RE: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

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RE: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

leprican22
I am using a 1990 Honda CRX. I found this page on an 87 CRX and the range, speed, and cost was well within my specs! I think i may be able to save some money by doing all of the fabrication myself. What do you think? Please keep in mind that I am new to the EV world any info I recieve is very appreciated!

Curb Weight  Aprox. 2450 lbs. after conversion
About the same as mine
 
Cost of parts  Approx. $5,500
Will hopefully save here by doing fabrications myself. I also have access to certain materials,( wire, terminals, etc) at little to no cost. So what I save here I will be willing to put in other areas if need be to obtain my range 

Batteries  120 volt main pack:
10 Trojan 5SHP  In '91 this was a high voltage pack!
Any suggestions here. Anything better that will allow me to keep the 40+ range? 

Motor  Advanced DC 7 inch.  
Thinking of a little bigger motor but again, up for suggestions.

Controler  Kodiak C600 by Aubern Scientific  200 volts max (96-175 nominal)
???? 

Charger  K&W on board 110 volt A/C  
Auxiliary Power  Sevcon - DC/DC converter with
in-line motorcycle battery  M/C batery functions as voltage balast  
Power Brakes  12 volt Auxiliary vacuum pump  

The Original Web Page of the 87 Honda CRX EV: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html 
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Re: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

Peter VanDerWal
$5,000 was a pretty common price for converting a vehicle in the early
90s.  These days it's about twice that.

Trying to convert a car for less now than it cost 17 years ago will be
challenging.

> Cost of parts  Approx. $5,500
> Will hopefully save here by doing fabrications myself. I also have access
> to

Most folks do a large part of the fab work themselves.  The exception is
the motor to transmission adapter, which will set you back about $1,000,
most folks suck it up and buy these rather than build their own.
It's possible to build one yourself for perhaps 1/2 that price (or less if
you are good at scrounging), but it's a bit tricky.

> certain materials,( wire, terminals, etc) at little to no cost. So what I
> save here I will be willing to put in other areas if need be to obtain my
> range
Well that's good, that will save you a couple hundred.

> Batteries  120 volt main pack:
> 10 Trojan 5SHP  In '91 this was a high voltage pack!
> Any suggestions here. Anything better that will allow me to keep the 40+
> range?

Trojan T-105s or USBatteries equivelent are the best bang for the buck and
lowest lifetime costs.  40 miles range is going to cost about
$2,000-$2,500 in batteries.
It's possible to buy cheaper batteries, but if you have to replace them
every year, it will cost you more in the long run.

> Motor  Advanced DC 7 inch.
> Thinking of a little bigger motor but again, up for suggestions.

An ADC 6.7" will set you back $1,000, or $1500 for an 8".
If you're scrounging you usually take what you can find.

> Controler  Kodiak C600 by Aubern Scientific  200 volts max (96-175
> nominal)
> ????

Not available anymore.
For your requirements you're going to want at least a 120V controller.
The start at about $1400 for the decent ones.
You can get a Kelly controller for less than this, but from all reports
they aren't worth the money.

> Charger  K&W on board 110 volt A/C
I'm not sure who sells these anymore, probably cost you around $800 to $900
that's about what the cheap chargers are going for these days.
I think you can get a Zivan for about $500

> Auxiliary Power  Sevcon - DC/DC converter with
Again, not sure who sells Sevcon, but a DC-DC will probably set you back
about $200

> Power Brakes  12 volt Auxiliary vacuum pump

You can get these from a Junk yard.  Quite a few ordinary cars used them.

You can try looking on the EV trading post and see if you can find any
good deals there:
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/


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Re: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

Jack Murray
In reply to this post by leprican22
Isn't $5,500 more than $3,000-$4,000 budget?
And this was 1991 dollars, it is 2008 now.
double your budget $6,000-$8,000, and you can build
something that works, not sure you can get 40 miles
though.  A CRX can't handle so much weight, many
grossly overload their cars with battery weight, not
safe and will tear up the car over time.
I note I just sold my 20 mile Fiero for $7,600,
probably $5-6,000 in parts and billions of hours
labor.
Jack

--- leprican22 <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I am using a 1990 Honda CRX. I found this page on an
> 87 CRX and the range,
> speed, and cost was well within my specs! I think i
> may be able to save some
> money by doing all of the fabrication myself. What
> do you think? Please keep
> in mind that I am new to the EV world any info I
> recieve is very
> appreciated!
>
> Curb Weight  Aprox. 2450 lbs. after conversion
> About the same as mine
>  
> Cost of parts  Approx. $5,500
> Will hopefully save here by doing fabrications
> myself. I also have access to
> certain materials,( wire, terminals, etc) at little
> to no cost. So what I
> save here I will be willing to put in other areas if
> need be to obtain my
> range  
>
> Batteries  120 volt main pack:
> 10 Trojan 5SHP  In '91 this was a high voltage pack!
> Any suggestions here. Anything better that will
> allow me to keep the 40+
> range?  
>
> Motor  Advanced DC 7 inch.  
> Thinking of a little bigger motor but again, up for
> suggestions.
>
> Controler  Kodiak C600 by Aubern Scientific  200
> volts max (96-175 nominal)
> ????  
>
> Charger  K&W on board 110 volt A/C  
> Auxiliary Power  Sevcon - DC/DC converter with
> in-line motorcycle battery  M/C batery functions as
> voltage balast  
> Power Brakes  12 volt Auxiliary vacuum pump  
>
> The Original Web Page of the 87 Honda CRX EV:
> http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html
> http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html 
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://www.nabble.com/RE%3A-What-can-I-do-with-a-%243k-4k-budget--tp18535647p18535647.html

> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


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Re: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

leprican22
 <A CRX can't handle so much weight, many
grossly overload their cars with battery weight, not
safe and will tear up the car over time.

<b>Not really, I plan on removing a lot of weight from the car before I start. I have been in the import scene for a long time so as far as weight is concerned, I can def. get around that.
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Re: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

jerryd
In reply to this post by leprican22

            Hi Lep and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: leprican22 <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:50:45 -0700 (PDT)

>I am using a 1990 Honda CRX. I found this page on an 87 CRX
>and the range, speed, and cost was well within my specs! I
>think i may be able to save some money by doing all of the
>fabrication myself. What do you think? Please keep in mind
>that I am new to the EV world any info I recieve is very
>appreciated!
>
>Curb Weight  Aprox. 2450 lbs. after conversion
>About the same as mine

          I believe SHP's were 86lbs, really 8vdc cells but
more of them gives about 860lbs batts. If this is true then
it as a glider would weight 1600lbs which is very good. Make
sure your's is the same before deciding what to use. You may
need to go to 96vdc if you weigh more.
           So 12 T-125's/145's would be about the same
weight, better cap, life, lower costs.
            If I seem to be hung up on 72vdc it's because
used with 36vdc forklift motors on lighter EV's is very
inexpensive because old GC chargers can easily be made into
good 72vdc flooded chargers. I make mine from dead/live GC
chargers for about $30 mol. Also inexpensive contactors are
available.
            Now add surplus contactors, motors, ect and do
most of the work yourself and you can get a good cost
effective EV for low bucks that beats the pants off ICE's in
purchase, running costs.
           The forklift motors live 50+yrs and easily take
the amps needed on 72vdc for reasonable performance and can
be had for a little more than scrap prices sometimes.
Rebuilding is easy, just replace the brushes, bearings and
clean up the commutator, reassemble and away you go.
            A major reason to build an EV is freedom from
expensive mechanics/dealers as much as possible and do my
own work. By building it so it's easy to work on, it takes
little time, money if anything goes wrong. I can repair the
CC in just a few minutes for very little money on the side
of the road for instance, a huge plus in my book.

>  
>Cost of parts  Approx. $5,500

         Doing my VW with similar weight will cost me about
$1500 or so but I use a contactor controller that uses
switches, ect to control the motor which will cost about
$100 in 5 surplus or forklift contactors. For E controller
the Altrax 7245 does well at about $650 including pedal.
You'll need at least 2 contactors anyway for the E
controller, 5-6 for the CC.

>Will hopefully save here by doing fabrications myself. I
>also have access to certain materials,( wire, terminals,
>etc) at little to no cost. So what I save here I will be
>willing to put in other areas if need be to obtain my range

        That's a good place to save if they are top flight
equipment. While I'm cheap you want to use the right parts
as EV is very heavy duty service. Only the best quality, not
necessarily the most expensive terminals, wire, lugs should
be used. Or you'll just have to replace them.
         One reason I like used Forklift motors is I can
afford much better motors, ect than I would buy new.


>
>
>Batteries  120 volt main pack:
>10 Trojan 5SHP  In '91 this was a high voltage pack!
>Any suggestions here. Anything better that will allow me to
>keep the 40+ range?  

          12 GC batts either Trojan, USbatt/Interstate or
East Penn/Deka. Or 750-100lbs of their other sizes rated for
EV's/traction use. You only need higher voltage if you want
to race. Otherwise it just adds cost, complications. The
AGM's can also die quickly which can be very costly if your
charging isn't great.

>
>Motor  Advanced DC 7 inch.  
>Thinking of a little bigger motor but again, up for
>suggestions.

          Anything 125+ amps and 70+ lbs should work. Around
here in Tampa mostly 9" up and 6.7", few in the 8" size but
they were hit by several EV builders that bought multiple
motors just before I got there. At one place another guy was
already there buying 5 9-13" motors for his, his friends who
were going to help each other build themselves EV's in
Zepherhills, Fla.

