Range fun

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
24 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Range fun

John Lussmyer
So, my GC pack is already loosing range after 1 year of relatively light
usage.  I think I'm down to 20 (or a bit more) miles range, instead of
the 30 it had when new. Most of my trips are either 1 mile, or 16 miles,
with an occaisional 20 mile. (That last one I'm now leary of doing.)
I'd LOVE to have more range and accelleration.
So, what are the current prices on a 200AH, 300v Lithium pack?

--
--
John G. Lussmyer  mailto:[hidden email]
Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com


_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

kevin lubot
I am not sure your power requirements but. I get 50 miles at 45 mpg on my saturn (2400 lbs) with 48 100ah cells (about 6000 us delivered with a 3 year warrenty.) Doubling that to 300v would give me 100 miles about. Are you sure you need 200ah cells? Would 400 battery amps (I only use 200 battery amps) be enough for you?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

John Lussmyer
On 6/25/2010 11:18 AM, kevin lubot wrote:
> I am not sure your power requirements but. I get 50 miles at 45 mpg on my
> saturn (2400 lbs) with 48 100ah cells (about 6000 us delivered with a 3 year
> warrenty.) Doubling that to 300v would give me 100 miles about. Are you sure
> you need 200ah cells? Would 400 battery amps (I only use 200 battery amps)
> be enough for you?
>    

This is for a F250, a bit over 5000 lbs with no batteries.  8000 lbs
with GC batts.
250v @ 250A (battery) gives me leisurely acceleration.  I'd like
something a bit better than that!
I cruise at 60mph, at about 260v @ 140A.

--
--
John G. Lussmyer  mailto:[hidden email]
Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com


_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
Hi John,
There is a large difference between the power you consume to cruise
and what I would expect from my experience, even though my S10 truck
was much smaller and lighter, it was touching 5000 lbs with batts and
driver and consumption only goes up marginally with weight.

I hear you on the leisurely acceleration, my truck had max 60kW and
this also resulted in marginal accel (I am an experienced driver so I
know how to maintain speed when possible) even so I could keep up with
traffic in most situations.
But I measured my consumption as about 55A at 55 MPH (312V) so your
consumption is about double that, while the S10 is not really efficient
even though it did have TigerPaws, supposed to be a LRR tire and I
pumped mine to 50 PSI.

Please check brake drag, tire alignment, anything that can add drag
and/or you notice getting warm means it wastes energy...

Success,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 1:17 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range fun

On 6/25/2010 11:18 AM, kevin lubot wrote:
> I am not sure your power requirements but. I get 50 miles at 45 mpg on

> my saturn (2400 lbs) with 48 100ah cells (about 6000 us delivered with

> a 3 year
> warrenty.) Doubling that to 300v would give me 100 miles about. Are
> you sure you need 200ah cells? Would 400 battery amps (I only use 200
> battery amps) be enough for you?
>    

This is for a F250, a bit over 5000 lbs with no batteries.  8000 lbs
with GC batts.
250v @ 250A (battery) gives me leisurely acceleration.  I'd like
something a bit better than that!
I cruise at 60mph, at about 260v @ 140A.

--
--
John G. Lussmyer  mailto:[hidden email]
Electric Vehicle Battery Monitoring Systems, http://www.CasaDelGato.com


_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Dave Hale
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
Sorry, what kind of battery is GC?

tnx,

--
Dave
http://evalbum.com/2500
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100625/d6a9caa3/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Cor van de Water
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
GolfCart
Flooded Lead Acid, relatively cheap and abundant available,
6A at about 260Ah but internal resistance is rather high,
so during acceleration they sag which means that it does
not help to increase current beyond a certain point, you are
just going to hurt the batteries.
I measured a Reva at max throttle sagging each battery to
about 4V at 420A so that is the limit as how far you want to
go, you are not getting much more than that 1680W from a GC
battery (at max you would probably get 600A at 3V = 1800W
but the battery is losing capacity at a *much* higher rate!)
(Reva is very light and carries only 8 GC batteries for a
48V system, still giving decent accel and range as a city vehicle)

There are many variants and versions of GC batteries, but
they typically perform more or less the same.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [hidden email]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [hidden email]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626        VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Dave Hale
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 1:57 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range fun

Sorry, what kind of battery is GC?

tnx,

--
Dave
http://evalbum.com/2500
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100625/d6a9caa3/a
ttachment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Stephen Chapman
In reply to this post by Dave Hale
GC = Golf Cart

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Dave Hale <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry, what kind of battery is GC?
>
> tnx,
>
> --
> Dave
> http://evalbum.com/2500
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100625/d6a9caa3/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100625/7112e9fe/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

robert winfield
any comments on using 12 T875 8v batteries in 2 strings of 48v for a 48v electric?



