Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

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Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

brucedp

Oslo has more EVs per capita than any other capital

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-electric-cars-norway.html
[images] Electric cars take off in Norway
May 10, 2011 by Pierre-Henry Deshayes

[image
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-electric-cars-norway.html#
{A humble-bee} flies by as an electric car is charged in Oslo]

Norway may well be a major oil exporter, but it's fast becoming a
paragon of clean energy as Norwegians go crazy for electric cars.]

They speed past gas guzzlers in traffic, ignore congestion charges and
get city centre parking for free. In a country whose wealth is fuelled
by oil, Oslo has become the world capital of the electric car.

"There are more electric cars per capita here than in any other
capital of the world," said Rune Haaland, the head of the electric car
users association Norstart [ http://elbil.no ], standing in a city
centre car park forbidden to other car users.

Almost 4,000 of the small, clean and silent vehicles are on the roads
of Norway, although they are found mainly in the cities, and the
number is climbing as new models come onto the market.

From the tiny, locally-made Buddy, to the sporty Tesla, which can
accelerate from zero to 100 kilometres (62 miles) in less than four
seconds, all sorts of electric cars have taken to the roads of the
Norwegian capital.

Norway may be one of the world's top fossil fuel exporters, but it has
set ambitious climate policy objectives, aiming to reduce its carbon
dioxide emissions by 30 percent by 2020.

"The electric car is a very important tool for that, knowing that 40
percent of our emissions come from the transport sector and 60 percent
of those come from road transport," Transport Minister Magnhild
Meltveit Kleppa told AFP.

According to some estimates, the country's 3,891 electric cars allow
it to save over 6,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide per year.

To persuade drivers to switch to electric cars, Norway has introduced
a string of incentive measures.

Electric cars can use bus lanes and thus bypass traffic jams, they
don't have to shell out congestion charges and can park for free on
municipal car parks.

New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
"It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.

"And you don't get drowned in day-to-day spending: it's a car that is
expensive to buy but cheap to use," he said.

Nonlinear White Paper - Use nonlinear analysis to simulate real-world
behavior. Find out more. - www.nenastran.com/nonlinear/

[image
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-electric-cars-norway.html#
An electric car is charged at a stand in Oslo]

To persuade drivers to switch to electric cars, Norway has introduced
a string of incentive measures. Electric cars can use bus lanes and
thus bypass traffic jams, they don't have to shell out congestion
charges and can park for free on municipal car parks.

Charging an electric car's batteries at home costs about two euros
($2.90). Norwegian petrol prices are among the highest in Europe.

With growing demand, carmakers are rushing to put out new models.
And consumers are responding with just as much enthusiasm: in the
first quarter this year, an electric car, Mitsubishi's i-MiEV, topped
small model car sales in Norway, ahead of all time favorites.

"We were planning to sell 400 units (cars) in Norway this year, and we
are already at 700. We think we will ultimately reach 1,000," the head
of Mitsubishi Norway Bernt Jessen said.

Despite technological advances, distance remains a problem for
electric vehicles, however, with cars only able to go for around
150 kilometres before needing to be recharged.

And with Norway's cold winters slashing battery efficiency, optimal
performance is hard to achieve.

To get around this obstacle, Norway has decided to put in place a
national network of charging stands across the country allowing
drivers to "fill up" their cars in about 20 minutes, just long enough
to enjoy a roadside cup of coffee, compared to the seven or eight
hours normally needed.

The mountain cottage, sacrosanct for Norwegians, could soon be only a
few kilowatts away.          (c) 2011 AFP  [© PhysOrg.com™ 2003-2011]





http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EV-Future-Depends-on-U-S-China-Bond-td3511356.html

{brucedp.150m.com}
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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Kirill Spitzer
Nothing to say, but...WOW.
In Germany there is 1 (spell: ONE) incentive: You dont have to pay car taxes for 5 years, after that, they are incredible low!