>
>Controler  Kodiak C600 by Aubern Scientific  200 volts max
>(96-175 nominal) ????  

           Logicsystems, Altrax others have new for less at
the voltages you need.


>
>Charger  K&W on board 110 volt A/C  
>Auxiliary Power  Sevcon - DC/DC converter with
>in-line motorcycle battery  M/C batery functions as voltage
>balast   Power Brakes  12 volt Auxiliary vacuum pump  

        Convert the brakes to manual or you'll come to hate
that compressor's noise.

                                Jerry Dycus

>
>The Original Web Page of the 87 Honda CRX EV:
>http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html
>http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html 
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://www.nabble.com/RE%3A-What-can-I-do-with-a-%243k-4k-budget--tp18535647p18535647.html
>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
>archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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Re: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

redrocket-2

Very interesting about the forklift motors.

I'm in Southern California. Where should I start looking for the motors? Can
you give me an idea of a fair price?

9"
8"
6.7"

Thanks for the info.

Marc


>          Anything 125+ amps and 70+ lbs should work. Around
> here in Tampa mostly 9" up and 6.7", few in the 8" size but
> they were hit by several EV builders that bought multiple
> motors just before I got there. At one place another guy was
> already there buying 5 9-13" motors for his, his friends who
> were going to help each other build themselves EV's in
> Zepherhills, Fla.
>
>>
>>Controler  Kodiak C600 by Aubern Scientific  200 volts max
>>(96-175 nominal) ????
>
>           Logicsystems, Altrax others have new for less at
> the voltages you need.
>
>
>>
>>Charger  K&W on board 110 volt A/C
>>Auxiliary Power  Sevcon - DC/DC converter with
>>in-line motorcycle battery  M/C batery functions as voltage
>>balast   Power Brakes  12 volt Auxiliary vacuum pump
>
>        Convert the brakes to manual or you'll come to hate
> that compressor's noise.
>
>                                Jerry Dycus
>
>>
>>The Original Web Page of the 87 Honda CRX EV:
>>http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html
>>http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html
>>
>>--
>>View this message in context:
>>http://www.nabble.com/RE%3A-What-can-I-do-with-a-%243k-4k-budget--tp18535647p18535647.html
>>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
>>archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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Re: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

Alan Brinkman
Marc,

What city are you in?  I am in Imperial.

Check out forklift dealers and businesses that repair lifts and dc
motors and controls.  Be careful not to buy something that needs a lot
of modification to work, such as a dc motor with an internal splined
shaft and no support bearing on the drive end.  Some lift motors and
golf cart motors rely on the differential or pump housing bearings and
shaft to support the armature of the motor.  Be wary of short 6.7"
motors unless you are building a small motorcycle.  Look for a motor
with open areas on the ends to let cooling air circulate, or maybe even
an internal fan on the shaft.  Find a shaft that you can find a coupler
to mate to your transmission.  Look for large brushes and leads, or 8
brushes instead of 4.  Take a look at Jim Husted's web site, he repairs
lifts and rebuilds DC motors in the state of Washington, and has done
work for many who race electric vehicles.
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/  He has a page or two of motors for
sale.  If you look at his site enough, you will see information on the
types of motors that you need to look for, and how much work they may or
may not need to be reliable daily drivers or beefed up for racing.

Enjoy!

Oh, you asked about a fair price?

Look at the range from brand new from an EV parts vendor, to some
oddball motors on E-bay that may not be suitable.  Maybe you could get a
used motor for several hundred, and send that to a repair shop for
several hundred in labor and parts and shipping.  The lowest cost may be
someone parting out a lift, with a good motor that you do not have to
modify.  I found a 6.7" short motor on E-bay for a motorcycle project
for about $100 plus shipping.  Look at  http://forkenswift.com/ well I
guess part of the site is down now, but if I remember correctly they
picked up a forklift cheap, and I think sold some of the parts to put
the project ahead money wise.  You might be able to purchase a used
motor for just above scrap prices.  A few months back there were a few
surplus motors available from a web site, but I could not find them now.

Have fun!

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of redrocket
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:47 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?


Very interesting about the forklift motors.

I'm in Southern California. Where should I start looking for the motors?
Can
you give me an idea of a fair price?

9"
8"
6.7"

Thanks for the info.

Marc


>          Anything 125+ amps and 70+ lbs should work. Around
> here in Tampa mostly 9" up and 6.7", few in the 8" size but
> they were hit by several EV builders that bought multiple
> motors just before I got there. At one place another guy was
> already there buying 5 9-13" motors for his, his friends who
> were going to help each other build themselves EV's in
> Zepherhills, Fla.
>
snip


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Re: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

joe-22
In reply to this post by leprican22

----- Original Message -----
From: "leprican22" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?


