Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

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Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Lawrence Rhodes

We all should be reminded where car companies make their money.  Or lets say the dealers.  The car companies produce vehicles for a song.  Mark them up very high & the dealers,,, well deal with it,,, making much profit from service.  The car companies make a bunch in parts sales to the dealers.  They engineer it that way.  Things break on purpose.  It should be a crime but I digress. The car dealers don't think they are Sears & don't want to sell washing machines.  However a washing machine is much like an electric car.  Electric motor, controls.  Motor controller.  Yep instead of spinning wheels the washing machine spins clothes.  When an electric car comes in for service at a typical dealer they put air in the tires & some fluid in the window washer and say bye bye.  They also say bye bye to their service profit.  They can only hope some bearings go bad or a battery connection comes lose and destroys a battery.  Oh Joy.  A wreck.  That's the only way
 you will service an electric vehicle.  Also some owners don't charge enough or do something silly like reverse the 12v system battery and take out the controller in some models.  I know.  I've serviced electric vehicles in San Francisco for many years and once going they rarely come back for service.  (I know what the Maytag repairman feels like) This includes conversions.  Once EVery thing is right they go like the energizer bunny.  Once in a while a wire breaks or a battery connection fails but it is rare.  IF the owners does a minimum of checking the connections monthly nothing bad happens for years.  So maybe Maytag should manufacture evs.  Sears should sell them.  They seem to know how to make a profit on an electric appliance which is what a car is if it runs on electricity.  Lawrence Rhodes  BTW my washing machine just broke & I fixed it.  I'll talk about that if you want.

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Re: Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Lee Hart
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> We all should be reminded where car companies make their money... The
> car companies produce vehicles for a song. Mark them up very high...
> dealers... make much profit from service. The car companies make a
> bunch in parts sales to the dealers. They engineer it that way.
> Things break on purpose.
>
> When an electric car comes in for service at a typical dealer, they
> put air in the tires & some fluid in the window washer and say bye
> bye.  They also say bye bye to their service profit.

If this is true, I don't understand why the auto companies and their
dealers don't embrace EVs with normal lead-acid batteries and brushed
motors. Instead of the 3000-mile oil change/checkup, they'd have the
3000-mile battery watering/checkup. Instead of all the belts, hoses,
filters, and other routine maintenance on an ICE, they'd have motor
brushes and other routine maintenance on the DC traction motor.

The auto companies are already using huge numbers of lead-acid batteries
and brushed DC motors. They understand them, and know how to design,
build, and service them.

So, why do they insist on "lifetime" motors and batteries that don't
exist, no matter what the cost? Are they *trying* to find solutions that
put themselves out of work?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Re: Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Lawrence Rhodes
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> BTW my washing machine just broke & I fixed it.  I'll talk about that
if you want.

It sounds to me you just did ;-)

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        magicJack: +1 408 844 3932
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

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Re: Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Zeke Yewdall
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
It's a version of the strawman argument often used by people/companies
wanting to keep the status quo... claim that you want to promote X
because it's better than the current situation.  When someone proposes
an incremental solution on the way to X, compare it to X and point out
all the flaws compared to X, and claim that it's just not very good
compared to X, which you would support, but you can't support the
halfharted incremental goal with all its flaws.  Make sure that X is
so perfect and far out that it's unachievable in the near term, so you
can thus avoid doing anything different than normal for the seeable
future.

