PacTracker users

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PacTracker users

Gerald Wagner
Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I like the idea and want to
install one on my truck.  I am wondering about Quality, user friendliness,
and company stability.   Any comments?

Jerry
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Re: PacTracker users

Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)
Hi Jerry,

Matt Graham and I got one and installed it on Joule Injected. Matt has
been testing it out there and it has been working great. Matt has been
very happy with it. Quality has been good and the folks at PakTrakr have
been good to work with.

If you email Matt, I'm sure he will be happy to answer any questions you
have on it.

Hope that helps.

Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA

Gerald Wagner wrote:

> Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I like the idea and want to
> install one on my truck.  I am wondering about Quality, user friendliness,
> and company stability.   Any comments?
>
> Jerry
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: PacTracker users

Mike.B
I've been beta testing the PakTrakr from early on, and
have had great success with it.  The company is always
ready to help, and takes suggestions for updates etc,
great.    I've seen where also a couple of guys are
working on a GUI for the PakTrakr's serial output
data, to be sent live to an onboard carPC.  

I wouldn't give my unit back to them if they asked.

M.Barkley
www.texomaev.com



--- "Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Jerry,
>
> Matt Graham and I got one and installed it on Joule
> Injected. Matt has
> been testing it out there and it has been working
> great. Matt has been
> very happy with it. Quality has been good and the
> folks at PakTrakr have
> been good to work with.
>
> If you email Matt, I'm sure he will be happy to
> answer any questions you
> have on it.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Shawn Waggoner
> Florida EAA
>
> Gerald Wagner wrote:
> > Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I
> like the idea and want to
> > install one on my truck.  I am wondering about
> Quality, user friendliness,
> > and company stability.   Any comments?
> >
> > Jerry
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: PacTracker users

Gerald Wagner
Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments,   Jerry

On 8/9/07, Michael Barkley <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I've been beta testing the PakTrakr from early on, and
> have had great success with it.  The company is always
> ready to help, and takes suggestions for updates etc,
> great.    I've seen where also a couple of guys are
> working on a GUI for the PakTrakr's serial output
> data, to be sent live to an onboard carPC.
>
> I wouldn't give my unit back to them if they asked.
>
> M.Barkley
> www.texomaev.com
>
>
>
> --- "Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jerry,
> >
> > Matt Graham and I got one and installed it on Joule
> > Injected. Matt has
> > been testing it out there and it has been working
> > great. Matt has been
> > very happy with it. Quality has been good and the
> > folks at PakTrakr have
> > been good to work with.
> >
> > If you email Matt, I'm sure he will be happy to
> > answer any questions you
> > have on it.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Shawn Waggoner
> > Florida EAA
> >
> > Gerald Wagner wrote:
> > > Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I
> > like the idea and want to
> > > install one on my truck.  I am wondering about
> > Quality, user friendliness,
> > > and company stability.   Any comments?
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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Re: PacTracker users

Deb Hollenback
In reply to this post by Gerald Wagner
Perhaps this site would be useful to you...

http://www.evconvert.com/article/dougs-paktrakr-with-zaurus

Debbie

--- Gerald Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I like the idea and
> want to
> install one on my truck.  I am wondering about Quality, user
> friendliness,
> and company stability.   Any comments?
>
> Jerry
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>





       
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Re: PacTracker users

Ryan Bohm
In reply to this post by Gerald Wagner
Hi Gerald and all (wow, my first post in quite a few months!),
> Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I like the idea and want to
> install one on my truck.  I am wondering about Quality, user friendliness,
> and company stability.   Any comments?
I caught wind of the PakTrakr system a little while back, and
immediately got one with the current sensor and RS-232 output.  I was
really impressed, especially for the price.  They are constantly working
on improvements too, so it's only going to get better.  My only concern
(which holds for all great EV product manufacturers) is that they will
somehow disappear!  Although with things moving the way they are, that
doesn't seem to be the trend.