>
> I am using a 1990 Honda CRX. I found this page on an 87 CRX and the range,
> speed, and cost was well within my specs! I think i may be able to save
> some
> money by doing all of the fabrication myself. What do you think? Please
> keep
> in mind that I am new to the EV world any info I recieve is very
> appreciated!
>
> Curb Weight  Aprox. 2450 lbs. after conversion
> About the same as mine
>
> Cost of parts  Approx. $5,500
> Will hopefully save here by doing fabrications myself. I also have access
> to
> certain materials,( wire, terminals, etc) at little to no cost. So what I
> save here I will be willing to put in other areas if need be to obtain my
> range

Doable, maybe - keep in mind costs are continuing to go up. I did about this
same thing 8 years ago, but battery prices have doubled since then!

> Batteries  120 volt main pack:
> 10 Trojan 5SHP  In '91 this was a high voltage pack!
> Any suggestions here. Anything better that will allow me to keep the 40+
> range?
>
> Motor  Advanced DC 7 inch.
> Thinking of a little bigger motor but again, up for suggestions.

Depending on the vehicle, an 8" will probably do much better than a 7"
(actually 6.7").




> Controler  Kodiak C600 by Aubern Scientific  200 volts max (96-175
> nominal)


If you can find one - this is what I used, but they are no longer available,
unless you can find a used one somewhere! If you can't find a used one, a
Cursit will do.


> Charger  K&W on board 110 volt A/C

Basic dumb charger, again if you can find one.

> Auxiliary Power  Sevcon - DC/DC converter with
> in-line motorcycle battery  M/C batery functions as voltage balast
> Power Brakes  12 volt Auxiliary vacuum pump
>
> The Original Web Page of the 87 Honda CRX EV:
> http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html
> http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~rcy/ev/creltrc.html
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/RE%3A-What-can-I-do-with-a-%243k-4k-budget--tp18535647p18535647.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008
> 6:35 PM
>
>
>


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Re: What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?

redrocket-2
In reply to this post by Alan Brinkman
Hi!

I'm in San Diego.

Marc


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Brinkman" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?


> Marc,
>
> What city are you in?  I am in Imperial.
>
> Check out forklift dealers and businesses that repair lifts and dc
> motors and controls.  Be careful not to buy something that needs a lot
> of modification to work, such as a dc motor with an internal splined
> shaft and no support bearing on the drive end.  Some lift motors and
> golf cart motors rely on the differential or pump housing bearings and
> shaft to support the armature of the motor.  Be wary of short 6.7"
> motors unless you are building a small motorcycle.  Look for a motor
> with open areas on the ends to let cooling air circulate, or maybe even
> an internal fan on the shaft.  Find a shaft that you can find a coupler
> to mate to your transmission.  Look for large brushes and leads, or 8
> brushes instead of 4.  Take a look at Jim Husted's web site, he repairs
> lifts and rebuilds DC motors in the state of Washington, and has done
> work for many who race electric vehicles.
> http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/  He has a page or two of motors for
> sale.  If you look at his site enough, you will see information on the
> types of motors that you need to look for, and how much work they may or
> may not need to be reliable daily drivers or beefed up for racing.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Oh, you asked about a fair price?
>
> Look at the range from brand new from an EV parts vendor, to some
> oddball motors on E-bay that may not be suitable.  Maybe you could get a
> used motor for several hundred, and send that to a repair shop for
> several hundred in labor and parts and shipping.  The lowest cost may be
> someone parting out a lift, with a good motor that you do not have to
> modify.  I found a 6.7" short motor on E-bay for a motorcycle project
> for about $100 plus shipping.  Look at  http://forkenswift.com/ well I
> guess part of the site is down now, but if I remember correctly they
> picked up a forklift cheap, and I think sold some of the parts to put
> the project ahead money wise.  You might be able to purchase a used
> motor for just above scrap prices.  A few months back there were a few
> surplus motors available from a web site, but I could not find them now.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of redrocket
> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:47 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] What can I do with a $3k-4k budget?
>
>
> Very interesting about the forklift motors.
>
> I'm in Southern California. Where should I start looking for the motors?
> Can
> you give me an idea of a fair price?
>
> 9"
> 8"
> 6.7"
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> Marc
>
>
>>          Anything 125+ amps and 70+ lbs should work. Around
>> here in Tampa mostly 9" up and 6.7", few in the 8" size but
>> they were hit by several EV builders that bought multiple
>> motors just before I got there. At one place another guy was
>> already there buying 5 9-13" motors for his, his friends who
>> were going to help each other build themselves EV's in
>> Zepherhills, Fla.
>>
> snip
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev