Permanent conversion fixed costs?

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Permanent conversion fixed costs?

Ryan Stotts
Will a $5,000 Zilla(AC or DC) always be $5,000?  For example; it will
never be $3,000?


Will a $5,000 motor(AC or DC) always be $5,000?


On one hand, those two items are potentially one time purchases.  I'm
still adjusting to the idea of spending $10k on two items.

How about batteries?  Will A123 batteries ever be price competitive with lead?

The price of the pack is one thing.  How about that pesky BMS?  Will
it ever be ~.50 cents a module?

What's a good in time estimate on the BMS cost for a 336v pack of A123s?

The high maintenance, noise, and pollution of my ICE vehicles really
makes me want to convert them.  But the money..

Now if I won the lottery, price would be a non issue(of course).  But
I'm just a $20/hr part time aircraft mechanic, part time floor
sweeper(someone that gets paid more then I do thinks it's a great idea
to have a hangar full of $20-$25/hr aircraft mechanics sweep the
floor... a LOT and often!).

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Re: Permanent conversion fixed costs?

Alan Brinkman
Ryan,

No one replied on list to your message, and I am a novice, but I'll take
a stab and then see who corrects me with a better take.

Lead acid batteries are one item I was expecting or hoping to decrease
in cost to help with my project.  The price of lead went up, and the
retail cost of batteries went up more than the cost increase of the
lead.  You really have to search around for a proven model of lead acid
battery that performs in EV use, deep cycle, and treat it well, or you
burn up your pack and money.

Lithium batteries, because of demand, short supply, quality issues, new
uses from big companies taking up manufacturing capacity, etc. are not
likely to drop in price as many would hope.  It may be some time before
production is more standardized, more quality, and competition drives
prices down.

The cost of high performance controllers, because of the intricate
matching of parts, attention to detail, technical plan, and intense
labor, is not going to decrease.  Increasing input costs will likely
push the prices up over time.

Motors for an EV are fairly specific and not widely produced.  The tie
in with DC motors for forklifts and materials handling keeps these units
available and reasonable.  Several manufacturers produce quite similar
DC motors and pricing is good.  I worry that if the lift industry moves
to AC motors, then DC will be hard to find, repair, etc...  Then again,
you will be able to find an AC setup cheaper to drop in your favorite
glider.

Some good news....

A previously built EV is still your best value.  Make sure the
components are well matched, and will do the job for you, or that you
can afford to make the necessary updates to get what you need.

Flooded lead acid batteries are the best value in general.

There is more talk around the world of companies producing battery
powered vehicles, maybe in short runs at first, but it all helps.  Maybe
one day their parts will be available to builders.

My plan is to get my EV built and running, then save enough $$$ at $75 a
tank full of gas to be able to go to the top notch sources and get a few
parts that need replacement and have a super machine.

Until then, dumpsters beware.

I see you are an aircraft mechanic.  One of the best mechanics in my
area (retired now) was an aircraft mechanic.  He would get upset when
someone would use the incorrect screwdriver on the head of a screw.  You
have a good resource in your skills and knowledge.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:40 PM
To: EVDL
Subject: [EVDL] Permanent conversion fixed costs?

Will a $5,000 Zilla(AC or DC) always be $5,000?  For example; it will
never be $3,000?


Will a $5,000 motor(AC or DC) always be $5,000?


On one hand, those two items are potentially one time purchases.  I'm
still adjusting to the idea of spending $10k on two items.

How about batteries?  Will A123 batteries ever be price competitive with
lead?

The price of the pack is one thing.  How about that pesky BMS?  Will
it ever be ~.50 cents a module?

What's a good in time estimate on the BMS cost for a 336v pack of A123s?

The high maintenance, noise, and pollution of my ICE vehicles really
makes me want to convert them.  But the money..

Now if I won the lottery, price would be a non issue(of course).  But
I'm just a $20/hr part time aircraft mechanic, part time floor
sweeper(someone that gets paid more then I do thinks it's a great idea
to have a hangar full of $20-$25/hr aircraft mechanics sweep the
floor... a LOT and often!).

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Re: Permanent conversion fixed costs?

Ryan Stotts
> A previously built EV is still your best value.

For certain it is.

I was wanting to build a White Zombie type EV.  2 motors turned into
one from Jim Husted and the biggest Zilla and a serious battery pack.
Either 60 leads like john has or an A123 pack.

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Re: Permanent conversion fixed costs?

Bob Rice-2

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Permanent conversion fixed costs?


>> A previously built EV is still your best value.
>
> For certain it is.
>
> I was wanting to build a White Zombie type EV.  2 motors turned into
> one from Jim Husted and the biggest Zilla and a serious battery pack.
> Either 60 leads like john has or an A123 pack.
>
> Easy enough. JW Broke all the stuff as needed! How DEEP are your
> pockets?Thinking a hellova Zoombie Beater would be a Sunrise " Funny Car"
> Lighter and a hellova more aero than Zombie, too.Hang in there!

   Bob

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Re: Permanent conversion fixed costs?