Anyhow, I started stocking the PakTrakr.  Several closer pictures and
much of what PakTrakr has to offer can be seen here:

http://www.evsource.com/tls_paktrakr.php

-Ryan
--

- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[hidden email]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781

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Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Ian Hooper-2
Hi all,

So over the last couple of weeks, I've been testing these PHET  
PE-1150 lithium cells, and I just have to say.. they're not nearly as  
good as PHET claim. For the benefit of others, I've written up the  
results here:

http://www.zeva.com.au/phet/

In short, don't buy them if you want higher than 2C. *sigh*

Well, if anyone can point me towards some LiFePO4s that can handle  
10C continuous (and that I can actually buy.. are you listening,  
A123!?), do let me know.

Ian Hooper
[hidden email]

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Re: Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Jack Murray
Ian, unfortunate the results are not good for PHET cells,
what are the costs you've been quoted?  Perhaps with a suitable
capacitor bank, the low discharge rate can be OK, if their cost can
justify the additional cost of the capacitors.

Still looks to me that the IB NiMH cells are the best cost-effective
choice for 10C discharge batteries for EVs.

Jack

Ian Hooper wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> So over the last couple of weeks, I've been testing these PHET  
> PE-1150 lithium cells, and I just have to say.. they're not nearly as  
> good as PHET claim. For the benefit of others, I've written up the  
> results here:
>
> http://www.zeva.com.au/phet/
>
> In short, don't buy them if you want higher than 2C. *sigh*
>
> Well, if anyone can point me towards some LiFePO4s that can handle  
> 10C continuous (and that I can actually buy.. are you listening,  
> A123!?), do let me know.
>
> Ian Hooper
> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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Re: PacTracker users

Matt Graham-3
In reply to this post by Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)
Hey everyone,

As Shawn indicated, I've been very satisfied with PakTrakr and KJHall, the
manufacturer. There's only one of the 600EV units installed in JI, so only
six of its 25 batteries are being monitored. The first in the series
provides power for the display unit. I really need to pick up three more of
the remotes to finish off the pack. Yes, I know that 4 units X 6 batteries
equals only 24, but Ken has made mention of a 7-battery remote, which is
hopefully coming out soon.

Shawn and I also picked up the current sensor and the data cable. Now the
current sensor is a bit tight for beefier cable. There was no way I was
getting 3/0 cable through it! For a daily driver with more reasonable
battery cable it probably won't be an issue. Also, they only go up to 500
amps, I believe, so that kind of puts a cramp on the Z2K!

I did notice some abnormal data (occasional bad characters), but it
coincided with some of the peppier acceleration periods. I had made no
attempt to relocate the data cable away from my longer temporary jumper of
smaller gauge battery cable I used for the current sensor, so I'm pretty
confident that was the culprit.

Since Joule Injected has been out of commission lately, I haven't had a
chance to get back into it. When it's back on the road you should definitely
see more posts about this nice setup from Ken and the rest of the folks at
KJHall!

Matt Graham
300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
http://www.jouleinjected.com


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:42 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PacTracker users

Hi Jerry,

Matt Graham and I got one and installed it on Joule Injected. Matt has
been testing it out there and it has been working great. Matt has been
very happy with it. Quality has been good and the folks at PakTrakr have
been good to work with.

If you email Matt, I'm sure he will be happy to answer any questions you
have on it.

Hope that helps.

Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA

Gerald Wagner wrote:

> Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I like the idea and want to
> install one on my truck.  I am wondering about Quality, user friendliness,
> and company stability.   Any comments?
>
> Jerry
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: PacTracker users

harry henderson

can the current sensor be used on the motor?
can there be more than one current sensor?
what is the accuracy of the hall effect vs the shunt?

if i have a 48 volt system of 12 12 volt batteries
[three in parallel, four groups of 3 parallel] can i
just monitor the four parallel groups or do i need to
monitor all 12 batteries?

--- Matt Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> As Shawn indicated, I've been very satisfied with
> PakTrakr and KJHall, the
> manufacturer. There's only one of the 600EV units
> installed in JI, so only
> six of its 25 batteries are being monitored. The
> first in the series
> provides power for the display unit. I really need
> to pick up three more of
> the remotes to finish off the pack. Yes, I know that
> 4 units X 6 batteries
> equals only 24, but Ken has made mention of a
> 7-battery remote, which is
> hopefully coming out soon.
>
> Shawn and I also picked up the current sensor and
> the data cable. Now the
> current sensor is a bit tight for beefier cable.
> There was no way I was
> getting 3/0 cable through it! For a daily driver
> with more reasonable
> battery cable it probably won't be an issue. Also,
> they only go up to 500
> amps, I believe, so that kind of puts a cramp on the
> Z2K!
>
> I did notice some abnormal data (occasional bad
> characters), but it
> coincided with some of the peppier acceleration
> periods. I had made no
> attempt to relocate the data cable away from my
> longer temporary jumper of
> smaller gauge battery cable I used for the current
> sensor, so I'm pretty
> confident that was the culprit.
>
> Since Joule Injected has been out of commission
> lately, I haven't had a
> chance to get back into it. When it's back on the
> road you should definitely
> see more posts about this nice setup from Ken and
> the rest of the folks at
> KJHall!
>
> Matt Graham
> 300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
> http://www.jouleinjected.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:42 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] PacTracker users
>
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Matt Graham and I got one and installed it on Joule
> Injected. Matt has
> been testing it out there and it has been working
> great. Matt has been
> very happy with it. Quality has been good and the
> folks at PakTrakr have
> been good to work with.
>
> If you email Matt, I'm sure he will be happy to
> answer any questions you
> have on it.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Shawn Waggoner
> Florida EAA
>
> Gerald Wagner wrote:
> > Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I
> like the idea and want to
> > install one on my truck.  I am wondering about
> Quality, user friendliness,
> > and company stability.   Any comments?
> >
> > Jerry
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman


       
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Re: PacTracker users

Mike Willmon-3
In reply to this post by Matt Graham-3
Did you say the main unit is powered on the first battery in the string.  Could it be that under high load the battery is sagging enough to make the PakTrakr brown out?  Can it be powerd from the 12V SLI battery?

Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Graham <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:19 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PacTracker users
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' <[hidden email]>

> Hey everyone,
>
> As Shawn indicated, I've been very satisfied with PakTrakr and
> KJHall, the
> manufacturer. There's only one of the 600EV units installed in JI,
> so only
> six of its 25 batteries are being monitored. The first in the series
> provides power for the display unit. I really need to pick up three
> more of
> the remotes to finish off the pack. Yes, I know that 4 units X 6
> batteriesequals only 24, but Ken has made mention of a 7-battery
> remote, which is
> hopefully coming out soon.
>
> Shawn and I also picked up the current sensor and the data cable.
> Now the
> current sensor is a bit tight for beefier cable. There was no way I
> wasgetting 3/0 cable through it! For a daily driver with more
> reasonablebattery cable it probably won't be an issue. Also, they
> only go up to 500
> amps, I believe, so that kind of puts a cramp on the Z2K!
>
> I did notice some abnormal data (occasional bad characters), but it
> coincided with some of the peppier acceleration periods. I had made no
> attempt to relocate the data cable away from my longer temporary
> jumper of
> smaller gauge battery cable I used for the current sensor, so I'm
> prettyconfident that was the culprit.
>
> Since Joule Injected has been out of commission lately, I haven't
> had a
> chance to get back into it. When it's back on the road you should
> definitelysee more posts about this nice setup from Ken and the
> rest of the folks at
> KJHall!
>
> Matt Graham
> 300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
> http://www.jouleinjected.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf
> Of Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:42 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] PacTracker users
>
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Matt Graham and I got one and installed it on Joule Injected. Matt
> has
> been testing it out there and it has been working great. Matt has
> been
> very happy with it. Quality has been good and the folks at PakTrakr
> have
> been good to work with.
>
> If you email Matt, I'm sure he will be happy to answer any
> questions you
> have on it.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Shawn Waggoner
> Florida EAA
>
> Gerald Wagner wrote:
> > Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I like the idea
> and want to
> > install one on my truck.  I am wondering about Quality, user
> friendliness,> and company stability.   Any comments?
> >
> > Jerry
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Re: Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Dan Frederiksen-2
In reply to this post by Ian Hooper-2
I was afraid of that. there probably is a reason why their spec sheets
doesn't say the high discharge rates they claim behind the scene. bastards
Marcin will probably arrive at the same conclusion despite his initial
enthusiasm.

Yet another hope squashed

Good work though

Dan


Ian Hooper wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> So over the last couple of weeks, I've been testing these PHET  
> PE-1150 lithium cells, and I just have to say.. they're not nearly as  
> good as PHET claim. For the benefit of others, I've written up the  
> results here:
>
> http://www.zeva.com.au/phet/
>
> In short, don't buy them if you want higher than 2C. *sigh*
>
> Well, if anyone can point me towards some LiFePO4s that can handle  
> 10C continuous (and that I can actually buy.. are you listening,  
> A123!?), do let me know.
>
> Ian Hooper
> [hidden email]
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>  

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Re: PacTracker users

Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)
In reply to this post by Mike Willmon-3
Yeah, given the high current draws and the current battery condition
(the current set of Orbitals have been pretty abused and are not holding
up to well) it may very well have been low voltage on the battery that
causes the issue. However, the PakTrakr is only test mounted and the odd
characters is most likely from noise/interference as Matt mentioned.
When the other monitors are installed the wiring will be addressed then.
It is currently in as a test to see how well the unit works. So far so
good! As far as using a separate battery, it is powered from the sense
leads themselves, not a separate input to the device - so it has to be
powered by the first battery.

Shawn Waggoner
FLEAA

MIKE WILLMON wrote:

> Did you say the main unit is powered on the first battery in the string.  Could it be that under high load the battery is sagging enough to make the PakTrakr brown out?  Can it be powerd from the 12V SLI battery?
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Matt Graham <[hidden email]>
> Date: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:19 am
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] PacTracker users
> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' <[hidden email]>
>
>> Hey everyone,
>>
>> As Shawn indicated, I've been very satisfied with PakTrakr and
>> KJHall, the
>> manufacturer. There's only one of the 600EV units installed in JI,
>> so only
>> six of its 25 batteries are being monitored. The first in the series
>> provides power for the display unit. I really need to pick up three
>> more of
>> the remotes to finish off the pack. Yes, I know that 4 units X 6
>> batteriesequals only 24, but Ken has made mention of a 7-battery
>> remote, which is
>> hopefully coming out soon.
>>
>> Shawn and I also picked up the current sensor and the data cable.
>> Now the
>> current sensor is a bit tight for beefier cable. There was no way I
>> wasgetting 3/0 cable through it! For a daily driver with more
>> reasonablebattery cable it probably won't be an issue. Also, they
>> only go up to 500
>> amps, I believe, so that kind of puts a cramp on the Z2K!
>>
>> I did notice some abnormal data (occasional bad characters), but it
>> coincided with some of the peppier acceleration periods. I had made no
>> attempt to relocate the data cable away from my longer temporary
>> jumper of
>> smaller gauge battery cable I used for the current sensor, so I'm
>> prettyconfident that was the culprit.
>>
>> Since Joule Injected has been out of commission lately, I haven't
>> had a
>> chance to get back into it. When it's back on the road you should
>> definitelysee more posts about this nice setup from Ken and the
>> rest of the folks at
>> KJHall!
>>
>> Matt Graham
>> 300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
>> http://www.jouleinjected.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> On Behalf
>> Of Shawn Waggoner (FLEAA)
>> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:42 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] PacTracker users
>>
>> Hi Jerry,
>>
>> Matt Graham and I got one and installed it on Joule Injected. Matt
>> has
>> been testing it out there and it has been working great. Matt has
>> been
>> very happy with it. Quality has been good and the folks at PakTrakr
>> have
>> been good to work with.
>>
>> If you email Matt, I'm sure he will be happy to answer any
>> questions you
>> have on it.
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>> Shawn Waggoner
>> Florida EAA
>>
>> Gerald Wagner wrote:
>>> Has anyone bought and installed a PacTracker.  I like the idea
>> and want to
>>> install one on my truck.  I am wondering about Quality, user
>> friendliness,> and company stability.   Any comments?
>>> Jerry
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Re: Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Marcin Ciosek
In reply to this post by Dan Frederiksen-2
Dan,

for me PHET are running just fine. I've replaced 50Ah Kokam's cells with 42
parallel blocks of 16850 1.2Ah and all I see is performance BOOST.

At least I've some EVs running and MANY Battery Packs operating with different
cells manufacturers. I event tested TS LFP cells recently and slowly
beginning to believe in their performance.

And what do you have?

Enjoy your miserable troll-life.

If anyone will be passing through Warsaw/Poland I invite him to visit and see
for himself our cars.

Marcin

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Re: Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Dan Frederiksen-2
so your data will be different from Ian Hooper's?
yours will show they work fine at 10C?

you said you have been testing. can we see the data?

Dan

Marcin Ciosek wrote:

> Dan,
>
> for me PHET are running just fine. I've replaced 50Ah Kokam's cells with 42
> parallel blocks of 16850 1.2Ah and all I see is performance BOOST.
>
> At least I've some EVs running and MANY Battery Packs operating with different
> cells manufacturers. I event tested TS LFP cells recently and slowly
> beginning to believe in their performance.
>
> And what do you have?
>
> Enjoy your miserable troll-life.
>
> If anyone will be passing through Warsaw/Poland I invite him to visit and see
> for himself our cars.
>
> Marcin
>
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>  

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Re: Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Ian Hooper-2
In reply to this post by Jack Murray
On 11/08/2007, at 3:00 AM, Jack Murray wrote:

> Ian, unfortunate the results are not good for PHET cells,
> what are the costs you've been quoted?  Perhaps with a suitable
> capacitor bank, the low discharge rate can be OK, if their cost can
> justify the additional cost of the capacitors.

Yeah I guess we should remember that lead acid batteries show worse  
Peukerts between C20 and 1C than these do between 2C and 4C. Up to 2C  
there was a negligible capacity drop. Most people with a decent sized  
pack drive around under 1C and only use 4C for short periods (while  
accelerating), so it would have to be said that these are still much  
better than lead acid. (And they're about 1/3rd the weight and  
supposedly last 4x as long.)

I considered a capacitor bank to boost power but it is more expense  
and complication! I just want my 10C+ batteries.

Pricing on these was US$2.80 per cell, which works out at 80c per  
watt hour. (ThunderSky are currently 62.5c/Wh and A123s are $1.40/Wh  
via DeWalt packs, for reference.)

> Still looks to me that the IB NiMH cells are the best cost-effective
> choice for 10C discharge batteries for EVs.

Yeah it's a real pity these didn't meet specifications. I'm targeting  
a high performance conversion and <10C just won't do. I'm  
communicating with PHET about the results in case there's a flaw in  
my testing or something. (e.g perhaps they sent me the wrong cells...  
if only)

NiMHs do seem to offer the power needed but there are too many issues  
with paralleling Nickel chemistry batts, and their cycle life is far  
shorter than LiFePO4. Low total cost of ownership for LiFePO4s was  
the clincher for me.

