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MiniBMS replacement boards?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I find myself in need of a few spare MiniBMS boards. Specifically, the
small ones programmed for Leaf modules (4.15 volt shunt, 4.20 volt high
alarm/loop drop).

The ones I have say CleanPowerAutoLLC 2014, v3 MiniBMS on the front and
"RZ-01  94V-0CCS  0215" on the back.

I would also consider any "loop style" individual MiniBMS style boards
that I could put into the loop with them, but would prefer the same model.

Anybody have extra stock they are willing to part with or pointers to a
replacement board?   (They look simple enough that I could manufacture
my own if there was an open source design somewhere....)

Thanks,
Jay
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Re: MiniBMS replacement boards?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Can't say about the availability of v.3 boards, the whole Clean Power
Auto inventory and business was sold to an Australian or New Zealand
company that modified the design, but seem to still be supplying units.

The "original" MiniBMS design ~was~ an open source project that was
developed on the diyelectriccar forums, and went through a couple of
evolutions as the users there refined the design. Once it was a
workable, marketable product, Dimitri took it commercial/private and
basically stiffed the fellow developers, most of whom weren't at all
happy about that turn of developments.

V.3 boards chucked the four-section LM239/339 comparitor design and
went to an Atmel ATTiny45v AVR. Obviously, the code is proprietary,
but really isn't anything a competent Arduino experimenter couldn't replicate.

I'm actually developing a similar BMS based on the v.3 boards, but
with some significant improvements. These will go on the leaf modules
I just purchased to repower my ElecTrak tractor. I was going to build
five units that could monitor 5 modules (total of 10 cells), but the
PC board layout and code would be up for grabs for other users who
wanted to build their own. Of course, none of it would be based
directly on the MiniBMS designs, which I consider to be open source
by default of the cooperation that went into their development from
the beginning.

If it's helpful, I have circuit schematics for the "v.2" miniBMS
modules and the head unit, in case anyone needs to do repairs or
modifications to them. I've repaired and tested quite a few of these,
the biggest problem seems to be creepage between the pack potential
and the alarm loop, and defective solid state relays, which are cheap
and easy to replace.

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Re: MiniBMS replacement boards?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list


On 8/13/19 6:30 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
> Can't say about the availability of v.3 boards, the whole Clean Power
> Auto inventory and business was sold to an Australian or New Zealand
> company that modified the design, but seem to still be supplying units.

A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.

>
> I'm actually developing a similar BMS based on the v.3 boards, but with
> some significant improvements. These will go on the leaf modules I just
> purchased to repower my ElecTrak tractor. I was going to build five
> units that could monitor 5 modules (total of 10 cells), but the PC board
> layout and code would be up for grabs for other users who wanted to
> build their own. Of course, none of it would be based directly on the
> MiniBMS designs, which I consider to be open source by default of the
> cooperation that went into their development from the beginning.
>

Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
Thanks,
Jay
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Re: MiniBMS replacement boards?

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list


On 13/08/19 17:30, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:

> Can't say about the availability of v.3 boards, the whole Clean Power
> Auto inventory and business was sold to an Australian or New Zealand
> company that modified the design, but seem to still be supplying units.
>
> The "original" MiniBMS design ~was~ an open source project that was
> developed on the diyelectriccar forums, and went through a couple of
> evolutions as the users there refined the design. Once it was a
> workable, marketable product, Dimitri took it commercial/private and
> basically stiffed the fellow developers, most of whom weren't at all
> happy about that turn of developments.
>
> V.3 boards chucked the four-section LM239/339 comparitor design and
> went to an Atmel ATTiny45v AVR. Obviously, the code is proprietary,
> but really isn't anything a competent Arduino experimenter couldn't
> replicate.
>
> I'm actually developing a similar BMS based on the v.3 boards, but
> with some significant improvements. These will go on the leaf modules
> I just purchased to repower my ElecTrak tractor. I was going to build
> five units that could monitor 5 modules (total of 10 cells), but the
> PC board layout and code would be up for grabs for other users who
> wanted to build their own. Of course, none of it would be based
> directly on the MiniBMS designs, which I consider to be open source by
> default of the cooperation that went into their development from the
> beginning.
>
> If it's helpful, I have circuit schematics for the "v.2" miniBMS
> modules and the head unit, in case anyone needs to do repairs or
> modifications to them. I've repaired and tested quite a few of these,
> the biggest problem seems to be creepage between the pack potential
> and the alarm loop, and defective solid state relays, which are cheap
> and easy to replace.

