Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

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Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Andrew Wood-3
Hi

I could do with some advice on my Headway 40160S cells and charging them with a Manzanita PFC20 charger with the Manzanita Mk3 BMS boards.

Ive got one string of 40 Headway 40160S cells which seems to settle at about 133V when fully charged.
I have the 5 BMS boards mounted on a block of aluminium as a heatsink, I dont currently have temp sensors on each individual cell, just the voltage sense wiring connected.

I've experimented charging them in the house with the PFC20 charger (Rudman bus connected) and it seemed to work fine.

Last weekend I put them in the car, and connected up the Zivan DC-DC converter to power all the 12v stuff for testing. (Havent connected the HV stuff for the motor yet)

Everything was working fine and after 2 or 3 days of on off testing the pack voltage had dropped to about 107V so I decided to test out the charging again.

The charger seemed to be working for 15 mins or so showing a current of about 12A from the AC line and I made a point of sitting by it to make sure everything seemed OK.

Suddenly there was a hot/burning smell and the current display dropped to about 2A and the blue timer LED started flashing. Un-nerved by the smell I switched the charger off and begain investigating. Couldnt see anything obvious so I tried switching the charger back on.  The blue timer LED came on flashing straight away but the current display sat at 0.4 amps all the time and none of the BMS green dissipatio LEDs were flashing. AFAIK it wasnt charging. After the 15 minutes was up the timer expiered and I measured the batt voltage which was only about 110V.

I tried some of the 12v testing again, but this time the batteries didnt seem capable of delivering enough current to even run the headlights and wipers!

Ive brought the baattery back into the house and opened it up to see what has happened.  On one of the BMS boards one of the resistors ( the one for Cell 5) has burst and what I think is the corresponding cell (the one with the yellow wire as per Manzanitas instruction manual) seems to have expanded out of its blue jacket.

Obviously Im going to have to replace the BMS board as it appears to be completely dead, so Im not sure if just changing the resistor will be sufficient, and probably replace the cell too but Im at a loss as to what has actually gone wrong to cause it?

This is my first EV so I'd appreciate some insight from those of you experienced with these cells and chargers. I can provide a picture of the resistor and cell if needbe.

Many thanks
Andrew
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Cor van de Water
The charger may be fine, while the cell apparently went
open-circuit. Possibly that cell was run to dead in the
previous days and now it did not take the charge because
it was dead and simply went open - which means that the
difference between the 110V pack and the 133V charge
voltage came across that one BMS circuit, blowing it up...

Note that 107V on 40 cells is only 2.6V which is very close
to "empty". If any cell was slightly lower capacity of SoC
then it may have collapsed to zero volts while you were
discharging the pack so deep.
Does your cell-level BMS have a per-cell low voltage
threshold and alarm that you would notice while you were
doing your testing or would your DC/DC slowly run your
pack dry without warning?

I am guessing here until you can provide more data, but
this seems the most likely cause of events...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Andrew Wood
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 3:36 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EVDL] Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Hi

I could do with some advice on my Headway 40160S cells and charging them with a Manzanita PFC20 charger with the Manzanita Mk3 BMS boards.

Ive got one string of 40 Headway 40160S cells which seems to settle at about 133V when fully charged.
I have the 5 BMS boards mounted on a block of aluminium as a heatsink, I dont currently have temp sensors on each individual cell, just the voltage sense wiring connected.

I've experimented charging them in the house with the PFC20 charger (Rudman bus connected) and it seemed to work fine.

Last weekend I put them in the car, and connected up the Zivan DC-DC converter to power all the 12v stuff for testing. (Havent connected the HV stuff for the motor yet)

Everything was working fine and after 2 or 3 days of on off testing the pack voltage had dropped to about 107V so I decided to test out the charging again.

The charger seemed to be working for 15 mins or so showing a current of about 12A from the AC line and I made a point of sitting by it to make sure everything seemed OK.

Suddenly there was a hot/burning smell and the current display dropped to about 2A and the blue timer LED started flashing. Un-nerved by the smell I switched the charger off and begain investigating. Couldnt see anything obvious so I tried switching the charger back on.  The blue timer LED came on flashing straight away but the current display sat at 0.4 amps all the time and none of the BMS green dissipatio LEDs were flashing. AFAIK it wasnt charging. After the 15 minutes was up the timer expiered and I measured the batt voltage which was only about 110V.

I tried some of the 12v testing again, but this time the batteries didnt seem capable of delivering enough current to even run the headlights and wipers!

Ive brought the baattery back into the house and opened it up to see what has happened.  On one of the BMS boards one of the resistors ( the one for Cell 5) has burst and what I think is the corresponding cell (the one with the yellow wire as per Manzanitas instruction manual) seems to have expanded out of its blue jacket.

Obviously Im going to have to replace the BMS board as it appears to be completely dead, so Im not sure if just changing the resistor will be sufficient, and probably replace the cell too but Im at a loss as to what has actually gone wrong to cause it?

This is my first EV so I'd appreciate some insight from those of you experienced with these cells and chargers. I can provide a picture of the resistor and cell if needbe.

Many thanks
Andrew
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Andrew Wood-3
Hi Mike,

FYI: This is a post from the EV Discussion List that came today. He had
a failure of a Manzanita Micro BMS board. From the sound of it, it's
just like the failures I fixed for another guy. (His failure was caused
by the regulators overheating and/or water getting on them).

Andrew Wood wrote:

> I could do with some advice on my Headway 40160S cells and charging them with a Manzanita PFC20 charger with the Manzanita Mk3 BMS boards.
>
> Ive got one string of 40 Headway 40160S cells which seems to settle at about 133V when fully charged.
> I have the 5 BMS boards mounted on a block of aluminium as a heatsink, I dont currently have temp sensors on each individual cell, just the voltage sense wiring connected.
>
> I've experimented charging them in the house with the PFC20 charger (Rudman bus connected) and it seemed to work fine.
>
> Last weekend I put them in the car, and connected up the Zivan DC-DC converter to power all the 12v stuff for testing. (Havent connected the HV stuff for the motor yet)
>
> Everything was working fine and after 2 or 3 days of on off testing the pack voltage had dropped to about 107V so I decided to test out the charging again.
>
> The charger seemed to be working for 15 mins or so showing a current of about 12A from the AC line and I made a point of sitting by it to make sure everything seemed OK.
>
> Suddenly there was a hot/burning smell and the current display dropped to about 2A and the blue timer LED started flashing. Un-nerved by the smell I switched the charger off and begain investigating. Couldnt see anything obvious so I tried switching the charger back on.  The blue timer LED came on flashing straight away but the current display sat at 0.4 amps all the time and none of the BMS green dissipatio LEDs were flashing. AFAIK it wasnt charging. After the 15 minutes was up the timer expiered and I measured the batt voltage which was only about 110V.
>
> I tried some of the 12v testing again, but this time the batteries didnt seem capable of delivering enough current to even run the headlights and wipers!
>
> Ive brought the baattery back into the house and opened it up to see what has happened.  On one of the BMS boards one of the resistors ( the one for Cell 5) has burst and what I think is the corresponding cell (the one with the yellow wire as per Manzanitas instruction manual) seems to have expanded out of its blue jacket.
>
> Obviously Im going to have to replace the BMS board as it appears to be completely dead, so Im not sure if just changing the resistor will be sufficient, and probably replace the cell too but Im at a loss as to what has actually gone wrong to cause it?
>
> This is my first EV so I'd appreciate some insight from those of you experienced with these cells and chargers. I can provide a picture of the resistor and cell if needbe.

--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons.
        -- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Lee Hart
On 5/27/2012 9:06 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> FYI: This is a post from the EV Discussion List that came today...

Sorry, gang! I had meant that post to go to a friend of mine (Mike), who
is contemplating buying the Manzanita BMS boards. In Mike's case, we are
considering mounting the BMS on a block of aluminum, drilled for a water
line, and liquid cooling them (he has a Zilla which is already water
cooled, so use the same system).

To clarify; I fixed some of these boards for a client. In that case, the
shunts had overheated and burned up some parts. But the boards also
showed evidence of water damage. It wasn't clear if the shunts failed
from water shorting something to falsely turn it on, or if some other
condition (like the charger not shutting off) overheated the shunts.