----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen Chapman <[hidden email]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 4:37:05 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range fun

GC = Golf Cart

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Dave Hale <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry, what kind of battery is GC?
>
> tnx,
>
> --
> Dave
> http://evalbum.com/2500
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100625/d6a9caa3/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100625/7112e9fe/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

kevin lubot
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
Ok thats a lot of wh per mile needed. I use about 225wh at the wall per mile with my conversion but its light, the roads are flat and I time the lights/traffic. Normal driving I would think its about 275-300 at the wall. So, for the cells and connecting hardware you would be at about 24K delivered to the usa for 300V at 200ah for Lifepo's. Id think however you would get more than 30 miles of range on that pack. Thats something like 1600wh per mile and a dod of 80% of the cells. Given the much lighter weight i would think you could cut it down to 160ah cells and still have over 30 miles range.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by robert winfield
On 25 Jun 2010 at 13:55, robert winfield wrote:

> any comments on using 12 T875 8v batteries in 2 strings of 48v for a 48v
> electric?

I'd be more apt to use one string of twelve 6-volt golf car batteries for 72
volts.  With proper design, performance and range will be about the same -
though with a given motor it'll probably have more zoom, if that's the right
word for such a setup.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" an "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

John Lussmyer
In reply to this post by kevin lubot
On 6/25/2010 5:09 PM, kevin lubot wrote:
> Ok thats a lot of wh per mile needed. I use about 225wh at the wall per mile
> with my conversion but its light, the roads are flat and I time the
> lights/traffic. Normal driving I would think its about 275-300 at the wall.
> So, for the cells and connecting hardware you would be at about 24K
> delivered to the usa for 300V at 200ah for Lifepo's. Id think however you
> would get more than 30 miles of range on that pack. Thats something like
> 1600wh per mile and a dod of 80% of the cells. Given the much lighter weight
> i would think you could cut it down to 160ah cells and still have over 30
> miles range.

Of course it's over 30 miles range.  I really do NEED more than 30
miles, but that's all I can get with Lead.
Also, there are the current requirements.
At 60mph, i cruise at around 260v and 140A.
I accelerate (anemically) at 250v at 250A.
I really need to be able to suck 500A from the pack for at least a
minute at a time, just to accelerate up long hills.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Cory Cross-2
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> So, my GC pack is already loosing range after 1 year of relatively light
You could strap it down. How loose is it? ;)

> usage.  I think I'm down to 20 (or a bit more) miles range, instead of
> the 30 it had when new. Most of my trips are either 1 mile, or 16 miles,
> with an occaisional 20 mile. (That last one I'm now leary of doing.)
Are you undercharging?

My Triumph has 50% more power during a drive when I just float it at the
gassing voltage (2.4V/cell) for a few hours before driving. I'm not
going to keep the lead for long so I don't care about any side effects,
plus I have those recombination caps so it doesn't even get very messy.

> So, what are the current prices on a 200AH, 300v Lithium pack?
About $23k + BMS


_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Evan Tuer
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:46 PM, John G. Lussmyer
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/25/2010 11:18 AM, kevin lubot wrote:
>> I am not sure your power requirements but. I get 50 miles at 45 mpg on my
>> saturn (2400 lbs) with 48 100ah cells (about 6000 us delivered with a 3 year
>> warrenty.) Doubling that to 300v would give me 100 miles about. Are you sure
>> you need 200ah cells? Would 400 battery amps (I only use 200 battery amps)
>> be enough for you?
>>
>
> This is for a F250, a bit over 5000 lbs with no batteries.  8000 lbs
> with GC batts.
> 250v @ 250A (battery) gives me leisurely acceleration.  I'd like
> something a bit better than that!
> I cruise at 60mph, at about 260v @ 140A.

Perhaps you only need a pickup truck to carry so many golf cart batteries!

If you take out the motor and controller and put them into a lighter,
more aerodynamic vehicle you will need far fewer cells and will have
better performance anyway.

I have a small car with 100 miles range at 55-60mph using 40 x 180AH
SE cells.  Takes exactly 1/3rd of the power that your truck does!

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

John Lussmyer
On 6/28/2010 3:51 AM, Evan Tuer wrote:
> Perhaps you only need a pickup truck to carry so many golf cart batteries!
> If you take out the motor and controller and put them into a lighter,
> more aerodynamic vehicle you will need far fewer cells and will have
> better performance anyway.
>
> I have a small car with 100 miles range at 55-60mph using 40 x 180AH
> SE cells.  Takes exactly 1/3rd of the power that your truck does!

And your car can carry 1000 to 1500 lbs of lumber and bricks as well?
Without overloading the suspension or brakes?  WOW!

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Evan Tuer
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:40 PM, John G. Lussmyer
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 6/28/2010 3:51 AM, Evan Tuer wrote:
>> Perhaps you only need a pickup truck to carry so many golf cart batteries!
>> If you take out the motor and controller and put them into a lighter,
>> more aerodynamic vehicle you will need far fewer cells and will have
>> better performance anyway.
>>
>> I have a small car with 100 miles range at 55-60mph using 40 x 180AH
>> SE cells.  Takes exactly 1/3rd of the power that your truck does!
>
> And your car can carry 1000 to 1500 lbs of lumber and bricks as well?
> Without overloading the suspension or brakes?  WOW!

I have a half-ton electric van as well which I use to carry loads like
that safely, when I'm doing building work at the weekends.  It has
half the range and efficiency.  I also have a big old Ford gas van
which gets used occasionally when I need to tow a trailer or carry
bulkier stuff like drywall.

But the majority of the mileage (will be around 15k this year) is done
in the small car, carrying only 1 or two people.

If you try to make one vehicle perform all possible tasks then you end
up driving a massively oversized, expensive to run vehicle the other
99% of the time when you aren't carrying lumber and bricks.  So I try
to use the right tool for the job - your situation may be different.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Dennis Miles
In reply to this post by Evan Tuer
Evan,
          you said,
<<Perhaps you only need a pickup truck to carry so many golf cart
batteries!>>
<<<If you take out the motor and controller and put them into a lighter,>>>
<<<more aerodynamic vehicle you will need far fewer cells and will have>>>
<<<better performance anyway>>>

If John wants to drive an F-250, in America, he may and he does not need
your permission. Just as you can chose to drive something smaller. !

<<<<I have a small car with 100 miles range at 55-60mph using 40 x 180AH>>>
<<<<SE cells.  Takes exactly 1/3rd of the power that your truck does! >>>

 In fact I won't object if you switch over to an electric bicycle and use
even less power.

And I do not expect or tolerate those who say I don't need a 3/4 ton Dodge
with 8L V-10 to pull my horse trailer, they need to tend to their personal
business and stay out of mine !

Dennis Miles   (Don't catch me after I argue with my family.)
===============================================================

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 6:51 AM, Evan Tuer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:46 PM, John G. Lussmyer
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 6/25/2010 11:18 AM, kevin lubot wrote:
> >> I am not sure your power requirements but. I get 50 miles at 45 mpg on
> my
> >> saturn (2400 lbs) with 48 100ah cells (about 6000 us delivered with a 3
> year
> >> warrenty.) Doubling that to 300v would give me 100 miles about. Are you
> sure
> >> you need 200ah cells? Would 400 battery amps (I only use 200 battery
> amps)
> >> be enough for you?
> >>
> >
> > This is for a F250, a bit over 5000 lbs with no batteries.  8000 lbs
> > with GC batts.
> > 250v @ 250A (battery) gives me leisurely acceleration.  I'd like
> > something a bit better than that!
> > I cruise at 60mph, at about 260v @ 140A.
>
>  If you take out the motor and controller and put them into a lighter,
> more aerodynamic vehicle you will need far fewer cells and will have
> better performance anyway.
>
> I have a small car with 100 miles range at 55-60mph using 40 x 180AH
> SE cells.  Takes exactly 1/3rd of the power that your truck does!
>
> _______________________________________________
> And how well does it fare moving 2700 lbs.(in 3 rolls) of hay 50 miles down
> the highway and 2,000 ft on muddy pasture to the herd of Equines? (We don't
> all work in an office.)
>
    That is why I am also looking into Compressed Natural Gas...


--
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100628/fe543f6b/attachment.html 
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Bohl2
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
Those CG batteries should last a lot longer then one year!

30% loss in range?

My guess is that the batteries are out of balance, take a hydrometer reading on the cells, they should be within 5% of each other, then check individual battery voltages, if they vary more then a few %, charge the low batteries separate, to bring them up to par. with the rest of the pack. then equalize charge the whole pack. You should get most of your driving distance back.

Steve
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

Faile
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
I decided to convert a mid-sized pickup (Dodge Dakota) because I wanted to
be able to haul stuff and also tow my boat to the lake for fishing.  I may
convert another vehicle next year and if I do then it will be a Porsche 944
since I have one of those vehicles with a blown motor.  I, personally, think
that you should convert what ever vehicle works best for you and what you
want to do with the vehicle.