I was an early customer of an Australian company that did cell modules
for LFP cells; they had flat copper foils that needed to come close to
matching cell terminal spacing.  miniBMS came later and seemed to be a
knockoff but used more versatile "fly wires" .  I have a box full of
miniBMS modules of various vintages as well as some Australian ones.  I
can be dealt with.

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Re: MiniBMS replacement boards?

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
 >> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.

Try this, although it seems some of the products are discontinued/out-of-stock:

https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html

 >> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.

This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood
is put up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.

Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd
Power Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably
run barefoot without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance
and charge manually until I get something worked out.

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Leaf BMS

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
     Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS.
Circuit is very different, and so is the operation. First thing I
noticed when I got leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just
above a certain voltage. Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest
cells, so it's not just a shunt? the circuit shows inductors in series
with all measuring wires to the batteries, both sides of each cell.
These points are then coupled together by capacitors, the whole pack.
   My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any
cells and multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge
inverters on each of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart
from some comments that it is a small surface mount resistor that is the
shunt, and only 7.5 mA. That would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.




On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:

> >> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
>
> Try this, although it seems some of the products are
> discontinued/out-of-stock:
>
> https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
>
> >> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
>
> This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is
> put up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.
>
> Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd
> Power Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run
> barefoot without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and
> charge manually until I get something worked out.
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Leaf BMS

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
George, probably a stupid question, but I’m gathering you’ve already been on mynissanleaf.com? I don’t know if the moderators pull anything like that off immediately, but I look fwd to hearing what others have to say about this...

Sincerely,
Bob Bath

Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54 y.o. vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not cluelessness.


> On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:14 PM, George Tyler via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS. Circuit is very different, and so is the operation. First thing I noticed when I got leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just above a certain voltage. Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest cells, so it's not just a shunt? the circuit shows inductors in series with all measuring wires to the batteries, both sides of each cell. These points are then coupled together by capacitors, the whole pack.
>   My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any cells and multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge inverters on each of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart from some comments that it is a small surface mount resistor that is the shunt, and only 7.5 mA. That would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.
>
>
>
>
>> On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
>> >> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
>>
>> Try this, although it seems some of the products are discontinued/out-of-stock:
>>
>> https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
>>
>> >> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
>>
>> This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is put up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.
>>
>> Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd Power Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run barefoot without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and charge manually until I get something worked out.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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>

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Re: Leaf BMS

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
The < 10mA bypass capability of the Leaf BMS is the reason that it is working ALL THE TIME, as long as there is 12V battery power.
And yes, it *does* keep that whole pack in balance, since good cells have less than a few mA self discharge.
I actually run 2 Leaf BMS’es in my EV truck and they keep both Leaf packs nicely balanced.
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: George Tyler via EV
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:14 PM
To: Mr. Sharkey via EV
Cc: George Tyler
Subject: [EVDL] Leaf BMS

     Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS.
Circuit is very different, and so is the operation. First thing I
noticed when I got leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just
above a certain voltage. Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest
cells, so it's not just a shunt? the circuit shows inductors in series
with all measuring wires to the batteries, both sides of each cell.
These points are then coupled together by capacitors, the whole pack.
   My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any
cells and multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge
inverters on each of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart
from some comments that it is a small surface mount resistor that is the
shunt, and only 7.5 mA. That would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.




On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:

> >> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
>
> Try this, although it seems some of the products are
> discontinued/out-of-stock:
>
> https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
>
> >> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
>
> This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is
> put up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.
>
> Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd
> Power Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run
> barefoot without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and
> charge manually until I get something worked out.
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Leaf BMS

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
This is what I found there, other forums say something similar.
"Shunt resisters are 430 ohm across each set of cells. When shunting
they draw V^2/R power, or roughly 16/430 or 40 mW each. There are 96
sets of cells, so if all but one was active, total power would be about
3.5 watts."
I suspect that the 420 ohm resistor is not a shunt load. Have you seen
the circuit?


On 14-Aug-19 4:22 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:

> George, probably a stupid question, but I’m gathering you’ve already been on mynissanleaf.com? I don’t know if the moderators pull anything like that off immediately, but I look fwd to hearing what others have to say about this...
>
> Sincerely,
> Bob Bath
>
> Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54 y.o. vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not cluelessness.
>
>
>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:14 PM, George Tyler via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>      Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS. Circuit is very different, and so is the operation. First thing I noticed when I got leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just above a certain voltage. Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest cells, so it's not just a shunt? the circuit shows inductors in series with all measuring wires to the batteries, both sides of each cell. These points are then coupled together by capacitors, the whole pack.
>>    My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any cells and multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge inverters on each of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart from some comments that it is a small surface mount resistor that is the shunt, and only 7.5 mA. That would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
>>>>> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
>>> Try this, although it seems some of the products are discontinued/out-of-stock:
>>>
>>> https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
>>>
>>>>> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
>>> This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is put up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.
>>>
>>> Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd Power Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run barefoot without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and charge manually until I get something worked out.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Leaf bms

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
 Cor,

Could you please give details of your current truck setup? Is this the same one that had the ni-cad pack? EV photo album location? Lawrence Rhodes  
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Re: Leaf BMS

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
MyNissanLeaf does have schematics (reverse engineered) of the Leaf BMS and
yes, the 430 Ohm resistors are the bypass resistors.
Cor.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 1:08 AM George Tyler via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is what I found there, other forums say something similar.
> "Shunt resisters are 430 ohm across each set of cells. When shunting
> they draw V^2/R power, or roughly 16/430 or 40 mW each. There are 96
> sets of cells, so if all but one was active, total power would be about
> 3.5 watts."
> I suspect that the 420 ohm resistor is not a shunt load. Have you seen
> the circuit?
>
>
> On 14-Aug-19 4:22 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:
> > George, probably a stupid question, but I’m gathering you’ve already
> been on mynissanleaf.com? I don’t know if the moderators pull anything
> like that off immediately, but I look fwd to hearing what others have to
> say about this...
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Bob Bath
> >
> > Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54
> y.o. vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat
> fingering— not cluelessness.
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 13, 2019, at 9:14 PM, George Tyler via EV <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>      Has anyone had a good look at the operation of the Leaf BMS.
> Circuit is very different, and so is the operation. First thing I noticed
> when I got leafspy was that the BMS works ALL the time, not just above a
> certain voltage. Leafspy also shows it working on the lowest cells, so it's
> not just a shunt? the circuit shows inductors in series with all measuring
> wires to the batteries, both sides of each cell. These points are then
> coupled together by capacitors, the whole pack.
> >>    My thinking is that this could be energy transfer path between any
> cells and multiple at the same time. This count be done via half bridge
> inverters on each of the wires. I have searched, but find nothing, apart
> from some comments that it is a small surface mount resistor that is the
> shunt, and only 7.5 mA. That would actually do nothing for a 60ah battery.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 14-Aug-19 3:06 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
> >>>>> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
> >>> Try this, although it seems some of the products are
> discontinued/out-of-stock:
> >>>
> >>> https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
> >>>
> >>>>> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
> >>> This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood is
> put up and the outdoor chores cease due to the weather.
> >>>
> >>> Another part of the repower project is going to be to rework a Todd
> Power Source to be a lithium-compatible 36v charger. I'll probably run
> barefoot without a BMS in the short term and carefully balance and charge
> manually until I get something worked out.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >>
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