Z

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>> We all should be reminded where car companies make their money... The
>> car companies produce vehicles for a song. Mark them up very high...
>> dealers... make much profit from service. The car companies make a
>> bunch in parts sales to the dealers. They engineer it that way.
>> Things break on purpose.
>>
>> When an electric car comes in for service at a typical dealer, they
>> put air in the tires & some fluid in the window washer and say bye
>> bye.  They also say bye bye to their service profit.
>
> If this is true, I don't understand why the auto companies and their
> dealers don't embrace EVs with normal lead-acid batteries and brushed
> motors. Instead of the 3000-mile oil change/checkup, they'd have the
> 3000-mile battery watering/checkup. Instead of all the belts, hoses,
> filters, and other routine maintenance on an ICE, they'd have motor
> brushes and other routine maintenance on the DC traction motor.
>
> The auto companies are already using huge numbers of lead-acid batteries
> and brushed DC motors. They understand them, and know how to design,
> build, and service them.
>
> So, why do they insist on "lifetime" motors and batteries that don't
> exist, no matter what the cost? Are they *trying* to find solutions that
> put themselves out of work?
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Roger Heuckeroth
That is exactly why all the car companies jumped on the hydrogen fuel  
cell bandwagon.  Its for public perception, all of them know the  
investment required to set up a hydrogen infrastructure would be  
massive, therefore it is unlikely they would ever need to build such a  
car.  But it makes them look like they are on a noble quest.  Its all  
just a sham.  Meanwhile they argue that a plain old EV is just not  
practical because of the battery limitations, but they don't invest a  
cent into battery development.  GM takes the first opportunity to sell  
the NiMH Ovonics technology to Texaco/Chevron, and the rest is  
history.  GM deserves to be going into bankruptcy.  They have nobody  
to blame but themselves.  It makes me sick.

Sorry for the rant.

On Apr 25, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:

> It's a version of the strawman argument often used by people/companies
> wanting to keep the status quo... claim that you want to promote X
> because it's better than the current situation.  When someone proposes
> an incremental solution on the way to X, compare it to X and point out
> all the flaws compared to X, and claim that it's just not very good
> compared to X, which you would support, but you can't support the
> halfharted incremental goal with all its flaws.  Make sure that X is
> so perfect and far out that it's unachievable in the near term, so you
> can thus avoid doing anything different than normal for the seeable
> future.
>
> Z
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Lee Hart <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
>> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>>> We all should be reminded where car companies make their money...  
>>> The
>>> car companies produce vehicles for a song. Mark them up very high...
>>> dealers... make much profit from service. The car companies make a
>>> bunch in parts sales to the dealers. They engineer it that way.
>>> Things break on purpose.
>>>
>>> When an electric car comes in for service at a typical dealer, they
>>> put air in the tires & some fluid in the window washer and say bye
>>> bye.  They also say bye bye to their service profit.
>>
>> If this is true, I don't understand why the auto companies and their
>> dealers don't embrace EVs with normal lead-acid batteries and brushed
>> motors. Instead of the 3000-mile oil change/checkup, they'd have the
>> 3000-mile battery watering/checkup. Instead of all the belts, hoses,
>> filters, and other routine maintenance on an ICE, they'd have motor
>> brushes and other routine maintenance on the DC traction motor.
>>
>> The auto companies are already using huge numbers of lead-acid  
>> batteries
>> and brushed DC motors. They understand them, and know how to design,
>> build, and service them.
>>
>> So, why do they insist on "lifetime" motors and batteries that don't
>> exist, no matter what the cost? Are they *trying* to find solutions  
>> that
>> put themselves out of work?
>> --
>> Ring the bells that still can ring
>> Forget the perfect offering
>> There is a crack in everything
>> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,  
>> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Gail Lucas-2
In reply to this post by Lawrence Rhodes
Hi Lawrence,

My Maytag dryer quit recently and it is only 30 years old.  Any chance you
will be visiting Las Vegas and want to stop by and fix it?  If not, I think
I will replace it with a clothes line.

Gail

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: "SFEVA" <[hidden email]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:02 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Maytag should manufacture electric cars.


BTW my washing machine just broke & I fixed it.  I'll talk about that if you
want.

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Re: Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

mark at evie-systems
Solar Powered Cloths Dryer... excellent!