Freddie

----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[hidden email]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Range fun


> On 6/28/2010 3:51 AM, Evan Tuer wrote:
>> Perhaps you only need a pickup truck to carry so many golf cart
>> batteries!
>> If you take out the motor and controller and put them into a lighter,
>> more aerodynamic vehicle you will need far fewer cells and will have
>> better performance anyway.
>>
>> I have a small car with 100 miles range at 55-60mph using 40 x 180AH
>> SE cells.  Takes exactly 1/3rd of the power that your truck does!
>
> And your car can carry 1000 to 1500 lbs of lumber and bricks as well?
> Without overloading the suspension or brakes?  WOW!
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

EVDL Administrator
In reply to this post by John Lussmyer
On 28 Jun 2010 at 8:40, John G. Lussmyer wrote:

> And your car can carry 1000 to 1500 lbs of lumber and bricks as well?
> Without overloading the suspension or brakes?  WOW!

IMO, Detroit makes pickup trucks that look much brawnier than they really
are - and that seems to be growing more true with the passing years.  They
are certainly much larger and heavier than they need to be to handle the
amount of cargo they're rated for.

In Asia you can buy one- and two-ton cab-over pickups that are smaller and
lighter than American pickups, but carry more.  

For example, the standard cab Kia K2700 truck has a 134" (3400mm)L x 65"
(1650mm)W x 15" (380mm)H bed (60 square feet open area, 75 cu ft volume).  
It weighs 1980kg (4350lb), and with a maximum GVW of 4005kg, it can carry
more than its own weight in payload (4450lb).  It has a 2.7 litre Diesel
engine producing 61kw (83hp) at 4150rpm.

Compare that with a 2008 Ford F250 regular cab pickup (the year for which I
could most readily find data).  The Ford has a curb weight of 5633lb and a
payload of 3150lb.  The bed is 98"L x 51"W x 20"H (35 square feet open area,
58 cu ft volume).  It has a 5.4 litre gasoline engine producing 300hp at
5000rpm.

I can't find any fuel efficiency figures, but you can probably deduce the
difference for yourself from the specifications above.  You can also see
which one would be more practical for an EV conversion using off the shelf
components.

The Kia weighs 23% less. but it can carry 41% more load by weight and 71%
more load by square area (25% more by volume).  Now, if Kia can do this, why
can't Detroit?  (Rhetorical question.)

Even the tiny Kei-class trucks in Japan weigh 1400-1800lb and usually have
550-660cc ICEs, but they can carry almost 900lb in their 4' x 6'
(approximately) beds.

Asian trucks usually have ample room below the beds for batteries, and IMO
would make outstanding EV conversions.

The problem is that they don't meet US FMVSS.   A few US dealers import Kei-
trucks used as ICEs, usually at huge profits, but they're strictly for off-
road use.  AFAIK, nobody imports the larger Asian pickups for any reason.  
Solectria brought over a few Kei-class pickups and converted them perhaps 10
years ago, but again they were for off-road use only.  

Pity, as these Asian pickups would make outstanding workhorse EVs in a range
of sizes and capacities, if we could only drive them on the road.  Maybe
someday.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" an "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Range fun

John Lussmyer
On 7/2/2010 6:18 PM, EVDL Administrator wrote:

> On 28 Jun 2010 at 8:40, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
>    
>> And your car can carry 1000 to 1500 lbs of lumber and bricks as well?
>> Without overloading the suspension or brakes?  WOW!
>>      
> IMO, Detroit makes pickup trucks that look much brawnier than they really
> are - and that seems to be growing more true with the passing years.  They
> are certainly much larger and heavier than they need to be to handle the
> amount of cargo they're rated for.
>
> In Asia you can buy one- and two-ton cab-over pickups that are smaller and
> lighter than American pickups, but carry more.
>
> For example, the standard cab Kia K2700 truck has a 134" (3400mm)L x 65"
> (1650mm)W x 15" (380mm)H bed (60 square feet open area, 75 cu ft volume).
> It weighs 1980kg (4350lb), and with a maximum GVW of 4005kg, it can carry
> more than its own weight in payload (4450lb).  It has a 2.7 litre Diesel
> engine producing 61kw (83hp) at 4150rpm.

Yup, and has a snowballs chance in hell of hauling my 6 ton trailer
along at 70mph.
Heck, I'd be surprised if it can REACH 70mph.
And we won't even talk about exhaust emissions.  Or Safety standards, or
even Comfort levels.
Admittedly, my EV can only haul my trailer for a short distance at lower
speeds as well, but it CAN do it.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [hidden email] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
12