Motor Installation questions

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Motor Installation questions

Seth Rothenberg
I have 2 questions on motor installation  - one is
the same question another EVDLr near me has.

1. I have a motor, bolted to a transmission
(or it was and can be rebolted).   How do people
design new brackets for the engine mounts?

Do you suspend the contraption in the engine bay
and take measurements - I have a piece of
wood that I drilled sitting on the front and rear
center engine mounts.


2. People were discussing machining (plates),
and it sounds like there's a lot of knowledge out
there.   I have two axles 1.10", splined, and I
need them to fit into a 1.0" splined hole.

I ran this past "Dan the CV Man" who seems
to know a whole lot about this stuff, and
I said I want to just file it down to 1" in a lathe,
and assemble it, maybe drill for a pin.
He seemed to think it might work.

My friend who owns the mini lathe thinks
that machining hardened steel is completely
hopeless (with a mini lathe).

I am half tempted to try to use the motor
and transmission to spin these things.
Then I don't have to impose on my busy
friend....and the Kostov motor is definitely
bigger than the one in the lathe.

But the "differential" might be a problem.
Is there a safe way to hold the far axle
when the transmission is sitting on the bench?

Flying Kostov is a scary thought.

Thanks
Seth

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Re: Motor Installation questions

Roland Wiench
Hello Seth,

You can do a test fit with the motor and transmission suspended with the
rear transmission mount position on the rear cross member.

The rear cross member will have a bolt hole slot for moving the transmission
forward and back.  You also want to temporary connect up the drive line to
the transmission output yoke.  While the vehicle is jack up off the floor,
the rear axle drops, and this will be the maximum pull out of the yoke out
of the transmission.

As the vehicle is lower to grade, the differential will move up and will
push in the transmission yoke.  If you did not take these measurements while
the engine was in, then you will have to lower the car to grade to see how
far the transmission yoke will go in.  There should at least be 3/4 to 1
inch clearance when the drive line is push in, or you may bottom out.

Make sure that the motor and transmission output yoke is level in
relationship to the yoke on the differential.  Both must be parallel to each
other, but not inline.  There should always be a drive line angle not less
than 2 degrees in 6 foot length or the needle bearings in the yoke will not
rotate and cause a flat spot.

I modified the transmission rear cross member by shorting it up and bolt it
to heavy steel tabs bolted to the side rails.  This way I can install and
remove the motor from below with a floor jack which I made a steel rubber
line cradle that I cut out of a 10 inch pipe tubing.

Even when the motor bay was all clear out the first time, I install it with
a engine hoist, I had to fight it to get the transmission on top of the rear
cross member and than connected up the shifter afterwards.

Now, I can bolt the transmission to the motor, bolt the cross member to the
transmission, and bolt the shifter to the transmission and left up the whole
works with a floor jack and bolt the unit in place in with 30 minutes or can
make a change with a spare unit in with a hour.

It is easier to remove the motor and transmission this way later on after
you get a lot of other equipment mounted above and in front of it.

After you get the unit in place, you can take reference measurements to see
where best the motor mount will be place on the motor and attachments to the
vehicle frame or cross member.

On my GE-11 motor, I have the standard 350 cu.in. engine mounts bolt
directly to the motor, just like they are to the side of the engine.  These
mounts were position temporary to the side of the motor in a clear area on
the side of the motor and where the bottom mounting pads will set level.

With my Warp 9 motor, I built a 4.75 inch wide clam shell mounted made by
cutting a 10 inch tubing pipe in half.  Cut another inch out of each section
for a space, and welded on a 1-1/4 x 3/16 steel lip flange with two 3/8 bolt
holes for bolting this unit on.

I then welded on a 2 inch wide by 4.75 inch steel bar on both sides that had
two 1/2 inch bolt holes in it, so I can also bolt the engine mount to it.  I
now can install the Warp 9 motor mount in the same place as the GE-11 and a
Warp 11 that is rig up like the GE-11 with bolt holes tap into the side.

I knew from the existing motor mount positions on the GE-11, that I could
specific where these bolt holes need to be on the side of a Warp 11 motor.
It is best to have a motor dealer that sells and repairs these motors, is to
have this done by them, unless you want to de-assemble the motor and drill
and tapped the sides of the motor.

While the motor and transmission is suspended in place with the motor mounts
attach to the motor, then you can start to build you motor mount platform if
it cannot be place on the cross member.

I had to weld on 6 by 6 by 3/8 inch piece of angle steel to the rear side of
the existing cross member.  Reinforce this platform with a gusset plate, so
it will not bend.

