Mpg Prime is a no brainer, but with the complexity/service of ICE.  What is the cost per KWH to charge at a fast charger?  Still 36c per KWH (vs 12c at home)?  50Mpg is about 4c per mile  I still have my Spark and Leaf for my son (free solar plug in at home) and I but the wife drives a Prius with 180k miles on it, thinking of something newer since used car prices are down during Corona.  Maybe a RAV4 plug in to pull the speedboat instead of the truck? Oh, they’re $40k, never mind.  I liked Dave’s email, crank windows and key start are fine with me, can’t afford a Tesla.  But with long range EVs (like the Chevy Bolt) now selling for $18k with 250 miles range, makes more sense.  Just worried about taking long trips in the winter with less range. (Usually go to Wash DC from Roanoke or to Atlanta for Bens Robot Battles).
> > Best regards
> > Mark in Roanoke Va
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
> about 4 hours.  I visited one dealer in particular and the service
> tech saw the charger was ICE'd and he ran on it, got the key and moved
> the offending vehicle without asking!

That's a pleasant contrast from our local Chevy dealer. A friend wanted
to buy a Volt. The dealer claimed it wasn't available, so he showed them
it was. Then they said they didn't have any; so he showed them GM's
inventory list that said they did. They finally found the car, buried
way at the back of their lot. At every opportunity, they tried to get
him to buy another car or SUV instead.

The last time I took our Leaf to the local Nissan dealer, the charging
spot was ICE'd with the dealer's cars. When I asked if I could charge,
they said, "No, we don't sell Leafs". Never mind that I bought my Leaf
from them in 2013.

It is gratifying for me to read about areas of the country where EVs
really are catching on, and becoming accepted and commonplace. But it's
still like the 1990's here.

Lee Hart

--
If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
  - something to do
  - something to look forward to
  - someone to love
  - someone to take good care of
  - and misbehave, just a little
  --
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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On 7/11/20 11:22 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> The last time I took our Leaf to the local Nissan dealer, the charging
> spot was ICE'd with the dealer's cars. When I asked if I could charge,
> they said, "No, we don't sell Leafs". Never mind that I bought my Leaf
> from them in 2013.

I bought a Leaf from a dealer in 2011.  Of course, at that time, dealers
were by passed in the sales process.  The worst the dealer ever did to
me is attempt to charge me for an oil change.  That is a very common
Leaf story in this area.  I shudder to think of all the ICE models that
have been charged for dealer oil changes and not received them.  Makes
for more dealer repair work down the line.  Of course, their J1772
charge stations were almost always ICEd.

The bottom line is that, generally, ICE dealers do not want your EV
business.  That's a major reason Tesla adopted the direct sales model.
Tesla treats customers fairly and very well.

I personally feel/hope that legacy ICE manufacturers and their dealers
will disappear in coming years.  The dealer model would be a major
cause.  With the current dealer model, the dealers can not survive
selling reliable and maintenance free cars.  They must make their money
repairing unreliable broken cars and doing the routine tuneups, oil
changes, software updates, etc.

I urge you to monitor Tesla developments with an eye to fitting one into
your budget.  Aside from the perceived high prices, all other EVs pale
in comparison.



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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Hi Lee

I'm sorry to hear that.  Dealers don't sell any oil changes and tune
ups to EV owners.  But I'm not sure of why the helpful Chevy dealer in
Hickory, NC is different than one in Raleigh, NC

When I went to buy a Bolt, there was a push by Sales to have us in
anything but a Bolt.  We didn't budge, they backed down.  A sale is a
sale even if the TPTB wanted us in an ICE.

On the day of the signing, my son noticed that the back fender was
scratched.  The dealership planted some stiff shrubs and it was easy
to back into one.  I suspect that's what happened.  They took it to a
local shop to have it repaired.  We took ownership of the car one
evening and when driving home, my son mentioned we didn't have any
tail lights!!  They came with a loaner the next day while we waited a
week to have everything reconnected and checked out.  Reminds me of
the Keystone Kops but in the automotive repair management sense.  The
fender repair was very good.  I kind of thought we might be offered
free oil changes...

They said they would show us where the charger was located on their
lot but they never did.  Lots of promises.  I understand why Bolt
sales may not be as high as some may want them to be.  I don't know if
they have come around or not.

My son drives the Bolt and loves it!!  His one way commute is 37 miles
and he plugs into the 120V while at home.  Toward the end of the week,
he might stop off at a 50 kw Level 3, grab a burger, eat, unplug, and
then head for home.  By Monday, he's fully charged even with weekend
errands.

Buying a Tesla was a whole different experience.  Slick.  We are
retired and wanted to travel.  The Bolt was not going to hack it.  We
test drove a Model 3 and put a downpayment on it that Sunday
afternoon.  On Monday we were notified that it had been "birthed" and
was on an automotive carrier headed our way.  By Tuesday, it was in
Albuquerque.  On Friday, we visited the Tesla Store and a sales guy
showed us that it was just pulling out of Charlotte; headed our way.
It was kind of spooky; like Big Brother looking over our shoulders
wherever we go.  It's the new connected world and I'm not sure if I
like it.

Then Covid hit.

Stay safe!!

Peter

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 12:20 PM Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
> > about 4 hours.  I visited one dealer in particular and the service
> > tech saw the charger was ICE'd and he ran on it, got the key and moved
> > the offending vehicle without asking!
>
> That's a pleasant contrast from our local Chevy dealer. A friend wanted
> to buy a Volt. The dealer claimed it wasn't available, so he showed them
> it was. Then they said they didn't have any; so he showed them GM's
> inventory list that said they did. They finally found the car, buried
> way at the back of their lot. At every opportunity, they tried to get
> him to buy another car or SUV instead.
>
> The last time I took our Leaf to the local Nissan dealer, the charging
> spot was ICE'd with the dealer's cars. When I asked if I could charge,
> they said, "No, we don't sell Leafs". Never mind that I bought my Leaf
> from them in 2013.
>
> It is gratifying for me to read about areas of the country where EVs
> really are catching on, and becoming accepted and commonplace. But it's
> still like the 1990's here.
>
> Lee Hart
>
> --
> If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find:
>   - something to do
>   - something to look forward to
>   - someone to love
>   - someone to take good care of
>   - and misbehave, just a little
>   --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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>
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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On 11 Jul 2020 at 11:22, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> It is gratifying for me to read about areas of the country where EVs
> really are catching on, and becoming accepted and commonplace. But it's
> still like the 1990's here.

Sorry to keep rehashing this, but this is one of the big EV differences
between the US and western Europe (Italy excepted).  

My most recent experience is in France, where you see decent numbers of EVs
in the big cities, and fewer in the rural areas there.  So far, so similar,
and no surprise.

But the difference in the dealer treatment seems stark.  I've read online EV
forums from there, and although I've seen service department gripes, I have
yet to hear of anyone being shooed away from an EV purchase by a dealer.

Nor was that my experience. When I was in rural France last autumn, I
stopped by a Renault dealer in a town of about 11,000 people.  They had two
Zoes sitting out in front of the showroom, keeping company with the Clios
and Capturs on offer.

So I walked in and asked a salesman what it would cost to buy one.  He took
me over to his desk and wrote up a bid on the spot.  He didn't try to shove
me into one of their specially-priced Meganes, or convince me that I didn't
really want an EV.  He even included a fairly respectable discount from list
price, without my even asking for one.  

I think that's the other reason, besides serious efforts from governments,
that EV sales are growing rapidly in Europe.  The dealers stock them and
sell them.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

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offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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     The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names
     to constants. Instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793
     at every appearance, the variable PI can be given that value
     with a DATA statement and used instead of the longer form of
     the constant. This also simplifies modifying the program,
     should the value of pi change.

                 -- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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On 11 Jul 2020 at 11:53, Willie via EV wrote:

> I urge you to monitor Tesla developments with an eye to fitting one into your
> budget.  Aside from the perceived high prices, all other EVs pale in
> comparison.

I agree that they're well designed cars.  

I have some concerns about them that I've posted here before.  I don't want
autopilot, or cameras inside and out.  Built-in satnav with the ability to
guide me to a charging point sounds nice, but I'll give it up rather than
drive a "connected car."

Some folks have pointed out in the past that owners can turn off at least
some of the Tesla gadgetry.  That may be true, but if I'm not going to use
it, I don't want to pay for it!

Still, I'd consider a Tesla -- IF they'd build a car that suited my needs.
The problem is, I don't need a large or midsize car.  I don't want a sedan
or an SUV.  And right now, that's what Tesla makes.

What I'd look at is a subcompact (B-class size) hatchback Tesla. I can't
believe that I'm the only one.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
     Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with every Microsoft
     product.

                                   -- Ferenc Mantfeld
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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> That's a pleasant contrast from our local Chevy dealer. A friend wanted to buy a Volt. The dealer
> claimed it wasn't available, so he showed them it was. Then they said they didn't have any; so he
> showed them GM's inventory list that said they did. They finally found the car, buried way at the
> back of their lot. At every opportunity, they tried to get him to buy another car or SUV instead.
>

A lot like the Chevy dealers here.  The local dealer refuses to stock EVs and when I went there, they did everything the could to try to talk me out of buying an EV.  So I drove 90 miles to a dealer in Tucson.
 
They sold me a Chevy Bolt, no problems.  The sales guy even told me they had a DC fast charger and I was welcome to use it at any time (during business hours), so back in January I had a bussiness trip up in Phoenix, no problem getting there, but getting home is a bit iffy since it was 170 miles on the highway with almost 5000 feet of climbing.  
So I stopped at the dealer in Tucson figured I'd get 20 minutes of fast charging.  The service department (who is in charge of the charger) told it was not available to customers, it was only there for the service department to use in case they needed it to work on an EV.

If a dealer doesn't want to share their chargers with their customers that's fine, but don't lie to them and tell them they can use it when they can't.

When it comes to EVs, Chevy has some of the best engineers out there, and absolutely the WORST marketing and dealers.
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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> I bought a Leaf from a dealer in 2011. Of course, at that time, dealers were by passed in the sales
> process. The worst the dealer ever did to me is attempt to charge me for an oil change.

The Driver Information Display crapped out on my Volt so I took it in to be replaced.

 While I was there the dealer tells me "Hmm, I see it's been 5500 miles since your last oil change, you should get it changed soon"

I reponded that the "Oil Life" display said the I still had over 70% of the oil life remaining.  He says, "Yeah but we still recommend changing the oil every 3,000 miles"

So I say "Considering you can easily go 3000-6000 miles or more without the generator EVER turning on, how many customers with Volts actually fall for that scam?"

He just shrugged and repeated "We reccomend changing the oil every 3,000 miles"

With the oil life monitoring system, I average around 25,000 miles between oil changes and I change it when it gets below 5%.  From an article I read, even when normal cars with out life displays, with synthetic oil, get to 0%, the oil is still in good enough condition for another 3000-5000 miles.
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Re: Long Range EVs, hybrids trade offs $18k (Corona Discount)

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On 7/11/20 6:53 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

> Still, I'd consider a Tesla -- IF they'd build a car that suited my needs.
> The problem is, I don't need a large or midsize car.  I don't want a sedan
> or an SUV.  And right now, that's what Tesla makes.
>
> What I'd look at is a subcompact (B-class size) hatchback Tesla. I can't
> believe that I'm the only one.

What you describe is close to an imiev.  Did you consider one when they
were available?  Likely, you would have considered the initial, ~$30k,
pricing too high.  I did.  So, I became a bottom feeder even after I
bought my first Tesla.  After Mitsubishi decided they couldn't sell the
imiev profitably in the USA, they cleared out the stock.  It took many
dealers that had been pushing imievs two years to get everything sold.
Two year old but new 2014s were offered for around $15k BEFORE income
tax credit.  Net cost, $10k or below.  I think my 2nd imiev was near $8k
after tax credit.  Did you shop for imievs at that time?  That would
have been 2016-2017.

Mitsubishi dealers in the more major Texas metropolitan areas got behind
the imiev and ordered generous stocks.  It seems to their detriment.  My
near by Austin dealers did not.  I ended up buying my first imiev out of
the Dallas area.  And was pleasured with the adventure of tow charging
it home.  A year later, an even better deal appeared in Houston.  Again,
had to tow charge it home.

But, for whatever reason, the imiev was a failure in the market.
Probably not enough demand at the asked for price.

We seem to have the same situation developing with Bolts.  A not
compelling enough car not selling well enough and being offered at steep
discounts.

What you ask of Tesla is to abandon their profitable market and chase
one that has seemed unprofitable.  Tesla buyers find the product
compelling and are eager to see the Tesla company survive and thrive.
Therefore, they don't wait for "close out" pricing.  Tesla production
capacity is rapidly rising as a result of previous profitable sales.  As
that capacity rises, along with their production efficiency, they will
be forced to start chasing the lower end of the market.  That has been
their stated game plan all along.  If you are not willing to support
Tesla by buying current products, be patient.  They will get around to you.


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