Maybe I will end up pulling apart 100x DeWalt packs yet..

-Ian

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Re: Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Dan Frederiksen-2
just talked to Ian
a A123 cell test is coming up for comparison to the phet cells to ensure
we are not unfairly dismissing the phets

Dan

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Re: Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Bugzilla from kaidokert@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Ian Hooper-2
On 8/11/07, Ian Hooper <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/08/2007, at 3:00 AM, Jack Murray wrote:
>
> > Ian, unfortunate the results are not good for PHET cells,
> > what are the costs you've been quoted?  Perhaps with a suitable
> > capacitor bank, the low discharge rate can be OK, if their cost can
> > justify the additional cost of the capacitors.
>
> Yeah I guess we should remember that lead acid batteries show worse
> Peukerts between C20 and 1C than these do between 2C and 4C. Up to 2C
> there was a negligible capacity drop. Most people with a decent sized
> pack drive around under 1C and only use 4C for short periods (while
> accelerating), so it would have to be said that these are still much
> better than lead acid. (And they're about 1/3rd the weight and
> supposedly last 4x as long.)
>

Thank you for publishing this data, its the first independent testing
of these cells that i have seen.
Would you be able to do an automated life cycle test on one of the
cells at 2C ? I.e. a few thousand charge/discharge cycles ? If the
cells could reliably take a few thousand cycles, they might still work
out to be economical solution for not so high performance conversions.

-kert

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Re: Underwhelming results from PHET cell testing

Ian Hooper-2
Yes, I plan to do cycle testing with the cells, though it will take  
week and weeks to rack up a few thousand cycles! I was originally  
hoping to do 4C/10C cycles to make it faster, but it seems they won't  
handle that too well.

Also, it is possible that I spoke to soon regarding the poor  
performance.. I was doing some more testing today, and noticed quite  
high inefficiency running two cells in parallel at the 4C rate for a  
single cell, i.e each cell should have been discharging at only 2C  
which should have been fine for them, yet I recorded a low 75%  
coulombic efficiency and the both cells did get warm (as if they were  
wasting power), which I don't quite understand.

So, I suspect there may be something going wrong with my test rig,  
but I'm not sure what/why/how yet.. I'll keep you posted :)

-Ian

PS: I've also got a few sample 18650 LiFePO4s coming over from a  
Chinese company called Huanyu, which cost $0.55/Wh instead of $0.80/
Wh for these PHETs - significant difference! Their power rating is  
lower though, they claim 3C continuous and 10C peak - but if that's  
realistic, they might be a great option for those not needing huge  
amounts of power.

On 11/08/2007, at 6:27 PM, Kaido Kert wrote:

> On 8/11/07, Ian Hooper <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 11/08/2007, at 3:00 AM, Jack Murray wrote:
>>
>>> Ian, unfortunate the results are not good for PHET cells,
>>> what are the costs you've been quoted?  Perhaps with a suitable
>>> capacitor bank, the low discharge rate can be OK, if their cost can
>>> justify the additional cost of the capacitors.
>>
>> Yeah I guess we should remember that lead acid batteries show worse
>> Peukerts between C20 and 1C than these do between 2C and 4C. Up to 2C
>> there was a negligible capacity drop. Most people with a decent sized
>> pack drive around under 1C and only use 4C for short periods (while
>> accelerating), so it would have to be said that these are still much
>> better than lead acid. (And they're about 1/3rd the weight and
>> supposedly last 4x as long.)
>>
>
> Thank you for publishing this data, its the first independent testing
> of these cells that i have seen.
> Would you be able to do an automated life cycle test on one of the
> cells at 2C ? I.e. a few thousand charge/discharge cycles ? If the
> cells could reliably take a few thousand cycles, they might still work
> out to be economical solution for not so high performance conversions.
>
> -kert
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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