Bolt everything with grade 8 bolts and that's it.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Rothenberg" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:20 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Motor Installation questions


> I have 2 questions on motor installation  - one is
> the same question another EVDLr near me has.
>
> 1. I have a motor, bolted to a transmission
> (or it was and can be rebolted).   How do people
> design new brackets for the engine mounts?
>
> Do you suspend the contraption in the engine bay
> and take measurements - I have a piece of
> wood that I drilled sitting on the front and rear
> center engine mounts.
>
>
> 2. People were discussing machining (plates),
> and it sounds like there's a lot of knowledge out
> there.   I have two axles 1.10", splined, and I
> need them to fit into a 1.0" splined hole.
>
> I ran this past "Dan the CV Man" who seems
> to know a whole lot about this stuff, and
> I said I want to just file it down to 1" in a lathe,
> and assemble it, maybe drill for a pin.
> He seemed to think it might work.
>
> My friend who owns the mini lathe thinks
> that machining hardened steel is completely
> hopeless (with a mini lathe).
>
> I am half tempted to try to use the motor
> and transmission to spin these things.
> Then I don't have to impose on my busy
> friend....and the Kostov motor is definitely
> bigger than the one in the lathe.
>
> But the "differential" might be a problem.
> Is there a safe way to hold the far axle
> when the transmission is sitting on the bench?
>
> Flying Kostov is a scary thought.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
> --
> Want an EV grin? Convert your car with EV parts from
> http://www.evsource.com - Check out the EV Album http://evalbum.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: Motor Installation questions

Seth Rothenberg
Roland,
Thanks for your reply.   The first car I am doing is Front Wheel Drive.
So it's a bit different....but I see....NOW it's time to go buy an
engine hoist...

especially since I have someone to flatten the threshold on the shed,
so the hoist can roll in and out.

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Re: Motor Installation questions

Toby B
In reply to this post by Seth Rothenberg
Filing it down is different than trying to take a cut.
In fact, I've gacked up my $49.49 angle grinder onto a toolpost
to make a (totally stupid) grinding lathe- and it worked!
You have to be triple- careful with feeds, but I got to about .005 accuracy.
Not very good surface finish, but that last .005 with the file made it
acceptable.
To take off 0.100 in diameter, you'd have to file off .0500-
take a file, and see if it cuts the splines, just sitting on the bench.
If the file can cut the steel, I'd try it.  You really won't hurt anything
IF you are
careful with the tang on that file!

Toby

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Seth Rothenberg <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>
> 2. People were discussing machining (plates),
> and it sounds like there's a lot of knowledge out
> there.   I have two axles 1.10", splined, and I
> need them to fit into a 1.0" splined hole.
>
> I ran this past "Dan the CV Man" who seems
> to know a whole lot about this stuff, and
> I said I want to just file it down to 1" in a lathe,
> and assemble it, maybe drill for a pin.
> He seemed to think it might work.
>
> My friend who owns the mini lathe thinks
> that machining hardened steel is completely
> hopeless (with a mini lathe).
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
> --

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Re: Motor Installation questions

Tom Parker-12
In reply to this post by Seth Rothenberg
On Tue, 2008-07-08 at 23:20 -0400, Seth Rothenberg wrote:

> 2. People were discussing machining (plates),
> and it sounds like there's a lot of knowledge out
> there.   I have two axles 1.10", splined, and I
> need them to fit into a 1.0" splined hole.

Do the splines have the same number of teeth? If so and you cut the
peaks off your shaft so it fits into the hole, are the valleys deep
enough or will they need cutting too?

I had this done at a machine shop. They used a spark erosion machine to
cut a new spline with a different number of teeth on my gearbox input
shaft. It also looks like they turned it in a lathe after the spark
erosion. You can just see the remains of the old spline in the peaks of
the new one: http://carrott.org/blog/archives/13-Shaft-is-cut.html

This cost NZ$330 and the machinist was most put out that the only
example I had of the spline was inside the motor. He wanted something he
could use to check his work without removing it from his machine. If he
didn't get it right first time he would have to find re-center it.

> I am half tempted to try to use the motor
> and transmission to spin these things.
> Then I don't have to impose on my busy
> friend....and the Kostov motor is definitely
> bigger than the one in the lathe.

The problem with little lathes isn't the motor. The problem is the small
frame isn't stiff enough for the forces involved. I wouldn't expect good
results if you simply you hold a file to an axle flopping around. You'd
have to build a fairly strong support for both your tool and the axle.
Even if you built this home made lathe, you can't deepen the valleys
with it, nor can you change the number of teeth.


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