Nope, was Re: Another Lithium source ?

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Nope, was Re: Another Lithium source ?

cowtown
<<<< I searched the archive for Electrovaya but found nothing
noone ever heard of them?
http://www.electrovaya.com/innovation/zev_tech.html#EV

I heard about them in october last year. I think I contacted them but
either it was too early or they didn't respond
They claim rather impressive energy densities iirc. something like
250Wh/kg and 400Wh/L

Dan >>>>

Really old news needs a search in an old archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=Electrovaya%20&l=ev@... -

There's no search engine in the Crest archives, here's an entry from 2001:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/ev/200111/msg00550.html

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Re: Nope, was Re: Another Lithium source ?

Marty Hewes
Something you want to keep in mind looking through Global sources or even
going to trade fairs, often they are advertising a concept just to do market
research.  They may not even have a working prototype.  They come up with an
idea, maybe a dummy model, pull some specs out of thin air, and pretend it
will be available shortly.  If the specs seem improbable, it's usually
because the product doesn't even exist.  If some huge company starts talking
contracts, then they develop the product, or try at least.  The finished
product will often show up 6 months later and not meet the original pipe
dream specs.  If a buyer comes along that wants to purchase a quantity too
small to fund the development, you won't hear back from them and it never
happens.

You'd be surprised how many traders are out there with no product trying to
land a contract with Walmart or GM, figuring they'll find a supplier in
Mainland China after they bag a customer large enough to make them rich.
Taiwan and Hong Kong are full of these guys, and they've got the act down
pretty well.  Many of them figure they'll get one shot at it, and they
couldn't care less if the product they deliver is any good.  We've all seen
the results.  Buying a product without a QC guy of your own over there (one
that's immune to payoffs) is always a crap shoot.  I'm afraid standing
behind a product is a somewhat foreign concept over there.  Often, once the
money changes hands, it's your problem.  Afterall, up until recently, there
was no free market in China.  The Chinese got whatever the government
produced, or nothing.  Choice and customers demanding quality are not
concepts ingrained in their society.  We saw the same problem with crap
coming out of the ex USSR when the wall came down.  A Russian friend of
mine, who had worked in factories over there, told me that the good workers
built military hardware, the drunks and losers were put to work making
consumer goods, and very little effort was put into QC on that stuff.  The
govermnent was mostly just trying to keep them busy.

Many companies that buy from China have a rep over there to watch production
and do quality control before paying for anything.  Jukka is in exactly the
right position to do us a lot of good, and from previous experience in an
unrelated joint development project, I have great respect for the Finnish
work ethic and values.  How else do you explain Nokia kicking Motorola's
butt :).  The previous experience with ThunderSky was not unusual for a
shipment of goods going out without a representative of the customer on
premises doing QC.

For those of you that have worked in development, some of these asians do it
like our marketing guys do it, only with a little more BS, a little less
reality, and very short term goals and objectives.

Marty


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Re: Nope, was Re: Another Lithium source ?

Dan Frederiksen-2
Electrovaya doesn't appear to be chinese though and I didn't find them
on global sources. they seem to have products and even claim their
batteries are used in the nasa EVA space suits. but sell their
products... why would they

Dan

Marty Hewes wrote:

> Something you want to keep in mind looking through Global sources or even
> going to trade fairs, often they are advertising a concept just to do market
> research.  They may not even have a working prototype.  They come up with an
> idea, maybe a dummy model, pull some specs out of thin air, and pretend it
> will be available shortly.  If the specs seem improbable, it's usually
> because the product doesn't even exist.  If some huge company starts talking
> contracts, then they develop the product, or try at least.  The finished
> product will often show up 6 months later and not meet the original pipe
> dream specs.  If a buyer comes along that wants to purchase a quantity too
> small to fund the development, you won't hear back from them and it never
> happens.
>
> You'd be surprised how many traders are out there with no product trying to
> land a contract with Walmart or GM, figuring they'll find a supplier in
> Mainland China after they bag a customer large enough to make them rich.
> Taiwan and Hong Kong are full of these guys, and they've got the act down
> pretty well.  Many of them figure they'll get one shot at it, and they
> couldn't care less if the product they deliver is any good.  We've all seen
> the results.  Buying a product without a QC guy of your own over there (one
> that's immune to payoffs) is always a crap shoot.  I'm afraid standing
> behind a product is a somewhat foreign concept over there.  Often, once the
> money changes hands, it's your problem.  Afterall, up until recently, there
> was no free market in China.  The Chinese got whatever the government
> produced, or nothing.  Choice and customers demanding quality are not
> concepts ingrained in their society.  We saw the same problem with crap
> coming out of the ex USSR when the wall came down.  A Russian friend of
> mine, who had worked in factories over there, told me that the good workers
> built military hardware, the drunks and losers were put to work making
> consumer goods, and very little effort was put into QC on that stuff.  The
> govermnent was mostly just trying to keep them busy.
>
> Many companies that buy from China have a rep over there to watch production
> and do quality control before paying for anything.  Jukka is in exactly the
> right position to do us a lot of good, and from previous experience in an
> unrelated joint development project, I have great respect for the Finnish
> work ethic and values.  How else do you explain Nokia kicking Motorola's
> butt :).  The previous experience with ThunderSky was not unusual for a
> shipment of goods going out without a representative of the customer on
> premises doing QC.
>
> For those of you that have worked in development, some of these asians do it
> like our marketing guys do it, only with a little more BS, a little less
> reality, and very short term goals and objectives.
>
> Marty
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>  

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Re: Nope, was Re: Another Lithium source ?

Marty Hewes
Yeah, I was just speaking in general terms.  Just because you find something
on the net doesn't mean it really exists.  And if it does exist, that
doesn't mean they are anxious to deal with a market like ours where most
vehicles are a one off (so requirements vary) and sales are relatively low.
I import clocks 5,000 at a time, and most of the Global Sources advertisers
still don't respond to my Emails.  They are dreaming about landing an
exclusive with Walmart.

Marty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Nope, was Re: Another Lithium source ?


> Electrovaya doesn't appear to be chinese though and I didn't find them
> on global sources. they seem to have products and even claim their
> batteries are used in the nasa EVA space suits. but sell their
> products... why would they
>
> Dan


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