Gail Lucas wrote:
> Hi Lawrence,
>
> If not, I think
> I will replace it with a clothes line.
>
> Gail
>

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~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
mark@evie-systems.com
"Delay is preferable to error", Thomas Jefferson.
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Re: [sfeva] Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Jorg Brown
In reply to this post by Lawrence Rhodes
Yeah, that's why dealerships for unreliable brands like Fiat and Yugo are
doing so well, and so many Toyota and Honda dealerships have had to close
their doors.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Lawrence Rhodes <[hidden email]
> wrote:

>
> We all should be reminded where car companies make their money.  Or lets
> say the dealers.  The car companies produce vehicles for a song.  Mark them
> up very high & the dealers,,, well deal with it,,, making much profit from
> service.  The car companies make a bunch in parts sales to the dealers.
>  They engineer it that way.  Things break on purpose.  It should be a crime
> but I digress. The car dealers don't think they are Sears & don't want to
> sell washing machines.  However a washing machine is much like an electric
> car.  Electric motor, controls.  Motor controller.  Yep instead of spinning
> wheels the washing machine spins clothes.  When an electric car comes in for
> service at a typical dealer they put air in the tires & some fluid in the
> window washer and say bye bye.  They also say bye bye to their service
> profit.  They can only hope some bearings go bad or a battery connection
> comes lose and destroys a battery.  Oh Joy.  A wreck.  That's the only way
>  you will service an electric vehicle.  Also some owners don't charge
> enough or do something silly like reverse the 12v system battery and take
> out the controller in some models.  I know.  I've serviced electric vehicles
> in San Francisco for many years and once going they rarely come back for
> service.  (I know what the Maytag repairman feels like) This includes
> conversions.  Once EVery thing is right they go like the energizer bunny.
>  Once in a while a wire breaks or a battery connection fails but it is rare.
>  IF the owners does a minimum of checking the connections monthly nothing
> bad happens for years.  So maybe Maytag should manufacture evs.  Sears
> should sell them.  They seem to know how to make a profit on an electric
> appliance which is what a car is if it runs on electricity.  Lawrence Rhodes
>  BTW my washing machine just broke & I fixed it.  I'll talk about that if
> you want.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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Re: [sfeva] Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Lee Hart
Jorg Brown wrote:
> Yeah, that's why dealerships for unreliable brands like Fiat and Yugo are
> doing so well, and so many Toyota and Honda dealerships have had to close
> their doors.

What's the emoticon for "sarcasm"?

The key is that shoddy businesses with dishonest practices make money in
the short run, but lose in the long run. Toyota and Honda survive,
because they build cars that hold up. GM and Chrysler are dying because
they don't.

This ought to be a lesson for would-be EV manufacturers. *Many* of the
small EV start-ups that we've seen in the past 50 years have tried to
make a "fast buck" by selling poorly built cars through clueless dealers
that can't maintain them. It always works for a while; then it all
catches up to them and the company dies.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Re: [sfeva] Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Cor van de Water
Like this:
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9863/sarcasmsmiley3np4ph.jpg
Want to join the petition?
http://www.petitiononline.com/sarcasm/petition.html 

HTML sarcasm tag discussion:
http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/25/friday-fun-the-sarcasm-tag/

Then the protocol request for sarcasm over IP (SoIP)
apparently requested to allow the Brits to properly
commmunicate over the internet:
http://www.trovster.com/blog/2006/03/soip

There appear to be both an irony mark and a sarcasm mark:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm_mark

So while the emoticon could be difficult to render in text
(some suggest the tilde ~ ) the designation of a piece of
text as beinng sarcastic is quite possible. (!)

Note that I have seen this mark being used non-sarcastically
and just to show surprise, to make readers pay attention to
a statement which is unexpected. Such as:
This value is about thousand (!) times the expected level.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        magicJack: +1 408 844 3932
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:54 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [sfeva] Maytag should manufacture electric cars.

Jorg Brown wrote:
> Yeah, that's why dealerships for unreliable brands like Fiat and Yugo
are
> doing so well, and so many Toyota and Honda dealerships have had to
close
> their doors.

What's the emoticon for "sarcasm"?

The key is that shoddy businesses with dishonest practices make money in

the short run, but lose in the long run. Toyota and Honda survive,
because they build cars that hold up. GM and Chrysler are dying because
they don't.

This ought to be a lesson for would-be EV manufacturers. *Many* of the
small EV start-ups that we've seen in the past 50 years have tried to
make a "fast buck" by selling poorly built cars through clueless dealers

that can't maintain them. It always works for a while; then it all
catches up to them and the company dies.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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