But quick charge stations? Massive rebates from government? No way! :-/



-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Wed, 11 May 2011 02:20:31 -0700 (PDT)
> Von: brucedp <[hidden email]>
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

>
> Oslo has more EVs per capita than any other capital
>
> http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-electric-cars-norway.html
> [images] Electric cars take off in Norway
> May 10, 2011 by Pierre-Henry Deshayes
>
> [image
> http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-electric-cars-norway.html#
> {A humble-bee} flies by as an electric car is charged in Oslo]
>
> Norway may well be a major oil exporter, but it's fast becoming a
> paragon of clean energy as Norwegians go crazy for electric cars.]
>
> They speed past gas guzzlers in traffic, ignore congestion charges and
> get city centre parking for free. In a country whose wealth is fuelled
> by oil, Oslo has become the world capital of the electric car.
>
> "There are more electric cars per capita here than in any other
> capital of the world," said Rune Haaland, the head of the electric car
> users association Norstart [ http://elbil.no ], standing in a city
> centre car park forbidden to other car users.
>
> Almost 4,000 of the small, clean and silent vehicles are on the roads
> of Norway, although they are found mainly in the cities, and the
> number is climbing as new models come onto the market.
>
> From the tiny, locally-made Buddy, to the sporty Tesla, which can
> accelerate from zero to 100 kilometres (62 miles) in less than four
> seconds, all sorts of electric cars have taken to the roads of the
> Norwegian capital.
>
> Norway may be one of the world's top fossil fuel exporters, but it has
> set ambitious climate policy objectives, aiming to reduce its carbon
> dioxide emissions by 30 percent by 2020.
>
> "The electric car is a very important tool for that, knowing that 40
> percent of our emissions come from the transport sector and 60 percent
> of those come from road transport," Transport Minister Magnhild
> Meltveit Kleppa told AFP.
>
> According to some estimates, the country's 3,891 electric cars allow
> it to save over 6,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide per year.
>
> To persuade drivers to switch to electric cars, Norway has introduced
> a string of incentive measures.
>
> Electric cars can use bus lanes and thus bypass traffic jams, they
> don't have to shell out congestion charges and can park for free on
> municipal car parks.
>
> New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
> "It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
> escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.
>
> "And you don't get drowned in day-to-day spending: it's a car that is
> expensive to buy but cheap to use," he said.
>
> Nonlinear White Paper - Use nonlinear analysis to simulate real-world
> behavior. Find out more. - www.nenastran.com/nonlinear/
>
> [image
> http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-electric-cars-norway.html#
> An electric car is charged at a stand in Oslo]
>
> To persuade drivers to switch to electric cars, Norway has introduced
> a string of incentive measures. Electric cars can use bus lanes and
> thus bypass traffic jams, they don't have to shell out congestion
> charges and can park for free on municipal car parks.
>
> Charging an electric car's batteries at home costs about two euros
> ($2.90). Norwegian petrol prices are among the highest in Europe.
>
> With growing demand, carmakers are rushing to put out new models.
> And consumers are responding with just as much enthusiasm: in the
> first quarter this year, an electric car, Mitsubishi's i-MiEV, topped
> small model car sales in Norway, ahead of all time favorites.
>
> "We were planning to sell 400 units (cars) in Norway this year, and we
> are already at 700. We think we will ultimately reach 1,000," the head
> of Mitsubishi Norway Bernt Jessen said.
>
> Despite technological advances, distance remains a problem for
> electric vehicles, however, with cars only able to go for around
> 150 kilometres before needing to be recharged.
>
> And with Norway's cold winters slashing battery efficiency, optimal
> performance is hard to achieve.
>
> To get around this obstacle, Norway has decided to put in place a
> national network of charging stands across the country allowing
> drivers to "fill up" their cars in about 20 minutes, just long enough
> to enjoy a roadside cup of coffee, compared to the seven or eight
> hours normally needed.
>
> The mountain cottage, sacrosanct for Norwegians, could soon be only a
> few kilowatts away.          (c) 2011 AFP  [© PhysOrg.com™ 2003-2011]
>
>
>
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EV-Future-Depends-on-U-S-China-Bond-td3511356.html
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Norwegians-go-EV-crazy-drivers-fill-up-in-about-20-minutes-tp3514222p3514222.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
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belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de

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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Dave Hymers
In reply to this post by brucedp
Great story, hopefully the Norwegians become an example we can look to and
cite in efforts over here.
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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Danpatgal
In reply to this post by brucedp
I'm excited about EVs and glad Norway is creating incentives.  But, does anyone else find this side effect troubling?

brucedp wrote
New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
"It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.
I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but we get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't that counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.

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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Daniel Busby
This will certainly happen...  But, my guess is that in most cases
people will be trading their ICEs for EVs, and will far outweigh the
few bike --> EV switches.

-D

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Danpatgal <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm excited about EVs and glad Norway is creating incentives.  But, does
> anyone else find this side effect troubling?
>
>
> brucedp wrote:
>>
>> New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
>> "It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
>> escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.
>>
>
> I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but we
> get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't that
> counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's
> primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in
> convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Norwegians-go-EV-crazy-drivers-fill-up-in-about-20-minutes-tp3514222p3517992.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Matt Childress
In reply to this post by Danpatgal
depending on what form of public transportation is being given up, and for what type of EV, I'm all for it - start eBiking into work instead of taking a smelly, polluting, noisy and dangerous-to-pedestrians BUS, then yea!  Even if it's an electric car fueled off of renewables, then yea!

There are some forms of public transportation/mass transit that are less environmentally friendly than a Prius... such that the only reason they're greener than driving a Prius is because they're already in operation so they're going to travel the roads whether you take them or not.

M@

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Danpatgal
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

I'm excited about EVs and glad Norway is creating incentives.  But, does
anyone else find this side effect troubling?


brucedp wrote:
>
> New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
> "It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
> escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.
>

I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but we
get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't that
counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's
primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in
convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.



--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Norwegians-go-EV-crazy-drivers-fill-up-in-about-20-minutes-tp3514222p3517992.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

NevynPA
Agreed. The other way to look at it is "Person-Miles-Per-Gallon." A Prius is
clean AND efficient, but if it's only moving one person @ 50 MPG, that's 50
miles per person per gallon.

A bus may only get 8 miles on a gallon of gas, but if it's hauling 20
people, that's 8*20=160 miles per person per gallon.

One bus is better than 20 Priuses running around, right?

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:39, Childress, Matthew Clay <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> depending on what form of public transportation is being given up, and for
> what type of EV, I'm all for it - start eBiking into work instead of taking
> a smelly, polluting, noisy and dangerous-to-pedestrians BUS, then yea!  Even
> if it's an electric car fueled off of renewables, then yea!
>
> There are some forms of public transportation/mass transit that are less
> environmentally friendly than a Prius... such that the only reason they're
> greener than driving a Prius is because they're already in operation so
> they're going to travel the roads whether you take them or not.
>
> M@
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Danpatgal
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:07 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20
> minutes
>
> I'm excited about EVs and glad Norway is creating incentives.  But, does
> anyone else find this side effect troubling?
>
>
> brucedp wrote:
> >
> > New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
> > "It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
> > escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.
> >
>
> I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but we
> get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't that
> counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's
> primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in
> convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Norwegians-go-EV-crazy-drivers-fill-up-in-about-20-minutes-tp3514222p3517992.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

NevynPA
Got my units wrong. 8 MPG * 20 people is the same as moving 1 person 160
miles.

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:56, Jeff Haskell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Agreed. The other way to look at it is "Person-Miles-Per-Gallon." A Prius
> is clean AND efficient, but if it's only moving one person @ 50 MPG, that's
> 50 miles per person per gallon.
>
> A bus may only get 8 miles on a gallon of gas, but if it's hauling 20
> people, that's 8*20=160 miles per person per gallon.
>
> One bus is better than 20 Priuses running around, right?
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:39, Childress, Matthew Clay <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> depending on what form of public transportation is being given up, and for
>> what type of EV, I'm all for it - start eBiking into work instead of taking
>> a smelly, polluting, noisy and dangerous-to-pedestrians BUS, then yea!  Even
>> if it's an electric car fueled off of renewables, then yea!
>>
>> There are some forms of public transportation/mass transit that are less
>> environmentally friendly than a Prius... such that the only reason they're
>> greener than driving a Prius is because they're already in operation so
>> they're going to travel the roads whether you take them or not.
>>
>> M@
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Danpatgal
>> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:07 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20
>> minutes
>>
>> I'm excited about EVs and glad Norway is creating incentives.  But, does
>> anyone else find this side effect troubling?
>>
>>
>> brucedp wrote:
>> >
>> > New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
>> > "It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
>> > escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.
>> >
>>
>> I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but
>> we
>> get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't
>> that
>> counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's
>> primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in
>> convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Norwegians-go-EV-crazy-drivers-fill-up-in-about-20-minutes-tp3514222p3517992.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
>
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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Matt Childress
In reply to this post by NevynPA
Indeed IF that train/bus actually averages 20 people on it.  However that figure's inflated by at least double -- on average in areas that LOVE mass transit even more than the US (Great Britain) it's 10 people per passenger mile.  In the US it's MUCH worse.  Here's the numbers on Great Britain (London) so somewhere in there you can find out that it "is meant to be a factual statement".

