Re: Availability of public chargers

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
5 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Availability of public chargers

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
For all those reasons, Lee mentioned, light weight solar vehicles make sense. If a bunch of students can manufacturer a vehicle that seats 4 with a trunk that can do 400 miles a day that is what GM should be building. Lawrence Rhodes
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20190505/927c7bd1/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Availability of public chargers

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 5 May 2019 at 20:36, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> If a bunch of students can manufacturer a vehicle that seats 4 with a trunk
> that can do 400 miles a day that is what GM should be building.

Nope.  Sorry.  GM is a mass market manufacturer.  That's a technical marvel,
not a mass appeal vehicle.  GM will never find a business case in a vehicle
like that.  They wouln't find it even if there were one, and I doubt that
there is.  

And if they did, their stockholders would have their CEO out on the street
the following week.  That's the way the market works.  It selects for more
of what made money last year and the decade before that.

I don't expect to ever see a vehicle like the Stella Lux mass-produced in
the US, and probably not anywhere in the world.  I suggest that you get
started building your own.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Availability of public chargers

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> For all those reasons, Lee mentioned, light weight solar vehicles make sense. If a bunch of students can manufacturer a vehicle that seats 4 with a trunk that can do 400 miles a day that is what GM should be building. Lawrence Rhodes

Ah, but what you and I want is not what the big auto companies want.
They want vehicles with as high a profit margin as possible, where they
have total control over parts and service.

They have become giants. And giants need a lot of food to survive.
"Food" in their case is money. The nature of Wall Street demands that
they grow; or die. So they will do *anything* to get it to survive!

--
Fools ignore complexity. Pragmatists suffer it. The wise avoid it.
Geniuses remove it. -- Alan Perlis, "Epigrams on Programming"
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Availability of public chargers

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
In reply to this post by Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

> On 5 May 2019 at 20:36, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>
>> If a bunch of students can manufacturer a vehicle that seats 4 with a trunk
>> that can do 400 miles a day that is what GM should be building.
>
> Nope.  Sorry.  GM is a mass market manufacturer.  That's a technical marvel,
> not a mass appeal vehicle.  GM will never find a business case in a vehicle
> like that.  They wouln't find it even if there were one, and I doubt that
> there is.
>
> And if they did, their stockholders would have their CEO out on the street
> the following week.  That's the way the market works.  It selects for more
> of what made money last year and the decade before that.
>
> I don't expect to ever see a vehicle like the Stella Lux mass-produced in
> the US, and probably not anywhere in the world.  I suggest that you get
> started building your own.

I don't think the situation is hopeless or impossible. But it is
certainly difficult.

It's the Innovator's Dilemma. How do you sell a disruptive new product
in a market already controlled by entrenched competitors? Answer? You
can't. You have to find, or create a new market, and fly under their
"rader" until you can get big enough to compete. Like Apple vs. IBM, or
Amazon vs. Sears.

--
Fools ignore complexity. Pragmatists suffer it. The wise avoid it.
Geniuses remove it. -- Alan Perlis, "Epigrams on Programming"
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Availability of public chargers

Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
On 5 May 2019 at 17:04, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> I don't think the situation is hopeless or impossible. But it is
> certainly difficult.
>
> It's the Innovator's Dilemma. How do you sell a disruptive new product
> in a market already controlled by entrenched competitors? Answer? You
> can't. You have to find, or create a new market, and fly under their
> "rader" until you can get big enough to compete. Like Apple vs. IBM, or
> Amazon vs. Sears.

The problem is that most products that claim to be "disruptive" aren't.
(Hello, Juicero!)  "Disruptive" has become just another advertising
buzzword, as bogus as any of them, except that it seems to be more useful in
advertising to investors than to consumers.

IMO the main thing (besides lousy battery management) that held up EVs for
decades is that very few vehicle buyers cared about the problems they
solved.  The vast majority of auto buyers don't give a honking hoot about
their vehicles' emissions.  

In solving problems that vehicle buyers didn't care about, EV makers created
problems that vehicle buyers DID care about -- range less than a tank of
gas's, charging time longer than refueling an ICEV, and high purchase price.

(Also, until relatively recently, BIG battery headaches.  It used to be that
just about every used-EV-for-sale ad said "needs new batteries.")

The nations where EVs have had some success have passed laws to create
problems that EVs could solve.  Some examples of these are carpool lane
access, city congestion charges and exclusion days, high taxes on gasoline
and Diesel fuel, and high purchase and ownership taxes on ICEVs.  

They also paid people to buy EVs with direct and indirect subsidies.  

Wonder of wonders, just as EV proponents predicted 30 years ago, when
actually carried out aggressively and consistently, legislative EV promotion
worked.  (See: Norway.)

BTW, don't misunderstand me: I'm not opposed to those incentives!

All that said, I can think of one EV manufacturer that's chosen to deal with
a few issues that DO somewhat matter to vehicle buyers, issues not
engendered by legislation.  Those issues include showroom purchase
experience, service department experience, and vehicle obsolescence.  They
may have tackled a few others that I don't know about because I'm not
personallly involved with the company or their cars.  

To solve those problems, they're approaching the business of selling and
maintaining vehicles in ways that automakers just don't do -- or at least
mostly didn't, until now.  

Now that, to me, is disruption.  YMMV.

It's Tesla, and what I think is interesting is that they could probably have
been equally disruptive building ICEVs.  In fact, they'd probably be making
a healthy profit right now if they had.  I don't know about you, but I"m
glad that they disrupted Detroit's fat, torpid, it's-always-worked-this-way
slumber while making EVs.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)