Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

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Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list


https://qz.com/1542499/oil-companies-and-utilities-are-buying-up-all-the-electric-car-charging-startups/
Oil companies and utilities are buying up all the electric car charging
startups
February 5, 2019  Michael J. Coren

For decades, oil and gas companies and utilities dismissed electric cars.
Now, the old petroleum and power giants are muscling into the driver’s seat
of the “new fuels” industry.

It’s projected to be a big business. McKinsey counts more than 350 new
electric vehicle (EV) models debuting by 2025, one of the conditions for
mass-market adoption. Global demand for gasoline is set to peak around 2021
thanks to electric vehicles (EVs) and fuel efficiency gains. The energy
research and consultancy Wood Mackenzie predicts  charging infrastructure
investment in the US will exceed $18 billion annually by 2030 for equipment,
installation, operations, and services. China is expected to have three
times more energy demand from EVs by then.

Now, fossil fuel incumbents want in. They’re investing heavily or outright
acquiring electrical infrastructure needed to supply the millions of
electric vehicles (EVs) expected in the next few years. Although just 2.2%
of the world’s vehicles are electric, a record 2 million or so EVs were sold
last year amid exponential growth.

While the numbers aren’t huge yet—for example, Shell’s $1 billion in
renewable energy and EV investments amounts amounts to just 4% of its annual
capital expenditures—they’re growing fast. Globally, $334 billion was
invested in global clean energy in 2017, reports BNEF (pdf)

Public charging infrastructure is ramping up almost everywhere, and each
region has its own unique mix of players, says Bloomberg New Energy Finance
(BNEF). In Europe, 79% of the public charging infrastructure is operated by
utilities and oil companies. In the US, 62% of the market is managed by
pure-play EV operators. In China, equipment manufacturers control the
majority.

So far, European firms are making the biggest moves. The most recent move
was Royal Dutch Shell’s purchase of Greenlots, a startup offering software
and services for EV charging networks. The British-Dutch oil giant says it
will use Greenlot’s technology, which combines software to optimize battery
charging and grid balancing services in one charging platform, to build the
“foundation” of its EV business in North America. The company is pouring
about $1 billion a year into such deals, according to BNEF, including the
acquisition of 30,000 charging stations in Western Europe, as well as a $31
million investment into EV charging startup Ample in 2018.

Last year, France’s Total closed a deal for G2mobility, which offers EV
charging solutions, as well as a $1.7 billion deal for Direct Energie,
making it a major electricity retailer in France as well. Ultimately,
Reuters reports, Total wants to grow its “low-carbon energy assets” from 5%
of the total today to 20% by 2035. Most of Europe’s biggest oil firms now
have a hand in renewable energy, power trading, energy storage, retail
electricity sales, grid management, or EV charging.

“In Europe, the line between utilities and oil and gas companies is getting
a bit blurry,” said Colin McKerracher of BNEF at its summit in San Francisco
on Feb. 4. “The oil and gas companies in Europe see where this stuff is
going and want to ensure they are not missing out on it. … It’s not just a
downside hedge.”

The US is a different story. Companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil are just
starting to edge into utilities’ traditional territory. Last year, Chevron
participated in a $240 million round for ChargePoint, a network of
independently owned charging spots, valued at $1.5 billion, according to
Pitchbook.  The utility American Electric Power and German automaker Daimler
invested alongside the oil giant.

Most active are US utilities, with many partnering directly with car
companies. Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, San Diego
Gas & Electric, and New Jersey’s PSE&G have partnered with carmakers to
offer thousands of dollars in rebates for BMW, Nissan, and other brands.
California’s Pacific Gas & Electric, New York’s Consolidated Edison, the
southeast’s Duke Energy Company, and others covering almost every state are
lobbying Congress to extend EV tax credits. Pacific Gas and Electric is busy
investing in thousands of fast-charging stations around the state.
[© qz.com]


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-giants-competing-buy-battery-121427788.html
Oil giants are competing to buy battery companies
February 15, 2019  Shell has also acquired Greenlots and New Motion,
electric-car charging companies in the US and Europe, respectively. Sonnen
also says that it has developed its own technology for electric-car
charging, which will now become part of Shell’s growing portfolio in this
area ... It uses lithium-iron-phosphate batteries, which are known to be
cheaper and longer lasting than the nickel-cobalt-manganese b...
...
https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2019/02/shell-buys-sonnen-batterie.html
Shell buys sonnen batterie
February 15, 2019  With the help of Shell, sonnen will accelerate its
ability to offer innovative integrated energy services and electric vehicle
...


https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coast-ev-charging-network
Petro-Canada Launching Coast-to-Coast EV-Charging Network
Feb 15, 2019  CALGARY, Alberta -- Petro-Canada is building a coast-to-coast
network of electric vehicle (EV) fast-charging stations across Canada. The
company announced ...
https://cdn.winsightmedia.com/platform/files/public/2019-02/background/1800x945/petro-canada_1550260987.jpg?EoMeZ5FANDFPfplw86HazTLdoW1trd7A


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Greenlots-charge-paying-hell-Oil-acquired-another-EVSE-net-tp4692737.html
Greenlots charge= paying $hell-Oil> acquired another EVSE.net
Shell Acquires Greenlots to Lead North American EV Charging Push
Jan 31 2019


[dated]
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-U-S-Exxon-Mobil-EV-charging-network-Game-afoot-tp4674113.html
EVLN: U.S. Exxon Mobil EV-charging-network Game afoot
... electric vehicles (EV) around the world. The energy giant is planning to
build its own EV-charging network in the US and will start working on the
project within six months, according to a person familiar with the matter
who spoke with Bidness Etc. Exxon Mobil decided to enter the EV market as...
Mar 07, 2015


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shell-shock-oil-company-embraces-EVs-with-Shell-Recharge-charging-tp4688308.html
Shell shock> oil company embraces EVs with 'Shell Recharge' charging
... electric charging sphere. Currently, the oil company has more than
30,000 EV charge points in Europe ... Shell’s traditional looking “pump”
EVSE> £0.49/kWh...
Oct 22, 2017


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-in-talks-with-Electric-car-makers-on-partnering-to-offer-EVSE-their-stations-tp4687590.html
BP in talks with Electric car makers on partnering to offer EVSE @their
stations
... New Delhi, India, June 15, 2017 / Adnan Abidi LONDON (Reuters) - BP is
in talks with electric vehicle makers on partnering to offer battery
re-charging docks at its global network of fuel service stations as it seeks
to benefit from the move away from diesel and petrol cars, Chief Executive
Bob...
Aug 07, 2017


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-Fuel-Cards-sez-EV-charging-a-logical-move-use-their-ice-card-to-charge-a-plugin-tp4686324.html
BP Fuel Cards sez EV-charging a 'logical move'> (use their ice card to
charge a plugin?)
Apr 07, 2017 ... move and it will happen within the next year or two.” BP,
which operates a branded network of 1,300 sites, has already launched a
similar scheme in the Netherlands after multiple fast-charging systems were
introduced at some of its service stations in 2011, as part of a nationwide
trial. The...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
This is not unlike the tobacco companies buying up food companies back in
the 1980s.  They're planning ahead for diversifing their business model.

Peter Flipsen
Carlton, Oregon

On Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 11:25 PM brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email] wrote:

>
>
>
> https://qz.com/1542499/oil-companies-and-utilities-are-buying-up-all-the-electric-car-charging-startups/
> Oil companies and utilities are buying up all the electric car charging
> startups
> February 5, 2019  Michael J. Coren
>
> For decades, oil and gas companies and utilities dismissed electric cars.
> Now, the old petroleum and power giants are muscling into the driver’s seat
> of the “new fuels” industry.
>
> It’s projected to be a big business. McKinsey counts more than 350 new
> electric vehicle (EV) models debuting by 2025, one of the conditions for
> mass-market adoption. Global demand for gasoline is set to peak around 2021
> thanks to electric vehicles (EVs) and fuel efficiency gains. The energy
> research and consultancy Wood Mackenzie predicts  charging infrastructure
> investment in the US will exceed $18 billion annually by 2030 for
> equipment,
> installation, operations, and services. China is expected to have three
> times more energy demand from EVs by then.
>
> Now, fossil fuel incumbents want in. They’re investing heavily or outright
> acquiring electrical infrastructure needed to supply the millions of
> electric vehicles (EVs) expected in the next few years. Although just 2.2%
> of the world’s vehicles are electric, a record 2 million or so EVs were
> sold
> last year amid exponential growth.
>
> While the numbers aren’t huge yet—for example, Shell’s $1 billion in
> renewable energy and EV investments amounts amounts to just 4% of its
> annual
> capital expenditures—they’re growing fast. Globally, $334 billion was
> invested in global clean energy in 2017, reports BNEF (pdf)
>
> Public charging infrastructure is ramping up almost everywhere, and each
> region has its own unique mix of players, says Bloomberg New Energy Finance
> (BNEF). In Europe, 79% of the public charging infrastructure is operated by
> utilities and oil companies. In the US, 62% of the market is managed by
> pure-play EV operators. In China, equipment manufacturers control the
> majority.
>
> So far, European firms are making the biggest moves. The most recent move
> was Royal Dutch Shell’s purchase of Greenlots, a startup offering software
> and services for EV charging networks. The British-Dutch oil giant says it
> will use Greenlot’s technology, which combines software to optimize battery
> charging and grid balancing services in one charging platform, to build the
> “foundation” of its EV business in North America. The company is pouring
> about $1 billion a year into such deals, according to BNEF, including the
> acquisition of 30,000 charging stations in Western Europe, as well as a $31
> million investment into EV charging startup Ample in 2018.
>
> Last year, France’s Total closed a deal for G2mobility, which offers EV
> charging solutions, as well as a $1.7 billion deal for Direct Energie,
> making it a major electricity retailer in France as well. Ultimately,
> Reuters reports, Total wants to grow its “low-carbon energy assets” from 5%
> of the total today to 20% by 2035. Most of Europe’s biggest oil firms now
> have a hand in renewable energy, power trading, energy storage, retail
> electricity sales, grid management, or EV charging.
>
> “In Europe, the line between utilities and oil and gas companies is getting
> a bit blurry,” said Colin McKerracher of BNEF at its summit in San
> Francisco
> on Feb. 4. “The oil and gas companies in Europe see where this stuff is
> going and want to ensure they are not missing out on it. … It’s not just a
> downside hedge.”
>
> The US is a different story. Companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil are just
> starting to edge into utilities’ traditional territory. Last year, Chevron
> participated in a $240 million round for ChargePoint, a network of
> independently owned charging spots, valued at $1.5 billion, according to
> Pitchbook.  The utility American Electric Power and German automaker
> Daimler
> invested alongside the oil giant.
>
> Most active are US utilities, with many partnering directly with car
> companies. Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, San Diego
> Gas & Electric, and New Jersey’s PSE&G have partnered with carmakers to
> offer thousands of dollars in rebates for BMW, Nissan, and other brands.
> California’s Pacific Gas & Electric, New York’s Consolidated Edison, the
> southeast’s Duke Energy Company, and others covering almost every state are
> lobbying Congress to extend EV tax credits. Pacific Gas and Electric is
> busy
> investing in thousands of fast-charging stations around the state.
> [© qz.com]
>
>
>
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-giants-competing-buy-battery-121427788.html
> Oil giants are competing to buy battery companies
> February 15, 2019  Shell has also acquired Greenlots and New Motion,
> electric-car charging companies in the US and Europe, respectively. Sonnen
> also says that it has developed its own technology for electric-car
> charging, which will now become part of Shell’s growing portfolio in this
> area ... It uses lithium-iron-phosphate batteries, which are known to be
> cheaper and longer lasting than the nickel-cobalt-manganese b...
> ...
>
> https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2019/02/shell-buys-sonnen-batterie.html
> Shell buys sonnen batterie
> February 15, 2019  With the help of Shell, sonnen will accelerate its
> ability to offer innovative integrated energy services and electric vehicle
> ...
>
>
>
> https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coast-ev-charging-network
> Petro-Canada
> <https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coast-ev-charging-networkPetro-Canada>
> Launching Coast-to-Coast EV-Charging Network
> Feb 15, 2019  CALGARY, Alberta -- Petro-Canada is building a coast-to-coast
> network of electric vehicle (EV) fast-charging stations across Canada. The
> company announced ...
>
> https://cdn.winsightmedia.com/platform/files/public/2019-02/background/1800x945/petro-canada_1550260987.jpg?EoMeZ5FANDFPfplw86HazTLdoW1trd7A
>
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Greenlots-charge-paying-hell-Oil-acquired-another-EVSE-net-tp4692737.html
> Greenlots charge= paying $hell-Oil> acquired another EVSE.net
> Shell Acquires Greenlots to Lead North American EV Charging Push
> Jan 31 2019
>
>
> [dated]
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-U-S-Exxon-Mobil-EV-charging-network-Game-afoot-tp4674113.html
> EVLN: U.S. Exxon Mobil EV-charging-network Game afoot
> ... electric vehicles (EV) around the world. The energy giant is planning
> to
> build its own EV-charging network in the US and will start working on the
> project within six months, according to a person familiar with the matter
> who spoke with Bidness Etc. Exxon Mobil decided to enter the EV market
> as...
> Mar 07, 2015
>
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shell-shock-oil-company-embraces-EVs-with-Shell-Recharge-charging-tp4688308.html
> Shell shock> oil company embraces EVs with 'Shell Recharge' charging
> ... electric charging sphere. Currently, the oil company has more than
> 30,000 EV charge points in Europe ... Shell’s traditional looking “pump”
> EVSE> £0.49/kWh...
> Oct 22, 2017
>
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-in-talks-with-Electric-car-makers-on-partnering-to-offer-EVSE-their-stations-tp4687590.html
> BP in talks with Electric car makers on partnering to offer EVSE @their
> stations
> ... New Delhi, India, June 15, 2017 / Adnan Abidi LONDON (Reuters) - BP is
> in talks with electric vehicle makers on partnering to offer battery
> re-charging docks at its global network of fuel service stations as it
> seeks
> to benefit from the move away from diesel and petrol cars, Chief Executive
> Bob...
> Aug 07, 2017
>
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-Fuel-Cards-sez-EV-charging-a-logical-move-use-their-ice-card-to-charge-a-plugin-tp4686324.html
> BP Fuel Cards sez EV-charging a 'logical move'> (use their ice card to
> charge a plugin?)
> Apr 07, 2017 ... move and it will happen within the next year or two.” BP,
> which operates a branded network of 1,300 sites, has already launched a
> similar scheme in the Netherlands after multiple fast-charging systems were
> introduced at some of its service stations in 2011, as part of a nationwide
> trial. The...
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
It's kind of disgusting but I think it's a good sign. Better to have
them come on board rather than fight. Further, even if the current
startups in the renewable energy business thrive and grow on their own,
they probably won't end up being altruistic when they become dominant
players. Different names on the doors, same mentality.
Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "SLPinfo.org via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "SLPinfo.org" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 17-Feb-19 8:47:58 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil
buy-in

>This is not unlike the tobacco companies buying up food companies back in
>the 1980s.  They're planning ahead for diversifing their business model.
>
>Peter Flipsen
>Carlton, Oregon
>
>On Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 11:25 PM brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email] wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>  https://qz.com/1542499/oil-companies-and-utilities-are-buying-up-all-the-electric-car-charging-startups/
>>  Oil companies and utilities are buying up all the electric car charging
>>  startups
>>  February 5, 2019  Michael J. Coren
>>
>>  For decades, oil and gas companies and utilities dismissed electric cars.
>>  Now, the old petroleum and power giants are muscling into the driver’s seat
>>  of the “new fuels” industry.
>>
>>  It’s projected to be a big business. McKinsey counts more than 350 new
>>  electric vehicle (EV) models debuting by 2025, one of the conditions for
>>  mass-market adoption. Global demand for gasoline is set to peak around 2021
>>  thanks to electric vehicles (EVs) and fuel efficiency gains. The energy
>>  research and consultancy Wood Mackenzie predicts  charging infrastructure
>>  investment in the US will exceed $18 billion annually by 2030 for
>>  equipment,
>>  installation, operations, and services. China is expected to have three
>>  times more energy demand from EVs by then.
>>
>>  Now, fossil fuel incumbents want in. They’re investing heavily or outright
>>  acquiring electrical infrastructure needed to supply the millions of
>>  electric vehicles (EVs) expected in the next few years. Although just 2.2%
>>  of the world’s vehicles are electric, a record 2 million or so EVs were
>>  sold
>>  last year amid exponential growth.
>>
>>  While the numbers aren’t huge yet—for example, Shell’s $1 billion in
>>  renewable energy and EV investments amounts amounts to just 4% of its
>>  annual
>>  capital expenditures—they’re growing fast. Globally, $334 billion was
>>  invested in global clean energy in 2017, reports BNEF (pdf)
>>
>>  Public charging infrastructure is ramping up almost everywhere, and each
>>  region has its own unique mix of players, says Bloomberg New Energy Finance
>>  (BNEF). In Europe, 79% of the public charging infrastructure is operated by
>>  utilities and oil companies. In the US, 62% of the market is managed by
>>  pure-play EV operators. In China, equipment manufacturers control the
>>  majority.
>>
>>  So far, European firms are making the biggest moves. The most recent move
>>  was Royal Dutch Shell’s purchase of Greenlots, a startup offering software
>>  and services for EV charging networks. The British-Dutch oil giant says it
>>  will use Greenlot’s technology, which combines software to optimize battery
>>  charging and grid balancing services in one charging platform, to build the
>>  “foundation” of its EV business in North America. The company is pouring
>>  about $1 billion a year into such deals, according to BNEF, including the
>>  acquisition of 30,000 charging stations in Western Europe, as well as a $31
>>  million investment into EV charging startup Ample in 2018.
>>
>>  Last year, France’s Total closed a deal for G2mobility, which offers EV
>>  charging solutions, as well as a $1.7 billion deal for Direct Energie,
>>  making it a major electricity retailer in France as well. Ultimately,
>>  Reuters reports, Total wants to grow its “low-carbon energy assets” from 5%
>>  of the total today to 20% by 2035. Most of Europe’s biggest oil firms now
>>  have a hand in renewable energy, power trading, energy storage, retail
>>  electricity sales, grid management, or EV charging.
>>
>>  “In Europe, the line between utilities and oil and gas companies is getting
>>  a bit blurry,” said Colin McKerracher of BNEF at its summit in San
>>  Francisco
>>  on Feb. 4. “The oil and gas companies in Europe see where this stuff is
>>  going and want to ensure they are not missing out on it. … It’s not just a
>>  downside hedge.”
>>
>>  The US is a different story. Companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil are just
>>  starting to edge into utilities’ traditional territory. Last year, Chevron
>>  participated in a $240 million round for ChargePoint, a network of
>>  independently owned charging spots, valued at $1.5 billion, according to
>>  Pitchbook.  The utility American Electric Power and German automaker
>>  Daimler
>>  invested alongside the oil giant.
>>
>>  Most active are US utilities, with many partnering directly with car
>>  companies. Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, San Diego
>>  Gas & Electric, and New Jersey’s PSE&G have partnered with carmakers to
>>  offer thousands of dollars in rebates for BMW, Nissan, and other brands.
>>  California’s Pacific Gas & Electric, New York’s Consolidated Edison, the
>>  southeast’s Duke Energy Company, and others covering almost every state are
>>  lobbying Congress to extend EV tax credits. Pacific Gas and Electric is
>>  busy
>>  investing in thousands of fast-charging stations around the state.
>>  [© qz.com]
>>
>>
>>
>>  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-giants-competing-buy-battery-121427788.html
>>  Oil giants are competing to buy battery companies
>>  February 15, 2019  Shell has also acquired Greenlots and New Motion,
>>  electric-car charging companies in the US and Europe, respectively. Sonnen
>>  also says that it has developed its own technology for electric-car
>>  charging, which will now become part of Shell’s growing portfolio in this
>>  area ... It uses lithium-iron-phosphate batteries, which are known to be
>>  cheaper and longer lasting than the nickel-cobalt-manganese b...
>>  ...
>>
>>  https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2019/02/shell-buys-sonnen-batterie.html
>>  Shell buys sonnen batterie
>>  February 15, 2019  With the help of Shell, sonnen will accelerate its
>>  ability to offer innovative integrated energy services and electric vehicle
>>  ...
>>
>>
>>
>>  https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coast-ev-charging-network
>>  Petro-Canada
>>  <https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coast-ev-charging-networkPetro-Canada>
>>  Launching Coast-to-Coast EV-Charging Network
>>  Feb 15, 2019  CALGARY, Alberta -- Petro-Canada is building a coast-to-coast
>>  network of electric vehicle (EV) fast-charging stations across Canada. The
>>  company announced ...
>>
>>  https://cdn.winsightmedia.com/platform/files/public/2019-02/background/1800x945/petro-canada_1550260987.jpg?EoMeZ5FANDFPfplw86HazTLdoW1trd7A
>>
>>
>>
>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Greenlots-charge-paying-hell-Oil-acquired-another-EVSE-net-tp4692737.html
>>  Greenlots charge= paying $hell-Oil> acquired another EVSE.net
>>  Shell Acquires Greenlots to Lead North American EV Charging Push
>>  Jan 31 2019
>>
>>
>>  [dated]
>>
>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-U-S-Exxon-Mobil-EV-charging-network-Game-afoot-tp4674113.html
>>  EVLN: U.S. Exxon Mobil EV-charging-network Game afoot
>>  ... electric vehicles (EV) around the world. The energy giant is planning
>>  to
>>  build its own EV-charging network in the US and will start working on the
>>  project within six months, according to a person familiar with the matter
>>  who spoke with Bidness Etc. Exxon Mobil decided to enter the EV market
>>  as...
>>  Mar 07, 2015
>>
>>
>>
>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shell-shock-oil-company-embraces-EVs-with-Shell-Recharge-charging-tp4688308.html
>>  Shell shock> oil company embraces EVs with 'Shell Recharge' charging
>>  ... electric charging sphere. Currently, the oil company has more than
>>  30,000 EV charge points in Europe ... Shell’s traditional looking “pump”
>>  EVSE> £0.49/kWh...
>>  Oct 22, 2017
>>
>>
>>
>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-in-talks-with-Electric-car-makers-on-partnering-to-offer-EVSE-their-stations-tp4687590.html
>>  BP in talks with Electric car makers on partnering to offer EVSE @their
>>  stations
>>  ... New Delhi, India, June 15, 2017 / Adnan Abidi LONDON (Reuters) - BP is
>>  in talks with electric vehicle makers on partnering to offer battery
>>  re-charging docks at its global network of fuel service stations as it
>>  seeks
>>  to benefit from the move away from diesel and petrol cars, Chief Executive
>>  Bob...
>>  Aug 07, 2017
>>
>>
>>
>>  http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-Fuel-Cards-sez-EV-charging-a-logical-move-use-their-ice-card-to-charge-a-plugin-tp4686324.html
>>  BP Fuel Cards sez EV-charging a 'logical move'> (use their ice card to
>>  charge a plugin?)
>>  Apr 07, 2017 ... move and it will happen within the next year or two.” BP,
>>  which operates a branded network of 1,300 sites, has already launched a
>>  similar scheme in the Netherlands after multiple fast-charging systems were
>>  introduced at some of its service stations in 2011, as part of a nationwide
>>  trial. The...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>   http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>>  {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>>  --
>>  Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>  http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>  Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
But these investers in big fast public chargers are not getting what they
think they are getting.  They are counting on a hundred thousand charging
station opportunities, (that’s the number of gas stations).  But just like
nobody goes to Washington DC to buy gas at $5/gallon except when despite,
EV's always can charge at home or at work 95% of the time.  SO the market
for big charging stations will not be as big as for gas stations.

If I know I can always charge at home, I will not twiddle my thumbs at a 20
minute FILLUP convenience store, but will only putin 5 minutes of charge to
get home and fill up there.

You cannot do that with gas, though I am amazed at the number of people that
only put $5 worth of gas in their cars.  (and spend half their driving time
going back to the station!)

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: EV <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2019 12:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Cc: Peri Hartman <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil
buy-in

It's kind of disgusting but I think it's a good sign. Better to have them
come on board rather than fight. Further, even if the current startups in
the renewable energy business thrive and grow on their own, they probably
won't end up being altruistic when they become dominant players. Different
names on the doors, same mentality.
Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "SLPinfo.org via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "SLPinfo.org" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 17-Feb-19 8:47:58 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil
buy-in

>This is not unlike the tobacco companies buying up food companies back
>in the 1980s.  They're planning ahead for diversifing their business model.
>
>Peter Flipsen
>Carlton, Oregon
>
>On Sat, Feb 16, 2019, 11:25 PM brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email] wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://qz.com/1542499/oil-companies-and-utilities-are-buying-up-all-
>> the-electric-car-charging-startups/
>>  Oil companies and utilities are buying up all the electric car
>> charging  startups  February 5, 2019  Michael J. Coren
>>
>>  For decades, oil and gas companies and utilities dismissed electric
>> cars.
>>  Now, the old petroleum and power giants are muscling into the
>> driver’s seat  of the “new fuels” industry.
>>
>>  It’s projected to be a big business. McKinsey counts more than 350
>> new  electric vehicle (EV) models debuting by 2025, one of the
>> conditions for  mass-market adoption. Global demand for gasoline is
>> set to peak around 2021  thanks to electric vehicles (EVs) and fuel
>> efficiency gains. The energy  research and consultancy Wood Mackenzie
>> predicts  charging infrastructure  investment in the US will exceed
>> $18 billion annually by 2030 for  equipment,  installation,
>> operations, and services. China is expected to have three  times more
>> energy demand from EVs by then.
>>
>>  Now, fossil fuel incumbents want in. They’re investing heavily or
>> outright  acquiring electrical infrastructure needed to supply the
>> millions of  electric vehicles (EVs) expected in the next few years.
>> Although just 2.2%  of the world’s vehicles are electric, a record 2
>> million or so EVs were  sold  last year amid exponential growth.
>>
>>  While the numbers aren’t huge yet—for example, Shell’s $1 billion in
>> renewable energy and EV investments amounts amounts to just 4% of its
>> annual  capital expenditures—they’re growing fast. Globally, $334
>> billion was  invested in global clean energy in 2017, reports BNEF
>> (pdf)
>>
>>  Public charging infrastructure is ramping up almost everywhere, and
>> each  region has its own unique mix of players, says Bloomberg New
>> Energy Finance  (BNEF). In Europe, 79% of the public charging
>> infrastructure is operated by  utilities and oil companies. In the
>> US, 62% of the market is managed by  pure-play EV operators. In
>> China, equipment manufacturers control the  majority.
>>
>>  So far, European firms are making the biggest moves. The most recent
>> move  was Royal Dutch Shell’s purchase of Greenlots, a startup
>> offering software  and services for EV charging networks. The
>> British-Dutch oil giant says it  will use Greenlot’s technology,
>> which combines software to optimize battery  charging and grid
>> balancing services in one charging platform, to build the
>> “foundation” of its EV business in North America. The company is
>> pouring  about $1 billion a year into such deals, according to BNEF,
>> including the  acquisition of 30,000 charging stations in Western Europe,
>> as well as a $31  million investment into EV charging startup Ample in
>> 2018.
>>
>>  Last year, France’s Total closed a deal for G2mobility, which offers
>> EV  charging solutions, as well as a $1.7 billion deal for Direct
>> Energie,  making it a major electricity retailer in France as well.
>> Ultimately,  Reuters reports, Total wants to grow its “low-carbon
>> energy assets” from 5%  of the total today to 20% by 2035. Most of
>> Europe’s biggest oil firms now  have a hand in renewable energy,
>> power trading, energy storage, retail  electricity sales, grid
>> management, or EV charging.
>>
>>  “In Europe, the line between utilities and oil and gas companies is
>> getting  a bit blurry,” said Colin McKerracher of BNEF at its summit
>> in San  Francisco  on Feb. 4. “The oil and gas companies in Europe
>> see where this stuff is  going and want to ensure they are not
>> missing out on it. … It’s not just a  downside hedge.”
>>
>>  The US is a different story. Companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil
>> are just  starting to edge into utilities’ traditional territory.
>> Last year, Chevron  participated in a $240 million round for
>> ChargePoint, a network of  independently owned charging spots, valued
>> at $1.5 billion, according to  Pitchbook.  The utility American
>> Electric Power and German automaker  Daimler  invested alongside the
>> oil giant.
>>
>>  Most active are US utilities, with many partnering directly with car
>> companies. Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, San
>> Diego  Gas & Electric, and New Jersey’s PSE&G have partnered with
>> carmakers to  offer thousands of dollars in rebates for BMW, Nissan, and
>> other brands.
>>  California’s Pacific Gas & Electric, New York’s Consolidated Edison,
>> the  southeast’s Duke Energy Company, and others covering almost
>> every state are  lobbying Congress to extend EV tax credits. Pacific
>> Gas and Electric is  busy  investing in thousands of fast-charging
>> stations around the state.
>>  [© qz.com]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-giants-competing-buy-battery-12142
>> 7788.html  Oil giants are competing to buy battery companies
>> February 15, 2019  Shell has also acquired Greenlots and New Motion,
>> electric-car charging companies in the US and Europe, respectively.
>> Sonnen  also says that it has developed its own technology for
>> electric-car  charging, which will now become part of Shell’s growing
>> portfolio in this  area ... It uses lithium-iron-phosphate batteries,
>> which are known to be  cheaper and longer lasting than the
>> nickel-cobalt-manganese b...
>>  ...
>>
>>
>> https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2019/02/shell-buys-sonn
>> en-batterie.html
>>  Shell buys sonnen batterie
>>  February 15, 2019  With the help of Shell, sonnen will accelerate
>> its  ability to offer innovative integrated energy services and
>> electric vehicle  ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coast
>> -ev-charging-network
>>  Petro-Canada
>>
>> <https://www.cspdailynews.com/fuels/petro-canada-launching-coast-coas
>> t-ev-charging-networkPetro-Canada>
>>  Launching Coast-to-Coast EV-Charging Network  Feb 15, 2019  CALGARY,
>> Alberta -- Petro-Canada is building a coast-to-coast  network of
>> electric vehicle (EV) fast-charging stations across Canada. The
>> company announced ...
>>
>>
>> https://cdn.winsightmedia.com/platform/files/public/2019-02/backgroun
>> d/1800x945/petro-canada_1550260987.jpg?EoMeZ5FANDFPfplw86HazTLdoW1trd
>> 7A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Greenlot
>> s-charge-paying-hell-Oil-acquired-another-EVSE-net-tp4692737.html
>>  Greenlots charge= paying $hell-Oil> acquired another EVSE.net  Shell
>> Acquires Greenlots to Lead North American EV Charging Push  Jan 31
>> 2019
>>
>>
>>  [dated]
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-U-S
>> -Exxon-Mobil-EV-charging-network-Game-afoot-tp4674113.html
>>  EVLN: U.S. Exxon Mobil EV-charging-network Game afoot  ... electric
>> vehicles (EV) around the world. The energy giant is planning  to
>> build its own EV-charging network in the US and will start working on
>> the  project within six months, according to a person familiar with
>> the matter  who spoke with Bidness Etc. Exxon Mobil decided to enter
>> the EV market  as...
>>  Mar 07, 2015
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shell-sh
>> ock-oil-company-embraces-EVs-with-Shell-Recharge-charging-tp4688308.h
>> tml  Shell shock> oil company embraces EVs with 'Shell Recharge'
>> charging  ... electric charging sphere. Currently, the oil company
>> has more than
>>  30,000 EV charge points in Europe ... Shell’s traditional looking “pump”
>>  EVSE> £0.49/kWh...
>>  Oct 22, 2017
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-in-ta
>> lks-with-Electric-car-makers-on-partnering-to-offer-EVSE-their-statio
>> ns-tp4687590.html  BP in talks with Electric car makers on partnering
>> to offer EVSE @their  stations  ... New Delhi, India, June 15, 2017 /
>> Adnan Abidi LONDON (Reuters) - BP is  in talks with electric vehicle
>> makers on partnering to offer battery  re-charging docks at its
>> global network of fuel service stations as it  seeks  to benefit from
>> the move away from diesel and petrol cars, Chief Executive  Bob...
>>  Aug 07, 2017
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BP-Fuel-
>> Cards-sez-EV-charging-a-logical-move-use-their-ice-card-to-charge-a-p
>> lugin-tp4686324.html  BP Fuel Cards sez EV-charging a 'logical move'>
>> (use their ice card to  charge a plugin?)  Apr 07, 2017 ... move and
>> it will happen within the next year or two.” BP,  which operates a
>> branded network of 1,300 sites, has already launched a  similar
>> scheme in the Netherlands after multiple fast-charging systems were
>> introduced at some of its service stations in 2011, as part of a
>> nationwide  trial. The...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>   http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>>  {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>>  --
>>  Sent from:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>  http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>  Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> If I know I can always charge at home, I will not twiddle my thumbs at a 20
> minute FILLUP convenience store, but will only putin 5 minutes of charge to
> get home and fill up there.

Ah, but you underestimate the power of lawyers, laws, and money.

What if they pass laws that make it illegal to charge your EV at home,
because it's "dangerous"? After all, some states do not allow you to
pump your own gas, supposedly for "safety" reasons.

What if the power companies rig things so they "own" the electricity in
your EV's battery, so they can take it back for P2G to handle peak
demands on the grid? Since they "own" it, they can control when and
where it can be put in or taken back out.

What if EVs are only provided with special patented licensed charging
connectors, which cannot be sold for installation in private dwellings?

The oil companies are only getting involved in EV charging to make
money. Restricting access to increase prices is bound to be a part of
their plan.

--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
_______________________________________________
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
That is where voters come into the picture. Utilities and oil companies
can't do anything that the voting majority does not allow, iether directly
through their representative lawmakers or indirectly through the regulating
PUC. So, go out and vote AND educate other voters what to vote for!
Cor.

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:18 AM Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email] wrote:

> Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> > If I know I can always charge at home, I will not twiddle my thumbs at a
> 20
> > minute FILLUP convenience store, but will only putin 5 minutes of charge
> to
> > get home and fill up there.
>
> Ah, but you underestimate the power of lawyers, laws, and money.
>
> What if they pass laws that make it illegal to charge your EV at home,
> because it's "dangerous"? After all, some states do not allow you to
> pump your own gas, supposedly for "safety" reasons.
>
> What if the power companies rig things so they "own" the electricity in
> your EV's battery, so they can take it back for P2G to handle peak
> demands on the grid? Since they "own" it, they can control when and
> where it can be put in or taken back out.
>
> What if EVs are only provided with special patented licensed charging
> connectors, which cannot be sold for installation in private dwellings?
>
> The oil companies are only getting involved in EV charging to make
> money. Restricting access to increase prices is bound to be a part of
> their plan.
>
> --
> Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
> violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
> in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
That's a scary thought. I don't see it happening though. And I think the
reason lies in the balance between home charging and public EVSE
charging. As long as there are enough people home charging, they won't
be complacent to demands by power company lawyers.

But I think there will also be a significant number - maybe 50% - of
people who will use public EVSEs. These would include people taking road
trips or extra long day excursions. But also includes people who cannot
charge at home. More and more people are moving from farm to suburbs and
from suburbs to cities. Many live in places without dedicated parking or
any private parking at all. If they own a car, they will use public
charging. Also, as ride sharing (through companies like uber or car2go)
increases, so will the need for fast charging at public EVSEs. I
maintain that there will be significant demand.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "Lee Hart via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Lee Hart" <[hidden email]>
Sent: 17-Feb-19 11:20:15 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil
buy-in

>Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>>If I know I can always charge at home, I will not twiddle my thumbs at a 20
>>minute FILLUP convenience store, but will only putin 5 minutes of charge to
>>get home and fill up there.
>
>Ah, but you underestimate the power of lawyers, laws, and money.
>
>What if they pass laws that make it illegal to charge your EV at home, because it's "dangerous"? After all, some states do not allow you to pump your own gas, supposedly for "safety" reasons.
>
>What if the power companies rig things so they "own" the electricity in your EV's battery, so they can take it back for P2G to handle peak demands on the grid? Since they "own" it, they can control when and where it can be put in or taken back out.
>
>What if EVs are only provided with special patented licensed charging connectors, which cannot be sold for installation in private dwellings?
>
>The oil companies are only getting involved in EV charging to make money. Restricting access to increase prices is bound to be a part of their plan.
>
>-- Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
>violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
>in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
>--
>Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

_______________________________________________
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> That's a scary thought. I don't see it happening though. And I think the
> reason lies in the balance between home charging and public EVSE
> charging. As long as there are enough people home charging, they won't
> be complacent to demands by power company lawyers.
>
> But I think there will also be a significant number - maybe 50% - of
> people who will use public EVSEs. These would include people taking road
> trips or extra long day excursions. But also includes people who cannot
> charge at home. More and more people are moving from farm to suburbs and
> from suburbs to cities. Many live in places without dedicated parking or
> any private parking at all. If they own a car, they will use public
> charging. Also, as ride sharing (through companies like uber or car2go)
> increases, so will the need for fast charging at public EVSEs. I
> maintain that there will be significant demand.

I *hope* it won't happen. But I also fear that it can.

Right now, a negligible number of people drive EVs. The public at large
still considers them golf carts, or rich yuppie toys. The media is
already plagued with fear-mongering stories about EV fires and crashes.
There are plenty of astro-turf groups claiming that EV mandates are
"raising our taxes and costing us money". So it is easy to 'sell' these
people on plans to make these EV freaks pay more, and restrict their use.

We've already seen laws that add extra fees to license EVs. The NEC
(National Electric Code in the US) already has a section added to place
serious restrictions on home EV charging equipment (it's why auto
company EVs all have that J1772 plug instead of some standard AC
receptacle). We already have public EVSE companies that charge huge fees
per KWH. We've already had utilities add special fees and requirements
for EV charging.

Sooner or later, EV owners will *have* to get organized. We have to
start lobbying for fair laws and regulations. Otherwise, the other side
is going to slowly box us into a corner and legislate us out of the picture.

--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
> That is where voters come into the picture. Utilities and oil companies
> can't do anything that the voting majority does not allow, iether directly
> through their representative lawmakers or indirectly through the regulating
> PUC. So, go out and vote AND educate other voters what to vote for!

Hear, hear! Absolutely right!

If we do not work for a future we want, the auto/oil companies will work
for a future that THEY want. And their future plans for us are not
likely to be good.

--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Buy Tesla

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 17, 2019, at 1:20 PM, Lee Hart via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>> If I know I can always charge at home, I will not twiddle my thumbs at a 20
>> minute FILLUP convenience store, but will only putin 5 minutes of charge to
>> get home and fill up there.
>
> Ah, but you underestimate the power of lawyers, laws, and money.
>
> What if they pass laws that make it illegal to charge your EV at home, because it's "dangerous"? After all, some states do not allow you to pump your own gas, supposedly for "safety" reasons.
>
> What if the power companies rig things so they "own" the electricity in your EV's battery, so they can take it back for P2G to handle peak demands on the grid? Since they "own" it, they can control when and where it can be put in or taken back out.
>
> What if EVs are only provided with special patented licensed charging connectors, which cannot be sold for installation in private dwellings?
>
> The oil companies are only getting involved in EV charging to make money. Restricting access to increase prices is bound to be a part of their plan.
>
> --
> Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
> violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
> in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> _______________________________________________
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>

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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Pardon my cynicism, but what if the oil industry's interest in EV
charging stations is not simply a relatively benign profit motive?

If an industry which sees its primary source of profits being threatened
by EVs takes control of a significant part of the charging
infrastructure, what is to stop them from just turning them off randomly
and eventually removing them due 'to lack of demand'?  (Like how there
is a 'lack of demand' for EVs in the car-buying public today.)

GM certainly did not do an effective job of maintaining their inductive
public chargers while leasing the EV-1 in the 1990s when their profits
were tied to selling gasoline and diesel vehicles.

What happens to the perception of EVs for potential buyers if public
charging stations are frequently out of service, or start being removed
as 'not cost effective' or experiencing 'lack of demand'?

If the oil industry is truly on-board with EVs, why aren't they buying
electric car makers?  That would be a big investment and a big vote that
the oil industry sees EVs as inevitable.

If the oil industry wants to sustain their
'fast-fueling-at-owned-commercial-locations' business model as
transportation fuel shifts to electricity, why is there not a massive
campaign to install fast charging stations at their existing properties
where their future electric car charging patrons are already refueling
their gasoline and diesel vehicles (as they have in places with propane)?

(I have seen some stories about Petro-Canada and Shell dipping their
toes into this niche, but nothing resembling a wholesale strategy to
enable such a shift.  Petro-Canada's installations do seem to coincide
with government incentive programs.)

Installing fast chargers at every property they already own for
petroleum refuelling would also be a big investment and signal to
potential EV buyers.

However, if my objective was to be able to create as much disruption as
possible to EV refueling for the minimum investment (acquiring a
choke-hold), I would be buying a controlling interest in just the
charging network operators, and skipping the big bets on actually paying
for fixed capital assets.

And as I read the news to date, for the most part, that is what the oil
majors are doing.

Darryl McMahon

On 2/17/2019 9:53 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 01:25:49 -0600 (CST)
> From: brucedp5<[hidden email]>
> To:[hidden email]
> Subject: [EVDL] Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil
> buy-in
> Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
>
> https://qz.com/1542499/oil-companies-and-utilities-are-buying-up-all-the-electric-car-charging-startups/
> Oil companies and utilities are buying up all the electric car charging
> startups
> February 5, 2019  Michael J. Coren
>
> For decades, oil and gas companies and utilities dismissed electric cars.
> Now, the old petroleum and power giants are muscling into the driver?s seat
> of the ?new fuels? industry.
>
> It?s projected to be a big business. McKinsey counts more than 350 new
> electric vehicle (EV) models debuting by 2025, one of the conditions for
> mass-market adoption. Global demand for gasoline is set to peak around 2021
> thanks to electric vehicles (EVs) and fuel efficiency gains. The energy
> research and consultancy Wood Mackenzie predicts  charging infrastructure
> investment in the US will exceed $18 billion annually by 2030 for equipment,
> installation, operations, and services. China is expected to have three
> times more energy demand from EVs by then.
>
> Now, fossil fuel incumbents want in. They?re investing heavily or outright
> acquiring electrical infrastructure needed to supply the millions of
> electric vehicles (EVs) expected in the next few years. Although just 2.2%
> of the world?s vehicles are electric, a record 2 million or so EVs were sold
> last year amid exponential growth.
>
> While the numbers aren?t huge yet?for example, Shell?s $1 billion in
> renewable energy and EV investments amounts amounts to just 4% of its annual
> capital expenditures?they?re growing fast. Globally, $334 billion was
> invested in global clean energy in 2017, reports BNEF (pdf)
>
> Public charging infrastructure is ramping up almost everywhere, and each
> region has its own unique mix of players, says Bloomberg New Energy Finance
> (BNEF). In Europe, 79% of the public charging infrastructure is operated by
> utilities and oil companies. In the US, 62% of the market is managed by
> pure-play EV operators. In China, equipment manufacturers control the
> majority.
>
> So far, European firms are making the biggest moves. The most recent move
> was Royal Dutch Shell?s purchase of Greenlots, a startup offering software
> and services for EV charging networks. The British-Dutch oil giant says it
> will use Greenlot?s technology, which combines software to optimize battery
> charging and grid balancing services in one charging platform, to build the
> ?foundation? of its EV business in North America. The company is pouring
> about $1 billion a year into such deals, according to BNEF, including the
> acquisition of 30,000 charging stations in Western Europe, as well as a $31
> million investment into EV charging startup Ample in 2018.
>
> Last year, France?s Total closed a deal for G2mobility, which offers EV
> charging solutions, as well as a $1.7 billion deal for Direct Energie,
> making it a major electricity retailer in France as well. Ultimately,
> Reuters reports, Total wants to grow its ?low-carbon energy assets? from 5%
> of the total today to 20% by 2035. Most of Europe?s biggest oil firms now
> have a hand in renewable energy, power trading, energy storage, retail
> electricity sales, grid management, or EV charging.
>
> ?In Europe, the line between utilities and oil and gas companies is getting
> a bit blurry,? said Colin McKerracher of BNEF at its summit in San Francisco
> on Feb. 4. ?The oil and gas companies in Europe see where this stuff is
> going and want to ensure they are not missing out on it. ? It?s not just a
> downside hedge.?
>
> The US is a different story. Companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil are just
> starting to edge into utilities? traditional territory. Last year, Chevron
> participated in a $240 million round for ChargePoint, a network of
> independently owned charging spots, valued at $1.5 billion, according to
> Pitchbook.  The utility American Electric Power and German automaker Daimler
> invested alongside the oil giant.
>
> Most active are US utilities, with many partnering directly with car
> companies. Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, San Diego
> Gas & Electric, and New Jersey?s PSE&G have partnered with carmakers to
> offer thousands of dollars in rebates for BMW, Nissan, and other brands.
> California?s Pacific Gas & Electric, New York?s Consolidated Edison, the
> southeast?s Duke Energy Company, and others covering almost every state are
> lobbying Congress to extend EV tax credits. Pacific Gas and Electric is busy
> investing in thousands of fast-charging stations around the state.
> [? qz.com]

<snip additional articles>

--
Darryl McMahon


--
Darryl McMahon
Freelance Project Manager (sustainable systems)
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

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Darryl McMahon via EV wrote:
> Pardon my cynicism, but what if the oil industry's interest in EV
> charging stations is not simply a relatively benign profit motive?

I'd say the best-case scenario is that the oil industry simply wants to
make money off EV charging. In that case, they would simply attempt to
monopolize it, and jack up prices.

The worst-case scenarios are a lot darker. They could buy the charging
infrastructure just to shut it down.

Remember how the auto companies bought out their EV competitors in the
early days, and shut them down? Or how the trolley cars were bought up
and dismantled to promote city bus sales? Or how fast the Magnecharger
network disappeared when GM crushed their EV-1s? Or how fast Nimh EV
batteries became "unobtainium" as soon as Texaco and then Chevron got
hold of the patents?

My worst fear is that someone will buy out Tesla, and then proceed to
systematically destroy it.

--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

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On 18 Feb 2019 at 1:06, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Or how fast Nimh EV batteries became "unobtainium" as soon as Texaco
> and then Chevron got hold of the patents?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was even before that.

I may be remembering with an accent, but I think Ovshinsky sold the NiMH
rights to GM, naively thinking they'd use NiMH in EVs.  They did fit NiMH to
a few limited-production EV-1s, but they also slapped capacity restrictions
on them so that no other manufacturer could be licensed to produce EV-size
batteries.  Texaco then bought the rights from GM and maintained the same
restrictions.  

We could have had good, usable production EVs long before we did. Look at
how NiMH performed in the first-generation RAV4-EVs and (especially) the
prototype Solectria Sunrise.  Also note that Toyota and Panasonic were sued
for violating the licensing terms.  

I don't think it's unfair to say that Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM may have
delayed the introduction of viable mass-production EVs for at least 20
years.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

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On 2/18/19 2:42 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

> I don't think it's unfair to say that Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM may have
> delayed the introduction of viable mass-production EVs for at least 20
> years.

I usually argue a more conservative 10 years.  I think we can consider
about 2006 to be the beginning of the lithium era. I often refer to this
write up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries
https://goo.gl/3MexMM

To this day, I frequently encounter people that claim EVs were not
practical until lithium became available.  It seems GM's FUD of the EV1
era is still trickling down.  With GM's background, I don't see how
anyone familiar with the situation can, in good conscious, buy a GM car.


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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

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The way I heard the story was that he made big promises but failed to deliver. He had trouble managing money apparently not unlike Nikola Tesla. Here’s an article in Forbes that has part of the story.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/1124/086.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 18, 2019, at 6:51 AM, Willie via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 2/18/19 2:42 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>>
>> I don't think it's unfair to say that Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM may have
>> delayed the introduction of viable mass-production EVs for at least 20
>> years.
>
> I usually argue a more conservative 10 years.  I think we can consider about 2006 to be the beginning of the lithium era. I often refer to this write up:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries
> https://goo.gl/3MexMM
>
> To this day, I frequently encounter people that claim EVs were not practical until lithium became available.  It seems GM's FUD of the EV1 era is still trickling down.  With GM's background, I don't see how anyone familiar with the situation can, in good conscious, buy a GM car.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Oil &utilities buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

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paul dove via EV wrote:
> The way I heard the story was that he made big promises but failed to deliver. He had trouble managing money apparently not unlike Nikola Tesla. Here’s an article in Forbes that has part of the story.

Like many innovators, Ovshinsky focused more on the ideas and inventions
than on the details of implementation. He proved it was possible; and
left it to others to work out the details of production and how to make
money. His company (ECD) was all about R&D, and then licensing the
inventions to others.

Thus, he licensed the nimh patents to many companies to perfect and
produce them. As usual in such matters, the companies insisted on
contracts that prevented their competitors from licensing the same
patents. Thus Panasonic wanted to block Duracell and Energizer, and GM
wanted to block Ford and Toyota.

Ovonic was set up as a joint venture between GM and ECD. ECD provided
the patents and R&D; GM provided the money. But GM had 51% controlling
interest. Ovshinsky just didn't have the money, or financial acument to
match the likes of GM. So GM basically had a monopoly on large nimh cells.

--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Ovshinsky was used/played/taken: ... fossil buy-in

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Oil-utilities-buying-up-EVSE-net-charging-fossil-buy-in-tp4692843p4692874.html
]

David said> ... Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM ... <

https://www.google.com/search?q=nimh+ovshinsky+sold+gm
 ... Ovshinsky ... decision to sell to GM had been naive ...

Long before the internet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet#Rise_of_the_global_Internet_(late_1980s/early_1990s_onward)
I would read through tons of paper media on Ovshinsky's efforts to make
Ovonic (NiMH baterry) a success.

I differ from Willie, IMO, ALL automakers & oil/fossil were in cahoots to
maintain their incessant ice profit orgy (not just GM, though they are the
worst).

(section of Willie's page link)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries#General_Motors_and_the_US_Auto_Battery_Consortium
 ... Ovshinsky stated that in the early 1990s, the auto industry created the
US Auto Battery Consortium (USABC) to stifle the development of electric
vehicle technology by preventing the dissemination of knowledge about
Ovshinky's battery-related patents to the public through the California Air
Resources Board (CARB).

According to Ovshinsky, the auto industry falsely suggested that NiMH
technology was not yet ready for widespread use in road cars. Members of the
USABC, including General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, threatened to take
legal action against Ovshinsky if he continued to promote NiMH's potential
for use in BEVs, and if he continued to lend test batteries to Solectria, a
start-up electric vehicle maker that was not part of the USABC. The Big
Three car companies argued that his behavior violated their exclusive rights
to the battery technology, because they had matched a federal government
grant given to Ovonics to develop NiMH technology. Critics argue that the
Big Three were more interested in convincing CARB members that electric
vehicles were not technologically and commercially viable.

In 1994, General Motors acquired a controlling interest in Ovonics's battery
development and manufacture, including patents controlling the manufacture
of large NiMH batteries. The original intent of the equity alliance was to
develop NiMH batteries for GM's EV1 BEV. Sales of GM-Ovonics batteries were
later taken over by GM manager and critic of CARB John Williams, leading
Ovshinsky to wonder whether his decision to sell to GM had been naive. The
EV1 program was shut down by GM before the new NiMH battery could be
commercialized, despite field tests that indicated the Ovonics battery
extended the EV1's range to over 150 miles ...

Darryl cynicism is warranted. Though we (the public) can't do much about it,
we should keep our eye of those fat-profit-takers, and scream bloody murder
(on the internet) when they step out of line.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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(more): Oil &utilities > fossil buy-in

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
% There has been a lot of interest in this topic.
 Normally, I do not post pro-oil/fossil news-items, but these might be of
interest/related. %


http://redgreenandblue.org/2019/02/16/ev-clean-revolution-include-fossil-fuel-dinosaurs-like-shell-bp/
Does the EV clean revolution include fossil fuel dinosaurs like Shell and
BP?
February 16th, 2019  For the next one to three years, non-Tesla electric car
sales are going to be slow. ... Back to charging and the cynical oil and gas
perspective, these companies ...
https://i1.wp.com/redgreenandblue.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Greenlots_LAPD_IMG_4359-768x512-1.jpg?resize=600%2C400


https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/16/fossil-vehicle-sales-are-officially-now-decreasing-in-china-europe-us/
Boom! Fossil Vehicle Sales Are Officially Now Decreasing In China, Europe, &
USA ...
February 16th, 2019  Sales of fossil fuelled vehicles are now on the decline
in the world's three largest auto markets, and being replaced by electric
vehicles. Fossil car sales will only ...
https://cleantechnica.com/files/2014/03/5543835085_26a8a47275_b.jpg


https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Is-This-The-Tipping-Point-For-Electric-Vehicles.html
Is This The Tipping Point For Electric Vehicles?
Feb 16, 2019  A new report by McKinsey forecasts a rapid switch from gas
guzzlers to electric vehicles on the world's roads will be boosted by the
plummeting costs of owning ...


https://www.tabnak.ir/fa/news/879305/brent-crude-oil-slips-away-from-2019-high-after-china-reports-car-sales-drop
Brent crude oil slips away from 2019 high after China reports car sales drop
18 February 2019  So-called new energy vehicle sales in January, which
include electric vehicles, registered a 140 percent increase, underscoring
expectations that oil demand from cars may peak in China in the coming ...




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 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: Ovshinsky was used/played/taken: ... fossil buy-in

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In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
It was 1992 and it’s called the US Advanced Battery Consortium.

https://www.uscar.org/guest/teams/12/U-S-Advanced-Battery-Consortium-LLC



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 18, 2019, at 9:44 PM, brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> [ref
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Oil-utilities-buying-up-EVSE-net-charging-fossil-buy-in-tp4692843p4692874.html
> ]
>
> David said> ... Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM ... <
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=nimh+ovshinsky+sold+gm
> ... Ovshinsky ... decision to sell to GM had been naive ...
>
> Long before the internet
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet#Rise_of_the_global_Internet_(late_1980s/early_1990s_onward)
> I would read through tons of paper media on Ovshinsky's efforts to make
> Ovonic (NiMH baterry) a success.
>
> I differ from Willie, IMO, ALL automakers & oil/fossil were in cahoots to
> maintain their incessant ice profit orgy (not just GM, though they are the
> worst).
>
> (section of Willie's page link)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries#General_Motors_and_the_US_Auto_Battery_Consortium
> ... Ovshinsky stated that in the early 1990s, the auto industry created the
> US Auto Battery Consortium (USABC) to stifle the development of electric
> vehicle technology by preventing the dissemination of knowledge about
> Ovshinky's battery-related patents to the public through the California Air
> Resources Board (CARB).
>
> According to Ovshinsky, the auto industry falsely suggested that NiMH
> technology was not yet ready for widespread use in road cars. Members of the
> USABC, including General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, threatened to take
> legal action against Ovshinsky if he continued to promote NiMH's potential
> for use in BEVs, and if he continued to lend test batteries to Solectria, a
> start-up electric vehicle maker that was not part of the USABC. The Big
> Three car companies argued that his behavior violated their exclusive rights
> to the battery technology, because they had matched a federal government
> grant given to Ovonics to develop NiMH technology. Critics argue that the
> Big Three were more interested in convincing CARB members that electric
> vehicles were not technologically and commercially viable.
>
> In 1994, General Motors acquired a controlling interest in Ovonics's battery
> development and manufacture, including patents controlling the manufacture
> of large NiMH batteries. The original intent of the equity alliance was to
> develop NiMH batteries for GM's EV1 BEV. Sales of GM-Ovonics batteries were
> later taken over by GM manager and critic of CARB John Williams, leading
> Ovshinsky to wonder whether his decision to sell to GM had been naive. The
> EV1 program was shut down by GM before the new NiMH battery could be
> commercialized, despite field tests that indicated the Ovonics battery
> extended the EV1's range to over 150 miles ...
>
> Darryl cynicism is warranted. Though we (the public) can't do much about it,
> we should keep our eye of those fat-profit-takers, and scream bloody murder
> (on the internet) when they step out of line.
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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Aggressive EV market-share battle: fossil buy-in

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https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/194002/oil-majors-to-be-more-aggressive-in-electric-car-market-race-report-claims/
Oil majors to be ‘more aggressive’ in electric car market race, report
claims
05/03/2019  David McPhee

[video  flash]
Markings on the road indicate a parking area for electric vehicles (EV) to
use charging stations in London, U.K., on Friday, Aug. 4, 2017. The U.K.
government plans to invest more than 800 million pounds ($1 billion) in new
driverless and zero-emission vehicle technology as it seeks to boost its
economy while leaving the European Union. Photographer: Simon
Dawson/Bloomberg

Oil and gas majors are likely to be “more aggressive” in the race to win the
battle for electric vehicle (EV) market supremacy, according to a new
report.

A new report by Standard and Poor’s (S&P) Global Ratings claims that while
utility companies have set strong targets in the EV market, “so have oil
majors”.

The study adds that utility firms will face stiff competition from big
European oil firms who will employ more “aggressive strategies”.

S&P claim European oil majors have “strong arguments” for involvement in the
sector.

The report points to oil firms “solid experience in retail activities” and
following acquisitions, increasingly in power supply.

In December, energy giant Shell has announced it was throwing its weight
behind renewable energy in Scotland with the introduction of three electric
charge points at locations around the country.

Charging docks will be placed at service stations in Aberdeen, Glasgow and
Dunblane in a move which rolls out an already well established initiative,
Shell Recharge, north of the border following the project success in
England.

The new report adds that big companies also have extensive experience of
managing long-term projects, while having the financial means to meet the
requirements of the sector.

It also claims changes in the market will move quickly, as the rollout of
charging stations grown “quickly” leading up to 2020.

The report adds that: “European oil majors have also accelerated their
investments in electric vehicles, with a changed mindset.

“They initially invested to better understand the energy transition. Now
they have a stronger need to protect and grow shareholder value”.
[© energyvoice.com]



+
http://www.dirtywheel.com/news/2318/this-is-how-to-built-your-own-electric-car
This is How to Built Your Own Electric Car!
2019-02-25  In the early years of the millennium, the concept of "electric
car" was not so far being just a dream, but today ...
https://youtu.be/797RM0_in2w




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