NOVA: "Car of the Future"

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NOVA: "Car of the Future"

mario-53
Just a reminder of Nova's program - it's tonight


Next on NOVA: "Car of the Future"

http://www.pbs.org/nova/car 

Tuesday, April 22 at 8 p.m.
(Broadcast in high definition where available.
 Check your local listings as dates and times may vary.)

Tom Magliozzi has a problem. The wacky co-host of NPR's Car Talk
needs to replace his beloved 1952 MG roadster. But in today's car
market, where should he turn? Is new technology about to transform
 the way we drive? Tom and his brother Ray hit the road in NOVA's "Car
of the Future" for a lighthearted but shrewd take on America's
four-wheeled future. Join them as they mix their trademark slapstick
 with serious nuts-and-bolts analysis of what it will take to make our
autos more  energy-efficient
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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Rick Beebe
I just finished watching it. I thought it was very well done and covered
the issues fairly evenly.

--Rick

mario wrote:

> Just a reminder of Nova's program - it's tonight
>
>
> Next on NOVA: "Car of the Future"
>
> http://www.pbs.org/nova/car 
>
> Tuesday, April 22 at 8 p.m.
> (Broadcast in high definition where available.
>  Check your local listings as dates and times may vary.)
>
> Tom Magliozzi has a problem. The wacky co-host of NPR's Car Talk
> needs to replace his beloved 1952 MG roadster. But in today's car
> market, where should he turn? Is new technology about to transform
>  the way we drive? Tom and his brother Ray hit the road in NOVA's "Car
> of the Future" for a lighthearted but shrewd take on America's
> four-wheeled future. Join them as they mix their trademark slapstick
>  with serious nuts-and-bolts analysis of what it will take to make our
> autos more  energy-efficient

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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Mark Grasser
Just amazing the comment from GM on the Volt. It won't be produced until the
battery for it comes into existence because the public won't want it the way
it is. (my words, or at least that's what I heard) Why don't they just say
"We don't want to build it"

Mark Grasser
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Rick Beebe
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NOVA: "Car of the Future"

I just finished watching it. I thought it was very well done and covered
the issues fairly evenly.

--Rick

mario wrote:

> Just a reminder of Nova's program - it's tonight
>
>
> Next on NOVA: "Car of the Future"
>
> http://www.pbs.org/nova/car 
>
> Tuesday, April 22 at 8 p.m.
> (Broadcast in high definition where available.
>  Check your local listings as dates and times may vary.)
>
> Tom Magliozzi has a problem. The wacky co-host of NPR's Car Talk
> needs to replace his beloved 1952 MG roadster. But in today's car
> market, where should he turn? Is new technology about to transform
>  the way we drive? Tom and his brother Ray hit the road in NOVA's "Car
> of the Future" for a lighthearted but shrewd take on America's
> four-wheeled future. Join them as they mix their trademark slapstick
>  with serious nuts-and-bolts analysis of what it will take to make our
> autos more  energy-efficient

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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Rick Beebe
Mark Grasser wrote:
> Just amazing the comment from GM on the Volt. It won't be produced until the
> battery for it comes into existence because the public won't want it the way
> it is. (my words, or at least that's what I heard) Why don't they just say
> "We don't want to build it"

I will be a little more generous--that scene was filmed over a year ago
and, since we know they didn't have a battery manufacturer (or even
battery chemistry) lined up it's understandable that they couldn't
commit to any sort of production date. I actually thought their
statement was amazingly honest, especially compared to many of the
wild-eyed claims we hear about alternate energy vehicles.

I was very impressed with the carbon fiber hypercar from the Rocky
Mountain Institute. Now that looks like a fun place to work!

--Rick

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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

jerryd
In reply to this post by mario-53

             Hi Rick and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Rick Beebe <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NOVA: "Car of the Future"
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:00:49 -0400

>Mark Grasser wrote:
>> Just amazing the comment from GM on the Volt. It won't be
>> produced until the battery for it comes into existence
>> because the public won't want it the way it is. (my words
>> , or at least that's what I heard) Why don't they just
>say "We don't want to build it"
>
>I will be a little more generous--that scene was filmed

          I won't be as generous. The Volt if designed right
could easily do it with quality AGM lead batts, especially
if a good BMS was used. They could have solved the
replacement problem every 6 yrs by recycling them, thus the
only cost making replacements inexpensive. And they sold the
NiMH which would have done it at a higher price to Chevon
who stopped production and wouldn't let anyone else use them
over 10 amphrs. And BB600 style nicads could do it too and
last 20+ yrs. There are batts available.
          A GM Ultralite style glider in FG, Kevlar instead
of CF would be perfect.
          And the only thing Li-ion needs is large orders as
A123, Kokam amoung others can do it to drive down price.
          While on Foolcells they said correctly about them
but their several comments saying H2 was the same cost as
gasoline is fiction as it costs much more and not likely to
drop in price as it's an energy hog to make.
          And on the energy needed to make, use H2, an EV
can get 4x's the range/mileage.
          Why Lovin's keeps insisting on using CF instead of
more cost effective fibers along with his not viable H2/fuel
cell to power it shows he's not really serious about them
actually getting built.


>over a year ago  and, since we know they didn't have a
>battery manufacturer (or even  battery chemistry) lined up
>it's understandable that they couldn't  commit to any sort
>of production date. I actually thought their  statement was
>amazingly honest, especially compared to many of the
>wild-eyed claims we hear about alternate energy vehicles.

          I find it neither honest or true.

>
>I was very impressed with the carbon fiber hypercar from
>the Rocky  Mountain Institute. Now that looks like a fun
>place to work!

           But not practical due to cost of the CF and
foolcell/H2. The glider design is great and just how my
Freedom EV is built though I use 1/2 the parts.
           The rest of  the show was fairly good.

                              Jerry Dycus


>
>--Rick
>
>_______________________________________________
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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Pestka, Dennis J
In reply to this post by Rick Beebe
Since Tom was looking to replace an old 1952 MG, I thought it would have
been good to have a short blurb on the history of Electric Vehicles.
A lot of people are unaware that Electric Vehicles were at the forefront
in the dawn of the Automobile age.
Would have helped set the stage for the new ones being proposed now.

Second I thought it was interesting that there was no mention of the
EV1.
I'm sure "someone" had something to do with that omission.

That 52 would make a slick EV conversion with a set of Lithium's in it.
Tom needs to check out the 59 MGA on the EV list.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Beebe [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NOVA: "Car of the Future"

I just finished watching it. I thought it was very well done and covered
the issues fairly evenly.

--Rick

mario wrote:

> Just a reminder of Nova's program - it's tonight
>
>
> Next on NOVA: "Car of the Future"
>
> http://www.pbs.org/nova/car
>
> Tuesday, April 22 at 8 p.m.
> (Broadcast in high definition where available.
>  Check your local listings as dates and times may vary.)
>
> Tom Magliozzi has a problem. The wacky co-host of NPR's Car Talk needs

> to replace his beloved 1952 MG roadster. But in today's car market,
> where should he turn? Is new technology about to transform  the way we

> drive? Tom and his brother Ray hit the road in NOVA's "Car of the
> Future" for a lighthearted but shrewd take on America's four-wheeled
> future. Join them as they mix their trademark slapstick  with serious
> nuts-and-bolts analysis of what it will take to make our autos more  
> energy-efficient



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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

SteveS-5
Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> Second I thought it was interesting that there was no mention of the
> EV1.
> I'm sure "someone" had something to do with that omission.
>  
When the GM person was saying the Volt was basically 'on hold' due to no
viable batteries I was waiting for a comment like:
"What about the EV1, that worked with current batteries?". It seemed odd
they would have a car all prototyped with no target battery pack
identified. They said it would get 40 miles on pure electric, so what
was that based on? I don't know, that part of the conversation seemed
really awkward.
> That 52 would make a slick EV conversion with a set of Lithium's in it.
> Tom needs to check out the 59 MGA on the EV list.
>  
Thinking the same thing.

- SteveS

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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Bob Bath
In reply to this post by Pestka, Dennis J
I'll grant that I tuned in 1/2-way through
(re-installing sheared motor mount after fix), but
"the batteries just aren't ready"
Notsomuch.  How were Honda, GM, and Toyota able to use
deep cycle NiM-H batteries on the EV+, EV-1, and
RAV4EV so marvelously, if the "batteries aren't
ready".

--- "Pestka, Dennis J" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Since Tom was looking to replace an old 1952 MG, I
> thought it would have
> been good to have a short blurb on the history of
> Electric Vehicles.
> A lot of people are unaware that Electric Vehicles
> were at the forefront
> in the dawn of the Automobile age.
> Would have helped set the stage for the new ones
> being proposed now.
>
> Second I thought it was interesting that there was
> no mention of the
> EV1.
> I'm sure "someone" had something to do with that
> omission.
>
> That 52 would make a slick EV conversion with a set
> of Lithium's in it.
> Tom needs to check out the 59 MGA on the EV list.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Beebe [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:11 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] NOVA: "Car of the Future"
>
> I just finished watching it. I thought it was very
> well done and covered
> the issues fairly evenly.
>
> --Rick
>
> mario wrote:
> > Just a reminder of Nova's program - it's tonight
> >
> >
> > Next on NOVA: "Car of the Future"
> >
> > http://www.pbs.org/nova/car
> >
> > Tuesday, April 22 at 8 p.m.
> > (Broadcast in high definition where available.
> >  Check your local listings as dates and times may
> vary.)
> >
> > Tom Magliozzi has a problem. The wacky co-host of
> NPR's Car Talk needs
>
> > to replace his beloved 1952 MG roadster. But in
> today's car market,
> > where should he turn? Is new technology about to
> transform  the way we
>
> > drive? Tom and his brother Ray hit the road in
> NOVA's "Car of the
> > Future" for a lighthearted but shrewd take on
> America's four-wheeled
> > future. Join them as they mix their trademark
> slapstick  with serious
> > nuts-and-bolts analysis of what it will take to
> make our autos more  
> > energy-efficient
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic?  My $23 "CivicWithACord" DVD (57 mins.) shows ins and outs you'll encounter, featuring a sedan; a del Sol, and a hatchback, each running 144V/18 batteries.  It focuses on component/instrumentation/battery placement and other considerations.  For more info,   http://home.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
                          ____
                       __/__|__\__
             =D-------/   - -     \
                      'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?


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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Matt C-2
In reply to this post by Pestka, Dennis J
Pestka, Dennis J wrote:

> Second I thought it was interesting that there was no mention of the
> EV1.
> I'm sure "someone" had something to do with that omission.
>

Well the show was called "Car of the Future" and was focused on cars out
now, or being developed now.
They tended to stay away from any controversy, just told what supporters
and critics have to say about each type of car/fuel type.

Who knew Click and Clack went to MIT? I love car talk, listen to it
occasionally but just figured they were a couple of goofball mechanics.


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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Janet Redhawk
In reply to this post by SteveS-5

--- SteveS said:
" It seemed odd
> they would have a car all prototyped with no target
> battery pack
> identified. "

I think they are waiting for hydrogen - the magic
bullet fuel!  Because if they can hood wink the public
into believing that hydrogen can work then that gives
them breathing room for another 5 to 10 years before
they really have to do something.

I thought it was interesting when they were talking
about having to change the entire petroleum society
and how tough that would be.  I was thinking EV - the
stations are already in place they all have
electricity - no problem, no brainer.

J


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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Jeff Shanab
In reply to this post by mario-53
It seemed to be an "offend no-one" show but I was worried for a moment
that they were gonna go pro hydrogen.
I was a little dissapointed that, if these guys really went to MIT, that
a well to wheels comparison wasn't made, but I think they wanted to keep
a broader audience listening then refer them to the website.

On coments for the volt, remember these were the people they send to the
shows, not generally an engineer or the engineer in touch with the
details of the project. (Marketing engineer :-) )

All in all balanced but toned down, seemed targeted to grade-school level.

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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

TrotFox Greyfoot
In reply to this post by Janet Redhawk
Just replace a fuel tank or two with a bank of underground composite
storage flywheels for dump-charging the A123 packs of tomorrow!  ; ]
I expect that to be a reality some day soonish when there are enough
thirsty fast-charge-enabled EV's on the road.  Charge 'em up
overnight, feed those EV's during the day!

Trot, the gray, fox...

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Janet Redhawk <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>  I think they are waiting for hydrogen - the magic
>  bullet fuel!  Because if they can hood wink the public
>  into believing that hydrogen can work then that gives
>  them breathing room for another 5 to 10 years before
>  they really have to do something.
>
>  I thought it was interesting when they were talking
>  about having to change the entire petroleum society
>  and how tough that would be.  I was thinking EV - the
>  stations are already in place they all have
>  electricity - no problem, no brainer.
>
>
>  J


--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [hidden email] \ third alternative."

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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

SteveS-5
In reply to this post by Janet Redhawk
Yeah, I didn't realize the Volt had a hydrogen fuel component, but
that's what they said.

And it was interesting that there was a lot of time spent talking about
the existing infrastucture and how hard it would be to switch (mostly
with respect to H2). They did mention recharging EVs at home at night
(or at hotels, etc), but there wasn't a direct link made to that being
an infrastructure in place. I thought it interesting in the Iceland
segment that they are pushing the hydrogen fuel system (over the next 40
years). It seems they are well set up to go to a straight electric
system and that could be done in much less time.

It was a very good program overall; I'm just nitpicking...It did make me
even more encouraged to convert to an EV.

- SteveS

Janet Redhawk wrote:

> --- SteveS said:
> " It seemed odd
>  
>> they would have a car all prototyped with no target
>> battery pack
>> identified. "
>>    
>
> I think they are waiting for hydrogen - the magic
> bullet fuel!  Because if they can hood wink the public
> into believing that hydrogen can work then that gives
> them breathing room for another 5 to 10 years before
> they really have to do something.
>
> I thought it was interesting when they were talking
> about having to change the entire petroleum society
> and how tough that would be.  I was thinking EV - the
> stations are already in place they all have
> electricity - no problem, no brainer.
>
> J
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>  

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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Janet Redhawk
In reply to this post by Jeff Shanab

--- Jeff Shanab <[hidden email]> wrote:

>All in all balanced but toned down, seemed targeted
> to grade-school level.


Well the typical American audience has the education
level of 8th grade so that fits perfectly.  Not
typical for a NOVA program however.

J





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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Bob Rice-2
In reply to this post by Janet Redhawk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janet Redhawk" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NOVA: "Car of the Future"


>
> --- SteveS said:
> " It seemed odd
>> they would have a car all prototyped with no target
>> battery pack
>> identified. "
>
> I think they are waiting for hydrogen - the magic
> bullet fuel!  Because if they can hood wink the public
> into believing that hydrogen can work then that gives
> them breathing room for another 5 to 10 years before
> they really have to do something.
>
> I thought it was interesting when they were talking
> about having to change the entire petroleum society
> and how tough that would be.  I was thinking EV - the
> stations are already in place they all have
> electricity - no problem, no brainer.
>
>    BINGO! Janet ,ya got the right idea. As you say, the stations(wall
> outlets) are here, already! The big challange is getting the power out in
> the parking lots for us to charge.Lottsa 120 volters around, some 240 ones
> sure would be nice!

        Seeya

        Bob

>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Harry Houck
In reply to this post by Janet Redhawk
Electricity has too many sources and confounds the spigot oriented profiteers. They won't give up their lucrative monopoly easily. They'll push other spigot fuels before investing in EV or even efficient vehicles.
 
 -HH

>>> On 4/23/2008 at 7:31 AM, Janet Redhawk <[hidden email]> wrote:

--- SteveS said:
" It seemed odd
> they would have a car all prototyped with no target
> battery pack
> identified. "

I think they are waiting for hydrogen - the magic
bullet fuel!  Because if they can hood wink the public
into believing that hydrogen can work then that gives
them breathing room for another 5 to 10 years before
they really have to do something.

I thought it was interesting when they were talking
about having to change the entire petroleum society
and how tough that would be.  I was thinking EV - the
stations are already in place they all have
electricity - no problem, no brainer.

J
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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Dave King
In reply to this post by jerryd
Just to add a comment or two

The batteries GM or Ford want, are not what is available today, they want
something the average driver
can't kill in a few years. It isn't the technical, it is the replacement
warranty cost they are concerned
about. Remember the Pinto and the explodomatic gas tanks in the 70's. Ford
wouldn't recall the cars
as it would have cost about $60 each to fix, the accountants figured it was
cheaper to let them explode
kill the people and payout the claims. New GM diesel trucks have injector
failures that cost about $10K
to fix, this is covered under a hidden warranty but you have to have a
lawyer talk to GM before they
admit it is. That's the mentality that stops them from seriously doing
something. If they think they
can make money and there are few comebacks or future costs they will do it.
If you banned the accountants
and let the engineers get on with it, we'd already have em.

Fuel cells are quite efficient and some can produce electricity at a cost
that is the same as line power.
However the ones we would use are not, and hydrogen cells are just not the
instant fix they are claimed
to be.

Hydrogen has the equivalent cost of about $15 a gallon. And then there is
the problem of distribution
and storage. A commercial fill station costs several million to build. A
plastic gas tank and pump are
pretty cheap in comparison. think of it this way when is the last time you
saw a propane filling station.
That's a pretty easy material to deal with compared to hydrogen.

If you think about it the average driver out there doesn't have a clue about
the car. They get in and
aim it down the road. They just want it to go and go the way they want. Most
of us on this group have
a technical understanding of what is different and would accept a different
driving style in a ev. I
don't think the average person will. I.e. not keeping your foot to the floor
so you don't kill the batteries
or realizing you really don't drive that much and so on. The best example of
this mentality is the
hybrid hummer I saw. First glance I thought might be interesting to see
where they put the batteries
and maybe it was a diesel electric etc. Turned out it was a turbine
generator powering things and probably
burned more fuel than the original, but it sounded cool...

One comment about plugin's is not about them it is about the plug. Most of
the electrical system infrastructure
is at capacity and about 50 years or so old. And they don't seem too anxious
about updating it either.

Ev's are the way of the future but the masses have to be convinced to the
point where the demand
brings the players kicking and screaming into the game.

Dave

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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Randy Eckert
In reply to this post by Harry Houck
wow I'm glad I am on your guys side.


On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Harry Houck <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Electricity has too many sources and confounds the spigot oriented
> profiteers. They won't give up their lucrative monopoly easily. They'll push
> other spigot fuels before investing in EV or even efficient vehicles.
>
>  -HH
>
> >>> On 4/23/2008 at 7:31 AM, Janet Redhawk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> --- SteveS said:
> " It seemed odd
> > they would have a car all prototyped with no target
> > battery pack
> > identified. "
>
> I think they are waiting for hydrogen - the magic
> bullet fuel!  Because if they can hood wink the public
> into believing that hydrogen can work then that gives
> them breathing room for another 5 to 10 years before
> they really have to do something.
>
> I thought it was interesting when they were talking
> about having to change the entire petroleum society
> and how tough that would be.  I was thinking EV - the
> stations are already in place they all have
> electricity - no problem, no brainer.
>
> J
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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Randy Eckert
In reply to this post by Dave King
We have all heard of people freezing in there homes in winter because
heating cost is to much, when people stop spending there money because it
cost to much to drive and get it, or gramma skips her Doc. appointment to
save gas,....things will change.
I remember laughing when I first saw bottles of water for sale at the
quickie mart.
I work at Lowes as the plant guy in the garden center, the cost for delivery
has doubled in the last 3 years, when you tell folks that it will cost them
$65 to have anything brought to them just across the street because they do
not have a truck.... then they keep their money...all of it.
I do not think change is all that far away.
We are just the pointy end of change, pushing through because of some clear
thinking......... so we all hope yes?

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Dave King <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just to add a comment or two
>
> The batteries GM or Ford want, are not what is available today, they want
> something the average driver
> can't kill in a few years. It isn't the technical, it is the replacement
> warranty cost they are concerned
> about. Remember the Pinto and the explodomatic gas tanks in the 70's. Ford
> wouldn't recall the cars
> as it would have cost about $60 each to fix, the accountants figured it was
> cheaper to let them explode
> kill the people and payout the claims. New GM diesel trucks have injector
> failures that cost about $10K
> to fix, this is covered under a hidden warranty but you have to have a
> lawyer talk to GM before they
> admit it is. That's the mentality that stops them from seriously doing
> something. If they think they
> can make money and there are few comebacks or future costs they will do it.
> If you banned the accountants
> and let the engineers get on with it, we'd already have em.
>
> Fuel cells are quite efficient and some can produce electricity at a cost
> that is the same as line power.
> However the ones we would use are not, and hydrogen cells are just not the
> instant fix they are claimed
> to be.
>
> Hydrogen has the equivalent cost of about $15 a gallon. And then there is
> the problem of distribution
> and storage. A commercial fill station costs several million to build. A
> plastic gas tank and pump are
> pretty cheap in comparison. think of it this way when is the last time you
> saw a propane filling station.
> That's a pretty easy material to deal with compared to hydrogen.
>
> If you think about it the average driver out there doesn't have a clue
> about
> the car. They get in and
> aim it down the road. They just want it to go and go the way they want.
> Most
> of us on this group have
> a technical understanding of what is different and would accept a different
> driving style in a ev. I
> don't think the average person will. I.e. not keeping your foot to the
> floor
> so you don't kill the batteries
> or realizing you really don't drive that much and so on. The best example
> of
> this mentality is the
> hybrid hummer I saw. First glance I thought might be interesting to see
> where they put the batteries
> and maybe it was a diesel electric etc. Turned out it was a turbine
> generator powering things and probably
> burned more fuel than the original, but it sounded cool...
>
> One comment about plugin's is not about them it is about the plug. Most of
> the electrical system infrastructure
> is at capacity and about 50 years or so old. And they don't seem too
> anxious
> about updating it either.
>
> Ev's are the way of the future but the masses have to be convinced to the
> point where the demand
> brings the players kicking and screaming into the game.
>
> Dave
>
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Re: NOVA: "Car of the Future"

Janet Redhawk
In reply to this post by Dave King
I just wanted to add, that when they were talking
about the fact that "drivers today WANT big powerful
cars and it will be hard to convience people to change
to EV or the like..."  
That is such a load of .... Madison Avenue has been
"Telling" us what we "WANT" for the last hundred
years.  If they wanted us to buy EV's all it would
take is some advertising and people would do it.

J


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