        http://www.dft.gov.uk/adobepdf/162469/221412/221535/224237/517849/publictransportstatistics09.pdf 
        (courtesy of Brad Templeton's Blog)

In transit lingo it's termed "passenger-miles" so either passenger miles/gallon, or in BTU's per passenger mile -- here's a not-so-pretty picture of mass transit brad's cooked up:

        http://www.templetons.com/brad/transit-myth.html

A graph switched to pMPGe -- passenger miles per gallon equivalent-- can be found at the bottom. From a BTU-per-mile standpoint, Brad makes a pretty convincing argument that assuming that it is renewably-charged AND that the human powering the unelectrified electric bicycle is not a localvore & vegetarian that from solely an energy consumed standpoint (ignoring health, fitness, etc) that an eBike is more energy efficient than a human-powered bicycle.  As Brad warns, this is an argument to use less energy in producing our food (and buy locally/farmer's market), not to stop bicycling!  

        http://ideas.4brad.com/holy-cow-walking-consumes-more-gasoline-driving

So yes, ideally if a mass transit bus averages were high, then they'd be more efficient than a Prius.  But they're not because the majority of folks think that taking the bus is a great idea -- for everybody else!

So no, a bunch of busses running around are not better (in terms of energy/CO2 released/gas consumed) than a bunch of Priuses (or grid-charged EV's).  Especially the moment you add in a second (or third) passenger to your Prius/EV/eBike...

M@


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeff Haskell
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:56 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Agreed. The other way to look at it is "Person-Miles-Per-Gallon." A Prius is
clean AND efficient, but if it's only moving one person @ 50 MPG, that's 50
miles per person per gallon.

A bus may only get 8 miles on a gallon of gas, but if it's hauling 20
people, that's 8*20=160 miles per person per gallon.

One bus is better than 20 Priuses running around, right?

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:39, Childress, Matthew Clay <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> depending on what form of public transportation is being given up, and for
> what type of EV, I'm all for it - start eBiking into work instead of taking
> a smelly, polluting, noisy and dangerous-to-pedestrians BUS, then yea!  Even
> if it's an electric car fueled off of renewables, then yea!
>
> There are some forms of public transportation/mass transit that are less
> environmentally friendly than a Prius... such that the only reason they're
> greener than driving a Prius is because they're already in operation so
> they're going to travel the roads whether you take them or not.
>
> M@
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Danpatgal
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:07 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20
> minutes
>
> I'm excited about EVs and glad Norway is creating incentives.  But, does
> anyone else find this side effect troubling?
>
>
> brucedp wrote:
> >
> > New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
> > "It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
> > escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.
> >
>
> I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but we
> get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't that
> counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's
> primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in
> convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Norwegians-go-EV-crazy-drivers-fill-up-in-about-20-minutes-tp3514222p3517992.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Tim Clevenger
In reply to this post by brucedp
I had the same dilemma myself.  I lived 75 miles from work, and just
moved to 4.5 miles from work (along a river bike trail, no less.)  I
had decided to keep and fix up my old Currie Flyer, when I realized
that it was silly to burn even a few Wh of electricity when I could
bicycle to work in the same or less time, and maybe use up a little of
the extra 15 lb. (61kWh) of fat I've been carrying around my
midsection.  So I gave away the Currie.  YMMV of course.

-----------
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Danpatgal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy,     drivers "fill up" in about
       20 minutes

I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but we
get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't that
counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's
primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in
convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Roland Wiench
In reply to this post by brucedp
A friend of mine calculated the amount of energy that takes him to bike 5
miles up hill to the Double Barrel Café.  He says its take about hamburger
for 5 miles, which cost about a dollar a mile.

For me with my Ebike for 1 mile, it cost a cup of tea which cost about $2.35
a mile.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Haskell" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy,drivers "fill up" in about 20
minutes


> Got my units wrong. 8 MPG * 20 people is the same as moving 1 person 160
> miles.
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:56, Jeff Haskell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Agreed. The other way to look at it is "Person-Miles-Per-Gallon." A
> > Prius
> > is clean AND efficient, but if it's only moving one person @ 50 MPG,
> > that's
> > 50 miles per person per gallon.
> >
> > A bus may only get 8 miles on a gallon of gas, but if it's hauling 20
> > people, that's 8*20=160 miles per person per gallon.
> >
> > One bus is better than 20 Priuses running around, right?
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:39, Childress, Matthew Clay <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> depending on what form of public transportation is being given up, and
> >> for
> >> what type of EV, I'm all for it - start eBiking into work instead of
> >> taking
> >> a smelly, polluting, noisy and dangerous-to-pedestrians BUS, then yea!
> >> Even
> >> if it's an electric car fueled off of renewables, then yea!
> >>
> >> There are some forms of public transportation/mass transit that are
> >> less
> >> environmentally friendly than a Prius... such that the only reason
> >> they're
> >> greener than driving a Prius is because they're already in operation so
> >> they're going to travel the roads whether you take them or not.
> >>
> >> M@
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> >> Behalf Of Danpatgal
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:07 AM
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about
> >> 20
> >> minutes
> >>
> >> I'm excited about EVs and glad Norway is creating incentives.  But,
> >> does
> >> anyone else find this side effect troubling?
> >>
> >>
> >> brucedp wrote:
> >> >
> >> > New father Christian Blakseth traded his bicycle for an electric car.
> >> > "It's very advantageous to be able to park for free downtown and to
> >> > escape traffic jams," the young train conductor said.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution -
> >> but
> >> we
> >> get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't
> >> that
> >> counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's
> >> primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in
> >> convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Norwegians-go-EV-crazy-drivers-fill-up-in-about-20-minutes-tp3514222p3517992.html
> >> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> >> Nabble.com.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> >> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

lcalarea47
In reply to this post by Tim Clevenger
believe part of problem in last 5years or so , is explosion in illegal
immigrants into usa ,, causing over population which adds alot more autos on
roads highways etc etc .

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Tim Clevenger <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I had the same dilemma myself.  I lived 75 miles from work, and just
> moved to 4.5 miles from work (along a river bike trail, no less.)  I
> had decided to keep and fix up my old Currie Flyer, when I realized
> that it was silly to burn even a few Wh of electricity when I could
> bicycle to work in the same or less time, and maybe use up a little of
> the extra 15 lb. (61kWh) of fat I've been carrying around my
> midsection.  So I gave away the Currie.  YMMV of course.
>
> -----------
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Danpatgal <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy,     drivers "fill up" in about
>       20 minutes
>
> I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but we
> get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs isn't that
> counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for those who's
> primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a step up in
> convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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>
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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

EVDL Administrator
On 13 May 2011 at 10:53, lcalarea47 @dslextreme.com wrote:

> believe part of problem in last 5years or so , is explosion in illegal
> immigrants into usa

Keep the politics off the EVDL, please.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Norwegians go EV crazy, drivers "fill up" in about 20 minutes

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by Tim Clevenger
Thanks again, Tim!
Batteries are charged and I got some distance on them
but the lack of a few spokes in the rear wheel brought
it down quickly, so I am now fixing the last spoke,
then re-tightening them and then see how far it will go.
Several colleagues have already stepped into my office
to check out what that scooter is doing in the corner...

Can't wait to test the range, just need to be careful
with the brakes...

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Tim Clevenger
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:07 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy,drivers "fill up" in about 20
minutes

I had the same dilemma myself.  I lived 75 miles from work, and just
moved to 4.5 miles from work (along a river bike trail, no less.)  I had
decided to keep and fix up my old Currie Flyer, when I realized that it
was silly to burn even a few Wh of electricity when I could bicycle to
work in the same or less time, and maybe use up a little of the extra 15
lb. (61kWh) of fat I've been carrying around my midsection.  So I gave
away the Currie.  YMMV of course.

-----------
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Danpatgal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Norwegians go EV crazy,     drivers "fill up" in
about
       20 minutes

I mean, if we're trying to reduce congestion and overall pollution - but
we get walkers, bikers and public transportation users to drive EVs
isn't that counter productive?  I guess some of that will happen for
those who's primary concern is environmental impact and see EVs as a
step up in convenience without as large an impact as ICE vehicles.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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