In Andrew Wood's case, Cor's answer is also a possibility. One cell is
clearly destroyed. If that cell was run dead, its internal resistance
may have gone up. When subsequently charged, its voltage would go high
too soon, and the shunt would have to carry the full charging current,
which could make it fail.

The BMS has a low-cell alarm, and should have warned the driver. Was it
connected and working?

The cell might have gone open completely, which would certainly destroy
the BMS (it doesn't have any fusing to protect against this). But if
that were the case, I'd think the BMS would have failed immediately upon
applying any load, or any charging.
--
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
        -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Andrew Wood-3
In reply to this post by Cor van de Water
There are LEDs on the BMS boards but unfortunately theres no way to 'break out' the signal to an external display or alarm, so you have to look at the boards which isnt really possible where they are.
It is supposedly possible to adjust the BMS settings from their defaults but it requires some Windows only software which isnt very clearly documented and doesnt seem to work with 64 bit Win 7. Why it cant just use a simple RS232 link I dont know :S

I would have expected the default settings to be OK based on the manual.

That BMS board is totally screwed, on closer inspection one of the chips has melted as well.

Ive measured the voltage of each individual cell. Most are at 3.3v but 8 are not. Two (not on the affected BMS board) is at 3.0 & 1.5v  and 7 others (all on the blown BMS board) are at 1.1, 1.3,1.5,1.6,1.8 & 2.8V

Are you saying the BMS cannot handle a charge from virtually flat? 

The data sheet says 2.0v per cell is completely flat, so I was expecting to be able to take them down to 80v.  I didnt really drain them that much so Im still a bit confused as to whats gone wrong. Even if they did drop that far, how are you supposed to then re-charge them?




________________________________
 From: Cor van de Water <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, 27 May 2012, 8:08
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please
 
The charger may be fine, while the cell apparently went
open-circuit. Possibly that cell was run to dead in the
previous days and now it did not take the charge because
it was dead and simply went open - which means that the
difference between the 110V pack and the 133V charge
voltage came across that one BMS circuit, blowing it up...

Note that 107V on 40 cells is only 2.6V which is very close
to "empty". If any cell was slightly lower capacity of SoC
then it may have collapsed to zero volts while you were
discharging the pack so deep.
Does your cell-level BMS have a per-cell low voltage
threshold and alarm that you would notice while you were
doing your testing or would your DC/DC slowly run your
pack dry without warning?

I am guessing here until you can provide more data, but
this seems the most likely cause of events...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Andrew Wood
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 3:36 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EVDL] Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Hi

I could do with some advice on my Headway 40160S cells and charging them with a Manzanita PFC20 charger with the Manzanita Mk3 BMS boards.

Ive got one string of 40 Headway 40160S cells which seems to settle at about 133V when fully charged.
I have the 5 BMS boards mounted on a block of aluminium as a heatsink, I dont currently have temp sensors on each individual cell, just the voltage sense wiring connected.

I've experimented charging them in the house with the PFC20 charger (Rudman bus connected) and it seemed to work fine.

Last weekend I put them in the car, and connected up the Zivan DC-DC converter to power all the 12v stuff for testing. (Havent connected the HV stuff for the motor yet)

Everything was working fine and after 2 or 3 days of on off testing the pack voltage had dropped to about 107V so I decided to test out the charging again.

The charger seemed to be working for 15 mins or so showing a current of about 12A from the AC line and I made a point of sitting by it to make sure everything seemed OK.

Suddenly there was a hot/burning smell and the current display dropped to about 2A and the blue timer LED started flashing. Un-nerved by the smell I switched the charger off and begain investigating. Couldnt see anything obvious so I tried switching the charger back on.  The blue timer LED came on flashing straight away but the current display sat at 0.4 amps all the time and none of the BMS green dissipatio LEDs were flashing. AFAIK it wasnt charging. After the 15 minutes was up the timer expiered and I measured the batt voltage which was only about 110V.

I tried some of the 12v testing again, but this time the batteries didnt seem capable of delivering enough current to even run the headlights and wipers!

Ive brought the baattery back into the house and opened it up to see what has happened.  On one of the BMS boards one of the resistors ( the one for Cell 5) has burst and what I think is the corresponding cell (the one with the yellow wire as per Manzanitas instruction manual) seems to have expanded out of its blue jacket.

Obviously Im going to have to replace the BMS board as it appears to be completely dead, so Im not sure if just changing the resistor will be sufficient, and probably replace the cell too but Im at a loss as to what has actually gone wrong to cause it?

This is my first EV so I'd appreciate some insight from those of you experienced with these cells and chargers. I can provide a picture of the resistor and cell if needbe.

Many thanks
Andrew
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Lee Hart
On 5/27/2012 2:40 PM, Andrew Wood wrote:
> There are LEDs on the BMS boards but unfortunately there's no way to
> 'break out' the signal to an external display or alarm

There are two "warning" outputs that are supposed to be wired to dash
warning lights, and to tell your charger and controller to cut back or
shut down if any cells go overvoltage, undervoltage, or overtemperature.
If these weren't hooked up, I can see how you could destroy cells and
the BMS board.

> It is supposedly possible to adjust the BMS settings from their
> defaults but it requires some Windows only software which isnt very
> clearly documented and doesnt seem to work with 64 bit Win 7. Why it
> can't just use a simple RS232 link I dont know.

Yes, this can be a problem. Most EV products come from tiny companies.
They don't have the resources to develop a wide range of interfaces for
many different systems. So each picks their own favorite way to do
things, and hopes it will satisfy "most" of their customers. One likes
USB, so everything they make uses it. Another likes CAN bus, so that's
what they use. RS-232 is old and out of fashion; so it is not supported.

Then there's the software issue. It's hard to write good software, and
no one wants to spend the time or money. So things get put together that
work "well enough" to get the product out the door. The small company
uses (say) Windows XP, so that's all their software supports.

Nothing can talk to anything else, unless the buyer is technically savvy
enough to build his own "bridges" and find work-arounds.


> That BMS board is totally screwed, on closer inspection one of the
> chips has melted as well.

You can ask Manzanita if they can fix it; it might be cheaper than a new
board. If not, I'd be willing to take a look at it. I design BMS
systems, and like to reverse-engineer them to see what they're doing
right, and doing wrong. I have fixed Manzanita boards before; it might
be repairable.

> I've measured the voltage of each individual cell... 1.5v, 1.1, 1.3,
> 1.5, 1.6, 1.8 & 2.8V

Sadly, these cells are at best seriously damaged, and at worst
destroyed. :-(

> Are you saying the BMS cannot handle a charge from virtually flat?

Well, you do not *want* to charge a dead lithium cell. This is how you
cause fires! If you want to attempt to charge them, get them out of the
car first!

This BMS is powered by the cells themselves. If all the cells in this
group are this dead, there's also not enough power for the BMS to work.

> Even if they did drop that far, how are you supposed to then
> re-charge them?

Unfortunately, you're not. The cells under 2v at no load are probably
destroyed. If you want to try to salvage at least some capacity out of
them, remove them from the car, and put each cell all by itself on a
bench power supply set for about 3.6v at 1 amp max. See if their voltage
will come up.

There are two likely failure modes. One is shorted; the cell voltage
won't come up to normal, no matter how long you wait. The cell would
just heat up (slowly, due to the 1 amp current limit), the case will try
to swell up, and it would eventually vent or catch fire.

The other failure mode is excessive internal resistance. The voltage
will go too high if you attempt to charge it (thus the 3.6v power supply
limit). If you limit the voltage, it may charge and have some amphour
capacity, but the high internal resistance makes unsuitable for EV use;
it's only good for low current applications. Running high current in a
cell damaged like this is also likely to cause overheating, venting, and
may start a fire.

> The data sheet says 2.0v per cell is completely flat, so I was
> expecting to be able to take them down to 80v. I didn't really drain
> them that much so I'm still a bit confused as to what's gone wrong.

The problem is, all cells are not identical. Some cells are weaker, and
will go dead first. When a cell goes dead, the total pack voltage only
falls by 3v. If the rest are still OK, the total pack voltage still
looks OK. A total pack voltage of 80v does *not* mean everything is
fine! A 40-cell pack at 80v could have 32 cells at 2.5v and 8 at 0v!

The BMS is supposed to check every cell voltage, and warn you when the
*first* one falls to 2.5v or less, so you can quit driving.

Consider adding my Batt-Bridge (see www.sunrise-ev.com). It is a very
simple and inexpensive "idiot light" that warns you that some cell in
the pack has just died. It doesn't replace a BMS, but does give you a
warning like the "check engine" light on a normal car that "something
screwy is going on".

--
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?
        -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Andrew Wood-3
On 28/05/12 19:23, Lee Hart wrote:
> There are two "warning" outputs that are supposed to be wired to dash
> warning lights, and to tell your charger and controller to cut back or
> shut down if any cells go overvoltage, undervoltage, or
> overtemperature. If these weren't hooked up, I can see how you could
> destroy cells and the BMS board.
I cant find any reference to this in the manual or see anything on the
board to allow this. The only thing I can find is that wire 2 of the
Redman bus is pulled high (+5v) to signal an overvoltage condition &
wire 3 is pulled low to indicate an undervoltage.

Theres a connector for the voltage sense wiring from each cell, a
connector for temp sense wiring for each cell, and a 2 pin supply for
driving an external fan.

Apart from the Rudman bus RJ jacks the only other connectors are 6 pins
which it says are only used for programming the microcontroller at the
factory.

I suppose I could interface to those 2 wires of the Rudman bus but I
dont see that the unit is designed for driving a dash lamp directly.

Thanks for the advice so far. I'll try emailing Manzanita and see what
they suggest then report back

Regards
Andrew

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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Mike Willmon
If you want to have the alarm indications to bring out to the dash board
you have to buy the optional Regulator Relay Output Board (RROB)
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=55&category_id=40




On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Andrew Wood <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On 28/05/12 19:23, Lee Hart wrote:
> > There are two "warning" outputs that are supposed to be wired to dash
> > warning lights, and to tell your charger and controller to cut back or
> > shut down if any cells go overvoltage, undervoltage, or
> > overtemperature. If these weren't hooked up, I can see how you could
> > destroy cells and the BMS board.
> I cant find any reference to this in the manual or see anything on the
> board to allow this. The only thing I can find is that wire 2 of the
> Redman bus is pulled high (+5v) to signal an overvoltage condition &
> wire 3 is pulled low to indicate an undervoltage.
>
> Theres a connector for the voltage sense wiring from each cell, a
> connector for temp sense wiring for each cell, and a 2 pin supply for
> driving an external fan.
>
> Apart from the Rudman bus RJ jacks the only other connectors are 6 pins
> which it says are only used for programming the microcontroller at the
> factory.
>
> I suppose I could interface to those 2 wires of the Rudman bus but I
> dont see that the unit is designed for driving a dash lamp directly.
>
> Thanks for the advice so far. I'll try emailing Manzanita and see what
> they suggest then report back
>
> Regards
> Andrew
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Lee Hart
On 6/4/2012 4:40 PM, Mike Willmon wrote:
> If you want to have the alarm indications to bring out to the dash board
> you have to buy the optional Regulator Relay Output Board (RROB)
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=55&category_id=40

Yes, that's it! Thank you, Mike. Mike Shoop was here just last weekend
with a Manzanita BMS board and RROB box to play with. It appears that
the BMS board has the high/low voltage signals on the Regbus connector,
and the RROB box has the relays to provide the user with a higher power
isolated output for indicator lights or charger/controller limiting.

Hopefully, Rich Rudman is monitoring the list, and can provide further
information if we have it wrong.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons.
        -- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Elithion
In reply to this post by Lee Hart
Lee Hart wrote
Most EV products come from tiny companies.
They don't have the resources to develop a wide range of interfaces for
many different systems. So each picks their own favorite way to do
things, and hopes it will satisfy "most" of their customers. One likes
USB, so everything they make uses it. Another likes CAN bus, so that's
what they use. RS-232 is old and out of fashion; so it is not supported.
Well, the Lithiumate BMS family does have a bunch of interface options:
- Windows: GUI application (both Pro and Lite) plus menu driven interface
- Linux: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
- Apple OSX: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
- iPad, iPhone: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
- Android: Torque interface (Pro only, almost ready)

http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/gui.php

The Lithiumate Pro has RS232 (we ship it with a RS232 to USB dongle) and CAN; the Lithiumate Lite has USB.
Also, we're adding Bluetooth to the Lite for wireless communication to a smart phone.

Did we miss anything?
Davide Andrea
Elithion
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Lee Hart
On 6/5/2012 10:45 AM, Elithion wrote:

> Well, the Lithiumate BMS family does have a bunch of interface options:
> - Windows: GUI application (both Pro and Lite) plus menu driven interface
> - Linux: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
> - Apple OSX: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
> - iPad, iPhone: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
> - Android: Torque interface (Pro only, almost ready)
>
> http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/gui.php
>
> The Lithiumate Pro has RS232 (we ship it with a RS232 to USB dongle) and
> CAN; the Lithiumate Lite has USB.
> Also, we're adding Bluetooth to the Lite for wireless communication to a
> smart phone.
>
> Did we miss anything?

No, I think you have covered the common ones. That's very good!

--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons.
        -- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Mike Willmon
In reply to this post by Elithion
Hi Davide, now if you could incorporate an ethernet SNMP stack on the
boards you could cover the telecom/ups  market ;-)

I was trying to talk Bruce and Rich into incorporating that on their
Boards.  Its a big market to consider.  You won't get there without it.

Mike

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Elithion <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Lee Hart wrote
> >
> > Most EV products come from tiny companies.
> > They don't have the resources to develop a wide range of interfaces for
> > many different systems. So each picks their own favorite way to do
> > things, and hopes it will satisfy "most" of their customers. One likes
> > USB, so everything they make uses it. Another likes CAN bus, so that's
> > what they use. RS-232 is old and out of fashion; so it is not supported.
> >
>
> Well, the Lithiumate BMS family does have a bunch of interface options:
> - Windows: GUI application (both Pro and Lite) plus menu driven interface
> - Linux: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
> - Apple OSX: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
> - iPad, iPhone: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
> - Android: Torque interface (Pro only, almost ready)
>
> http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/gui.php
>
> The Lithiumate Pro has RS232 (we ship it with a RS232 to USB dongle) and
> CAN; the Lithiumate Lite has USB.
> Also, we're adding Bluetooth to the Lite for wireless communication to a
> smart phone.
>
> Did we miss anything?
>
>
> -----
> Davide Andrea
> Elithion
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Need-help-with-Headway-cells-Manzanita-BMS-charger-please-tp4655167p4655406.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Elithion
Mike Willmon wrote
if you could incorporate an ethernet SNMP stack on the
boards you could cover the telecom/ups  market
I think that might be off topic for this group.
(But, to answer your question, yes, that's something covered  by our Lithiumotive BMS and Lithiumod battery module http://lithiumod.com/ )
Davide Andrea
Elithion
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Mike Willmon
Nice, I'll have to go take a look.
Thanks
Mike

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Elithion <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Mike Willmon wrote
> >
> > if you could incorporate an ethernet SNMP stack on the
> > boards you could cover the telecom/ups  market
> >
>
> I think that might be off topic for this group.
> (But, to answer your question, yes, that's something covered  by our
> Lithiumotive BMS and Lithiumod battery module http://lithiumod.com/ )
>
>
> -----
> Davide Andrea
> Elithion
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Need-help-with-Headway-cells-Manzanita-BMS-charger-please-tp4655167p4655498.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> |
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Andrew Wood-3
In reply to this post by Mike Willmon
Great thanks. Not seen that. They seem to have a lot more accessories
avialble now than when I bought my boards a couple of years back.

I'll replace the cells which are < 2v and the burnt out BMS board and
add one of those relay boards to make sure I dont discharge the cells
too much.

Only slight problem is I have 5 spare cells, there are 6 which need
replacing and I remember Manzanita sending out an email a few months
back saying the 16Ah cells were being discontinued by Headway and
replaced with 15Ah ones.


  On 04/06/12 22:40, Mike Willmon wrote:

> If you want to have the alarm indications to bring out to the dash board
> you have to buy the optional Regulator Relay Output Board (RROB)
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=55&category_id=40
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Andrew Wood<[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> On 28/05/12 19:23, Lee Hart wrote:
>>> There are two "warning" outputs that are supposed to be wired to dash
>>> warning lights, and to tell your charger and controller to cut back or
>>> shut down if any cells go overvoltage, undervoltage, or
>>> overtemperature. If these weren't hooked up, I can see how you could
>>> destroy cells and the BMS board.
>> I cant find any reference to this in the manual or see anything on the
>> board to allow this. The only thing I can find is that wire 2 of the
>> Redman bus is pulled high (+5v) to signal an overvoltage condition&
>> wire 3 is pulled low to indicate an undervoltage.
>>
>> Theres a connector for the voltage sense wiring from each cell, a
>> connector for temp sense wiring for each cell, and a 2 pin supply for
>> driving an external fan.
>>
>> Apart from the Rudman bus RJ jacks the only other connectors are 6 pins
>> which it says are only used for programming the microcontroller at the
>> factory.
>>
>> I suppose I could interface to those 2 wires of the Rudman bus but I
>> dont see that the unit is designed for driving a dash lamp directly.
>>
>> Thanks for the advice so far. I'll try emailing Manzanita and see what
>> they suggest then report back
>>
>> Regards
>> Andrew
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Elithion
In reply to this post by Elithion
Elithion wrote
Lee Hart wrote
Most EV products come from tiny companies.
They don't have the resources to develop a wide range of interfaces for
many different systems.
Well, the Lithiumate BMS family does have a bunch of interface options:
- Windows: GUI application (both Pro and Lite) plus menu driven interface
- Linux: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
- Apple OSX: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
- iPad, iPhone: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
- Android: Torque interface (Pro only, almost ready)
OK, the Torque interface (wireless connection with Android phones) is now ready.

Here is a table showing the full gamut of User Interfaces available for Elithion BMSs:
http://elithion.com/bms_user_interface.php
Davide Andrea
Elithion
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

martinwinlow
Hi Davide,

You have been busy.

Is there any reason why one could not use a wireless USB connection between the Lithiumate and iPad/iPhone?  I'm sure I read about one somewhere...

Regards, Martin.


On 20 Jun 2012, at 02:10, Elithion wrote:

>
> Elithion wrote
>>
>>
>> Lee Hart wrote
>>>
>>> Most EV products come from tiny companies.
>>> They don't have the resources to develop a wide range of interfaces for
>>> many different systems.
>>>
>>
>> Well, the Lithiumate BMS family does have a bunch of interface options:
>> - Windows: GUI application (both Pro and Lite) plus menu driven interface
>> - Linux: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
>> - Apple OSX: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
>> - iPad, iPhone: menu driven interface (both Pro and Lite)
>> - Android: Torque interface (Pro only, almost ready)
>>
>
> OK, the Torque interface (wireless connection with Android phones) is now
> ready.
>
> Here is a table showing the full gamut of User Interfaces available for
> Elithion BMSs:
> http://elithion.com/bms_user_interface.php
>
>
> -----
> Davide Andrea
> Elithion


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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Elithion
martinwinlow wrote
Is there any reason why one could not use a wireless USB connection between the Lithiumate and iPad/iPhone?
It is wireless. http://lithiumate.elithion.com/php/install_serialcomm.php#iPhone_/_iPad

But it's not graphic (as the Android is): it's menu driven.
Davide Andrea
Elithion
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Re: Need help with Headway cells & Manzanita BMS/charger please

Lee Hart
In reply to this post by Elithion
On 6/19/2012 8:10 PM, Elithion wrote:
> OK, the Torque interface (wireless connection with Android phones) is now
> ready. Here is a table showing the full gamut of User Interfaces available for
> Elithion BMSs: http://elithion.com/bms_user_interface.php

Wow; that's great to see! I like having a good number of interfaces.
There will always be situations where the one that the vendor favors
isn't suitable for the customer.

--
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work. -- Thomas A. Edison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart at earthlink.net

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