Bob Bath
In reply to this post by Alan Brinkman

--- Alan Brinkman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ryan,
>
> No one replied on list to your message, and I am a
> novice, but I'll take
> a stab and then see who corrects me with a better
> take.
>
> Lead acid batteries are one item I was expecting or
> hoping to decrease
> in cost to help with my project.  The price of lead
> went up, and the
> retail cost of batteries went up more than the cost
> increase of the
> lead.  You really have to search around for a proven
> model of lead acid
> battery that performs in EV use, deep cycle, and
> treat it well, or you
> burn up your pack and money.
>
> Lithium batteries, because of demand, short supply,
> quality issues, new
> uses from big companies taking up manufacturing
> capacity, etc. are not
> likely to drop in price as many would hope.  It may
> be some time before
> production is more standardized, more quality, and
> competition drives
> prices down.
>
> The cost of high performance controllers, because of
> the intricate
> matching of parts, attention to detail, technical
> plan, and intense
> labor, is not going to decrease.  Increasing input
> costs will likely
> push the prices up over time.
>
> Motors for an EV are fairly specific and not widely
> produced.  The tie
> in with DC motors for forklifts and materials
> handling keeps these units
> available and reasonable.  Several manufacturers
> produce quite similar
> DC motors and pricing is good.  I worry that if the
> lift industry moves
> to AC motors, then DC will be hard to find, repair,
> etc...  Then again,
> you will be able to find an AC setup cheaper to drop
> in your favorite
> glider.
>
> Some good news....
>
> A previously built EV is still your best value.
> Make sure the
> components are well matched, and will do the job for
> you, or that you
> can afford to make the necessary updates to get what
> you need.
>
> Flooded lead acid batteries are the best value in
> general.
>
> There is more talk around the world of companies
> producing battery
> powered vehicles, maybe in short runs at first, but
> it all helps.  Maybe
> one day their parts will be available to builders.
>
> My plan is to get my EV built and running, then save
> enough $$$ at $75 a
> tank full of gas to be able to go to the top notch
> sources and get a few
> parts that need replacement and have a super
> machine.
>
> Until then, dumpsters beware.
>
> I see you are an aircraft mechanic.  One of the best
> mechanics in my
> area (retired now) was an aircraft mechanic.  He
> would get upset when
> someone would use the incorrect screwdriver on the
> head of a screw.  You
> have a good resource in your skills and knowledge.
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:40 PM
> To: EVDL
> Subject: [EVDL] Permanent conversion fixed costs?
>
> Will a $5,000 Zilla(AC or DC) always be $5,000?  For
> example; it will
> never be $3,000?
>
>
> Will a $5,000 motor(AC or DC) always be $5,000?
>
>
> On one hand, those two items are potentially one
> time purchases.  I'm
> still adjusting to the idea of spending $10k on two
> items.
>
> How about batteries?  Will A123 batteries ever be
> price competitive with
> lead?
>
> The price of the pack is one thing.  How about that
> pesky BMS?  Will
> it ever be ~.50 cents a module?
>
> What's a good in time estimate on the BMS cost for a
> 336v pack of A123s?
>
> The high maintenance, noise, and pollution of my ICE
> vehicles really
> makes me want to convert them.  But the money..
>
> Now if I won the lottery, price would be a non
> issue(of course).  But
> I'm just a $20/hr part time aircraft mechanic, part
> time floor
> sweeper(someone that gets paid more then I do thinks
> it's a great idea
> to have a hangar full of $20-$25/hr aircraft
> mechanics sweep the
> floor... a LOT and often!).
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html          ____
                     __/__|__\ __
  =D-------/    -  -         \
                     'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?


       
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat?
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/

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Re: Permanent conversion fixed costs?

Timothy Balcer
In reply to this post by Ryan Stotts
Ahh.. a White Zombie fan :)

Unless you can't fit it into your donor, a transwarp 9 and a warp 9
pair would work about as well as a siamese setup, and is stock, off
the shelf.

The Zilla 2K with all the goodies.. well, that's gonna be costly no
matter what :) Thats a seriously engineered piece of equipment!

For racing you'd need the best AGMs you could lay your hands on, and
WZ used Hawker Cyclons from what I remember. Those are also very
pricey, but the good news is you don't need 2000 lbs of em to race :)
I've seen some folks say the 12D2000 EaglePicher batteries are also
pretty good, however I can't seem to find availability information on
them. I keep meaning to ring up EaglePicher about it.

Then you're gonna need a custom rear end, detroit lockers, racing
tires, .. etc etc etc etc...

Getting  to the track in a decent conversion is better than waiting
for some fictional perfect combination of money, time, parts and
inspiration! Mr. Wayland did all of this over years and years of
little improvements. Now people are looking at what he did and are
starting to come up with racing machines that begin to be able to
compete with him.

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Re: Permanent conversion fixed costs?

FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
In reply to this post by Ryan Stotts
try a 280zx with 4 in hub pmlflight link motors and lion batteries to suite pml will also sell the controller if needed    better have grand canyon pockets
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ryan Stotts<mailto:[hidden email]>
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[hidden email]>
  Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Permanent conversion fixed costs?


  > A previously built EV is still your best value.

  For certain it is.

  I was wanting to build a White Zombie type EV.  2 motors turned into
  one from Jim Husted and the biggest Zilla and a serious battery pack.
  Either 60 leads like john has or an A123 pack.

  _______________________________________________
  For subscription options, see
  http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev