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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

brucedp5


[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-td4686115.html
EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE frustrated
]

I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take an ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).

I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was just a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done differently.

I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint (using either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what public EVSE is available when compared to the free-to-use
https://www.plugshare.com

I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After adjusting the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 & highway 101 had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).

Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I would have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered (24kW). But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full power. I would want most of the trip to be on Hwy 99.

The EVSE were EVgo and plugshare showed that. The mother could have gotten an EVgo account before the trip. Clearly, she depended on Chargepoint to solve all her charging needs too heavily.

I used google maps
https://goo.gl/maps/se1HF6CZeEE2
to plan a route from San Jose east to Hwy 99, then south to a L3 EVSE in Visalia. Using the details on that map shows that Visalia is at the ~200 mile point. And Pasadena is another 200 miles. Meaning only one L3 charging would be needed to make the entire 400 mile trip, and only one L3 charge would be needed on the return trip.

My mostly Hwy 99 route goes south from San Jose, cuts over east on Hwy 152 to Hwy 99 going south. Hwy 99 merges with Hwy 5 at Bakersfield. Hwy 5 will take the Mom& teen south to Pasadena.

My route has the most full-power L3 charging to keep range angst to a minimum, and lets the couple only need one L3 quick charging stop.


My complaint with this story is that the story was worded to leave the EV-ignorant feeling EVs are not-ready for prime time.
If I drove a Bolt EV on that trip, my prep would have made for an easier time, with far fewer complaints
(because when it comes to EVs on long trips, I know what I am doing).




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.neocities.org}
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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At
least not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More
range might help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc:
Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

>
>
>[ref
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-td4686115.html
>EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>frustrated
>]
>
>I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take
>an
>ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>
>I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was
>just
>a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this
>EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done differently.
>
>I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint
>(using
>either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what public
>EVSE
>is available when compared to the free-to-use
>https://www.plugshare.com
>
>I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After
>adjusting
>the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 &
>highway 101
>had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).
>
>Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I
>would
>have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as
>possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered
>(24kW).
>But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full power. I would want most of the trip to
>be on
>Hwy 99.
>
>The EVSE were EVgo and plugshare showed that. The mother could have
>gotten
>an EVgo account before the trip. Clearly, she depended on Chargepoint
>to
>solve all her charging needs too heavily.
>
>I used google maps
>https://goo.gl/maps/se1HF6CZeEE2
>to plan a route from San Jose east to Hwy 99, then south to a L3 EVSE
>in
>Visalia. Using the details on that map shows that Visalia is at the
>~200
>mile point. And Pasadena is another 200 miles. Meaning only one L3
>charging
>would be needed to make the entire 400 mile trip, and only one L3
>charge
>would be needed on the return trip.
>
>My mostly Hwy 99 route goes south from San Jose, cuts over east on Hwy
>152
>to Hwy 99 going south. Hwy 99 merges with Hwy 5 at Bakersfield. Hwy 5
>will
>take the Mom& teen south to Pasadena.
>
>My route has the most full-power L3 charging to keep range angst to a
>minimum, and lets the couple only need one L3 quick charging stop.
>
>
>My complaint with this story is that the story was worded to leave the
>EV-ignorant feeling EVs are not-ready for prime time.
>If I drove a Bolt EV on that trip, my prep would have made for an
>easier
>time, with far fewer complaints
>(because when it comes to EVs on long trips, I know what I am doing).
>
>
>
>
>For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
>{brucedp.neocities.org}
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-800mi-Bolt-trip-San-Jose-LA-on-ccs-tp4686125.html
>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>Nabble.com.
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Drumroll....... door opens and in walks solid state li ion battery

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At least not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More range might help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
>>
>>
>> [ref
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-td4686115.html
>> EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>> frustrated
>> ]
>>
>> I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take an
>> ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>>
>> I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was just
>> a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this
>> EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done differently.
>>
>> I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint (using
>> either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what public EVSE
>> is available when compared to the free-to-use
>> https://www.plugshare.com
>>
>> I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After adjusting
>> the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 & highway 101
>> had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).
>>
>> Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I would
>> have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as
>> possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered (24kW).
>> But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full power. I would want most of the trip to be on
>> Hwy 99.
>>
>> The EVSE were EVgo and plugshare showed that. The mother could have gotten
>> an EVgo account before the trip. Clearly, she depended on Chargepoint to
>> solve all her charging needs too heavily.
>>
>> I used google maps
>> https://goo.gl/maps/se1HF6CZeEE2
>> to plan a route from San Jose east to Hwy 99, then south to a L3 EVSE in
>> Visalia. Using the details on that map shows that Visalia is at the ~200
>> mile point. And Pasadena is another 200 miles. Meaning only one L3 charging
>> would be needed to make the entire 400 mile trip, and only one L3 charge
>> would be needed on the return trip.
>>
>> My mostly Hwy 99 route goes south from San Jose, cuts over east on Hwy 152
>> to Hwy 99 going south. Hwy 99 merges with Hwy 5 at Bakersfield. Hwy 5 will
>> take the Mom& teen south to Pasadena.
>>
>> My route has the most full-power L3 charging to keep range angst to a
>> minimum, and lets the couple only need one L3 quick charging stop.
>>
>>
>> My complaint with this story is that the story was worded to leave the
>> EV-ignorant feeling EVs are not-ready for prime time.
>> If I drove a Bolt EV on that trip, my prep would have made for an easier
>> time, with far fewer complaints
>> (because when it comes to EVs on long trips, I know what I am doing).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> http://evdl.org/evln/
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-800mi-Bolt-trip-San-Jose-LA-on-ccs-tp4686125.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
If someone has a self-confessed lead foot and wants to do a 320 mile
one-way trip in a car that *can* do about 240 miles if driven carefully,
why does the owner and apparently experienced EV driver not come to the
simple realization that either she should not take the EV if she
*averages* 80 MPH which is insanity if you need to do long range in an
EV, or realize that the only way to make good time is to *slow down*,
since the trip would be trivial if she slows to 55 MPH and makes the
distance Gilroy - Bakersfield via the shortest route on I5 in one leg.
Granted, slowing down to 55 instead of averaging 80 over the distance
will bring that part of the trip time from 3 hours to just over 4 hours,
but the advantage of just a short top-up charge in Gilroy and only
needing a half charge in Bakerfield for the remaining 110 miles to
Pasadena means that there would be very little additional waiting time
for charging.

This reads almost like the classic tale of the hare and the turtle, the
latter winning the race due to his constant progress, while the first
wastes his time on trivial matters.

In this case, they would have needed almost 6 hours of driving a
constant 55 MPH plus probably twice half hour for charging and that is
seriously less than the time they now took in many charging sessions
while trying to average 80 MPH on the road...
It is helpful to look at the big picture, instead of focusing on the ICE
habit of driving as fast as possible and ending up wasting hours upon
hours in trying to refuel this wrong mindset.
Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV driving
mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
road trip.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
office +1 408 383 7626                    Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130                    private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
via EV
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 8:42 AM
To: brucedp5; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At
least not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More
range might help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.

Peri

------ Original Message ------
From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc:
Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

>
>
>[ref
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi
-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-
td4686115.html

>EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>frustrated
>]
>
>I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take
>an
>ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>
>I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was
>just
>a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this
>EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done differently.
>
>I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint
>(using
>either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what public

>EVSE
>is available when compared to the free-to-use
>https://www.plugshare.com
>
>I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After
>adjusting
>the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 &
>highway 101
>had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).
>
>Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I
>would
>have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as
>possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered
>(24kW).
>But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full power. I would want most of the trip to
>be on
>Hwy 99.
>
>The EVSE were EVgo and plugshare showed that. The mother could have
>gotten
>an EVgo account before the trip. Clearly, she depended on Chargepoint
>to
>solve all her charging needs too heavily.
>
>I used google maps
>https://goo.gl/maps/se1HF6CZeEE2
>to plan a route from San Jose east to Hwy 99, then south to a L3 EVSE
>in
>Visalia. Using the details on that map shows that Visalia is at the
>~200
>mile point. And Pasadena is another 200 miles. Meaning only one L3
>charging
>would be needed to make the entire 400 mile trip, and only one L3
>charge
>would be needed on the return trip.
>
>My mostly Hwy 99 route goes south from San Jose, cuts over east on Hwy
>152
>to Hwy 99 going south. Hwy 99 merges with Hwy 5 at Bakersfield. Hwy 5
>will
>take the Mom& teen south to Pasadena.
>
>My route has the most full-power L3 charging to keep range angst to a
>minimum, and lets the couple only need one L3 quick charging stop.
>
>
>My complaint with this story is that the story was worded to leave the
>EV-ignorant feeling EVs are not-ready for prime time.
>If I drove a Bolt EV on that trip, my prep would have made for an
>easier
>time, with far fewer complaints
>(because when it comes to EVs on long trips, I know what I am doing).
>
>
>
>
>For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
>{brucedp.neocities.org}
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-800mi-B
olt-trip-San-Jose-LA-on-ccs-tp4686125.html

>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>Nabble.com.
>_______________________________________________
>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
"Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV driving
mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
road trip.

There are as well, a decent sized group of people who will not be
happy under any circumstance, or at least will naturally gravitate to
a critical stance. The idea of deferred rather than instant
gratification eludes a portion of humanity and that is not really
changeable.

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> If someone has a self-confessed lead foot and wants to do a 320 mile
> one-way trip in a car that *can* do about 240 miles if driven carefully,
> why does the owner and apparently experienced EV driver not come to the
> simple realization that either she should not take the EV if she
> *averages* 80 MPH which is insanity if you need to do long range in an
> EV, or realize that the only way to make good time is to *slow down*,
> since the trip would be trivial if she slows to 55 MPH and makes the
> distance Gilroy - Bakersfield via the shortest route on I5 in one leg.
> Granted, slowing down to 55 instead of averaging 80 over the distance
> will bring that part of the trip time from 3 hours to just over 4 hours,
> but the advantage of just a short top-up charge in Gilroy and only
> needing a half charge in Bakerfield for the remaining 110 miles to
> Pasadena means that there would be very little additional waiting time
> for charging.
>
> This reads almost like the classic tale of the hare and the turtle, the
> latter winning the race due to his constant progress, while the first
> wastes his time on trivial matters.
>
> In this case, they would have needed almost 6 hours of driving a
> constant 55 MPH plus probably twice half hour for charging and that is
> seriously less than the time they now took in many charging sessions
> while trying to average 80 MPH on the road...
> It is helpful to look at the big picture, instead of focusing on the ICE
> habit of driving as fast as possible and ending up wasting hours upon
> hours in trying to refuel this wrong mindset.
> Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV driving
> mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
> all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
> road trip.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626                    Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130                    private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
> via EV
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 8:42 AM
> To: brucedp5; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
> I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At
> least not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More
> range might help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
>>
>>
>>[ref
>>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi
> -Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-
> td4686115.html
>>EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>>frustrated
>>]
>>
>>I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take
>>an
>>ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>>
>>I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was
>>just
>>a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this
>>EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done differently.
>>
>>I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint
>>(using
>>either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what public
>
>>EVSE
>>is available when compared to the free-to-use
>>https://www.plugshare.com
>>
>>I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After
>>adjusting
>>the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 &
>>highway 101
>>had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).
>>
>>Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I
>>would
>>have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as
>>possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered
>>(24kW).
>>But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full power. I would want most of the trip to
>>be on
>>Hwy 99.
>>
>>The EVSE were EVgo and plugshare showed that. The mother could have
>>gotten
>>an EVgo account before the trip. Clearly, she depended on Chargepoint
>>to
>>solve all her charging needs too heavily.
>>
>>I used google maps
>>https://goo.gl/maps/se1HF6CZeEE2
>>to plan a route from San Jose east to Hwy 99, then south to a L3 EVSE
>>in
>>Visalia. Using the details on that map shows that Visalia is at the
>>~200
>>mile point. And Pasadena is another 200 miles. Meaning only one L3
>>charging
>>would be needed to make the entire 400 mile trip, and only one L3
>>charge
>>would be needed on the return trip.
>>
>>My mostly Hwy 99 route goes south from San Jose, cuts over east on Hwy
>>152
>>to Hwy 99 going south. Hwy 99 merges with Hwy 5 at Bakersfield. Hwy 5
>>will
>>take the Mom& teen south to Pasadena.
>>
>>My route has the most full-power L3 charging to keep range angst to a
>>minimum, and lets the couple only need one L3 quick charging stop.
>>
>>
>>My complaint with this story is that the story was worded to leave the
>>EV-ignorant feeling EVs are not-ready for prime time.
>>If I drove a Bolt EV on that trip, my prep would have made for an
>>easier
>>time, with far fewer complaints
>>(because when it comes to EVs on long trips, I know what I am doing).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>http://evdl.org/evln/
>>
>>
>>{brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>>--
>>View this message in context:
>>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-800mi-B
> olt-trip-San-Jose-LA-on-ccs-tp4686125.html
>>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>>Nabble.com.
>>_______________________________________________
>>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
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A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
Warren Buffet

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 Mobile and Google Phone

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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Hi Michael,
But now we are talking about complaining about self-inflicted wounds...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Ross [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 12:46 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

"Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV
driving
mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
road trip.

There are as well, a decent sized group of people who will not be
happy under any circumstance, or at least will naturally gravitate to
a critical stance. The idea of deferred rather than instant
gratification eludes a portion of humanity and that is not really
changeable.

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> If someone has a self-confessed lead foot and wants to do a 320 mile
> one-way trip in a car that *can* do about 240 miles if driven
carefully,
> why does the owner and apparently experienced EV driver not come to
the
> simple realization that either she should not take the EV if she
> *averages* 80 MPH which is insanity if you need to do long range in an
> EV, or realize that the only way to make good time is to *slow down*,
> since the trip would be trivial if she slows to 55 MPH and makes the
> distance Gilroy - Bakersfield via the shortest route on I5 in one leg.
> Granted, slowing down to 55 instead of averaging 80 over the distance
> will bring that part of the trip time from 3 hours to just over 4
hours,
> but the advantage of just a short top-up charge in Gilroy and only
> needing a half charge in Bakerfield for the remaining 110 miles to
> Pasadena means that there would be very little additional waiting time
> for charging.
>
> This reads almost like the classic tale of the hare and the turtle,
the
> latter winning the race due to his constant progress, while the first
> wastes his time on trivial matters.
>
> In this case, they would have needed almost 6 hours of driving a
> constant 55 MPH plus probably twice half hour for charging and that is
> seriously less than the time they now took in many charging sessions
> while trying to average 80 MPH on the road...
> It is helpful to look at the big picture, instead of focusing on the
ICE
> habit of driving as fast as possible and ending up wasting hours upon
> hours in trying to refuel this wrong mindset.
> Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV
driving

> mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
> all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
> road trip.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626                    Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130                    private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you
received

> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EV [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
> via EV
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 8:42 AM
> To: brucedp5; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
> I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At
> least not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More
> range might help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc:
> Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
>>
>>
>>[ref
>>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800m
i
>
-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-

> td4686115.html
>>EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>>frustrated
>>]
>>
>>I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take
>>an
>>ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>>
>>I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was
>>just
>>a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this
>>EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done
differently.
>>
>>I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint
>>(using
>>either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what
public

>
>>EVSE
>>is available when compared to the free-to-use
>>https://www.plugshare.com
>>
>>I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After
>>adjusting
>>the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 &
>>highway 101
>>had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).
>>
>>Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I
>>would
>>have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as
>>possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered
>>(24kW).
>>But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full power. I would want most of the trip to
>>be on
>>Hwy 99.
>>
>>The EVSE were EVgo and plugshare showed that. The mother could have
>>gotten
>>an EVgo account before the trip. Clearly, she depended on Chargepoint
>>to
>>solve all her charging needs too heavily.
>>
>>I used google maps
>>https://goo.gl/maps/se1HF6CZeEE2
>>to plan a route from San Jose east to Hwy 99, then south to a L3 EVSE
>>in
>>Visalia. Using the details on that map shows that Visalia is at the
>>~200
>>mile point. And Pasadena is another 200 miles. Meaning only one L3
>>charging
>>would be needed to make the entire 400 mile trip, and only one L3
>>charge
>>would be needed on the return trip.
>>
>>My mostly Hwy 99 route goes south from San Jose, cuts over east on Hwy
>>152
>>to Hwy 99 going south. Hwy 99 merges with Hwy 5 at Bakersfield. Hwy 5
>>will
>>take the Mom& teen south to Pasadena.
>>
>>My route has the most full-power L3 charging to keep range angst to a
>>minimum, and lets the couple only need one L3 quick charging stop.
>>
>>
>>My complaint with this story is that the story was worded to leave the
>>EV-ignorant feeling EVs are not-ready for prime time.
>>If I drove a Bolt EV on that trip, my prep would have made for an
>>easier
>>time, with far fewer complaints
>>(because when it comes to EVs on long trips, I know what I am doing).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>http://evdl.org/evln/
>>
>>
>>{brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>>--
>>View this message in context:
>>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-800mi-
B

> olt-trip-San-Jose-LA-on-ccs-tp4686125.html
>>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>>Nabble.com.
>>_______________________________________________
>>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>



--
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
Warren Buffet

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 Mobile and Google Phone

[hidden email]
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UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by brucedp5
This author complains about a lot of niggling little issues with the car,
but if you discard all the literary indignation, there's really only one
usable fact in the article: There aren't yet as many places to charge an EV
as there are ICEV filling stations.  

When you know this, doing an 800 mile trip in a 185 mile range (as predicted
by the car's own guessometer) EV is kind of like setting out across the
Nevada desert in an ICEV with 2 gallons of fuel.  

Actually, I take it back.  There's one other fact here that's worth knowing.
"After 103 miles, we showed only 70 miles of remaining range."  This means
that the Bolt's real-world range prediction based on her previous driving
was accurate within 6%. That's pretty good for a guessometer.  The author
doesn't say it, since it doesn't fit with her relentless negativity, so I
will: kudos to GM's (Daewoo's) Korean designers for that.

The general public eat up stuff that bashes anything new and different.  The
vast majority of vehicle owners avoid real innovation -- including EVs --
and they love being told that that's the "right" choice.  If you're an
author looking for a nice fee, or a website looking for advertising page
views, a crybaby whine-fest like this is just the ticket.

That is all.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

brucedp5
This post was updated on .
As I previously stated, (and especially the last sentences of the news item), it leaves the reader to think anything to do with EVs is lacking.

Both Cor and David rightly said something like: EV driver should embrace the EV way of driving (calm, less insanity to race to the next red light, sticking with a steady speed at the speed limit, etc.).

As many know, I read many many news items multiple times at day to find the ones that I post. Of those mentioning the Bolt EV, are quite positive. As I stated before, what they complain about is expecting a $38k vehicle have a less spartan/plasticky feel to it (it is a $15k ice turned EV, it is going to be like a cheap $15k ice). See,
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Bolt-EV-experience-tp4685003.html

But the next wave of EV drivers that buy the Bolt have already drank GM dealership's sales-rep Kool-Aid who are going to mis-state that the Bolt is like an ice. Then, with new Bolt drivers having been told that, we are going to see more of these types of news items where people haven't embraced the EV way of enjoying life.
IMO, even if an EV had a 1000 mile range, there needs to be a change in the former ice-driver's driving style (less wasteful, calmer, ... more enjoyable).

In an item I will post later from automobilemag.com mentions the Bolt is like a ice ...

2017 AUTOMOBILE All-Stars: The Winners ...
Our consensus was represented in phrases such as, “drives like a real car,” or, “I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend a Bolt as a daily driver to many people I know.” A clear statement of why was summed up with, “The Bolt can be used like a normal gasoline-powered vehicle.” ...


So, between GM dealership reps seeking a quick sale (saying falsehoods for fun& profit), media outlet items like
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-td4686115.html
 saying similar generalizations, and comments from other Bolt EV owners in public (word of mouth) using the wrong wording when bragging about their new EV ...
 the plugin community is going have EV drivers that still have ice-driving habits ...
 ::sad::




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.neocities.org}
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid
"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is an idiom commonly used in the United States that refers to any person or group who knowingly goes along with a doomed or ...
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Re: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In addition to a proportion of people always taking a negative,
critical (regardless of justification) view, there is meme in retail
that an unhappy customer will tell 7 people, and a happy one only one.
It all adds up to natural barriers (nothing special about EVs here) to
new stuff catching on.  This is one area where Musk does seem to have
a certain genius as a marketeer. No one imagined that Tesla would be
supply constrained for all production, for years. GM could probably
have done a better job marketing, and the dealers?...well they are car
dealers, 'nuff said.

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 10:16 AM, brucedp5 via EV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As I previously stated, (and especially the last sentences of the news item),
> it leaves the reader to think anything to do with EVs is lacking.
>
> Both Cor and David rightly said something like: EV driver should embrace the
> EV way of driving (clam, less insanity to race to the next red light,
> sticking with a steady speed at the speed limit, etc.).
>
> As many know, I read many many news items multiple times at day to find the
> ones that I post. Of those mentioning the Bolt EV, are quite positive. As I
> stated before, what they complain about is expecting a $38k vehicle have a
> less spartan/plasticky feel to it (it is a $15k ice turned EV, it is going
> to be like a cheap $15k ice). See,
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Bolt-EV-experience-tp4685003.html
>
> But the next wave of EV drivers that buy the Bolt have already drank GM
> dealership's sales-rep koolaid who are going to mis-state that the Bolt is
> like an ice. Then, with new Bolt drivers having been told that, we are going
> to see more of these types of news items where people haven't embraced the
> EV way of enjoying life.
> IMO, even if an EV had a 1000 mile range, there needs to be a change in the
> former ice-driver's driving style (less wasteful, clamer, ... more
> enjoyable).
>
> In an item I will post later from automobilemag.com mentions the Bolt is
> like a ice ...
>
> 2017 AUTOMOBILE All-Stars: The Winners ...
> Our consensus was represented in phrases such as, “drives like a real car,”
> or, “I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend a Bolt as a daily driver to many
> people I know.” A clear statement of why was summed up with, “The Bolt can
> be used like a normal gasoline-powered vehicle.” ...
>
>
> So, between GM dealership reps seeking a quick sale (saying falsehoods for
> fun& profit), media outlet items like
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-td4686115.html
>  saying similar generalizations, and comments from other Bolt EV owners in
> public (word of mouth) using the wrong wording when bragging about their new
> EV ...
>  the plugin community is going have lots of EV drivers that still have
> ice-driving habits ...
>  ::sad::
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-800mi-Bolt-trip-San-Jose-LA-on-ccs-tp4686125p4686150.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>



--
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
Warren Buffet

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 Mobile and Google Phone

[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
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Forbes sez go pih instead: 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

brucedp5
In reply to this post by brucedp5
Forbes uses the original news item in an anti-EV way, and ends stating use a pih/phev instead, see

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2017/03/12/chevy-bolt-ev-long-distance-troubles-on-an-800-mile-road-trip-report/





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